The organization in charge of the Schola Progenium is the Ecclesiarchy, you don't have the authority to open one.
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Loyalty is its own Reward (A Traitor Legion Chapter Master Quest)
- Thread starter ThunderOwl
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If your ok with letting the Ecclesiarchy have more influence on our homeworld then sure, the Schola are all run by Missionaries and I highly doubt the local Ecclesiarchy would be ok with us trying to change that.
1. True but the open combat focused elite company would by definition be better at open combat that a stealth focused one.
2. Terror campaign? Against enemy Astartes? It might not be useless but we must not overestimate the effects either.
As for potential effectiveness in open battle vs ambushes, the thing you are missing is concentration of force. If we send our men on hit and run attacks they would be operating in small groups because the larger a force is, the easier it is to detect and being detected behind enemy lines is pretty much guaranteed death. Whereas, if we use them for an assault we would be free to provide as much support as we can. Librarians to blunt the sorcery, vehicles and other companies for fire support and extra numbers etc. So, while yes, sorcerers in prepared positions will put up tougher fight then sorcerers caught unawares, we would be able to bring both counters and concentration of force impossible for a group of infiltrators. And that, once again, assiming stealth works, because should it fail, individual squads, even made of veterans, would struggle to do much against a sorcerer and their retinue.
3. Again, the key difference between spreading the elites on assassination missions vs using them for an assault is the matter of concentration of force and availability of support from other assets. We are not going to just toss our veterans at the entrenched enemy and tell them to deal with it. We will give them as much support as we can. Meanwhile, elite scouts are going to be sneaking around with no, or at least much less support, because said suppot would be much more difficult to provide without compromising stealth.
Heck! Well what about my other ideas? Could we buy/make augmentations that add onto the space marines, instead of replacing something like a mechanical limb when they have a perfectly good one? Like say, give marines MIU's for shoulder mounted weapoms, MIU's for vehicles and space ships, Psi-booster's for our psykers. Those are the less invasive and redundant ones i can think of.
What about manufacturing or buying implants to arm our serfs? Could our biomancer improve our serfs to peak human form? Or maybe increase the survival offs of recruits? (Instead of 100,000 kids needed to make a few marines, a biomancer ensures less people die and the geneseed implantations are more successful.)
Edit: @Timewarriors yeah thunderowl just told me. I totally forgot the Shchola was ran by the church. Maybe we could instead bump up the local poulation numbers (plentiful food, more living quarters, marginally better healthcare) and "ask" the local planetary govenor if they would like to set up a larger PDF for Imperial Guard recruitment.
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There is nothing wrong with favor debt they would just asked us to do a few tasks and yes a elite 10th would be worse
We would be going over spec in one area and Weaken the rest when we need to heavy assault something our gene line where shock troops with Terror tactics that could stealth
We would be kneecaping ourselves if we ignore that especially when we are planning a future campaign where we have to board counterboard and take out hard points
Now before you we would still have Terminators here is the probleem there strenght would be diluted being divided like that trough the companies instead of a single hard hammer we saw this when we helped the Wardens once and much we lost there
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I mean I'll be honest I have no issue with working closer with the Ecclesiarchy I just don't believe our chapter commands would be ok with that IC.
All marines can sneak +termies can teleport
Also @ThunderOwl Vanguard Scouts are our melee specialist veterans right? Because I have this image in my mind of them being cameleonine cloked close quaters beasts that appear out of thin air, butcher the enemy and vanish without a trace
For all the MIU´s, I might added as an option, but it will be expensive. The psy-boosters the Librarians from Codicier and upwards have psychic hoods, which do the same thing and are better and less invasive.
As for the serfs upgrades, you can assume that if a chapter has a serf that needs implants to do their work, they´ll have them. The whole biomancer upgrading serfs and candidates will get you a revolt/serious problems of recruitment. Take into account that your own serfs are already spooked by the Librarians just being there, imagine how they are going to take biomancers messing with their bodies, also, will need to check how biomancy works, but I don´t recall It can do permanent improvements like that without serious backlash
Yep, yes they are.
Biomancy - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum
I know the black carapace allows them to connect to their armor, but i dont recall it ever doing anything for vehicles, ever. The should mounted weapon point you brought up is valid. If the weapon is connected on the shoulder, can the marine still control it through the black carapace?
Lexicanum says it does, referencing Imperial Armor part 2. I'll find my book and double check.
EDIT
IA part 2 page 14 last two sentences under "rites of battle" column. Custodian here refers to the vehicle's crew.
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1 I know. I was never arguing that 10th would be better the 1st at open battle. I was pointing out all the benefits that an elite scout would provide as opposed to a 1st company. The reason I'm arguing so hard here is that I keep seeing people saying that a 10th is less valuable.
It's not. It will never be as good at direct assault, but we would be using different tactics anyways.
2 terror campaigns might have been the wrong word. Long term sabotage campaign would be better. That being said, since your argument is that the 10th can't do the thing they are designed to do and that the 1st can do the thing they are designed to do, I will again point you to our chapter stats. Those are why I say that a 10th is better.
3 force concentration is a double edged sword. It can be good. But it's hardly the only tactic that works and when it backfires a whole company gets wiped out. That won't happen for a 10th because by their very design they are dispersed. Yes that means they can't do a single powerful assault as well, but you can say the reverse for 1st company; they will never be able to surprise an enemy as well. A 1st company would work fine in its roll, even with an unoptimized stat spread. I just think that we would do better with a 10th.
4 if you want to see a chapter that completely forgoes heavy assault tactics in favor of what an elite 10th would look like. I would recommend looking at the raptors chapter. Stoping Ork waaghs with only a single squad of stealth operatives is what they do.
Here is something people don't seem to bring up, reconnaissance. War is more than "who has bigger gun and more people.", knowledge is a big part. What troops do the enemy have? What can easily counter them? What are their weaknesses? Answers to these questions can help fight a campaign much easier. Another is logistics, sure we and our enemies are killing machines..., and armies still need fuel (either literal for robots or edibles for living creatures), need repairs to their equipment and bullets in their weapons, and fuel in their tanks. Sabotaging these things can put a damper on the enemy's fighting capabilities. We had to deal with these tactics firsthand during the Lezo campaign. Those saboteurs cost us a lot, and the assassins too, though to a lesser degree due to rolls. And there were just 4 of them, with 2 being primarily saboteurs and the other two assassins. Imagine having 2 or 3 squads of dual-purpose infiltrators. Making them veterans and slap on the night lord bonus, and you got some very powerful infiltrators on your hands.
Look I'm not saying "10th company rules, 1st company drools." But just to point out this isn't a bad option, as in the words of the man who wrote a book about war:
"Be so subtle that you are invisible. Be so mysterious that you are intangible. Then you will control your rivals' fate."- Tsun Su said that.
Look I'm not saying "10th company rules, 1st company drools." But just to point out this isn't a bad option, as in the words of the man who wrote a book about war:
"Be so subtle that you are invisible. Be so mysterious that you are intangible. Then you will control your rivals' fate."- Tsun Su said that.
1. The issue is that there is no way for us to avoid having to do direct assaults. We can reduce the times we have to do it, we can soften the enemy prior to doing so, but ultimately there would be times direct assault ends up our only option. And while regulars companies can do direct assaults they would take a lot of losses. At the same time those regular companies can also do stealth with rhe 1st taking tbe heaviest fighting. Not to mention that taking elite 1st would still leave us 10th for a dedicated better-then- regular (if not as good as elite 10th) unit while taking elite 10th leave us with no elite hammer, making us extremly dependand on the stealth.
2. Long term sabotage will not win us the campaign, not without a direct assault following it up. It may soften the enemy,but you do not win wars with just sabotage.
3. By spreading our elites out you risk them being defeated in detail. Stealth is used to prevent it, but should it fail, well, goodbye vets. And yes, first will not be able to surprise, but that is not what they are for. They are th hammer that smashes the enemy after other companies, like 10th softened them up via stealth.
4. So I looked up the Raptors and the thing that struck me most is that they are described as losing their original homeworld to a Black Crusade, then spending to millenia recovering from an unspecified catastrophy and then having 400 strong taskforce rendered combat inefficient in 2 years of Badab war. Hardly a great endorcement of such tactics against hostile Astartes.
The probleem is our 10th is already good what it does and what we use it for but we dont have a heavy assault element what we need and you and others want to ignore in favor over go overspec in one element
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Would all of you please stop? This what I meant earlier, you're all still turning in circles with your arguments, and yet nothing has come of it at all. Absolutely nothing beyond you wasting your time. You will not agree with eachover. That is fine, and a fact of life. Arguing all day and night will not convince the other party that you're right, nor will it convince anyone else to vote for the option you want. No one will bother reading every single bit of argumentation you people have laid off in the last few thread pages.
You've all made your points, now is the time to develop some self-awareness, and stop flooding the thread with more inane chatter.
Thank you.
You've all made your points, now is the time to develop some self-awareness, and stop flooding the thread with more inane chatter.
Thank you.
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But... But... Someone is wrong on the internet!
That's obvious, lol. I've just been stuck in that same sort of mindset of "Grug no agree with you, Grug must beat dead horse with club as hard as Grug can". I personally hate seeing other people fall into that same trap.
To be very pedantic, the argument could be made that the point is not to convince the guy you are debating with as much as it is to convince the other people to vote for your prefered option, so it is not nessecarily pointless. But I can see how it gets annoying for yet other people.
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So can we ask them at our current relationship or does that require more positive relationships level?
There is one
We hunted de Wiert there. The planet with the Japanese sounding name
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We're sorry, the secrets of the Mechanicus and the Biologis are locked behind the power of the cyborgs that have giant machines that can crush our watch fortress underfoot.
This isn't a fixfic man. We are a minor tooth of a cog in the ever breaking down machine that is the Imperium of Mankind. Talking about spreading unauthorized knowledge is a good way to get armies of Skitarii knights and titans blowing up our planet.