@Cetashwayo Would it be appropriate for me to steal Plato's thunder and write a play about the Lost City of Atlantis?

EDIT: I am not going to steal the whole story, but I am going to put a spin on it inspired by some of our earliest works of science fiction.
 
The fact that our most important vassal may be on fire is worrying to say the least. Hopefully we can deal with it as a normal vote, but I fear we might end up having to spend an election action on it.
 
Also while i'm sure some of their worries are genuine I can't help but read a tone of "don't join Rhegions empire, join ours instead" into Krotones call for an Italiote league. The only other major Italiote power right now is Thurii and given their shaky relationship with Krotone I doubt they would be included in any hypothetical league. Thus Krotone would be the only major player in this hypothetical league and would be able to exert undue influence over it (granted any diplomatically formed league would have to treat the minors somewhat decently).
 
Also while i'm sure some of their worries are genuine I can't help but read a tone of "don't join Rhegions empire, join ours instead" into Krotones call for an Italiote league. The only other major Italiote power right now is Thurii and given their shaky relationship with Krotone I doubt they would be included in any hypothetical league. Thus Krotone would be the only major player in this hypothetical league and would be able to exert undue influence over it (granted any diplomatically formed league would have to treat the minors somewhat decently).
I mean, we have a very successful and fast growing league for them to copy. With an efficient bureaucracy and privileges for the member states.
 
Lokri Expiphyrii is an Italiote city aligned with Syrakousai and Sparta in decline which nevertheless remains a formidable power among its neighbors, able to count on 9,000 Adult Male Freemen and a fleet of 15 Triremes.
Rhegion occupies one of the most valuable trading locations in the Western Mediterranean at the straits of Messana and is a rapidly growing naval power. With 13,000 Adult Male Freemen, however, Rhegion has committed itself to being mostly a naval power in order to maintain its fleet of 25 Triremes.
Well, looks like Lokri is going even further into decline. What were the casualties of this war?
There are rumors of a new coalition emerging against the Spartans, formed out of Elis, Mantinaea, and Argos, once more emerging from its long quiet to take the stand against Laikadaimon.
Interesting. This happened historically as well (the Spartans beat them and the fight helped restore some of their reputation IIRC.) But from last turn...
Elsewhere in Hellas, the long-quiet Argives have formed an alliance with Korinthos.
I'm not sure if this happened historically. But it looks like Korinth might end up fighting their former allies. If so, good news for us, since it means they'll be distracted from the Adriatic.
 
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I always gets excited when this quest updates. Also I looked up Lokri Epixephyrii in Google Search for some OTL info about it and this quest is the first result for that and in image search, images from this quest and the previous quests are the only results.
 
@Cetashwayo Would it be appropriate for me to create some other story, like a city that flies through the clouds or something in that vein or am I going to have to get even more creative?

I mean, you can, but why would you? I'm not sure what relevance it has to the story specifically.

I always gets excited when this quest updates. Also I looked up Lokri Epixephyrii in Google Search for some OTL info about it and this quest is the first result for that and in image search, images from this quest and the previous quests are the only results.

Well, it should technically be "Lokris Epixephyrii", but I removed the S to make it less confusing, given there's already 3 different Lokrises.
 
I've been thinking that we need to divide the metics into more manageable groups before they try and revolt. One thing that I've been thinking about is the creation of advisory councils by metics on the minor offices in where sortition of metics who would pay a sortition tax would equate them a higher political status and prestige in Eretria below that of a citizen. Sort of a citizen candidate if you will. Now these candidates might be a lifetime tenure as to become a citizen still requires an extraordinary act that impresses the ekklessia. They have the one right to make them above the rest of the metics and it is allowing their daughters to be wed to a citizen without reducing the status of the sons as long as that candidate would be willing to part a minimum amount set by either the boule or the chief of public lands portions of his wealth and bequeath inheritance to both the city and the citizen's family to ensure the marriage goes through.
 
I've been thinking that we need to divide the metics into more manageable groups before they try and revolt. One thing that I've been thinking about is the creation of advisory councils by metics on the minor offices in where sortition of metics who would pay a sortition tax would equate them a higher political status and prestige in Eretria below that of a citizen. Sort of a citizen candidate if you will. Now these candidates might be a lifetime tenure as to become a citizen still requires an extraordinary act that impresses the ekklessia. They have the one right to make them above the rest of the metics and it is allowing their daughters to be wed to a citizen without reducing the status of the sons as long as that candidate would be willing to part a minimum amount set by either the boule or the chief of public lands portions of his wealth and bequeath inheritance to both the city and the citizen's family to ensure the marriage goes through.

The best way to think about why this would be an issue is the idea that being a Metic is an inherited status and as a status it comes with two massive restrictions: a ban on participation in political life and a ban on owning property (now just land outside the walls). To create a formal path to citizenship like this, through political participation, is inimical to that idea. It certainly does make it easier and divides metics up, and the Romans had plenty of different levels of citizenship. But it doesn't really work for Eretria where there's a clear bifurcation; if Eretria were to reform to one-parent citizenship, it would do so for all Metics, not just a privileged few. Nor does it really make sense that a citizen would offer his hand in marriage to a Metic who maybe will become a citizen, but it's not guaranteed.
 
Also while i'm sure some of their worries are genuine I can't help but read a tone of "don't join Rhegions empire, join ours instead" into Krotones call for an Italiote league. The only other major Italiote power right now is Thurii and given their shaky relationship with Krotone I doubt they would be included in any hypothetical league. Thus Krotone would be the only major player in this hypothetical league and would be able to exert undue influence over it (granted any diplomatically formed league would have to treat the minors somewhat decently).

Well there's certainly an element of that, and Krotone once held a much larger hegemony over the region, but on the other hand, they're also much less expansionist than Thurii or Rhegion.

Well, looks like Lokri is going even further into decline. What were the casualties of this war?

They lost 2,000 freemen from the defection of their allies and a further 1,000 in the fighting. They're now down to 6,000, barely enough to even qualify as a middle-tier power.

I'm not sure if this happened historically. But it looks like Korinth might end up fighting their former allies. If so, good news for us, since it means they'll be distracted from the Adriatic.

Good eye. Korinthos' alliance did happen historically and was them explicitly spiting the Spartans by allying with Argos, which was the lynchpin of a series of alliances by which everyone in the Peloponnese who didn't like Sparta allied to Argos, and Argos was allied to Athenai, so the Athenians technically weren't breaching the terms of their truce. Technically.

Though here Athenai hasn't even abandoned Pylos, so who knows if that'll fly.
 
Random thought, the Oracle was totally correct about there being 2 equally probable futures, given the massive struggle over that vote when everything else was a landslide.

ALL PRAISE TO THE POWER OF APOLLO
 
Well there's certainly an element of that, and Krotone once held a much larger hegemony over the region, but on the other hand, they're also much less expansionist than Thurii or Rhegion.



They lost 2,000 freemen from the defection of their allies and a further 1,000 in the fighting. They're now down to 6,000, barely enough to even qualify as a middle-tier power.



Good eye. Korinthos' alliance did happen historically and was them explicitly spiting the Spartans by allying with Argos, which was the lynchpin of a series of alliances by which everyone in the Peloponnese who didn't like Sparta allied to Argos, and Argos was allied to Athenai, so the Athenians technically weren't breaching the terms of their truce. Technically.

Though here Athenai hasn't even abandoned Pylos, so who knows if that'll fly.
Well I would like to let Korinthos know that I am rooting for them all the way. I think they are strong and they can surely take on Sparta and reestablish themselves as a hellenic power!

You can do it! I believe in you! You go get Sparta!
 
Welp, the situation with the Pueketii is concerning, and I feel like we're flying a bit blind here. We may want to think about how to address that.

The rise of Rhegion is concerning, but ultimately expecting things to remain the same in Italia forever would be a little like a child expecting their sandcastle to last forever. If this helps provide the appetite for an Italiote League to protect the interests of the weaker cities and avoid an attempt by one city to assert hegemony, without it being seen as a hegemonic move on our part, then ultimately that's all to the good. Something was bound to kick off sooner or later.
 
Welp, the situation with the Pueketii is concerning, and I feel like we're flying a bit blind here. We may want to think about how to address that.

The rise of Rhegion is concerning, but ultimately expecting things to remain the same in Italia forever would be a little like a child expecting their sandcastle to last forever. If this helps provide the appetite for an Italiote League to protect the interests of the weaker cities and avoid an attempt by one city to assert hegemony, without it being seen as a hegemonic move on our part, then ultimately that's all to the good. Something was bound to kick off sooner or later.
We already have the office of Barbaroi Commerce, we could just extend it so that it has the ability to send ministers and officials into Peuketii lands and find out for ourselves.
 
Would it be too petty to point out that unleashing Rhegion on Lokri more or less led to exactly the kind of political instability and chaos that I feared it would? I had hoped that Lokri would manage an upset here but I guess I should be happy that it didn't turn into an outright vassal of Rhegion. Though of course if we want to go full in our alliance with Rhegion this isn't necessarily the end of the world though I find it interesting and somewhat worrisome that Taras backed Rhegion to such a degree.

The other stuff, like the news from Greece, are interesting and the history nerd in me loves them but I am honestly not to sure what to say about it. The news of a possible failure of the peace between Athens and Sparta are important and interesting but at the same time roughly in line what we expected but I honestly don't know enough about the various actors to make any real prediction about how this will all turn out. It seems like Sparta is somewhat more isolated/weaker than it was in RL but it isn't like they looked like they were on the winning side in RL either (I could mix up my history but didn't it take one or two convicing victories os the Spartans over I think the Argives to restore their nimbus of martial strength during exactly this period?) and if Athens repeats its historic mistake of upsetting Persia I don't think that the changes we have seen so far are enough to make them the favorite in the coming conflict.

The same is true about the situation about the Peuketti,it sounds worrisome but it isn't like we have that much information about it either so I guess it has to wait.
 
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We already have the office of Barbaroi Commerce, we could just extend it so that it has the ability to send ministers and officials into Peuketii lands and find out for ourselves.

The office of Barbaroi Commerce as it is currently envisaged is much more centered with trade around the city, so it would be very new ground I think. Although in principle it's definitely possible.

I think a bigger issue is that we sort of voted not to do that, when we had the decision over whether to send in tax inspectors to the Pueketii to assess their tithe or go on trust. We chose the latter, and gained a lot of goodwill from King Gorgos and their nobility as a result. Going back on that is likely to be controversial, and probably cause quite a bit of upset amongst the nobility, probably moreso than if we'd chosen inspectors originally because now it's upsetting an established order and breaking our word.

Maybe we can live with that, but then we get to the next issue: the cultural barrier. All our contact so far has been with the (hellenised) Pueketii nobility, more or less, and maybe some pastoral herders. Actually contacting their peasantry and getting some straight answers about the issue is not necessarily going to be that easy. We probably don't even speak the same language.) I'd suggest we try talking to the cattle traders and herdsmen, except the only Pueketii who bring cattle to the city are nobles or pastoralists, so that's not necessarily helpful either..

Our best bet might be to try and recruit some minor noblemen or enterprising pastoral herdsean to give us some information, and hope it has some bearing on what is actually going on? Although this will be seen (correctly) by Gorgos as us going around his back when he finds out about it.
 
It seems like Sparta is somewhat more isolated/weaker than it was in RL but it isn't like they looked like they were on the winning side in RL either (I could mix up my history but didn't it take one or two convicing victories os the Spartans over I think the Argives to restore their nimbus of martial strength)

Specifically, what happened is that the Spartans basically lost the peace of Nikias. They went in seeking to dismantle the Delian League, but it still existed at the time of the truce. To make matters worse, the major impetus for the truce, the re-patriation of those 292 Spartans, also made Sparta far more desperate than other Peloponnesian powers who felt betrayed that Sparta would just go ahead and peace out without their own agreement.

Argos makes a resurgence and tries to make a play along with Mantinea and Elis, two other Peloponnesian powers. Athenai helps them, though it bounces back and forth because in our timeline Alkibiades loses his strategos election in 419 BCE (one year from now) and Nikias tries to patch things over, only for Alkibiades to come in 418 BCE and keep pushing. Agis II, king of Sparta, responds by marching on Athenian allies in the Peloponnese and Athenai lends them support; at the Battle of Mantinea they are fucking owned and Sparta reasserts itself as dominant in the region. Argos collapses into civil war, Mantinea falls back into line, and Elis loses its southern territories. The Athenians are embarassed and it seems clear that war will boot back up.

Athens repeats its historic mistake of upsetting Persia I don't think that the changes we have seen so far are enough to make them the favorite in the coming conflict.

Certainly true. Historically, Athenai may have looked like the favorite, but its political divisions prevented it from committing to the Anti-Spartan alliance while still simultaneously pissing the Spartans off, which was the worst of both worlds. And its historical alienation of the Persians is what led to Persian gold funneling into Sparta to help them win the war, as the Athenians had now pissed off the Great King (and then Athenai went epic style and destroyed itself in Sicily).
 
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