- Location
- Russia
If nothing else, some minor mutation would make her more popular with randos, because everybody loves catgirls.
Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)
- Thread starter Silently Watches
- Start date
- Location
- Belfast
"Huh... Cute girl with cat ears."
"Are you blind you idiot! Those aren't cat ears! They're Honey Badger ones!"
Cause of course Missy would pick the animal renowned for picking fights with stuff much bigger than itself
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Since we, or rather Tim via DragonTech, will potentially be in a position to start selling powers in the coming months I thought it worthwhile to attempt to estimate a valuation of superpowers.
Valuation 1: Wages
The median income in the United States for 2011 was $48,202 for men and $37,118 for women.
Meanwhile membership in the Protectorate offers a base salary of $78,780 for the first year and $112,810 per year after that. That means buying powers and switching to a career in the Protectorate offers the average person a wage increase of between $30,578 and $41,662 for their first year and between $64,608 and $75,692 for all subsequent years. That right there is a pretty hefty bonus.
This however is ignoring the increased risk due to combat that Protectorate members would face. So we can't assume a long career here. Looking at the US military, specifically the enlisted as they are the most likely to face combat, we can see some interesting trends. Back during the Vietnarm war, after the removal of the draft, the average career length was 5.8 years and in the modern (2009) Iraq/Afghanistan garrisoning it is up to 6.7 years.
So with that in mind I figure 6 years is a good benchmark for a Protectorate career. Possibly a bit low given most villains aren't trying to kill you like enemy soldiers but there are enough crazies out there for it to be not too unrealistic. Besides it is pretty time consuming, as we just discussed, and without the conflict drive I figure most artificial heroes would want to eventually retire to a less stressful job, perhaps to start a family.
Naively we could just add up the total income difference over six years of employment in the Protectorate ($353,618 for men and $420,122 for women) and use that as the expected valuation. However this ignores the fundamental fact that a dollar today is worth more then a dollar tomorrow. Determining the appropriate discount rate is hard but from some googling of things like the 5 year treasury rate and factoring in Earth Bet's less stable economy I figure a 1.5% rate is about right.
Factoring all that in gives an expected net present value of $334,278 for men and $397,377 for women.
Basically even ignoring the exclusivity of gaining superhuman powers, the benefits of being able to chose your power/risks, and the question of supply vs. demand it is easy to justify charging six digit prices for powers.
This actually has me thinking; how well paid are PRT troopers? Because if those PRT Mages aren't getting comparable pay to Protectorate Heroes well I see labor disputes coming up in the future. After all the PRT can't exactly take away a Mage's powers once they learn magic. So there isn't much stopping them from, once the program goes public, resigning and joining the Protectorate.
On a similar note; how are PRT Mage Guardian Beasts getting paid? Because if they aren't lawyers are going to be clambering over each other for the chance to participate in a modern day slavery case against a government organization. As is GBs are functionally already pretty close to slaves but without payment it is pretty much a slam dunk. Unless of course the PRT tries to argue they aren't people in which case again lawyers are going to be desperate to participate in a legendary case of what is and isn't legally a person.
Valuation 1: Wages
The median income in the United States for 2011 was $48,202 for men and $37,118 for women.
Meanwhile membership in the Protectorate offers a base salary of $78,780 for the first year and $112,810 per year after that. That means buying powers and switching to a career in the Protectorate offers the average person a wage increase of between $30,578 and $41,662 for their first year and between $64,608 and $75,692 for all subsequent years. That right there is a pretty hefty bonus.
This however is ignoring the increased risk due to combat that Protectorate members would face. So we can't assume a long career here. Looking at the US military, specifically the enlisted as they are the most likely to face combat, we can see some interesting trends. Back during the Vietnarm war, after the removal of the draft, the average career length was 5.8 years and in the modern (2009) Iraq/Afghanistan garrisoning it is up to 6.7 years.
So with that in mind I figure 6 years is a good benchmark for a Protectorate career. Possibly a bit low given most villains aren't trying to kill you like enemy soldiers but there are enough crazies out there for it to be not too unrealistic. Besides it is pretty time consuming, as we just discussed, and without the conflict drive I figure most artificial heroes would want to eventually retire to a less stressful job, perhaps to start a family.
Naively we could just add up the total income difference over six years of employment in the Protectorate ($353,618 for men and $420,122 for women) and use that as the expected valuation. However this ignores the fundamental fact that a dollar today is worth more then a dollar tomorrow. Determining the appropriate discount rate is hard but from some googling of things like the 5 year treasury rate and factoring in Earth Bet's less stable economy I figure a 1.5% rate is about right.
Factoring all that in gives an expected net present value of $334,278 for men and $397,377 for women.
Basically even ignoring the exclusivity of gaining superhuman powers, the benefits of being able to chose your power/risks, and the question of supply vs. demand it is easy to justify charging six digit prices for powers.
This actually has me thinking; how well paid are PRT troopers? Because if those PRT Mages aren't getting comparable pay to Protectorate Heroes well I see labor disputes coming up in the future. After all the PRT can't exactly take away a Mage's powers once they learn magic. So there isn't much stopping them from, once the program goes public, resigning and joining the Protectorate.
On a similar note; how are PRT Mage Guardian Beasts getting paid? Because if they aren't lawyers are going to be clambering over each other for the chance to participate in a modern day slavery case against a government organization. As is GBs are functionally already pretty close to slaves but without payment it is pretty much a slam dunk. Unless of course the PRT tries to argue they aren't people in which case again lawyers are going to be desperate to participate in a legendary case of what is and isn't legally a person.
Tassadar
The Overlord of Cakes & Toucans!
I would not be surprise, if they already have something there.
Masters are an thing, any of them could easily have intelligence minions. Guardian Beasts are not independent lives, they depend on there mage creator to live and the only reasons they will go court would be giving there master more pay.
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Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
A very interesting analysis
PROBABLY not as much as heroes.
This is a very interesting situation. The PRT's Guardian Beasts are not being paid directly. Instead, their mages are being reimbursed for all expenses related to the care and housing of their GB. Which on the surface sounds really bad and a great deal like indentured servitude or slavery. That being said, it's also worth noting that the GBs don't want to be paid, or more precisely don't CARE if they're paid or not. Even if they were offered money, they would ask for it to go to their mages.
Once again we're getting into the same issue that Legend ran into when dealing with Cat Sith for the first time: no matter that they look like humans, even look more human than some Case 53s, they very much don't THINK like humans. Stuff we worry about and find important, they couldn't care less about. As long as their mages are healthy, happy, and safe, that's all that really matters.
- Location
- Earth, Sol System, Virgo Supercluster, Earth-1218
I suspect at some point they'll hammer it out into some sort of Per Diem like deal where they get paid for housing and feeding the GBs. Which, if you game it, can be a profit, but mostly it just offsets the additional expense of having someone / something else in the house.
For example: if a Mage lives in a non pet friendly apartment they can use the Per Diem to move into a pet friendly apartment.
In the AA Mage's case (I forget her name) she already has pets, so her Per Diem would go towards buying more pet food and the rest would be a tidy bonus.
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I think there will be some interesting developments with the GBs being "people" but also "not human". They think differently, and have other priorities than a human would.
AT the very least for the time being mages will be in an interesting position. Right now there is at least some pressure to stay as officers of the law due to rivalries between the PRT and Protectorate.
When you get into the psych differences it gets even better, the absence of a conflict drive and not necessarily being subject to mental drama makes them very different to a parahuman. At least a good portion of being in the Protectorate involves being a spokesperson/celebrity while also being part of a group that sees combat. It would not surprise me if they were given a good deal of publicity specifically so other parahumans know about them if they are looking for a fight. And there is the constant campaign trying to convince the population that people with superpowers are not necessarily a bad thing. Despite what you have seen and the problems they create outside of Endbringer battles.
AT the very least for the time being mages will be in an interesting position. Right now there is at least some pressure to stay as officers of the law due to rivalries between the PRT and Protectorate.
When you get into the psych differences it gets even better, the absence of a conflict drive and not necessarily being subject to mental drama makes them very different to a parahuman. At least a good portion of being in the Protectorate involves being a spokesperson/celebrity while also being part of a group that sees combat. It would not surprise me if they were given a good deal of publicity specifically so other parahumans know about them if they are looking for a fight. And there is the constant campaign trying to convince the population that people with superpowers are not necessarily a bad thing. Despite what you have seen and the problems they create outside of Endbringer battles.
If they decide to up the pay of Mage trooper squads to parahuman tier or close to it, I can see the financial realities of such a move limiting the number of squads per branch to perhaps 1 or 2. It's definitely a limiter to the idea of mass producing PRT Mages.
Personally I suspect the temporary solution the PRT will end up going with is simply paying the Guardian Beasts a fair wage and telling them they can do whatever they want with the money. If that means giving it to their mage then that is their choice. Odds are in the future there will be plenty of legal, philosophical, and moral battles fought over how to handle Guardian Beasts but in the short term simply paying them with the understanding that the money will end up being used by the mage anyway works well enough.
Odds are decent that would actually end up being the long run solution too. Both because temporary solutions have a habit of becoming permanent and because the Mages aren't going to want that to change. It means they get double income but with a lower effective tax rate because it is split across two people.
Odds are decent that would actually end up being the long run solution too. Both because temporary solutions have a habit of becoming permanent and because the Mages aren't going to want that to change. It means they get double income but with a lower effective tax rate because it is split across two people.
- Location
- USA
Personally, I'm much more interested in seeing Capes and Mages solve problems and get in fights and socialize, and much less interested in complex legal battles over pay rates and "personhood of those who don't want it" or trying to renovate all of society turn-by-turn through munchkinry. If only because I like how SW writes the first and there are plenty of quests and stories (i'm reading some) on here already handling the latter.
TLDR Why do we need to inject lawyers and accountants into our superhero story?
TLDR Why do we need to inject lawyers and accountants into our superhero story?
We don't. It only came up as a side thought when contemplating the pricing of superpowers.
Well it is probably something that will be going on in the background and possibly hamper our efforts, should we chose to invest the time, to expand the PRT's mage program but it really isn't going to be our concern. Calamity Witch works for neither the Protectorate nor the PRT so their internal issues regarding payment, what counts as a parahuman, and what counts as a person should have minimal effect on us.
Unless of course we get called before a senate inquiry as an expert witness on mages and guardian beasts. That could be amusing an amusing mini-arc.
- Location
- Amsterdam
Once the legal battle takes off, then it might become time to bring in the TSAB in a more public role. Because at that point Earth will be an emerging magical world and contact would become necessary anyway.
They'll probably refuse until/unless Earth Bet transitions from national governments to a single global one.
dhasenan
always lowercase
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Probably simplest to say they've got identities established with the Case 53 protocols, but without being listed as capes. Then they're hired as normal PRT workers and have all decided to do direct deposit into their respective mages' checking accounts. It gives them legal personhood and doesn't run afoul the Fair Labor Standards Act.
Federal agencies aren't allowed to use unpaid volunteers. State agencies are. Non-profits can use volunteers in non-commercial capacities.
- Location
- Georgia
I think I'm rambling worse than average and am definitely having issues focusing. You might want to skip this post as a result. You have been warned.
Consider that one of the recent interludes talked about folding the Protectorate into the PRT over the next few years, which will likely be tied to immediate raises to the PRT mages once they demonstrate their effectiveness. I doubt the first bonuses will take more than a month or two to show up precisely so they aren't tempted to take their magic toys and leave. With the Endbringers being dealt with, there is also a lot less of a need to let villains be free range. Paying capes with crap powers more than the PRT becomes less feasible when we can give so many people access to powers that exceed those, though coming up with some way to deal with their conflict drives will be needed sooner or later.
The thing this makes me wonder is whether Transcendent Gadgeteers will be able to make superluminal ships after analyzing tinkertech. Currently , the TSAB only has access to other Earths, but we know that the Entities aren't just aliens, they're aliens which have attacked countless alien races. The shards given to humans include intentional blind spots, one of which being ftl travel, but TGs analyzing that tech and taking it in new directions could, if nothing else, expand the problem of "what does it mean to be a person" beyond just humans and GB/familiars. It's a problem sci-fi has been thinking about since the creation of sci-fi, Eath Bet is just being forced to face it sooner.
Consider that one of the recent interludes talked about folding the Protectorate into the PRT over the next few years, which will likely be tied to immediate raises to the PRT mages once they demonstrate their effectiveness. I doubt the first bonuses will take more than a month or two to show up precisely so they aren't tempted to take their magic toys and leave. With the Endbringers being dealt with, there is also a lot less of a need to let villains be free range. Paying capes with crap powers more than the PRT becomes less feasible when we can give so many people access to powers that exceed those, though coming up with some way to deal with their conflict drives will be needed sooner or later.
The thing this makes me wonder is whether Transcendent Gadgeteers will be able to make superluminal ships after analyzing tinkertech. Currently , the TSAB only has access to other Earths, but we know that the Entities aren't just aliens, they're aliens which have attacked countless alien races. The shards given to humans include intentional blind spots, one of which being ftl travel, but TGs analyzing that tech and taking it in new directions could, if nothing else, expand the problem of "what does it mean to be a person" beyond just humans and GB/familiars. It's a problem sci-fi has been thinking about since the creation of sci-fi, Eath Bet is just being forced to face it sooner.
Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
[X] Cassiel
Ziz needs to form actual bonds. Big Sis Tay for the win.
Ziz needs to form actual bonds. Big Sis Tay for the win.
Tassadar
The Overlord of Cakes & Toucans!
Those I wonder how this will last...
Because the second part means if they were being paid, there masters would be better off.
Did you read the "Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest" Beach episode?
So I wanted to get an idea of how these numbers compared with Cauldron's offerings. After all we know for a fact people were more then willing to purchase Cauldron's powers despite them being incredibly shady so they probably provide a good idea of the current market.
The best details we get, AFAIK, on the topic are from Battery's interlude. The key facts I've found are:
- Battery had a maximum budget of $735,000 (730,000 in property + 5,000 college fund).
- Cauldron requires two thirds up front and the last third over six years.
- Even with the 2/3 down-payment ($1,102,500 total) Battery could not afford a power capable of taking on a Striker 7.
- Cauldron's payscale was broken down into 6 colors (white, sky-blue, dark blue, purple, red, crimson) with dark blue representing several million dollars and crimson hundreds of millions.
- Battery's budget got her into the white and sky-blue categories.
- The "R" factor (presumably randomness) with a value of 5 represented a 4% chance of unwanted physical changes, 0.5% chance of undisguisable physical changes, and a general category of power rather then a specific power.
- In exchange for 3 factors Battery got a sufficient discount to make it into the dark blue category.
- Even with her dark blue category power Battery wasn't able to take down Madcap in seven attempts with her eighth only succeeding because she had Legend helping.
Well for starters we have enough data to make some price estimates. White and sky-blue are in the million or less category, crimson is over a hundred million, and dark blue is multiple (single digit) millions. From that I'd guess Cauldron's price structure was something along the lines of:
- White: $0 to $499,999
- Sky-Blue: $500,000 to $1,499,999
- Dark-Blue: $1,500,000 to $4,999,999
- Purple: $5,000,000 to $9,999,999
- Red: $10,000,000 to $99,999,999
- Crimson: $100,000,000+
- Sub-million
- Around a million
- Low millions
- High millions
- Tens of millions
- Hundreds of millions
Now for comparison what can Shipwright offer up? Well for starters he has a much more limited selection of power options. While Cauldron had basically every power under the sun Shipwright has 6 serums he can offer up:
- Strike Boost Serum
- Barret Boost Serum
- Physical Heal Serum
- Unknown Serum
- Unknown Serum
- Unknown Serum
Basically though right now there are only four powers we know of that we can offer in the future (once unlocked). One offensive Brute power (Strike Boost), one defensive Brute power (Physical Heal), one Blaster power (Barret Boost), and one Trump power (Linker Core). Of these the first comes with a minor mutation, the next two mild mutations, and the last is mostly random.
So we probably couldn't get away with charging the upper ratings since we can't really offer high "O" ratings (probably Originality) and while our powers aren't really random they would have a high "R" rating simply for the guaranty of mutation. Plus from what we've seen the "P" value probably won't be that high since these powers seem more middle of the range then anything. At least individually.
One of the things that separates us from Cauldron is that we can stack powers to create what are essentially grab bags. Of course we'd probably want to charge more for multiple powers. This may not seem fair at first since 3 serums costs us the same regardless of how many people they go to but each person we give a stronger power (IE: multiple serums) to means fewer heroes overall. Plus it also increases the risk, and need to verify their integrity, since the more powerful the client the worse it would be if they turn villainous.
If we were to use Cauldrons pricing scale as a guide I'd probably go with something along the lines of:
- White (<$500,000): 1 x Barret Boost Mutagenic or 1 x Physical Heal Mutagenic.
- Sky-Blue (<$1,500,000): 1 x Strike Boost Mutagenic or 2 x White Powers.
- Dark Blue (<$5,000,000): Strike Boost Mutagentic and one White Power.
- Purple (<$10,000,000): All 3 Powers.
What would make things expensive would be getting a Device since that dramatically increases a Mage's power (double spell slots + free Barrier Jacket). Training would further increase the price. The prices for these would probably vary with Linker Core size since again while we are paying the same price either way the client is getting a bigger and better reward.
Something else to consider:
@Silently Watches - I think this has been asked before but just in case; can Tim give non-power related mutations and if so how many slots do they cost to produce? I ask because there are probably people out there who would want to gamble on a Linker Core Mutagenic without first having to shell out for 3 additional powers to get the 3 mutations required. Plus there would be plenty of people interested in just straight up buying cosmetic mutations, anime hair or eyes for example, without any powers attached.
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
Yes, Tim can make strictly cosmetic serums. Because they're mutations, they cost a full slot per serum, but unlike most power-granting mutagenic serums, you can specify what physical outcome they have by default (with power granting serums, you need to spend an additional slot to get that specificity).
Looking at your pricing scheme, I personally would switch Strike Boost and Barret Boost in the categories. Barret Boost has a higher originality factor (16 possibilities with possibility of more due to "random chance", I.e. write-ins), and honestly more usefulness and safety since you would have more distance from your opponent and could combat fliers or other ranged fighters.
Oh, and just an FYI for everybody. I changed one of the Tech Enhancement skills from a weapon upgrade to a serum, so there are now FIVE serums in the first cross-training with two more in the second stage.
- Location
- Canada
Forget powers, lets sell monster/animal-girl/boy formulas to whats left of japan! Well be rich!
Huh, targeted mutations to act as buffer for potential mutations for linker core may explain the prevalence of anime hair in Nanohaverse.
Hell, give someone anime hair treatment, maybe some kind of eye mutation (eye color that isn't natural? i.e. red/crimson iris?), and make their ears elf-like but not overdone, and if we want to give them another mutation that isn't that noticeable, maybe a relatively small set of fangs or something, to make a standard packaging for Taylor's friends (when we have Taylor actually go out and make more friends) and we will have effectively eliminated worst case scenario for LCM.
It'll just take a lot of build slots.
Hell, give someone anime hair treatment, maybe some kind of eye mutation (eye color that isn't natural? i.e. red/crimson iris?), and make their ears elf-like but not overdone, and if we want to give them another mutation that isn't that noticeable, maybe a relatively small set of fangs or something, to make a standard packaging for Taylor's friends (when we have Taylor actually go out and make more friends) and we will have effectively eliminated worst case scenario for LCM.
It'll just take a lot of build slots.
Not necessarily. A cosmetic serum may take a full slot but there is nothing saying that one cosmetic serum only grants one mutation.
In fact if you look at Tim's Idea List, which SW just updated today, we see:
it says features plural rather then "a specific cosmetic feature". That does seem to imply we can grant more then one such feature. Cat ears + claws + tail as an example package.
Thinking about Mutations; @Silently Watches would it be possible to create a Mutagenic to negate a mutation? It would obviously have to be tailored to that specific person and probably take additional build slots. However I don't see why if we can trigger a mutation to create a specific feature why we can't create one to destroy a specific feature.
I doubt it would see much use since most mutations can probably be handled easier and cheaper, because build slots have some serious opportunity cost, by hospitals and doctors but it is an interesting thought.