Can Lilly remove Valerie's ethos? Lilly has far more soul manipulation abilities than is normal and was able to prevent Zach from getting an ethos. Literally removing an ethos seems like it might be such a harsh punishment the Watch might take it in lieu of death, and given her power it might be necessary anyway given her being so dangerous even without the posession.
It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
It can be both. But the math checks out. Eevie had 3839 xp, since it capped at 5999 xp. That means if you subtract 2160 xp, which Eevie took, from 7591 them you're left with 5431 xp.
I imagine Eevie couldn't use it to level because she is on deaths door.
Slyvena
I don't like pie.
- Location
- Pie Shop
Valerie is a definite yes. You could in fact 'let her be executed' after having forged a Soul-Bond. Tinkering with her power is a solid '???' on the possibility scale, you have no idea how easy or hard such a thing would be.
Micah is an uncertain 'probably no'. You have his quintessence, but not in the form it held in life. Forming a Soul-Bond with him now would simply allow you to heal damage someone did to his soul, not regenerate his body and consciousness.
You could certainly use {Subversion} over extended periods of time to eventually render an Ethos non-functional. Rearranging it however is far beyond your current scope.
As a specific example: Valerie was given a roll to strafe her line of sight across your whole family, her massive physical trauma applied a large malus to that roll causing it to fail. So yes, things could have been much worse.
They'll make a reappearance, mostly just didn't find the time for it.
[Tower] could do something like that one day, you lack the deftness and skill for it right now. Evie could do it right now if you vote in an AC on it. But she chose to let it leak out unintegrated because it would be one more strain on her back to channel it elsewhere now; same reason she didn't expand, too dangerous in her current condition.
It was from decohereing Aboleath btw. He hurt her in ways she didn't think possible, he would have won if he hadn't suddenly had the carpet pulled out from under him mid-fight when you deanchored him from Valerie.
This would be a straight up {{Medium Reward, Huge Risk}} scenario. Worst case scenarios are things like a dead Ethos that can never grow.
I'm guessing Aboleath normally wouldn't dare mess with Evacliel, but since Evie is so young and doesnt have her memories, she doesnt have the experience she would normally have.
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
If anything the Attuned Locust holds the key to bringing her back.
Either a minor or major link to have the locust build a new body.
Or the power needs an upgrade for it to be capable of bringing back those that Lilly had a link to.
Like a giant womb tree, a tree of reincarnation.
Another consideration is that Lily used Recalled Genesis to potentially reconstruct the body, stores it in the tree, and there the connection is stored. Assuming the domain is used as well.
Third would be leveling tower and making him Lilly's first entity.
Either a minor or major link to have the locust build a new body.
Or the power needs an upgrade for it to be capable of bringing back those that Lilly had a link to.
Like a giant womb tree, a tree of reincarnation.
Another consideration is that Lily used Recalled Genesis to potentially reconstruct the body, stores it in the tree, and there the connection is stored. Assuming the domain is used as well.
Third would be leveling tower and making him Lilly's first entity.
I don't have a solution, but I figured that this is something that should be taken into account.
Though a head with an identifiable face rolling around might make such a thing difficult.
So just how many people can really identify Valerie? It seems like only her family really could, provided she killed all the other guards who crossed her path. Which would mean Lilly could maybe come up with some sort of lie about killing the girl who did all those horrible things, and this other girl that's now with her is just another stray like Myah.
Though a head with an identifiable face rolling around might make such a thing difficult.
In this setting, with pre- and postcogs, abilities to break fate over the knee, determine truths and lies and outright pull information out of thin air, I think lying would be very dangerous. We have very high level foes and this lie could be easily used later by one of them to alienate Captain Martin. Remember, one of big reasons he follows us is because he sees us as a good person, one better than him.
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Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
Lilly could easily change what Valerie looks like by an application of either domain, her essence control, or subversion. If not a combination of the 3.
- Location
- Who Knows Where
I'm still working so I won't be voting just yet, but I wanted to say a couple things:
Arguing on behalf of Valerie might seem like a waste of time and counter to Lilly's interests, if it wasn't for the fact that Captain Martin's loyalty is contingent on Lilly's righteousness. It would help Lilly's character in his eyes to argue for benefit of doubt and investigating Aboleath's influence before taking action, now that Valerie isn't a threat.
The knot in the issue here is Valerie's killing of Legle and maybe other Watchmen, but some Affective Radiance should hopefully smooth things over.
Coming to the next point. Immediately weaponising Affective Radiance is a potent thing.
Except Captain Martin is leery of Flow users, and Lilly being like "hippity hoppity, your free will is now my property" might not be in line with Aurora's parameters for it, leading to Divergence or even Inversion if Lilly uses it as a crutch without trying normal human empathy and persuasion.
Aurora appears to prioritise protecting humanity, so opening with removing free will, even against enemies, is a sketchy move. More importantly, it's close to how Aboleath and Valerie were operating. Which is bad.
The question of Evie: I'm inclined to let her rest, possibly try pinging {The Ladder} for a way to help her recover.
Taking down Aboleath clearly wasn't easy. If this situation is anything to go by, Lilly will need Evie's help again in the future, so risking her now after everything she's done seems callous, even cruel.
In terms of help, The Watch might have people capable of assisting Lilly with the Silas family's recovery, and Myah might be able to pitch in too.
The knot in the issue here is Valerie's killing of Legle and maybe other Watchmen, but some Affective Radiance should hopefully smooth things over.
Coming to the next point. Immediately weaponising Affective Radiance is a potent thing.
Except Captain Martin is leery of Flow users, and Lilly being like "hippity hoppity, your free will is now my property" might not be in line with Aurora's parameters for it, leading to Divergence or even Inversion if Lilly uses it as a crutch without trying normal human empathy and persuasion.
Aurora appears to prioritise protecting humanity, so opening with removing free will, even against enemies, is a sketchy move. More importantly, it's close to how Aboleath and Valerie were operating. Which is bad.
The question of Evie: I'm inclined to let her rest, possibly try pinging {The Ladder} for a way to help her recover.
Taking down Aboleath clearly wasn't easy. If this situation is anything to go by, Lilly will need Evie's help again in the future, so risking her now after everything she's done seems callous, even cruel.
In terms of help, The Watch might have people capable of assisting Lilly with the Silas family's recovery, and Myah might be able to pitch in too.
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Solarstream
It's all in the cards
- Location
- Zombie World
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [CaT] Cautious and restrained. To deny others their own Will strayed to close to being a hypocrite, I would be careful and measured.
[X] [WaL] I told Evie to sleep. I wouldn't let her kill herself for me.
[X] [TowCA] Leave the door closed, for now.
[X] [TNA] Valerie called me 'Bloomling', like it meant something. The hillock out west, the secret of my name. I have already put it off too long.
[X] [TNA] Captain Martin had something he wanted me to do that he felt was important even after discovering the truth about me. I should follow up on that.
[X] [TMo] I decided I would take a risk with the Madam. It didn't feel right to turn her away.
[X] [WaL] I told Evie to sleep. I wouldn't let her kill herself for me.
[X] [TowCA] Leave the door closed, for now.
[X] [TNA] Valerie called me 'Bloomling', like it meant something. The hillock out west, the secret of my name. I have already put it off too long.
[X] [TNA] Captain Martin had something he wanted me to do that he felt was important even after discovering the truth about me. I should follow up on that.
[X] [TMo] I decided I would take a risk with the Madam. It didn't feel right to turn her away.
Half Moon
In the end, there is no end.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[x] [TNA] Valerie called me 'Bloomling', like it meant something. The hillock out west, the secret of my name. I have already put it off too long.
[x] [TNA] Tell Zach he is going to awaken to an Ethos in eleven days. Try to spend time averting him from tragedy.
[x] [CaT] I will use it only with permission, or if I have no other choice.
[x] [CaT] Those who do evil, forfeit their right to autonomy. Against adversaries, it would simply be another weapon in my hand.
[x] [CaT] A subtle hand. Steering but never overriding. I would use it frequently, but to encourage, not control.
[x] [WaL] I told Evie to sleep. I wouldn't let her kill herself for me.
Our family is nice and all, but I like Evie better.
[x] [TMo] I decided I would take a risk with the Madam. It didn't feel right to turn her away.
[x] [MRL] Perfect Seedling
(Rest State, Zach)
[x] [MnM]Ask her what she thinks.
[x] [TNA] Tell Zach he is going to awaken to an Ethos in eleven days. Try to spend time averting him from tragedy.
[x] [CaT] I will use it only with permission, or if I have no other choice.
[x] [CaT] Those who do evil, forfeit their right to autonomy. Against adversaries, it would simply be another weapon in my hand.
[x] [CaT] A subtle hand. Steering but never overriding. I would use it frequently, but to encourage, not control.
[x] [WaL] I told Evie to sleep. I wouldn't let her kill herself for me.
Our family is nice and all, but I like Evie better.
[x] [TMo] I decided I would take a risk with the Madam. It didn't feel right to turn her away.
[x] [MRL] Perfect Seedling
(Rest State, Zach)
[x] [MnM]Ask her what she thinks.
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
Alongside being people's moral guide, it's explicit that swaying enemies to your side is what [Shine, my Gentle Heart] is for. If you trust the power's initial pitch. Take your small flickering candle of love; set the world ablaze.
Is Lilly morally righteous? I trust Lilly to use the power responsibly and appropriately, thus I'm willing to let her go full out with it.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Ah, that's unfortunate. In that case I think Soul-Bonding Zach is the way to go, since that lets him use [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock] and thus {Rest State} at maximum efficiency, rather than having to grow it on his own:
If Zach still inverts, even with [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock] backing him up then at the very least we'll also get to use an Inverted Ethos through him.
I don't think that really fits with what Aurora herself told us about her outlook:
This is the same trinity of beliefs that also unlocked [Shine My Gentle Heart] for us: Charity, Purity and Courage. Constantly controlling the emotions of people who've deliberately chosen to do evil does not seem like it's conducive to Purity. We should be much more concerned with the victims of people like Waters than trying to mindcontrol him to be "good" (as long as we keep up the emotional manipulation)
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
I definitely think that Lilly should argue for putting off Valerie's judgment until more is learned of her situation. We just don't have enough information right now to determine how culpable she is.
- Location
- Europe
Personally, I think that the subtle hand approach is the one that most fit the description we received before choosing that ethos, which is probably a hint on how that should be used.
And we will probably have to use it relatively often considering the warning on not having a social ethos we have received before.
And we will probably have to use it relatively often considering the warning on not having a social ethos we have received before.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Oh, also: the way that Aurora phrased why she couldn't help Jeremy makes it sound like the Black Lung could be the explicit work of another Deific entity, seeing how her will in the matter was opposed.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Alright, I'll make formal proposals for two plans: the first one is most of the questions we're voting on and stresses that we finish up things that are location-sensitive and start our escape from Narisell before our family draws more attention
[X] Plan: Finish up loose ends and let's get this show on the road
- [X] [TLatS] Valerie is neutralised for now and there is no threat from her while she resides in Petal, argue that any decision on her life or death should be deferred until her original mindstate has been recovered and her culpability can be determined more clearly.
- [X] [CaT] A subtle hand. Steering but never overriding. I would use it frequently, but to encourage, not control.
-- [X] [CaT] Use liberally in moments of danger and against opponents and conservatively with our friends and family, avoid long-term use
- [X] [WaL] Use a Minor Relations link to borrow use of {Hybrid Siphon} while Evie otherwise rests
- [X] [TNA] Valerie called me 'Bloomling', like it meant something. The hillock out west, the secret of my name. I have already put it off too long.
- [X] [TNA] Tell Zach he is going to awaken to an Ethos in eleven days. Try to spend time averting him from tragedy.
- [X] [TNA] Captain Martin had something he wanted me to do that he felt was important even after discovering the truth about me. I should follow up on that.
- [X] [TMo] I decided I would take a risk with the Madam. It didn't feel right to turn her away.
- [X] [MnM] If she wants to, Myah is part of the family now
- [X] [MRL] Soul-Bond
-- [X] [MRL] Establish a Soul-Bond with Zachariah (if he consents) both to give him access to the full extent of {Rest State} and so that we can keep him safe if he still receives an Inverted Ethos
- [X] [AC] Start the exodus: get our family on the road asap, we clearly are not safe at home even with the Watch's protection
-- [X] [AC] While Lilly finishes up what loose ends there are around Harmuph, the Silas family should start the journey, Lilly can easily catch up to them via {Slipstream}
- [X] [AC] Heed {Rest State}'s warning wrt self-application of {Affective Radiance} and limit its use to short bursts in dangerous moments
My second proposal is specifically about how to help out Kaymie, since I figure that is going to be more controversial:
[X] Plan: Helping out Kaymie
- [X] [AC] Test with Myah if and how you can notice and reject someone else establishing an Essence Link with us to avoid Kaymie being used to harm us.
- [X] [AC] Attempt to figure out how to encode speech/knowledge in Essence the way Kaymie did.
- [X] [AC] Query {The Ladder} and {Juncture Sense} about potential dangers from connecting to Kaymie and advise us on the timing
- [X] [TowCA] Open an Essence Link.
-- [X] [TowCA] Keeping an Essence Link open 24/7 is clearly too dangerous for both of us, even though most people in Water's retinue who use Essence aren't Aurons on our level, this would eventually be discovered. However opening an Essence Link in the middle of the night, just long enough to use {Slipstream} to skip through a pebble with the strongest application of {Applied Current} we can manage, to pass her use of {Rest State} should be a manageable risk while still helping her out.
The goal would be to figure out a way to communicate with and help out Kaymie through our mastery of Essence. Within Water's party there's other people that use Essence, but few have Essence Sight as good as ours (we only identified Kaymie as a fellow Auron in 2.1) and I think the odds that Kaymie can hide an additional Essence Formation among her others are good. (And if she feels like she can't she can still always unravel it and pretend nothing happened). To minimise the danger to ourselves we should see if Essence Links from elsewhere can be denied (we have Myah around as someone to test this with) and if we can send Kaymie messages via the link to see what we need to prepare for when we decide to exfiltrate her.
[X] Plan: Finish up loose ends and let's get this show on the road
- [X] [TLatS] Valerie is neutralised for now and there is no threat from her while she resides in Petal, argue that any decision on her life or death should be deferred until her original mindstate has been recovered and her culpability can be determined more clearly.
- [X] [CaT] A subtle hand. Steering but never overriding. I would use it frequently, but to encourage, not control.
-- [X] [CaT] Use liberally in moments of danger and against opponents and conservatively with our friends and family, avoid long-term use
- [X] [WaL] Use a Minor Relations link to borrow use of {Hybrid Siphon} while Evie otherwise rests
- [X] [TNA] Valerie called me 'Bloomling', like it meant something. The hillock out west, the secret of my name. I have already put it off too long.
- [X] [TNA] Tell Zach he is going to awaken to an Ethos in eleven days. Try to spend time averting him from tragedy.
- [X] [TNA] Captain Martin had something he wanted me to do that he felt was important even after discovering the truth about me. I should follow up on that.
- [X] [TMo] I decided I would take a risk with the Madam. It didn't feel right to turn her away.
- [X] [MnM] If she wants to, Myah is part of the family now
- [X] [MRL] Soul-Bond
-- [X] [MRL] Establish a Soul-Bond with Zachariah (if he consents) both to give him access to the full extent of {Rest State} and so that we can keep him safe if he still receives an Inverted Ethos
- [X] [AC] Start the exodus: get our family on the road asap, we clearly are not safe at home even with the Watch's protection
-- [X] [AC] While Lilly finishes up what loose ends there are around Harmuph, the Silas family should start the journey, Lilly can easily catch up to them via {Slipstream}
- [X] [AC] Heed {Rest State}'s warning wrt self-application of {Affective Radiance} and limit its use to short bursts in dangerous moments
My second proposal is specifically about how to help out Kaymie, since I figure that is going to be more controversial:
[X] Plan: Helping out Kaymie
- [X] [AC] Test with Myah if and how you can notice and reject someone else establishing an Essence Link with us to avoid Kaymie being used to harm us.
- [X] [AC] Attempt to figure out how to encode speech/knowledge in Essence the way Kaymie did.
- [X] [AC] Query {The Ladder} and {Juncture Sense} about potential dangers from connecting to Kaymie and advise us on the timing
- [X] [TowCA] Open an Essence Link.
-- [X] [TowCA] Keeping an Essence Link open 24/7 is clearly too dangerous for both of us, even though most people in Water's retinue who use Essence aren't Aurons on our level, this would eventually be discovered. However opening an Essence Link in the middle of the night, just long enough to use {Slipstream} to skip through a pebble with the strongest application of {Applied Current} we can manage, to pass her use of {Rest State} should be a manageable risk while still helping her out.
The goal would be to figure out a way to communicate with and help out Kaymie through our mastery of Essence. Within Water's party there's other people that use Essence, but few have Essence Sight as good as ours (we only identified Kaymie as a fellow Auron in 2.1) and I think the odds that Kaymie can hide an additional Essence Formation among her others are good. (And if she feels like she can't she can still always unravel it and pretend nothing happened). To minimise the danger to ourselves we should see if Essence Links from elsewhere can be denied (we have Myah around as someone to test this with) and if we can send Kaymie messages via the link to see what we need to prepare for when we decide to exfiltrate her.
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So maybe telling the truth, at least a partial one.
The only thing Lilly could do at the time was to stop her, and ripping her head off didn't work. Myah can maybe even collaborate that, with Valerie's head growing back, plus the commands she issued stayed in effect until after Lilly left. So she did the only thing she had any idea would work, and took her away. She doesn't know how long it'll take before Valerie will exit, and Lilly can maybe take the good Captain to Petal to let him see.
So either way, I imagine that everyone will have to sit and wait for Valerie to come out. So no mob rule, and there's time for people to think and talk. This doesn't solve the issue of their resentment, but it's a messy situation all the way around.
Weren't people theorizing that Valerie had something like an Inverted Oath ability, or is Apotheotic something all on it's own? I bring up because of Zack's situation, and the opportunity we have to bring it to light. Including stuff like that might encourage them to think about Ethea that control the user, and Lilly tying to fix Zack's situation might help them believe that she did something similar with Valerie.
Just some ideas, and I apologize if I'm retreading old ground or otherwise making dumb points. I only follow the thread loosely, but I just wanted to make sure that something didn't get overlooked because I was too hesitant.
grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
I'm pretty sure Apotheotic is, well, apotheotic – about apotheosis i.e. becoming a god.
And so far I think the gods on offer have all been more akin to Nyarlathotep or Yog-Sothoth than, say, Avalokiteśvara or Persephone. (ok ok ok bodhisattvas are not actually gods but they have sufficiently god-with-a-small-g-like characteristics to be a valid point of reference)
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
Something important to consider is to make an [] [AC] vote to reconfigure the xp allocation. Eevie is full, her allocation should be set to 0 till she is healed.
[] [AC] Set Eevie's xp allocation to 0 till she is recovered.
Unless Lilly already did that. Did she?
[] [AC] Set Eevie's xp allocation to 0 till she is recovered.
Unless Lilly already did that. Did she?
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
It's currently unclear what exactly Valerie's Ethos situation is. My personal guess is that she has a Flow/Oath power that she has powered up through consuming Deific Fragments. The reason she can give commands to the Air for example is because she has hit the threshold to have Abstraction:
The Flow portion is how she controls people and things, while the Oath part is how she made a pact with Abbie.
Possibly she could also be a multi-Ethos user like Lilly who picked up Abbie the same way we picked up Evie, but I don't think we could've dislodged Abbie if she had taken the place of an Integration Vector like Evie did, since I'd assume that anchors a Deific entity more securely than a pact made via Oath.
Ultimately investigating that will have to wait until we've recovered her original mindstate though.
Edit: Apotheotic is a rarity of an Ethos rather than a source type. We've so far only seen it on the two Ethea offered up by the Maw/Colossi
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
In terms of the Valerie situation, we have a proverbial goldmine awaiting us. This is a noble, possibly even from Lira/Molain, who has certainly been educated in the workings of her country. The level of political influence she has is unknown, but this could bode well in preparing for future conflicts with the Northern people. Furthermore, she likely has a much greater degree of knowledge about Ethea as a result of her noble birth, which could all be useful. Not to mention the prospect of acquiring a sane Apotheotic ethos user for the LillySquad. She could really help with Waters.
However, we do have to weigh the downsides. There are also two scenarios in regards to how she left her former home. Either she somehow snuck out peacefully/unnoticed, or she murdered her family and got away. Both scenarios mean that there will likely be serious scrying coming down on us right now, which is especially dangerous because neither Aboleath nor Evie are here to defend against those attempts. (speaking of, was that veil that appeared on us when we arrived at Harumph the Hybrid Siphon?). Assuming she didn't cut off all her connections, perhaps we could leverage this into some political protection from a noble family. Either way, the situation is very dangerous in my opinion, until we have Evie back online as our "defense against this bajillion magics that we don't know about". We could be looking at the posibillity of negative attention from larger powers much sooner than we expect, with our biggest shield gone.
About the [Shine, my Gentle Heart] thing, I just have to say that I totally called it. Besides that, I think we should be restrained in its usage for anyone not explicitly an enemy and for ourselves. Using it on our self seems like a good way to diverge Bedrock hard and I think the Ethos is going to benefit greatly from strong morality, and the other road is going to go down some negative paths. Plus, imagine if we're caught using flow excessively? We're going to be chased down hard. Also for some speculation, I am fairly certain some part of Aurora's heart ritual is related to what was described in [Championed Uplift]. I think that was the identity fracture trial or something like that. And I think [Shine, my Gentle Heart] probably had its layer-limiters removed, and that's what we felt.
However, we do have to weigh the downsides. There are also two scenarios in regards to how she left her former home. Either she somehow snuck out peacefully/unnoticed, or she murdered her family and got away. Both scenarios mean that there will likely be serious scrying coming down on us right now, which is especially dangerous because neither Aboleath nor Evie are here to defend against those attempts. (speaking of, was that veil that appeared on us when we arrived at Harumph the Hybrid Siphon?). Assuming she didn't cut off all her connections, perhaps we could leverage this into some political protection from a noble family. Either way, the situation is very dangerous in my opinion, until we have Evie back online as our "defense against this bajillion magics that we don't know about". We could be looking at the posibillity of negative attention from larger powers much sooner than we expect, with our biggest shield gone.
About the [Shine, my Gentle Heart] thing, I just have to say that I totally called it. Besides that, I think we should be restrained in its usage for anyone not explicitly an enemy and for ourselves. Using it on our self seems like a good way to diverge Bedrock hard and I think the Ethos is going to benefit greatly from strong morality, and the other road is going to go down some negative paths. Plus, imagine if we're caught using flow excessively? We're going to be chased down hard. Also for some speculation, I am fairly certain some part of Aurora's heart ritual is related to what was described in [Championed Uplift]. I think that was the identity fracture trial or something like that. And I think [Shine, my Gentle Heart] probably had its layer-limiters removed, and that's what we felt.
[x] [TNA] Valerie called me 'Bloomling', like it meant something. The hillock out west, the secret of my name. I have already put it off too long.
[x] [WaL] I told Evie to sleep. I wouldn't let her kill herself for me.
[x] [TowCA] Leave the door closed, for now.
Given how well the Aurora thing went, we need to meet with Flower. If we leave without doing this, going back there will only get more dangerous, and we can be certain that Flower is likely generally benevolent to us, as a bloomling. I don't put stock in Mom's fear, since obviously she treats different bloomlings differently (like Marigold and reading her Ethos description) and we know she favors us. We need to grab onto as much power as we can right now, because we're working in the dark and it's only a matter of time before the next lord Waters hits us.
Evie is one of our most useful ethea, and is our only method of defense against literally every single other method of attack, most of which we don't even know yet. She's the only reason we even could fight Valerie. She must be protected at all costs. If anyone else can come up with more effective ways to help her recover quicker, I would vote for that in an instant.
Opening a link to Kaymie right now is just dumb, feels like the kind of option we failed a wisdom save for.
Alright, those are all of my thoughts for now.
- Location
- Dragyxx
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Hmm, I think I just had an epiphany about [Ply the Line]. It is not 'plying' like a fisherman plies, but rather like a ship plies the waves. [Cleaver] has consistently been self-targeted; [Ladder] tells Lilly about things she can affect or that will affect her, and [Sample Space] lets her look a second into all possible futures and pick which of her own actions lead to the 'best' one. I think [Ply the Line] is a 'rudder' that is used to steer Lilly's path through the Lines of Concordance; We've been using it wrong by trying to use it externally, changing the fates of other things directly, but this is as clumsy as changing the course of other ships by crudely ramming into them. We should be using it internally; what it's really for is changing Lilly's fate, and affecting others through her, rather than directly.
Like say, making it so that [True Song] will be repaired in time to help convince Captain Martin, rather than trying to change his mind with it directly.
[X] [TLatS] Be honest and upfront. You have more personal experience than you would like to admit with what it's like to be under mind-altering effects, and can't help but sympathize with someone who was turned into a monster by them, not with how you probably would have fallen into insanity yourself at least twice without the help of {Rest State}. Additionally, while this may be the first time you run into someone who was twisted into a monster that you might be able to help, it certainly won't be the last. You have the unique position of being someone who could actually fix Inverted Ethea... and if that... rose, and what it did is any indication, Count Walters probably is using some kind of effect just as nasty, if not worse than, what Valerie was under to control at least some of his minions. We're going to have to make a solid decision on how to treat Flow-controlled, demon-possessed, and Inversion-twisted people... and Lilly is possibly the only person in existence with the option to save them. Sure, it was a random noblewoman nobody here knew this time... but next time it could be someone close. Myah was dangerously close to inverting, through no real fault of her own. Had Valerie been an iota smarter, there could have been half a dozen mind-controlled Watchmen to deal with. Should they really be executed for the crime of not being able to resist?
Constraints and Thought: It may not be a concern immediately, but the day would soon come where I had to decide the limits of what I was willing to do with {Affective Radiance}. I didn't have a firm grasp on how quickly and permanently I could sway others, but the fact remained that given enough time I would eventually have to choose where my line that I would not cross lay.
[X] [CaT] A subtle hand. Steering but never overriding. I would use it frequently, but to encourage, not control.
[X] [CaT] Cautious and restrained. To deny others their own Will strayed to close to being a hypocrite, I would be careful and measured.
[X] [CaT] Flow vs. Flow. For most of even your enemies, twisting their very desires is too much for your gentle heart. But against those who wield such powers without restraint? There you must use what tools you have to counteract and counterattack.
Let's not slide down this slippery slope. We have a potent tool to use... but we must use it responsibly, lest we become a monster worse than Valerie. For while she could force others to obey... we could force them to want it. And that is in many ways more intrusive.
[X] [WaL] See what you can do to ease Evie's burden for long enough to at least test if the {Hybrid Siphon} will actually work to free your family. Minor Relations slot? Petal assisting, taking the reigns of the Siphon? Pump in more Essence or Gravitas? Shelter her in the Dream? If you can safely make it so that things are settled enough that Evie's existence is not at risk, then use the Siphon as necessary. But you can keep your family alive in their frozen state for a time if you need to, and if Evie dies then you'll lose your best chance of saving them, or of surviving your next encounter with something like what was in Valerie. Her immediate survival is critical, and if you can't secure it safely with the Siphon active, then tell her to sleep.
The one who Cries Alone: Kaymie needs help. I may be the only person in all the world that knows this and is willing to help. Do I dare open an Essence Link to a Wielder more experienced than myself under the close supervision of extremely dangerous people? Will it put me in danger? Put her in danger? But, to have a chance to help her, and still do nothing….
[X] [TowCA] Leave the door closed, for now. Wait just a little longer, until {The Ladder} and {Juncture Sense} are less stressed. You've learned to take their advice carefully, but they do give good information a lot of the time... and something like Kaymie's situation might be a lot like with Valerie, where one critical piece of information might be a matter of life and death.
[ ] [TNA] Valerie called me 'Bloomling', like it meant something. The hillock out west, the secret of my name. I have already put it off too long.
[ ] [TNA] Captain Martin had something he wanted me to do that he felt was important even after discovering the truth about me. I should follow up on that.
[ ] [TNA] I'm going to stay home with my family. Perhaps I should be doing something more important, but I just can't right now.
We could combine this one with either of the latter two.
[ ] [TNA] Power experimentation. There are literally dozens of things I need to learn. (Write in if you want specific powers/subpowers/features to be the focus.)
[ ] [TNA] Tell Zach he is going to awaken to an Ethos in eleven days. Try to spend time averting him from tragedy.
These are all things we need to do. But in what order? That is the question...
It's also probably a good idea to bring our family in on at least some of what's going on with Lilly now. We can't exactly hide it after the display they just had to witness....
The Madam's offer: Madam Silva surprised me, offering to throw her lot in with what I am starting to recognise as my 'following'. Her requests seem reasonable, but do I trust a woman who I suspect would jump ship to a better deal the moment one came along?
[X] [TMo] It wouldn't be right to advocate for Valerie, who came as a demon-possessed killer, and yet turn away Silva just because she might turn on you. Isn't that the very cynical, self-serving kind of world we wish to change things away from? Be the change you want to see, and give her an honest chance. There will always be room beneath your boughs for just one more.
[ ] [MnM] Write In
Still deciding what would be a good option here.
[ ] [MRL] Write In
We should do something here, for sure. I'm not fully decieded yet... but we do need to remember that the time is ticking for Seeding Zach with {Rest State} to protect him from his incoming Inverted Ethos. It takes seven days to do that, and we only have eleven left.
[X] [AC] {Melded Carapace} requires you to be wearing armor. Try using {Constructs} to make some armor.
[X] [AC] {Entities} is probably your best bet for creating a new body to put Micah's soul in. But you don't really know how to use it right now. Try testing creating something small and harmless with {Entities} as an experiment.
Like say, making it so that [True Song] will be repaired in time to help convince Captain Martin, rather than trying to change his mind with it directly.
[X] [TLatS] Be honest and upfront. You have more personal experience than you would like to admit with what it's like to be under mind-altering effects, and can't help but sympathize with someone who was turned into a monster by them, not with how you probably would have fallen into insanity yourself at least twice without the help of {Rest State}. Additionally, while this may be the first time you run into someone who was twisted into a monster that you might be able to help, it certainly won't be the last. You have the unique position of being someone who could actually fix Inverted Ethea... and if that... rose, and what it did is any indication, Count Walters probably is using some kind of effect just as nasty, if not worse than, what Valerie was under to control at least some of his minions. We're going to have to make a solid decision on how to treat Flow-controlled, demon-possessed, and Inversion-twisted people... and Lilly is possibly the only person in existence with the option to save them. Sure, it was a random noblewoman nobody here knew this time... but next time it could be someone close. Myah was dangerously close to inverting, through no real fault of her own. Had Valerie been an iota smarter, there could have been half a dozen mind-controlled Watchmen to deal with. Should they really be executed for the crime of not being able to resist?
Constraints and Thought: It may not be a concern immediately, but the day would soon come where I had to decide the limits of what I was willing to do with {Affective Radiance}. I didn't have a firm grasp on how quickly and permanently I could sway others, but the fact remained that given enough time I would eventually have to choose where my line that I would not cross lay.
[X] [CaT] A subtle hand. Steering but never overriding. I would use it frequently, but to encourage, not control.
[X] [CaT] Cautious and restrained. To deny others their own Will strayed to close to being a hypocrite, I would be careful and measured.
[X] [CaT] Flow vs. Flow. For most of even your enemies, twisting their very desires is too much for your gentle heart. But against those who wield such powers without restraint? There you must use what tools you have to counteract and counterattack.
Let's not slide down this slippery slope. We have a potent tool to use... but we must use it responsibly, lest we become a monster worse than Valerie. For while she could force others to obey... we could force them to want it. And that is in many ways more intrusive.
[X] [WaL] See what you can do to ease Evie's burden for long enough to at least test if the {Hybrid Siphon} will actually work to free your family. Minor Relations slot? Petal assisting, taking the reigns of the Siphon? Pump in more Essence or Gravitas? Shelter her in the Dream? If you can safely make it so that things are settled enough that Evie's existence is not at risk, then use the Siphon as necessary. But you can keep your family alive in their frozen state for a time if you need to, and if Evie dies then you'll lose your best chance of saving them, or of surviving your next encounter with something like what was in Valerie. Her immediate survival is critical, and if you can't secure it safely with the Siphon active, then tell her to sleep.
The one who Cries Alone: Kaymie needs help. I may be the only person in all the world that knows this and is willing to help. Do I dare open an Essence Link to a Wielder more experienced than myself under the close supervision of extremely dangerous people? Will it put me in danger? Put her in danger? But, to have a chance to help her, and still do nothing….
[X] [TowCA] Leave the door closed, for now. Wait just a little longer, until {The Ladder} and {Juncture Sense} are less stressed. You've learned to take their advice carefully, but they do give good information a lot of the time... and something like Kaymie's situation might be a lot like with Valerie, where one critical piece of information might be a matter of life and death.
[ ] [TNA] Valerie called me 'Bloomling', like it meant something. The hillock out west, the secret of my name. I have already put it off too long.
[ ] [TNA] Captain Martin had something he wanted me to do that he felt was important even after discovering the truth about me. I should follow up on that.
[ ] [TNA] I'm going to stay home with my family. Perhaps I should be doing something more important, but I just can't right now.
We could combine this one with either of the latter two.
[ ] [TNA] Power experimentation. There are literally dozens of things I need to learn. (Write in if you want specific powers/subpowers/features to be the focus.)
[ ] [TNA] Tell Zach he is going to awaken to an Ethos in eleven days. Try to spend time averting him from tragedy.
These are all things we need to do. But in what order? That is the question...
It's also probably a good idea to bring our family in on at least some of what's going on with Lilly now. We can't exactly hide it after the display they just had to witness....
The Madam's offer: Madam Silva surprised me, offering to throw her lot in with what I am starting to recognise as my 'following'. Her requests seem reasonable, but do I trust a woman who I suspect would jump ship to a better deal the moment one came along?
[X] [TMo] It wouldn't be right to advocate for Valerie, who came as a demon-possessed killer, and yet turn away Silva just because she might turn on you. Isn't that the very cynical, self-serving kind of world we wish to change things away from? Be the change you want to see, and give her an honest chance. There will always be room beneath your boughs for just one more.
[ ] [MnM] Write In
Still deciding what would be a good option here.
[ ] [MRL] Write In
We should do something here, for sure. I'm not fully decieded yet... but we do need to remember that the time is ticking for Seeding Zach with {Rest State} to protect him from his incoming Inverted Ethos. It takes seven days to do that, and we only have eleven left.
[X] [AC] {Melded Carapace} requires you to be wearing armor. Try using {Constructs} to make some armor.
[X] [AC] {Entities} is probably your best bet for creating a new body to put Micah's soul in. But you don't really know how to use it right now. Try testing creating something small and harmless with {Entities} as an experiment.
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Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
That sounds right.
Think Lilly needs an AC vote for her to start actively using Ply the Line and Imposition of Will along with her actions. As a supporting action to buff her to get favorable results out of what she does.
Alternatively active power testing in the [TNA] vote.
[] [AC] Lilly commits to using {Imposition of Will} and {Ply the Line} as supporting actions to her decisions, especially for those for which she knows what outcomes she desires.
[] [TNA] Power experimentation. There are literally dozens of things I need to learn. (Ply the Line, Critical Pivot, and Imposition of Intent)
A stray thought:
Effective Radiance guided by Critical Pivot. Lowering the bar and load on concordance for Critical Pivot to influence events in Lilly's favor. Or alternatively, when using Effective Radiance it can nudge Lilly to apply the power in more beneficial ways, for both herself and the one she's using it on.
[] [AC] Use a lesser relations to pair up {Critical Pivot} and {Affective Radiance}.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
I think using Perfect Seedling on Zach is a suboptimal play. Iirc the Seedling still occupies the Major Relations slot after it has been planted, so if we're gonna occupy that slot then I think a Soul Bond is much more advantageous, since it not only gives him the full use of [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock], but also lets us use his Ethos when it arrives plus keeps him safe from others trying to kill him through the {Attuned Locus} backup.
Plus a seedling that's four days old sounds kind of insufficient to diverting his course wrt the Inverted Ethos. I think we'd overall be better served with a Soul Bond here, something that I think we'll want to make our entire family a part of in the first place.
ooh, querying {The Ladder} and {Juncture Sense} for that is a good shout, I'll add that to my proposal. I don't think we should try and rush things to aid Kaymie literally today, but at some point in the next few days if we can and nothing else interrupts for once.