PyroTechno
The Procrastination Pokemon
Obviously we need tomarryform a union with Athens. No one could stop us!
Hetalia: Ancient Greece when?
Obviously we need tomarryform a union with Athens. No one could stop us!
Do you really, really want to waifu Greek Polis?
Obviously we need tomarryform a union with Athens. No one could stop us!
I forget, which threadmark did Kerkyra become part of the Athenian tributary network?Well, the radical Athenians claim it's an oligarchy. In practice I'm not really so sure. The Athenians also use slaves for their civil service rather than citizens and preserve legal class distinctions, so it's not as if one democracy is obviously more radical than the other.
Lithokratia explicitly strips all of those positions away and gives power to a citizen assembly. Not sure how much more anti-oligarchic you can get.
It's a fairly significant departure from our timeline. Kerkyra wasn't part of the Athenian tributary network OTL but it is here, and Athenai has also impressed the other Ionian islands into the league. It has a much larger Adriatic presence and focus and kept Pylos here, where it did not OTL, in part because of the impasse between Athenai and Sparta but also because Pylos can help protect Eretrian grain shipments to Athenai.
I forget, which threadmark did Kerkyra become part of the Athenian tributary network?
Are you sure you want to ask that question?
I'm not saying anarchists would say "Eretria is the ideal society." Literally no one said that.This, basically. Any anarchist worth its salt with recognize the interesting parts of the democratic system, like the sovereign direct democratic assembly, frown a bit at the executive with its large power especially on missions abroad but shrug it as a necessity with the time... Then go apeshit about private property, class, castes and slavery.
I think it's important to emphasize that the concept of the people and the public as conceptualized in the ancient Mediterranean was a political ideology that emerged in that context and then disappeared; insofar as it emerged again in the renaissance it was garbled, and the modern democratic structure grew out of the noble parliament, not the popular assembly. It's a completely different conception of political affairs.
More like STONED age.If Eretria takes the place of Rome in this setting, would the era become known as the Stone Age?![]()
Athens were everyone's waifu after Alexander tbh.
OK, some Romans waifud Sparta, but only for a while. Athens though? Even now in the modern age it's everyone's waifus.
I mean, on a purely OOC basis I am a proud Atticophile and have probably spend too much time back on AH.com arguing with what I see as a tendency many have to witewash Sparta, to at least some extent. As a result, I am personally more then cool with the tought of Athens winning at the end.
Given their well, reputation, that might not be a good thing.
Indeed. Let us be the great balancing act between the two. That way, future historians can have mixed feelings about us, rather then just one way or another.I think there are good reasons why Athens was a great center of philosophy and remained a great city into Roman times, but ultimately, both were variations on the same Greek culture and the same slave-based Mediterranean economy. In other words, I don't want Eretria to be strongly influenced (let alone dominated) by either. Sparta would likely make for a more unpleasant but weaker hegemon, while Athens would make for a strong but more acceptable hegemon.
this might be good for us as it might forces the other Italiote cities to join together to resist Athens influence and with the Sicilian cities having band together for a war and possible join a League together in the future will make them nervouswhile Athens would make for a strong but more acceptable hegemon.
Let's remember Athens kinda like us so far. We're useful to them
I think that it's likely that, unless there's a demagogue specifically agitating against us, our friendship with Athens means that any conflicting interests would be marked as a lower priority to address than they otherwise would be for a conflict of any particular intensity.For sure. And I think that's worth something. Just not very much. Athens and Sparta both don't make the best friends in this period.
That's not to say that we should stop treating Athens as a friend. From what I've read of the old threads and events in more "modern" times, Athens has been a fair friend to Eretria so far. I think it was wise of the players to set aside their distaste for Athens when Athens tried to forge links and Sparta ignored Eretria in the initial forays of re-founded Eretria in pan-Hellenic politics. But I don't trust Athens very far. I don't expect our friendship with them would be worth very much if the Athenians perceived their interests in a way that ran counter to Eretria's interests. Which is a big reason why I was such a keen backer of Obander this election cycle.
fasquardon
I think that it's likely that, unless there's a demagogue specifically agitating against us, our friendship with Athens means that any conflicting interests would be marked as a lower priority to address than they otherwise would be for a conflict of any particular intensity.
For sure. And I think that's worth something. Just not very much. Athens and Sparta both don't make the best friends in this period.
That's not to say that we should stop treating Athens as a friend. From what I've read of the old threads and events in more "modern" times, Athens has been a fair friend to Eretria so far. I think it was wise of the players to set aside their distaste for Athens when Athens tried to forge links and Sparta ignored Eretria in the initial forays of re-founded Eretria in pan-Hellenic politics. But I don't trust Athens very far. I don't expect our friendship with them would be worth very much if the Athenians perceived their interests in a way that ran counter to Eretria's interests. Which is a big reason why I was such a keen backer of Obander this election cycle.
fasquardon
Normally I would never be that guy, but with the QM himself having stated that it was the update to the site who delayed the usual release schedule I feel that, this around at least, asking the question wouldn't be out of bound.
@Cetashwayo How is the timetable looking like for the next update?
Unfortunately I hit something of a snag with respect to real life so I can only comment with the detail I'd like on your first note, but it's been bugging me so here goes.Alright, here is my attempt at trying to guess which Demos might have been on which side of which votes on some of the ones Kipeci has left empty
A small asside first: on the top of my head I would say the description of Carthage as a potential ally has the creation of an alliance essentially been something of a hail mary pass. It had Taras being seemingly victorious so Eretria simply decided to try its luck with Carthage to see if some assistance could be garnered and, probably to its own surprise, they answered with a massive intervention to save the city geopolitical position. As a result that alliance would have essentially happened without necessarely being sponsored by a Demos.
If I had to attribute a choice of allie to the Exorians I would go with Thurii and the Sikeliote League, mainly as a bullwark against Syrakousai. I would agree that the Drakonids probably pushed for Athens but, as Syrakousai was showing sign of ressurgence, the Antipatrids and the Exorians would have gotten together and managed to outvote them on that particular issue, one of their rare significant defeats in the time of their dominance. Or at least that's how I would make sense of it IC.
On Epidamnos we got Symachos and Obander on record so the ? are superfluous. Memnon is a bit more dicey but the fact he defended them when Obander accused them of wanting to manipulate Eretria would strongly indicate the Exorians where in favour of letting them in.
Regarding Peuketii affairs (turn 3) I would say the Exoria would have been in favour of focusing on levies (due to the importance they give to the Eretrian army) and sending inspectors (as they seek to depen ties with them). The Antipatrids are likely to have supported the opposite, wanting to keep as clear a separation between Eretria and the Barbaroii due to their traditionalism and limiting the city military dependence on them. The Drakonids would be a bit more tricky but I would say they would have supported going for levies, as making the Peuketii provide even more skirmishers help set the stage to turn more pilsoii into rowers. Not sure for the other proposal tough.
When it comes to the alliance with the Messapii the Exoria would obviously be in favour. After all, it was Memnon policy, and I can't see the Antipatrids being too enthusiastic about a war to prevent Taras from subjugating the Messapii. The Drakonids could go either way but, at the end of the day I feel that an occasion to secure Eretria southern flank would appeal to them as it would, as they would saw it, allow the city to turn to the Adriatic with less pressing worries on the mainlands.
As for the peace Linos was stating to have been in favour.
Its a bit more shaky but, as to which polis in Italy we should ally with (turn 6) I would bet both the Antipatrids and the Exorians where probably in favour of Krotone. It fit the traditionalism of the formers and the emphasis the latters put on land power.
In Sicily (turn 8) word of god told us Obander wanted to send the athenians away while Linos and Memnon wanted to work with them. On the focus to be given to the congress I would say the Sicilian League fit pretty well with Obander outlook on things and advocating for expension to the interior with the Exorians.
For our choice of allies on the Liburnian expedition I would say the Dalmatae fit well with the Exorians, wanting to build new ties with other barbaroii and adding a land component to the war and all that. The Drakonids would probably have gone with the Enetoi, as the expedition was probably conceived as the culmination of the smaller anti-piracy campaigns of the past and would therefore naturally be drawn to an ally having proven itself usefull in the past. Plus, their conception of the campaign was probably purely naval (no Dalmatae) and they where confident enough in their own triremes to not feel the need for reinforcements in that regard (so no Etruscans) leaving the Enetoi as a good source of Pentakoters to diminish the numerical advantage of the Liburni. The Antipatrids are more fusy but if I had to guess I would say they would go with the Etruscans as getting more triremes for the campaign seem more aligned to their traditionalist military outlook.
On Kimai I would say both the Drakonids (a nice, new, big colony) and the Antipatrids (greek solidarity) where for it. I could see some Exorians being annoyed at loosing a good opportunity to get Memnon back in office with a mandate to fight the Dauni but the resonance of Kimai situation with Eretria own history is simply too great for any demos to try to oppose it so they probably got on board as well.
Regarding the Linean Laws I would imagine the Drakonids would stand with their leader while the Exorians would figure those settlers who wouldn't go to Nea Kimai where likely to end up elsewhere in the colonies too, and therefore leading to support granting an exception to Kimai with their focus on brute numbers in mind. Obander was stated by voice of god to support the exception as well, so the Antipatrids probably followed.
On where Rhegion energies should be directed (turn 10) I would say the Antipatrids probably support playing mediator with the Sikelian League, as it fit Obander idealism.
In the last turn I would argue the Antipatrids and the Exorians where in favour of getting the Oracle to Eretria, as the cultural influence coming with it would be usefull in conducting foreign policies with the Italian and Sicilian greeks or the Italian hinterlands, respectively, while the Drakonids naturally wanted to spread the diffusion of Epulian culture on the other side of the Adriatic.