Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

You seemed to have come across your answer to @Racoras's questions: The low probability decreases interest in the mechanic's use. Five percent versus zero percent is not much of a difference mathematically, much less how it gets viewed by a player in a time-management quest. On paper, there's roughly two* ways to fix low-probability rolls 'fairer' and more appealing. One, make it easier to do a bunch of rolls at once. Making, just as an example, six rolls of a d100 where you need to get a 95 or above on one of them is a way that makes the difficulty feel easier. It's still at the whims of the dice, rather than true reliability, but the saying about throwing shit at a wall is something people take stock in. Two, up the odds. There's just no getting around that, again as an example, fifty percent is better than five percent. It's direct, it's simple, and it usually simplifies the problem down to the proper balance of the variable.

But in the context of the quest, they both have issues: Making a bunch of scan rolls could clash with the timeslot system. Running around and scanning a bunch of people would be a major undertaking competing with ongoing quests and major events, to say nothing of the narrative consequences. Meanwhile, making it more likley someone has a Linker Core wouldn't be faithful to Nanoha, and by itself invents a problem of 'cheesing' a bunch of mages via mass-scaning.

So long-winded explanations out of the way, here's my proposal of an actual solution: Take door number three and drop the mechanic. Rather than a roll, tie the gathering of magical potentiates into how much time the players put into it, an ongoing quest line. Getting 'rarer' and more specific characters can be tied to their own quest chain/Social Link of varying length. Which would mean you'd have to decide whether or not even more people have a Linker Core. Things like how strong the Linker Core is, whether or not they're a parahuman, any Rare Skills, etc. that's all stuff that's fine being put to the dice. It's just that there is a reason even Loot Boxes usually give you something on a bad roll: Something is usually better than nothing.

EDIT: I say two, there technically is the third option. The classic 'make the rare RNG-dropped item super-worth more'. But given the further rolls to things like Linker Core strength and things like device-less vs device-with magic, I don't really see a way to make that mechanic fit the quest. It'd mean every success gets super-powerful mages, which is wierd.
So, basically, add a quest-chain option that would guarantee getting at least a single linker core as a finale, probably with the character liked the most who is involved in that quest getting it? That could be an interesting option.

And as for how to measure the strength of the core - look at how well the players did the quest, how quickly they finished it, stuff like that. We're not in real life, we can afford to go into meta-gaming that doesn't make sense in-universe for a bit.
 
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Flight would be really hard to build into an arm. Telepathy would be out of the question.

Could we use more of Tim's build slots to expand the scope of the surgery. Hidden thrusters here, minor little brain surgery there?

I was thinking along the lines of if we voted up Heavy Arm, then could we combine the body reinforcment with some other upgrades? Rather than pulling Vista back in for surgery again and again.
 
So, basically, add a quest-chain option that would guarantee getting at least a single linker core as a finale, probably with the character liked the most who is involved in that quest getting it? That could be an interesting option.
To clarify: I'm splitting the proposed quest lines into two types. One for 'generic' and one for 'canon' characters.
If we wanted to get, say, Alexandria, as a Mage for our team, that'd take several continuous social/mage slots committed, maybe even two to three arcs worth. She's powerful, she's got her own extensive commitments, and she's a fan-favorite. She shouldn't be cheap, where time is literally our money. Assuming she's even got a Linker Core. Mouse Protector, by contrast of being a more minor character with looser prior commitments and a downside of her attitude being very negative and alienating to teammates, would be cheaper but still taking a bit of time.

If we wanted to get Joe Blow, that'd be the cheapest. He's a dude off the street, a new and original character introduced.

Of course, there's balancing the cost for all these against how many people SW thinks should be on our team. Individually voting for the actions of ten-plus Allies NPCs would be a nightmare.
 
What am I supposed to do if you guys get excited about a possibility for someone to have magic

Predetermine it, like happened with a few others? (I know the Adepts were sort've obvious in that its their ONLY narrative significance, but what was the rationale for Purity?)

Extremely greedy, but it is a literal answer :p (See later in post)

how it gets viewed by a player in a time-management quest

An insightful point to bring up. If you want an answer on discouragement or not, well... it hadn't really come up as a reason (people had other reasons to be reluctant on those I'd like to scan), but if you look at the actual actions thus far, you see a pattern.

Adepts and Privateers, we scanned a dozen or more people (and as the math would tend to, we did find a potentiate or two) in a single action.
Vista, we only scanned because we were already having a social action spent on her.

If incentivizing only scanning efficiently-large groups, or only bothering with characters we've already established enough with that we want to interact anyways, is your intention... then its working. But if you want to see scanning done more often, then the issue of how 5% plays into time management does seem to be a factor to consider.

making it more likley someone has a Linker Core wouldn't be faithful to Nanoha

My answer to this, is one that I always like to answer questions in creative writing about, but it seems a bit unpopular. (At least, a lot of the ideas I like tend towards Mary-Suedom , and that very phrase existing as a known term seems evidence of the usual opinion).

Namely, Selection Bias. Mathematically we may know that something is a one in a million chance, but hey thats still a dozen in New York and a Thousand in China, right? How fortunate* for us that they happened to cross our path. More specifically, the selection comes in the idea that.... yes, extraordinary people may be rare...but we tend to tell stories about extraordinary people right? Dozens of heros die in every endbringer fight, thousands of generic warriors die in Fantasy Army Battles and yet all the stories are about a handful of heroes taking out everything that crosses them. We tell stories only about the ones that /succeed/ , the ones that were the rare sort to be interesting, not all the rest.

In this context, where the person is selected for other reasons and only after gets checked for scans, rather than say "Adepts contact you /because/ they're potentiates" ... then plausibility comes back into play a bit sure. How'd we happen to befriend the lucky few , its not like the story needed them (but then, a story with Taylors Mage Buddies remaking the face of Capedom might be better than a story of Lone Mage Saves Worm? We have IAE for a reason after all).

ie the gathering of magical potentiates into how much time the players put into it, an ongoing quest line. Getting 'rarer' and more specific characters can be tied to their own quest chain/Social Link of varying length.

Mentioned above, but this is an interesting way to do it. After all, this has been said to specifically be a time-management quest. For all that our battle plans do have a major role (some combats seem decided entirely by them, win or lose, others modify dice rolls) , every battle has seemed to have a winning option, its just a matter of where we chose to win.

So if we're speaking our primary resource, arguably our only? major one in this quest to spend... shouldn't that justify the ideal payoff? Or I am biasedly misunderstanding how the challenge and direction of this quest works, for this narrow issue ? (I know I've pushed for favorable-changes in the past, like social actions, so I'm aware and open that my voice might not always be th
 
Could we use more of Tim's build slots to expand the scope of the surgery. Hidden thrusters here, minor little brain surgery there?

I was thinking along the lines of if we voted up Heavy Arm, then could we combine the body reinforcment with some other upgrades? Rather than pulling Vista back in for surgery again and again.
Well, that really depends on what else you want Tim to build next session. If you want her to get a telepathic radio or a flight pack, you'd need to vote to build it.

Oh, and vote not to give her Light Combat Arm, because she'd turn them down if she weren't interested in transhumanism.
 
I'm personally really inclined to go heavy. Maybe medium for strategic voting, but anything less than medium strikes me as boring,
 
Of course, there's balancing the cost for all these against how many people SW thinks should be on our team. Individually voting for the actions of ten-plus Allies NPCs would be a nightmare.
If incentivizing only scanning efficiently-large groups, or only bothering with characters we've already established enough with that we want to interact anyways, is your intention... then its working. But if you want to see scanning done more often, then the issue of how 5% plays into time management does seem to be a factor to consider.
Yeah, no, I'm not looking for that many NPCs to manage. I figure a good sized group would be five or six, and I won't say they all need to be mages. A mix of mages and parahumans would be very interesting and would open up all sorts of entertaining combinations.
Predetermine it, like happened with a few others? (I know the Adepts were sort've obvious in that its their ONLY narrative significance, but what was the rationale for Purity?)
Because I was introducing her in Arc 2, and I wanted to give you the chance to start building a team ASAP if that was your priority. Also because I felt sorry for Purity in canon and magic could have solved her major problem. She wanted to be a hero, but her powerset is way too distinctive for that to happen. If you had scanned her, she would have happily taken on a combat-related Template (probably Knight or Enhancement), and boom, there's no way she could be Purity, her powers are completely different.
If we wanted to get, say, Alexandria, as a Mage for our team, that'd take several continuous social/mage slots committed, maybe even two to three arcs worth. She's powerful, she's got her own extensive commitments, and she's a fan-favorite. She shouldn't be cheap, where time is literally our money. Assuming she's even got a Linker Core. Mouse Protector, by contrast of being a more minor character with looser prior commitments and a downside of her attitude being very negative and alienating to teammates, would be cheaper but still taking a bit of time.
Mentioned above, but this is an interesting way to do it. After all, this has been said to specifically be a time-management quest. For all that our battle plans do have a major role (some combats seem decided entirely by them, win or lose, others modify dice rolls) , every battle has seemed to have a winning option, its just a matter of where we chose to win.

So if we're speaking our primary resource, arguably our only? major one in this quest to spend... shouldn't that justify the ideal payoff? Or I am biasedly misunderstanding how the challenge and direction of this quest works, for this narrow issue ? (I know I've pushed for favorable-changes in the past, like social actions, so I'm aware and open that my voice might not always be th
I mean, I kind of did that already? Missy had a 30% chance of getting magic compared to 5%. One in three. Those really aren't bad odds. It wouldn't take much longer to get additional mages that way than it would "buying" them with time. And like I said above, Vista doesn't need magic to be an interesting character. Or are you saying she wouldn't have been interesting enough to spend time with earlier without the thought that you might get something material out of investing your time in her?

This is my own personal opinion, but I would be voting to spend time with somebody because he or she is someone I want to see more of in the story, not because I want to guarantee they get special powers. If that's the goal, to spend time with them just so they get a "deserved" Linker Core… Doesn't that feel like it cheapens the relationships you're making your character build? It's like becoming friends with somebody rich just because you want to benefit from their money.
 
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Favoring medium myself. Theres always power-armor to go on top, and noone likes Exhumans (theres a ways of difference between human-geth synthesis and like... Inspector Gadget or something)

And its mistaking the casuality a bit with the "spend time to get magic" issue. We spend time with Vista because she's interesting, and BECAUSE shes interesting she gets assured of magic powers /if thats what we want/ (it'd be a vote to scan or somesuch, much like the vote on arm determines her interest in transhumanism).

If anything, "spend time with them just so they get powers, cheapening the relationship" is what risks happening with 5% or 30% chance of having a core (and not always a strong one, if not using Always Late's other idea. A versus D pretty strongly impacts the choice of teaching/device/template after all).

If we decided we desperately needed an Infinite Enhancement character to avoid more trauma like Danny or Vista's injuries, we'd have to keep seeking out people interesting enough to be on the team (remember we're already having a bit of trouble including Tim in stuff) to keep rerolling the dice on it. This other way, we pick a character we want to hang with anyways and get to actually keep them around.

Put another way.... to ME at least, Kayleigh is interesting. I've voted to have social actions with Kayleigh, to further their friendship and Taylors general social circle. But for every random hangout we have with her..... its competing with Vista getting BOTH of "social hangout" and a powers-required "patrol together". Cape vs Magic doesn't have quite the same issue as Civilian vs Magic, but depending on their cape powers it might? (I don't know of any obviously-useless capes in Worm to make this analogy better).
 
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Yeah, no, I'm not looking for that many NPCs to manage. I figure a good sized group would be five or six, and I won't say they all need to be mages. A mix of mages and parahumans would be very interesting and would open up all sorts of entertaining combinations.

Because I was introducing her in Arc 2, and I wanted to give you the chance to start building a team ASAP if that was your priority. Also because I felt sorry for Purity in canon and magic could have solved her major problem. She wanted to be a hero, but her powerset is way too distinctive for that to happen. If you had scanned her, she would have happily taken on a combat-related Template (probably Knight or Enhancement), and boom, there's no way she could be Purity, her powers are completely different.


I mean, I kind of did that already? Missy had a 30% chance of getting magic compared to 5%. One in three. Those really aren't bad odds. It wouldn't take much longer to get additional mages that way than it would "buying" them with time. And like I said above, Vista doesn't need magic to be an interesting character. Or are you saying she wouldn't have been interesting enough to spend time with earlier without the thought that you might get something material out of investing your time in her?

This is my own personal opinion, but I would be voting to spend time with somebody because he or she is someone I want to see more of in the story, not because I want to guarantee they get special powers. If that's the goal, to spend time with them just so they get a "deserved" Linker Core… Doesn't that feel like it cheapens the relationships you're making your character build? It's like becoming friends with somebody rich just because you want to benefit from their money.
The problem here is that we as players have no incentive to socialise properly. Hell, I think that we only ever voted once to talk with someone who{s unrelated to our current goals, and that was Kaileigh.

We need a reason to do things, to actually build relationships, because, which I still consider to be the main problem here, we have way too much important shit to do. As a result, any cool but unimportant options will get ignored/ranted at if there's no reward, as we are always better off doing something else, or fixing some of our older mishaps, or any of the other dozens of things we ought to be doing.
 
Favoring medium myself. Theres always power-armor to go on top, and noone likes Exhumans (theres a ways of difference between human-geth synthesis and like... Inspector Gadget or something)

And its mistaking the casuality a bit with the "spend time to get magic" issue. We spend time with Vista because she's interesting, and BECAUSE shes interesting she gets assured of magic powers /if thats what we want/ (it'd be a vote to scan or somesuch, much like the vote on arm determines her interest in transhumanism).

If anything, "spend time with them just so they get powers, cheapening the relationship" is what risks happening with 5% or 30% chance of having a core (and not always a strong one, if not using Always Late's other idea. A versus D pretty strongly impacts the choice of teaching/device/template after all).

If we decided we desperately needed an Infinite Enhancement character to avoid more trauma like Danny or Vista's injuries, we'd have to keep seeking out people interesting enough to be on the team (remember we're already having a bit of trouble including Tim in stuff) to keep rerolling the dice on it. This other way, we pick a character we want to hang with anyways and get to actually keep them around.

Put another way.... to ME at least, Kayleigh is interesting. I've voted to have social actions with Kayleigh, to further their friendship and Taylors general social circle. But for every random hangout we have with her..... its competing with Vista getting BOTH of "social hangout" and a powers-required "patrol together". Cape vs Magic doesn't have quite the same issue as Civilian vs Magic, but depending on their cape powers it might? (I don't know of any obviously-useless capes in Worm to make this analogy better).
Some of this is still striking me as… I know there's a better word for it, but right now all my brain's coming up with is "manipulative". I'm going to have to think on it.

I don't understand your Kayleigh vs Vista analogy. Why are you thinking that you need to do both activities with Vista? Or are you saying that you could do either social or patrol with Vista while you can only do social with Kayleigh?

Oh, and @Racoras? Don't get too down about the hanging out with Kayleigh and school friends stuff. There's a bonus social event coming up June 19th that makes that a guarantee.
The problem here is that we as players have no incentive to socialise properly. Hell, I think that we only ever voted once to talk with someone who{s unrelated to our current goals, and that was Kaileigh.

We need a reason to do things, to actually build relationships, because, which I still consider to be the main problem here, we have way too much important shit to do. As a result, any cool but unimportant options will get ignored/ranted at if there's no reward, as we are always better off doing something else, or fixing some of our older mishaps, or any of the other dozens of things we ought to be doing.
This week, specifically Device-ing Dragon, should clear out the last of the backlog of social-related "important shit" that was getting pushed to the side the last few arcs. Even the Vista world tour and giving her an arm is something you guys decided to do that hadn't been brought up before.

And just so everyone knows, I officially decided last week(? maybe week before) that Arc 11 is going to be pure social. I might throw a couple of yellow special events in there, but that'll be the extent of the fires you need to put out.
 
I mean, I kind of did that already? Missy had a 30% chance of getting magic compared to 5%. One in three. Those really aren't bad odds. It wouldn't take much longer to get additional mages that way than it would "buying" them with time. And like I said above, Vista doesn't need magic to be an interesting character. Or are you saying she wouldn't have been interesting enough to spend time with earlier without the thought that you might get something material out of investing your time in her?
1. A guaranteed something, even if it's a small something, is always better than nothing IMO. I know that most people disagree with that though, otherwise casinos wouldn't be a thing.
2. No, I'm not saying Vista needed to be a mage to be an interesting character. It's just that, like you said, if it was at the front of everyone's mind getting Vista as a mage would be unlikely, the arguments over scanning would not have been as frequent or intense.
3. As for a material gain...
This is my own personal opinion, but I would be voting to spend time with somebody because he or she is someone I want to see more of in the story, not because I want to guarantee they get special powers. If that's the goal, to spend time with them just so they get a "deserved" Linker Core… Doesn't that feel like it cheapens the relationships you're making your character build? It's like becoming friends with somebody rich just because you want to benefit from their money.
The problem here is that we as players have no incentive to socialise properly. Hell, I think that we only ever voted once to talk with someone who{s unrelated to our current goals, and that was Kaileigh.

We need a reason to do things, to actually build relationships, because, which I still consider to be the main problem here, we have way too much important shit to do. As a result, any cool but unimportant options will get ignored/ranted at if there's no reward, as we are always better off doing something else, or fixing some of our older mishaps, or any of the other dozens of things we ought to be doing.
DestinyPlayer hit the nail on the head. Vista would have been a popular choice among the 'fluffy' social interactions, but the 'crunch' of the old multiple quest lines would have meant she'd have utterly dropped off the board unless there was also 'tactical' benefit to involve her. AKA: She's a bullshit powerful cape, let's bring her along.

If you're looking to have the players go for more fluffy 'I want to see more of this character' choices, then all the stuff that's been previously said about the time slots and quests comes back to the forefront, with more weight to them. Let me make a bit of an analogy here: It may be cheap shallow to choose relationships based on money, but when the friends you have directly impacts your ability to pay your monthly bills? Your primary criteria becomes meeting those expenses.

EDIT: Uh... guess you ninja'd me.
 
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Also, about possibly "cheapening" the relationship. Personally I wouldn't choose Kaileigh even if she was guaranteed to have a linker core if we spent time with her. We're talking about "We found an interesting person, let's grind her soc stats a bit so that we can trigger her as a mage so that we can spend more time with her!". And, well, so far the only people who are mages are either people who are out of our reach, or people we simply don't care about enough.

Also, I'm not still hung up on her "betraying" us. I just find Kaileigh boring as a character, even for fluffy interactions.
 
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I'm rather leery of turning a thirteen year old into a cyborg supersoldier. I mean, the Nanoha side of things (from what I've gathered) wouldn't have too much of an issue with it but the Worm side (and the real world's understandings of human development) would probably object. I think Missy wouldn't be opposed to the idea, but honestly Tim and Dragon should both veto it as responsible adults.
 
If the problem with the upper tier arms is weight couldn't we shove a gravitational lift to help with that?

Hell, make it also the main tool of her new arm and give her the option to attach a module on her back with a second generator for rainy days.

So in resume:
  • A combat grade arm with a gravitational lift with a medium range pull/push mode.
  • Attachable exoskeleton with supplementary generator; it extends the range of the repulsor and enable short range flight.
Shame that Missy doesn't get magic but oh well, I'm still holding out hope for Berserkelot!Kayleigh.
 
If the problem with the upper tier arms is weight couldn't we shove a gravitational lift to help with that?
Eh, Doomfist gets by without one. Besides, having a large, heavy mass of metal screaming at someone's face at mach 2 is kinda the point. :V
Berserkelot!Kayleigh.
... now you've gone and made me hope A Knight Does Not Die With Empty Hands is a Rare Skill. Do you have any idea how much military hardware Alexandria can get us?
 
Actually a 7+ on a d10 is a 40% chance (7, 8, 9, 10 = success, assuming that 0 isn't on the dice) so Silently was being even more generous than we thought. (Albeit possibly by accident...)

So yeah, just bad luck guys...
 
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