Crusader Jerome
Subsisting on Supplication
- Location
- My home away from Rome
Huh. Didn't catch that when I read it. Now the fanart makes sense.
Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)
- Thread starter Silently Watches
- Start date
- Location
- Hug the Moebot; Save the world
Jeez you are starting to guilt me into drawing something :<. Maybe if we are lucky i might be able to do something when i have some free time.
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
Her tummy got flattened, but otherwise she doesn't have much of a figure still. She also doesn't have quite as crushingly huge self-esteem issues as canon or in the first chapter, which in my opinion was the bigger issue.
And another point!
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Ok, think I followed this long enough to get over my discomfort of it being a forum lol. Would it be wrong to ask for input on how to go about trying to make a canon compliant PHO omake for this quest? Silently Watches already gave me the link to the PHO generator, it's just hard to find the time or inspiration to start it, and this needs some PHO lol
- Location
- Georgia
Not being subject to passenger interference pushing her to be more violent isn't the same as having no chance of going crazy aggressive. Humans were chosen over some of the other species/planets They considered because we are plenty aggressive all on our own. Further, explaining the actions in game would mean adding necessary back story to explain why she would do this, meaning long term repercussions in how her character develops.
So, we don't want to go this way:
Who would have ever guessed that the secret to defeating Nilbog's Goblin armies was head and shoulders shampoo?
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
No, what Tassadar was saying is that the first Butcher shard, the one that allows the powers and personality to jump from host to host, is explicitly limited to other capes. If, by some miracle (or magic!
), a non-parahuman killed the Butcher, the conglomerate would not be able to move to that person. It would have to find another cape nearby.
Crusader Jerome
Subsisting on Supplication
- Location
- My home away from Rome
Which brings the question down to, how long is that maximum range, and is the North Pole isolated enough to no-sell the respawn?No, what Tassadar was saying is that the first Butcher shard, the one that allows the powers and personality to jump from host to host, is explicitly limited to other capes. If, by some miracle (or magic!
Be our luck the North Pole is close enough to The Sleeper.
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Ummm spoiler?
Considering Cherish was it? Apparently lost at sea wasn't far enough to feel safe for most capes.
- Location
- Georgia
Ah, I misinterpreted the intent.No, what Tassadar was saying is that the first Butcher shard, the one that allows the powers and personality to jump from host to host, is explicitly limited to other capes. If, by some miracle (or magic!
So, the real question is, can we teleport Nidhogg* to an uninhabited reality and then test fire Ragnarok? There are few people in the Worm-verse I'd be ok with executing like this, but Lung makes his way onto the list even before he added the Butcher, though to be fair, he was not at the top of the list.
*Presuming I remember correctly that they gave Butcher/Lung this name in this story. There're so many stories to keep straight, but that's a good thing.
- Location
- Koszalin, Poland
It's possible it is different on Earth-Bet, but Greenland population in 2018 is 55,877 people. In 2011 it should be lower, but similar. Also whole Greenland territory size is 2,166,086 km2, which means that population density is a wooping... 0.028/km2. Which is like only 1/5 of human per km2. To compare it, another big territory with a very small population density which is Mongolia has in comparison 1.97/km2 (while in Unites States it's 32.8/km2).
Now if we take into account Piggot words from her Interlude:
Ok, when we keep it very rounded (although Greenland may have few more parahumans as from what I know Greenland is a bit infamous for being world 'leader' in the number of people comitting suicides there. Which also means a place where trigger events may be more common then normal.
If we go with 1:26,000 ratio is means that in whole population... 2-3 parahumans. As 2:52000 is a ratio number here.
If we go with 1:8000 ratio then it is about... 6-8 parahumans as for 48000 population would include 6 parahumans.
In other words let's go with... 6 parahumans. Only 6 people on a territory which is a little bit less then half of European Union combined... (2,166,086 km2 vs 4,475,757 km2) killing Lung should be very, very safe unless he is very close to a territory which is occupied by bigger groups of humans (like capitol Nuuk).
So yeah, chance for no selling Butcher!Lung in this scenario is indeed high.
Of course my math skills are absolutely atrocious, so I may be wrong, but... yeah. If this is what we consider to do, I can safely say this is a very safe bet to go for, even if numbers are less favourable.
Of course this assumes Lung is reasonably close to the biggest closest population around. But yeah, I suspect it's very close to the middle of the North Pole, so... yeah, it should be even safer. And I present pretty much 'worst case scenario' here if he for example decides to move closer or something.
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Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
I cannot find fault with this math. And honestly? I'd probably lean more towards the 2-3.
So the REAL question would be assuming there was a parahuman in range, it is someone who's already super powerful and would be an S-class threat if anybody knew about them and becomes a god with Butcher's powers added on? Or just, you know, someone who makes goats lactate a lot or something?
- Location
- Georgia
I'd hate to see the trigger event that could give somebody that power. Of course, now that I thought that, I'm thinking of somebody who just saw their parents killed and who is trying to save their baby sibling's life, but has no food for it.... Then again, the more obvious answer would be to make yourself lactate, but as Scapegoat and Weaver both mention, you don't necessarily get the ability you want or that would make the most sense.
Archeo Lumiere
The Prince's Archivist
- Location
- Lumiose City, Kalos
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
Even if they were just the Lactater, they'd still become Nidhogg if Nidhogg died close enough to shard hop.
- Location
- Erebus
Somehow I don't think even post scion crazy worms would give you that ability, unless the lactation was a caustic acid and you had some sort of control over said goats.
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
Come back and tell me that after you have goat milk squirted into your eyes. Mostly because I just want to laugh at somebody for having goat milk squirted into their eyes.
- Location
- Erebus
I very much doubt it's as bad as pepper spray.
That is a Dork Witch of a Dark Witch!Calamity Witch
Ahhh, how sure are you about that?
Flare mana puts out heat. It puts out radiation. The explosion created by Ragnarök would be measured at 30kt.
That does not mean that Ragnarök is the same as a 30kt nuke. After all, nukes aren't mana-based. Flare mana has heat and radiation, but it isn't just heat and radiation. The radiation wasn't even the goal when the Galeans engineered the Flare affinity.
Uh, not quite. They don't know whether Nilbog will succeed. They know he has enough of a chance of success that they're never going to take the first shot unless he proves to be a bigger threat than the bureaucratic annoyance he currently is. Furthermore, most of these estimates are drawn via notoriously vague Thinkers, which largely means whoever signs off on it, succeed or fail, is likely going to face a court martial even if it was justified. Nobody's going to eat the political fallout
I.e. his monsters are probably not immune to a nuclear device, even the fire-explosive growth ones. However people have survived being nuked by WWII era bombs(if not usually live long after), so theres a good chance that the kind of low fallout limited yield nuclear device that might be authorized on American soil would fail to fully eradicate every shred of life, which means theres going to be SOMETHING in a nook or cranny which proceeds to spread explosively in the wake of such a blast.
That said I think the East Coast of Monsters scenario is likely a Perfect Run for Nilbog. We know his monsters aren't perfectly self replicating from canon. They suffer improbably high rates of copy defects over their lifespan and secondary/tertiary power-spawns are limited to what energy they can extract from their immediate environment, the shard is not supporting them with its own energy other than producing them(remember the Entities project requires the THREAT of apocalypse, but they don't actually want to kill the whole experiment group) which means you're probably going to see a hostile biome spread explosively over biomass rich areas before collapsing into something closer to a stretch of Monster Hunter wilderness, unless one of them triggers with a bud of Nilbog's power in a manner not unlike Dragon triggering over the need to maintain her tinkertech codebase existence.
Which means you need Nilbog to resupply the gribblies, via his power. Nilbog is the lynchpin of Ellisburg. He's the brain, heart and liver of the operation.
But he's in a meat power armor, in an underground bunker.
This is the sort of thing Ragnarok would deal with because, as far as I'm aware, Ragnarok doesn't lose yield from plowing through concrete and dirt(citation Diabolic Emission, Starlight Breaker, and other Breakers tended to do this). It just destroys it and continues propagate at the same energy level unless:
1) It encounters an obstacle it cannot destroy, and stops propagating until the obstacle's durability or the spell's duration runs out.
2) It reaches the maximum extent of its programmed radius
3) It reaches the maximum extent of the energy supplied
These makes it uniquely well suited to bunker-breaking, unless Nilbog was using exotic material bunkers, its not going to shatter the building above the bunker and stop, its going to MELT the building, melt the dirt, melt the bunker, until you have a glassed crater.
By contrast the Mistletein solution(speaking as someone who voted for it) is single target blasts, which is almost CERTAIN to have some of Nilbog's mice sized gribblies burrow away and enact the plot of Pinky and the Brain, Evolution, or Gremlins.
Also part of it is her lifestyle. Not eating much, regular, intensive physical and mental exertion, irregular sleeping hours.
I'm not sure if Perfect Storm even considers it something that needs fixing.
The Nanohaverse adult cast usually has somewhat realistic ranges of chest size, its not particularly USEFUL, and Taylor's opinion on being ogled at present is distinctly negative.
Shard maximum trigger ranges is suggested to be somewhere past lunar orbit.
I'd suggest tapping into the TSAB sealing techniques instead. They had a lot of practice with Lost Logias that respawn when destroyed.
That said....
@Silently WatchesNo, what Tassadar was saying is that the first Butcher shard, the one that allows the powers and personality to jump from host to host, is explicitly limited to other capes. If, by some miracle (or magic!
I thought there was a canon non-cape Butcher? And that the Butcher's inherited powers degraded each host past the one it got a particular power on?
It was a plot point from canon that the Butcher only really had like 2-3 useful powers from the most recent hosts...aside from the Brute rating because 5+10%+20% of a Brute rating is still pretty good and Brute powers tended to stack linearly, while other types of powers are never going to stack unless you had a Butcher jump through the Heartbreaker family or something.
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Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
What I recall from canon is that every Butcher has been a cape, at least partly because the only people powerful enough and crazy enough to take on the Butcher and be able to kill it
As for the degradation, my understanding is that the powers are diminished from the original, but not that they suffer further degradation each time the shard jumps ship. Then again, it's been a while since I've sat down and reread the parts of Worm dealing with the Butcher.
From a pragmatic PoV (i.e. not caring that we just subjected poor Lactater to being the Butcher), it's still a pro, since the power is weakened when you're not the primary user.
From memory of WoG, it was ~100 kms or something like that. i.e. Quite a hefty radius in a city scale, but not so much on a country/empty stretch of ocean scale.
I mean, 2-3 useful powers sounds right, but I don't think that was because they weren't capes, just because they didn't just didn't have useful powers (at least once you jumped to the next Butcher), or were just passives that couldn't be separated e.g. Brutes/dangers sense. (An unpowered person ganking the Butcher while they slept does sound familiar, but that A: Might've been a cape and my memory's just terrible, or B: might've been fanfic).
- Location
- Koszalin, Poland
Before I type here is the map of North Pole. My absolutely shitty red line made in Paint in about 3 seconds is what I suspect most probable move of potential Butcher!Lung which tries to escape and find the closest bigger human population to increase chance of it having a parahuman or whatever human if Butcher shard can jump towards 'normal' as my memory may also be off here.
As you see Greenland is the closest biggest land for potential escaping Butcher!Lung around. So this is why I mentioned Greenland calculations.
Although if this is the case that non-parahuman can become a Butcher, it will complicate things a bit more in case of what I call 'worst case scenario', but Nidhogg needs to move/teleport (it may be weakened compared to previous Butcher?) pretty much as quickly as possible towards south end of Greenland or towards most isolated north parts of Canada and taking into account Leviathan may happen in Canada again... I suspect they may avoid coastlines that far away to move towards more friendly parts of Canada. So while I think Canada direction is possible for escaping Butcher!Lung is Calamity Witch do indeed forces him to retreat, I would bet on Greenland being more probable direction. Rest I would say is too far or too isolated with too few humans to even bother with.
Although in A Champion in Earth Bet by sun tzu he presents an interesting idea that more durable breakers, brutes or changers may actually escape towards regions like South Pole (he doesn't mention North, but it may be logical as well here) to avoid punishment for their crimes, which is... pretty interesting worldbuilding. Now imagine those witnesses seeing that potential epic showdown between Nidhogg and Calamity Witch, Calamity Witch kills Butcher!Lung and suddenly one of those parahuman observers become a new Butcher
.When I think about it, this sounds like a fun scenario to think about and possibly read later on in this quest
.
- Location
- Earth, Sol System, Virgo Supercluster, Earth-1218
I mean, if the TSAB respects Kill Orders they could knock butcher!Lung out, go to the space between universes, and just... let him go into the Aether.
Kind of hard to jump to another Parahuman when you're not on the same plane as one (or on a plane yourself).
Alternatively if they've managed to knock him out Taylor can take him to a world with no / nearly no Parahumans and pop him there.
(Weird side note about powers and the "Lunar orbit" limit? Simurgh came from the OTHER SIDE of the Moon, so either the Endbringers have a larger limit, or Lunar Orbit is an approximation including the opposite side of the moon.)
Kind of hard to jump to another Parahuman when you're not on the same plane as one (or on a plane yourself).
Alternatively if they've managed to knock him out Taylor can take him to a world with no / nearly no Parahumans and pop him there.
(Weird side note about powers and the "Lunar orbit" limit? Simurgh came from the OTHER SIDE of the Moon, so either the Endbringers have a larger limit, or Lunar Orbit is an approximation including the opposite side of the moon.)
- Location
- Georgia
Before I type here is the map of North Pole. My absolutely shitty red line made in Paint in about 3 seconds is what I suspect most probable move of potential Butcher!Lung which tries to escape and find the closest bigger human population to increase chance of it having a parahuman or whatever human if Butcher shard can jump towards 'normal' as my memory may also be off here.
As you see Greenland is the closest biggest land for potential escaping Butcher!Lung around. So this is why I mentioned Greenland calculations.
Although if this is the case that non-parahuman can become a Butcher, it will complicate things a bit more in case of what I call 'worst case scenario', but Nidhogg needs to move/teleport (it may be weakened compared to previous Butcher?) pretty much as quickly as possible towards south end of Greenland or towards most isolated north parts of Canada and taking into account Leviathan may happen in Canada again... I suspect they may avoid coastlines that far away to move towards more friendly parts of Canada. So while I think Canada direction is possible for escaping Butcher!Lung is Calamity Witch do indeed forces him to retreat, I would bet on Greenland being more probable direction. Rest I would say is too far or too isolated with too few humans to even bother with.
Although in A Champion in Earth Bet by sun tzu he presents an interesting idea that more durable breakers, brutes or changers may actually escape towards regions like South Pole (he doesn't mention North, but it may be logical as well here) to avoid punishment for their crimes, which is... pretty interesting worldbuilding. Now imagine those witnesses seeing that potential epic showdown between Nidhogg and Calamity Witch, Calamity Witch kills Butcher!Lung and suddenly one of those parahuman observers become a new Butcher
When I think about it, this sounds like a fun scenario to think about and possibly read later on in this quest
One reason to prefer the South pole is that you actually have land down there. The North pole is all water.
The thing that occurs to me as the best way to take out Nidhogg is for Samantha to land on his back and teleport the both of them to an uninhabited planet. He's so big now that he would have great difficulty hitting somebody on his back, and she's immune to his pyrokinesis. Now, his powers from the Worm wiki
- The ability to cause excruciating pain at range and increased durability (I).[3][7]
- Superhuman strength (I, III, VI, IX, XI, XIII).[7]
- The ability to see hearts, veins and arteries even through walls (II).[7]
- Short-range danger sense against physical attacks (III).[7]
- The ability to cause festering wounds (IV).[7]
- Short-ranged explosive teleport,[7] that can't move user into open water[8](VI).
- The ability to reshape unrefined matter into objects (VIII).[7]
- The ability to cause mindless rage at short range.[7]
- Immunity to pain (XII).[7]
- The ability to always hit with a ranged attack as long as the target is within range (XIV).[3][7]
I deleted the powers from Cherish, as that didn't happen in this timeline. Samantha should be completely immune to the explosion, rage, and Lung's pyrokinesis. There's a good chance she would be resistant to the pain attack, and the festering wounds only kicks in if he manages to hurt her. Even the fact that she's teleporting him rather than attacking him might keep his danger sense from kicking in as fast.
Of course, we could get a lot of back up if we let the Protectorate know that we can move him somewhere he won't have anybody to hurt and where there's nobody for the Butcher to jump to should he die, so they might be willing to bring in people who can subdue him long enough for Samantha or CW to activate their teleport spell. This would also be a great PR bonus for her team.