[X] Plan: Elite Scouts, Filling out the Companies, and Paying back the Deathwatch
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Loyalty is its own Reward (A Traitor Legion Chapter Master Quest)
- Thread starter ThunderOwl
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Honestly, the one thing I find to be the most annoying in this whole debate, is the unspoken assumption that assassinations are guaranteed to work as long as we can sneak good, and that once they work they instantly win the engagement or at least cripple the enemy. It may be frustration, from more then just this quest, speakinng but I find that people severely overhype stealth, especially stealth during an ongoing battle.
And why would it not? It's a dice based game. We have a good stealth pool. We have a very good chance of success. Why would a 1st company be better? They would have a lesser dice pool to work with. Wouldn't the argument be that a veteran first company would be less likely to succeed in a pitched battle than a 10th company in a hit and run engagement?
Frankly, I'm not sure why people are so confident that a veteran first company would be that much more effective than a veteran scout. It seems to be an assumption based on a preferance in fighting style.
The big difference is, to me at least, that we can avoid assassinations if we chose to. We can not avoid pitched battles. No matter what our preferred tactics are, the enemy gets a say too and most of them would chose some form of a pitched battle. And if we fail an assassination, we would lose the troops send on assassination but there is still going to be a pitched battle afterwards. If we lose the pitched battle, we are far from being guaranteed to be able to salvage it with assassination.
EDIT: One more thing. Succeeding at an assassination does not actually guarantee that there is not going to be a pitched battle afterwards OR that the enemy would be so crippled by the loss of assassinated target that the pitched battle would be easy. See Word Bearers last turn as an example of the foe whose chain of command was sturdy enough to pull an organised retreat despite losing both top links in said chain.
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Adrian XXIV
Average User, from Poland
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Obviously, there are does, for which neither assassination nor pitched battle will "work" *points at Alpha Legion*
And? That's what the nine other companies, who will eventually have integrated terminator support, are for. Cripple the enemy so that hey can't fight back then send the standard companies to finish the job. That kinda what a veteran first company does anyway; takes the brunt of the assault so that the other companies can charge in the behind them. This is just a different way of accomplishing the same task.
And why would it be just one assassination? There are are a hundred guys in the company, there will be more then one death on the enemy side.
Yes, well the Alpha legion are built different aren't they. Or they use an outsized reputation, mixed with lies, to make those in the know believe they cannot be stopped. Not completely sure.
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We can go to Smilnay or milan for them that is no probleem
That is all well and good, but it is based on presuming the following is true:
1. We have the veterans to create termunator squads in tegular companies
2. Assassinations are possible and they succeed.
3. Those successes cripple the enemy to the point regular companies can destroy them easily.
None of those 3 points is a guarantee. For example, the most likely next campaign we are going on is against the Eyes of the Mutator. Let's see how those points apply there:
1 Is out. We do not have veterans to stuffen regular companies, even before considering our lack of terminator armor.
2. Is dubious. First battles would be in space, and our marines are most likely to involved in boarding/ counterboarding actions. Assuming we secure the orbit, we could insert strike teams to try and assassinate the enemy leaders, but said teams would be operating behind enemy lines, with no previous knowledge of terrain and against the foe extremly likely to cheat with Sorcery. Is it possible that they achieve some successes? Yes. Are they going to pay for that in lives? Very likely. Which leads us directly to
3. Is dubious. We don't know much about Eyes of the Mutator and their internal structure and overall integrity, but unless we kill their head honcho, a guy very likely to be a match for Severus with escort comparable to out Honour Guard, any disruptions would be temporary. The foe would be weakened, but not crippled and we would still have to contend with pitch battles against hostile Astartes in entrenched positions. Something extremly likely to bleed any fotce we send at it white.
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- Location
- Lowton
[X] Plan: Conventional Veteran Company, Filling out the Companies, and Paying back the Deathwatch
- Location
- Asia
[X] Plan: Elite Scouts, Filling out the Companies, and Paying back the Deathwatch
- Location
- Texas
Already voted dude. Check the count.
Ahh yeah see it now overlooked it
[X] Plan: Elite Scouts, Filling out the Companies, and Paying back the Deathwatch
- Location
- Texas
Wait! Thanks to ambiguous wording by the QM. It may be possible for our terminators to stealth…
You thought that was in doubt?
Just an idea, but should we endorse a Schola Progenium for our homeworld? It'd be good for us since we get some connections with more groups within the sector, plus anyone who fails the space marine implantation process but survived can be shuffled there. Also like, it woule keep our serfs and the local PDF at elite tier in the event of 50% of them dying in battle.
1: we don't have terminator armor anyways. So 1st company would be underpowered when doing their jobs. Especially when targeting a fortress or boarding. That's just a problem we will have to suffer for a while.
2 that's why we send the veterans. They are good enough to pull such a maneuver off. Again, one hundred guy running around causing mayhem will not just result in a few assassinations. The whole point is to wage a mass terror campaign. As for the enemies sorcery, if you think, for a second, that a first company going up against a group of prepared chaos sorcerers in open battle is a less dangerous tactic, I have a bridge to sell you.
3 all of those points apply just as well to an elite first company and I think you are underestimating our stealthiness and overestimating the comparative survivability of a first company to a 10 company. I say this because of the average skill value of our chapter. To put it bluntly, we aren't going to lose less marines by sending in a veteran first company. If anything we might lose more given that we would be playing against our strengths.
Well, some planets may or may not have standardized educational systems. Feral worlders for example would probably have oral learning, or the rare books if they're at the medieval tech level. Hive worlds could range vastly from being very dump to "rich white boy inna private college".
But no, what I'm revering to is the Schola Progenium, the place rhat trains Commissars, Stormtroopers Drill Abots and other types of officers.
So if we had native more Schola Progenium go out there, and they do really well, that would reflect really well on us depending on how much we're involved in their education. Sure a drill abot is okay at his job, but having a marine demi-god thats several centuries years old train kids would be a very high honor.
Edit: another thing i want to add. Should we or should we not add mote augments. Implants, and cybernetics to more of our marines? Nothing invasive mind you. Maybe something like a Mind Impulse Unit (MIU, weapons variant) for our marines, like if a motherfucker wanted to go fill sword and board, but still wants a ranged option in the middle of battle he could have a shoulder mounted hellpistol to fuck someone up who thinks they're hot shit. Or maybe give Sevator (fleet guy) a best quality MIU implant to better interface with his command throne during fleet engagements.
Edit #2: Oh yeah! Another thing I wanted to bring up are our space wizards. Ones' a technomancer and another is a biomancer. Could the technomancer help our tech marines (more BP a turn), and could the biomancer work with our apothicaries to increase the chance of geneseed implantation (+5% chance per marine or something)? You know how space marine recruits go from 10,000 kids to like a hand full of marines at the end of their trials? Maybe we could bump the numbers?
Or no fuck it, those Biomancers coule pump up our serfs and PDF into buff men and tomboys. Make em Trained or Elite their through sheer levels of biological augmentations.
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I keep saying this just go to Smilnay or milan for the armor this is a weak excuse
And how many favors and hoops do you think we will need to jump through in order to build a decent stock? That said, you are correct. It's a fixable problem. But this was in response to someone else saying that an elite tenth was worse because we won't have enough terminator armor for the other companies. I was just pointing out that this was equally a problem for the veteran first option.