- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
[X] Side Ops 6: Denuclearization 1
No more nukes...that's a goal worth fighting for!
No more nukes...that's a goal worth fighting for!
Metal Gear Solid V: Chronicles of Outer Heaven (MGS/Valkyria Chronicles)
- Thread starter konamikode
- Start date
- Sci-Fi Crossover Action Mature
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
Mostly because it seems to be a chain of actions that we want to start before we port. Paz is an option but Huey is still Very Hard.
[X] Side Ops 6: Denuclearization 1
DragoLord19D
I ate a TARDIS but I'm still hungry!
- Location
- Ma Treasure Hoard (I ain't tellin' where it's at!)
[X] PMC Ops 3: Kurdish Relief
technotemplar
(Sleeping Bear)
- Location
- Texas
[X] Side Ops 6: Denuclearization 1
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Well, she could wonder whose voice it is, Sorrow tells her (since of course the Sorrow would know his own sons voice) and then she goes "Oh shit, that's Revolver fucking Ocelot, and he's here asking me to wake up?!" Because you're right, she'd definitely know who he is despite not knowing his voice.
Zeroth Jupi
Sporadic Writer and Haver of Ideas
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
[X] Side Ops 6: Denuclearization 1
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
I just...I dunno man. If I had know this from the start it would have been Miller and Snake alone. I spent two days on this and it just....god damn it.
Doublethink by Dr. Snark (2 Coupon points for good interaction)
Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
- Location
- Right where I want to be
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
I came up with another omake idea that's a sequel to my first one, I can stop whenever I want no really but it turns out I've really wanted to write Metal Gear
Doublethink
2 + 2 = ?
"...Are you being serious?" Miller grumbled, looking at the laughably easy question on the whiteboard in front of him before turning to face a smirking Ocelot. "You said that you wanted to tell me something about Paz's condition after I submitted that report-"
"We'll get there, but first I need you to answer the question," Ocelot said, surprisingly managing to not sound patronizing.
Miller scoffed. "Fine. Two plus two equals four."
"Wrong."
Miller tilted his head as Ocelot erased the question mark and wrote in five.
2 + 2 = 5
"...What are you getting at?" Miller muttered. Ocelot was many things, but being outright patronizing wasn't usually one of them. "We both know that's objectively wrong."
"I'm not sure I get what you're saying Miller," Ocelot replied. "Two plus two has always equaled five. Just ask any of the other recruits around here and they'll agree with me."
Miller stared at Ocelot, scrutinizing him intensely for any sign of mirth or amusement...but he found none. What was he doing...?
"You can't seriously believe that. If two plus two equals five, then mathematics itself would be rendered useless."
"That's right," Ocelot flatly replied as though it were an obvious truth. Miller raised an eyebrow slightly as he processed what Ocelot was telling him.
"...So you're telling me that you believe that 'two plus two equals four' and 'two plus two equals five' at the same time?"
"Now you're starting to get it," Ocelot replied, writing down the "correct" equation below the "incorrect" one.
2 + 2 = 5
2 + 2 = 4
"Intentional cognitive dissonance," Miller said to himself.
"Of a sort. This kind of mental conditioning has a nickname of its own: 'doublethink,'" Ocelot began to explain. "The term came from George Orwell's novel 1984, where the ruling Party would condition the people it ruled over into believing in two contradictory ideas with equal fervor. Namely that 'democracy is evil' and that 'The Party is a bastion of democracy.'"
"And because people believe in both ideas so strongly they have no reason to question the contradiction itself."
"Exactly," Ocelot replied, erasing the bottom equation and rewriting the top one.
2 + 2 = 4 & 5
"I don't see what this has to do with Paz though," Miller said to Ocelot. "You're implying that she's using doublethink, but that would mean that she's intentionally deceiving us, and every psychologist on Mother Base-"
"Would tell you that she's telling the truth about her amnesia," Ocelot interrupted. "That she can't remember any of her time as 'Pacifica Ocean.' Well, I can tell you right now that they're not wrong...but they're not entirely right either."
Miller nodded, starting to see where Ocelot was going with this. "You're saying that she's using doublethink on a subconscious level."
"That I am."
Miller was fully prepared to believe Ocelot in that regard; if anyone in Diamond Dogs knew what they were talking about when it came to deception and false information, it was him. But there was something missing from this...
"Assuming that is true, what would those contradictory ideas be?" Miller asked. "If she can't remember her time as a Cipher agent, how can she use doublethink to convince herself otherwise? There's no other truth for her to remember."
"And that's the interesting part, isn't it?" Ocelot said as he began to pace around. "You would think that there is no way for her to be able to use doublethink for herself if there aren't two truths for her to actively believe in."
"So what makes you think that she's doing it?"
"Some records from the first Mother Base. I would hope you would be familiar with the cassette diary she kept?"
Miller nodded, before his eyes started to widen as an idea came to him. "The one thing I remember from them is how she started to doubt at the end - if she hadn't gotten the call from Cipher to hijack ZEKE, she might have just turned of her own volition and none of us would have been any the wiser about her original allegiance. You think that she's unconsciously suppressing her memories so that she can stay 'Paz Ortega Andrade'-"
"And make sure that 'Pacifica Ocean' died during the attack on the first Mother Base," Ocelot finished. "Pacifica Ocean is dead. Two plus two equals five. But Paz Ortega Andrade is alive. Two plus two equals four."
"Alright...so what does that mean for the future?"
"What it means is that she will never fully recover unless she's able to realize she's using doublethink like that," Ocelot replied. "Of course, the next question you might ask is: would she be better off like this?"
Miller frowned, having gone over that exact train of thought many times, especially in recent months. He felt the phantom pain from his arm start to intensify...
"...I'm not so sure," Miller replied after a moment of thought. "Even if she thinks she's forgotten, I'm certain that she still feels the 'phantom pain' of those missing memories."
Ocelot nodded in agreement. "While it is possible for the human mind to forget less important memories, it's designed to preserve ones that are particularly defining for a person, whether they're positive or negative. Even when people manage to repress particularly traumatic memories, the effects of those events still have a significant impact on their psyche. Think of someone like Eli for example; even if he somehow managed to suppress his memories of being a child soldier there would still be signs of it he would exhibit. An unusual amount of familiarity with firearms despite his age. Abnormally high reflexes from battlefield training. Paranoia as he unconsciously searches for enemies behind every corner. And if he had a superior officer of some kind, he would be unusually compliant when given any orders whatsoever."
"So what then?" Miller asked, growing frustrated at the idea that he couldn't really affect anything. "Going by everything you've told me the only way to heal Paz would be to force her to confront those contradictory ideas, but-"
"You're worried that her mind wouldn't be able to handle the strain."
"...You didn't see the state she was in after we brought her back from Camp Omega," Miller solemnly replied.
"Well, no matter what you or I think this isn't the kind of problem either of us can fix," Ocelot said as he began to erase the equation on the whiteboard with a nearby cloth. "The only hope that girl has for recovering is for the one man who made her want to switch sides to help her see the truth."
"The Boss."
"So if you want to see progress you need to talk to him," Ocelot said, not paying attention to Miller as he set down the now stained cloth and began to walk away. "If things work out, you might get to see one of Diamond Dogs' phantoms finally be put to rest."
AN: @konamikode Word count: 1138
I ended up taking cues from TPP's cassette tapes here, and I really like how that made things flow here. Also I'm not 100% sure if it's been confirmed Paz is amnesiac in this quest; I went off of the idea from the "conversations" in TPP where that was the case.
"...Are you being serious?" Miller grumbled, looking at the laughably easy question on the whiteboard in front of him before turning to face a smirking Ocelot. "You said that you wanted to tell me something about Paz's condition after I submitted that report-"
"We'll get there, but first I need you to answer the question," Ocelot said, surprisingly managing to not sound patronizing.
Miller scoffed. "Fine. Two plus two equals four."
"Wrong."
Miller tilted his head as Ocelot erased the question mark and wrote in five.
2 + 2 = 5
"...What are you getting at?" Miller muttered. Ocelot was many things, but being outright patronizing wasn't usually one of them. "We both know that's objectively wrong."
"I'm not sure I get what you're saying Miller," Ocelot replied. "Two plus two has always equaled five. Just ask any of the other recruits around here and they'll agree with me."
Miller stared at Ocelot, scrutinizing him intensely for any sign of mirth or amusement...but he found none. What was he doing...?
"You can't seriously believe that. If two plus two equals five, then mathematics itself would be rendered useless."
"That's right," Ocelot flatly replied as though it were an obvious truth. Miller raised an eyebrow slightly as he processed what Ocelot was telling him.
"...So you're telling me that you believe that 'two plus two equals four' and 'two plus two equals five' at the same time?"
"Now you're starting to get it," Ocelot replied, writing down the "correct" equation below the "incorrect" one.
2 + 2 = 5
2 + 2 = 4
"Intentional cognitive dissonance," Miller said to himself.
"Of a sort. This kind of mental conditioning has a nickname of its own: 'doublethink,'" Ocelot began to explain. "The term came from George Orwell's novel 1984, where the ruling Party would condition the people it ruled over into believing in two contradictory ideas with equal fervor. Namely that 'democracy is evil' and that 'The Party is a bastion of democracy.'"
"And because people believe in both ideas so strongly they have no reason to question the contradiction itself."
"Exactly," Ocelot replied, erasing the bottom equation and rewriting the top one.
2 + 2 = 4 & 5
"I don't see what this has to do with Paz though," Miller said to Ocelot. "You're implying that she's using doublethink, but that would mean that she's intentionally deceiving us, and every psychologist on Mother Base-"
"Would tell you that she's telling the truth about her amnesia," Ocelot interrupted. "That she can't remember any of her time as 'Pacifica Ocean.' Well, I can tell you right now that they're not wrong...but they're not entirely right either."
Miller nodded, starting to see where Ocelot was going with this. "You're saying that she's using doublethink on a subconscious level."
"That I am."
Miller was fully prepared to believe Ocelot in that regard; if anyone in Diamond Dogs knew what they were talking about when it came to deception and false information, it was him. But there was something missing from this...
"Assuming that is true, what would those contradictory ideas be?" Miller asked. "If she can't remember her time as a Cipher agent, how can she use doublethink to convince herself otherwise? There's no other truth for her to remember."
"And that's the interesting part, isn't it?" Ocelot said as he began to pace around. "You would think that there is no way for her to be able to use doublethink for herself if there aren't two truths for her to actively believe in."
"So what makes you think that she's doing it?"
"Some records from the first Mother Base. I would hope you would be familiar with the cassette diary she kept?"
Miller nodded, before his eyes started to widen as an idea came to him. "The one thing I remember from them is how she started to doubt at the end - if she hadn't gotten the call from Cipher to hijack ZEKE, she might have just turned of her own volition and none of us would have been any the wiser about her original allegiance. You think that she's unconsciously suppressing her memories so that she can stay 'Paz Ortega Andrade'-"
"And make sure that 'Pacifica Ocean' died during the attack on the first Mother Base," Ocelot finished. "Pacifica Ocean is dead. Two plus two equals five. But Paz Ortega Andrade is alive. Two plus two equals four."
"Alright...so what does that mean for the future?"
"What it means is that she will never fully recover unless she's able to realize she's using doublethink like that," Ocelot replied. "Of course, the next question you might ask is: would she be better off like this?"
Miller frowned, having gone over that exact train of thought many times, especially in recent months. He felt the phantom pain from his arm start to intensify...
"...I'm not so sure," Miller replied after a moment of thought. "Even if she thinks she's forgotten, I'm certain that she still feels the 'phantom pain' of those missing memories."
Ocelot nodded in agreement. "While it is possible for the human mind to forget less important memories, it's designed to preserve ones that are particularly defining for a person, whether they're positive or negative. Even when people manage to repress particularly traumatic memories, the effects of those events still have a significant impact on their psyche. Think of someone like Eli for example; even if he somehow managed to suppress his memories of being a child soldier there would still be signs of it he would exhibit. An unusual amount of familiarity with firearms despite his age. Abnormally high reflexes from battlefield training. Paranoia as he unconsciously searches for enemies behind every corner. And if he had a superior officer of some kind, he would be unusually compliant when given any orders whatsoever."
"So what then?" Miller asked, growing frustrated at the idea that he couldn't really affect anything. "Going by everything you've told me the only way to heal Paz would be to force her to confront those contradictory ideas, but-"
"You're worried that her mind wouldn't be able to handle the strain."
"...You didn't see the state she was in after we brought her back from Camp Omega," Miller solemnly replied.
"Well, no matter what you or I think this isn't the kind of problem either of us can fix," Ocelot said as he began to erase the equation on the whiteboard with a nearby cloth. "The only hope that girl has for recovering is for the one man who made her want to switch sides to help her see the truth."
"The Boss."
"So if you want to see progress you need to talk to him," Ocelot said, not paying attention to Miller as he set down the now stained cloth and began to walk away. "If things work out, you might get to see one of Diamond Dogs' phantoms finally be put to rest."
AN: @konamikode Word count: 1138
I ended up taking cues from TPP's cassette tapes here, and I really like how that made things flow here. Also I'm not 100% sure if it's been confirmed Paz is amnesiac in this quest; I went off of the idea from the "conversations" in TPP where that was the case.
Last edited:
Exterminatus
Tsukumogami User
- Location
- Southern California
[x] PMC Ops 3: Kurdish Relief
Er not really? Like the entire point of Outer Heaven in canon is to be a place free of the patriots control, and a home for soldiers where they can either choose to fight, or simply live out their days.
Furthermore the canonical Outer Heaven was more a combination of the Mercenary/Demon backstories whereas we selected the Hero that emphasizes the "Fuck the Patriots" aspect among other things, and proceeded to double down for maximum anti tyranny/oppression by adopting a training standard that makes it impossible for most soldiers in the world to find a home among the Diamond Dogs.
So I'd argue that the Outer Heaven Venom Snake believes in, and fights to reach isn't something tangible like a place, but rather a mentality that anyone regardless of their past can believe a desire for tomorrow to be better than today, which is why the governments of the world view him as such as a serious threat to the world order. Like one of the primary benefits of the Hero option is that Venom has views that resonate enough with the common man that if he says doing away with nukes will make a better world people will listen starting a movement, and the motivation behind the education action is to allow soldiers to be able to leave the life of a soldier with more than what they came into it with if they wish to do so.
Oh, and keep in mind there are apparently factions within the DD per our QM's comments on recruitment standards, which almost certainly extend to what they consider Outer Heaven. This is a good thing as it allows the players to have character interaction in interesting ways via their differences of opinions on the matter, which makes me wonder if the lines will be drawn along MSF veterans vs DD newcomers, or in other ways. Perhaps the training standards were different?
konamikode
Cooking Harder
Good stuff, good stuff, coupon point and another matrix dodge :3
Have 3 coupon points and Paz's action goes down to 'Easy'
Aaaaaagh, why am I drinking and listening to sad songs?
I really like the interaction between Miller and Ocelot. This is worth 2 coupon points for accurate characterization and in game their understanding of one another increases by a point.
I liked that this introspection of Snake's took in a lot of the thread's thoughts on the reasons why the characters in MB did things. Difficulty with the Huey action decreases to 'Hard'.
Edit: This was also worth a coupon point :3
=====
There's a couple more to go through, might actually get that second coupon. Gimme another 30ish for final word on that.
Also link me omakes that I haven't threadmarked please, I think I missed one or two in the last 5-6 pages?
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tapkomet
Senātus Populusque Rōmānus
- Location
- Ukraine
How exactly does denuclearization benefit us in any capacity whatsoever? There is such thing as not using them if we don't want to, you know. Unless the upkeep is horrific, I guess?
People say "nukes are bad" for... no good reason i can think of.
[x] PMC Ops 3: Kurdish Relief
People say "nukes are bad" for... no good reason i can think of.
[x] PMC Ops 3: Kurdish Relief
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
Thank you so much!! Glad you liked it!Good stuff, good stuff, coupon point and another matrix dodge :3
Have 3 coupon points and Paz's action goes down to 'Easy'
Aaaaaagh, why am I drinking and listening to sad songs?
I really like the interaction between Miller and Ocelot. This is worth 2 coupon points for accurate characterization and in game their understanding of one another increases by a point.
I liked that this introspection of Snake's took in a lot of the thread's thoughts on the reasons why the characters in MB did things. Difficulty with the Huey action decreases to 'Hard'.
Edit: This was also worth a coupon point :3
=====
There's a couple more to go through, might actually get that second coupon. Gimme another 30ish for final word on that.
Also link me omakes that I haven't threadmarked please, I think I missed one or two in the last 5-6 pages?
Kanata.EXE
Programmer
- Location
- Indonesia
[X] Side Ops 6: Denuclearization 1
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
Because it seems to be part of a chain, the message it sends across the world for Hero! Big Boss to denuclearize, it prevents Eli or Huey from doing something stupid with it, prevents us from dragging a already made nuke into a world that has no idea they exist, and it lets us get started on 'something bigger'.
@konamikode could you give us more details on what the Denuclearize Op means/does/represents?