- Location
- The Frozen North
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm fairly sure that this is The Ladder telling Lilly that Sample Space won't work for something, based on the font and general tone.
It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure
- Thread starter Slyvena
- Start date
- Original Mature Fantasy Action
Olivebirdy
mook.
Why did we turn down working with the hot trainer? One day of working with him gave us weeks or months of progress. His ability to create an illusory world does not limit us to working with Pithe, and we're trusting people with our secret left and right.
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
I think this needs to be added to an AC vote. Additional considerations.
I wouldn't worry about it, Even if Lilly hasn't completely changed how things are supposed to work. There is nothing in the character sheet or the description of the ability that says it has to be conquered. In fact the description mentions that the dungeon is supposed to "upscale investment arbitrarily to resist any long term group suppression." the fact that people want to conquer the dungeon isn't going to give them the ability to do anything about it.
We didn't, what happened was that we asked to train at home with a small group of people rather then living in the barracks with a bunch of unmarried men and he agreed that was something we could do. He was going to come back the next day with a group of friends but with the wolf attack that morning and us being in a coma so we haven't had any time to train.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
It does make me extraordinarily nervous,
given how much was riding on the initial moment of the plan. Lilly's quick at adapting but [Will Winnower] is just overpowered as fuck and anything going wrong is terrifyingly likely to lead to people dying.
Unless what we're talking about here is Lilly using {Sample Space} again after closing in. But the planned use was as unambiguously intended use as it gets. A simple objective that takes a short period of time to fire and resolve (Closing less than five meters with superhuman speed and body-control at our disposal)
This also being one of the things we've maintained infosec on, there shouldn't be a contingency counter against this kind of thing either. And it's worked as planned in the past--the only possible wrinkle I can see is a hypothesis of "{Sample Space} can't plot the actions of Aboleath".
But that still breaks down into the "Valerie has been intentionally cultivated to be a lackadaisical vessel of murder, and her conflicts have never really put her in any serious danger, the timescales involved shouldn't leave her time to react even if Aboleath shouts a warning"
... Unless Aboleath does an Assuming Direct Control moment. But that's just as likely to backfire on him because his tenuous control of Valerie is dependent on her not feeling threatened enough by him to push back, and he doesn't completely have her bent to his will yet. Even Ev'aclial needed to create a proxy mindstate to try and puppet Lilly rather than just controlling the vessel herself. Which suggests that Transcendents can't operate powers outside of the ones the vessels have access to. And if Aboleath could simply deploy a Mindstate Valerie, safely, he'd have done it by now and saved himself the hassle of having a vessel who has to drag encounters out of her own lingering sense of guilt and whimsy.
Which if that's the case, that might be the angle Lilly can work on. It'd definitely fit as a mirror of Ev'aclial though, who wanted to take the 'Safe route without any risks in the short term' when we know for a fact that would have led to calamity in the long run. I wonder if Transcendents put on the spot just aren't very good at long term planning so much as making the immediate threat go away?
Unless what we're talking about here is Lilly using {Sample Space} again after closing in. But the planned use was as unambiguously intended use as it gets. A simple objective that takes a short period of time to fire and resolve (Closing less than five meters with superhuman speed and body-control at our disposal)
This also being one of the things we've maintained infosec on, there shouldn't be a contingency counter against this kind of thing either. And it's worked as planned in the past--the only possible wrinkle I can see is a hypothesis of "{Sample Space} can't plot the actions of Aboleath".
But that still breaks down into the "Valerie has been intentionally cultivated to be a lackadaisical vessel of murder, and her conflicts have never really put her in any serious danger, the timescales involved shouldn't leave her time to react even if Aboleath shouts a warning"
... Unless Aboleath does an Assuming Direct Control moment. But that's just as likely to backfire on him because his tenuous control of Valerie is dependent on her not feeling threatened enough by him to push back, and he doesn't completely have her bent to his will yet. Even Ev'aclial needed to create a proxy mindstate to try and puppet Lilly rather than just controlling the vessel herself. Which suggests that Transcendents can't operate powers outside of the ones the vessels have access to. And if Aboleath could simply deploy a Mindstate Valerie, safely, he'd have done it by now and saved himself the hassle of having a vessel who has to drag encounters out of her own lingering sense of guilt and whimsy.
Which if that's the case, that might be the angle Lilly can work on. It'd definitely fit as a mirror of Ev'aclial though, who wanted to take the 'Safe route without any risks in the short term' when we know for a fact that would have led to calamity in the long run. I wonder if Transcendents put on the spot just aren't very good at long term planning so much as making the immediate threat go away?
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- Location
- Who Knows Where
I think our QM is giving us the full Lilly Silas experience here-Agonizing uncertainty followed by risking it all.
Still, thanks for the info, are those new additions to your sig @Slyvena ? Neat stuff. The words "Dangerous", "Broken" and "Paramour" are all encouraging, happy words! Or that's what I choose to believe anyhow yes yes
Still, thanks for the info, are those new additions to your sig @Slyvena ? Neat stuff. The words "Dangerous", "Broken" and "Paramour" are all encouraging, happy words! Or that's what I choose to believe anyhow yes yes
- Pronouns
- They/Them
you know, if this is a statement accurate to how Post-Gravitic Factors work, that's an interesting bit of information. It implies that the larger the negative number the less likely it is to happen, and the closer to zero it is the more likely it will take place. I guess that'd mean that Myah's Inversion event was unlikely to happen, presumably because Lilly had already decided on her course of action. Conversely the numbers we have for the slaughter of the Silas family probably don't include Lilly's influence on the situation yet, since it comes before we've voted on an approach for how to take out Valerie.
Also re Valerie: {The Ladder} said we could permanently disable Zach's ability to receive an Ethos by piercing his soul with our domain. I wonder if us enveloping Valerie's soul with the Domain will damage her Ethos in some way (beyond the desired flushing out of Abby that is)
All dungeons are made to be conquered at some point in their lifecycle. Some are meant for single-use, others for farming, yet again others to put pressure on a population to grow. that's nothing specific to [Towering Edifice To Heaven]
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
I wish we had used {Ply the Line} instead of sample space. Since it gives super luck and makes things go her way.
Lilly's not doing something impossible here, which sample space is a cheat for, she's doing something she's capable of. And a boost of {Ply the Line} would make it an almost guaranteed success.
Or so I believe.
It was mentioned why sample space might have failed to perfectly simulate the situation was Zach's potential ethos.
But it can also be that Abby is an Divine entity, she can fudge the numbers in Valeries favor and mess around with concordance. Where sample space looks for a solution to a problem and then executes, but Abby can then mess with the execution after it's committed. In a way entities like Abby and Evie may not be possible to account for.
Lilly's not doing something impossible here, which sample space is a cheat for, she's doing something she's capable of. And a boost of {Ply the Line} would make it an almost guaranteed success.
Or so I believe.
It was mentioned why sample space might have failed to perfectly simulate the situation was Zach's potential ethos.
But it can also be that Abby is an Divine entity, she can fudge the numbers in Valeries favor and mess around with concordance. Where sample space looks for a solution to a problem and then executes, but Abby can then mess with the execution after it's committed. In a way entities like Abby and Evie may not be possible to account for.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
You want to experiment with a power we haven't mastered yet?
{Sample Space} isn't about doing the impossible, it's fishing for the best possible result from a given action so long as it can be resolved in the period of time it lasts for. {Ply The Line} is better in general, yeah, but we haven't trained it yet and this is not the time to experiment.
..
Man, I did theorize that Zach's Ethos might come in early here, but isn't one of the few certain ways to fuck up Concordance is someone involved suddenly gaining completely new options? Like how the prediction we got from {The Ladder} about Waters wouldn't be foiled from the tools we had but might possibly be changed if we suddenly gained access to a new Source?
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- Location
- Europe
{Ply the Line} works on objects and things. Like, the literal ones, not the abstract meaning. We haven't reached that point yet.
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
We where using {Ply the Line} wrong before.
Lilly is the cleaver and her powers are meant to buff her and her actions. She wants something done? She bends probability and her own actions to get that result to cleave that future by her own hands. That is the nature of the [Cleaver of Fortune]. She makes actions and nudges things to fall her way, she makes a cut, and her {Critical Pivot} helps all things fall as she intended, by the opening she made. It's a self-enhancement type of power. She pushes around Concordant weight and pulls at it with {Ply the Line} to get herself to act the right way and to get things to fall her way.
The reason the Ladder promotes getting minions and people who rely on her and listen to her is that helps her do more with what the power has. Without Lilly's other powers that's essentially how the power is meant to be used. Her power is to cleave a future, and for a normal user, that means getting people to trust her, have faith in her, and listen to her.
If she wants something to happen she uses the power to give the right orders, say the right things, do the right things, be there for the people, save them, get them to be an extension of her influence. Avert disasters from herself, her minions, and get a future where she and her followers win. And the supernatural luck allows things to go just right for it all to work out, hopefully.
I imagine tension channeling comes into play when she has lots of minions. Able to use the minion's own soul tension to affect the future. As the figurative wielders of the cleaver that is Lilly.
However Lilly has a lot more, she has powers of her own. Which makes [Cleaver of Fortune] become combat-capable. But nature's still to affect herself and her actions, which propagate out as she cleaves at the concord.
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Olivebirdy
mook.
My bad, we didn't turn down working with Mathew entirely, but we're also being more hesitant than is conducive to our survival.
We should perhaps change our mind on this, bring Mathew further in. I do think we can train our secret stuff with him, we've got the ability to vet him for secrecy, if nothing else.
- Location
- Europe
Yes, but not with that specific ability. {Critical Pivot} is what you are searching, and that works automatically.
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
The note on {Ply the Line}
Ply the line and the powers under it are explicitly active powers. Junction sense use to be an active power, it said so in this chapter, but we almost never relied on it. It was moved to the Ladder to become automatic.
I suspect {Critical Pivot} may be an active power as well, we just don't know how to activate it. Tho it may also be an passive buff to {Ply the Line}'s active effect.
You know I'd forgotten that was a part of the plan vote. In fact I don't think that A mentor and his student was ever the focus of the thread discussion. It just sort of coasted in under the winning plan which is in retrospect rather embarrassing.
I was under the impression that Mathew's help was mainly focusing on Brave Blood because that's the ethos that works best with his ability and that we chose the more distant option because as a Pithe user he can't help with Essence or Concordance.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I think our take was that we'd take the offers but we wouldn't go ALL IN on it at first, because we needed to check for assholes.
Looks like Captain Martin had that in hand though.
Gosh, we're really going to have problems with damcon here. That was one of his best guys that got unceremoniously ganked.
Looks like Captain Martin had that in hand though.
Gosh, we're really going to have problems with damcon here. That was one of his best guys that got unceremoniously ganked.
Olivebirdy
mook.
This doesn't seem limited to Pithe and fighting. It's best for that, most
efficacious, but having access to those numerous pathways seems pretty useful.
They even simulated Essence for us, since we're such a good Auron.
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- Location
- PA
...Sudden thought that makes me go 'crap'.
Evie's thing is stray Vector, something something space-bending What the Flip.
We could possibly have simply asked Evie to Yeet Valerie away from the house, and get out of this situation that way.
And once that's done we can do damage control on the family, try and see to anyone's wounds, and prepare for the inevitable Round 2 when Valerie returns...Though it DOES also sacrifice Valerie given Aboleth gets so much more time to drive her to cause damage or run around, and more importantly, time to twist Valerie, this time beyond a return to her former self.
Evie's thing is stray Vector, something something space-bending What the Flip.
We could possibly have simply asked Evie to Yeet Valerie away from the house, and get out of this situation that way.
And once that's done we can do damage control on the family, try and see to anyone's wounds, and prepare for the inevitable Round 2 when Valerie returns...Though it DOES also sacrifice Valerie given Aboleth gets so much more time to drive her to cause damage or run around, and more importantly, time to twist Valerie, this time beyond a return to her former self.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
It was mentioned somewhere that we can't predict what happens with {Stray Vector} yet, it just imposes new rules on the target that tend to make things suck for it. We'd need to do extra work on the power to be able to realistically control how it manifests.
It made sense to me that [Blessed Armsman] would be limited to things that he knew well enough to teach and he doesn't know enough to teach us essence or concordance.
Olivebirdy
mook.
Sure, but we can practice things there that we might not be able to practice in the real world.
I also wouldn't be sure that he can't teach us interesting stuff about Concordance and Essence, too. Like, he's trained a guy who eats fire and turns it into a concussive blast. He's pretty versatile.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Huh, a question comes to mind.
Given how it's been described, it looks like we get our Third Aspect of [Towering Edifice to the Heavens] once we've levelled up Relations or Artefacts once?
The question is how do we level those up? Do we just focus on them? Does it come when we have enough XP in that aspect? Except Gravitas in the Tower seems to work in a wibbly kind of fashion and sometimes spawns a big pile of extra stuff from out of nowhere (And Dungeons have to have some way of generating Gravitas on their own, otherwise they wouldn't be able to develop before people started farming it)
It does help that our Grasp on it is almost as high as it can be, and we'll probably get another point in that thanks to the Secret Challenge revealing another of its utility powers.
Ughhhhhhhhhhh
This whole event is driving me in bad places, and the little teaser we got did not help matters in the slightest!
Oh, right, one final thought. Are Major Relations Slots only committed while we're doing something with Relations? Or are they maintained stuff (So we can only have one Boon issued at any given time, and it eats our Major Relations slot?)
Given how it's been described, it looks like we get our Third Aspect of [Towering Edifice to the Heavens] once we've levelled up Relations or Artefacts once?
The question is how do we level those up? Do we just focus on them? Does it come when we have enough XP in that aspect? Except Gravitas in the Tower seems to work in a wibbly kind of fashion and sometimes spawns a big pile of extra stuff from out of nowhere (And Dungeons have to have some way of generating Gravitas on their own, otherwise they wouldn't be able to develop before people started farming it)
It does help that our Grasp on it is almost as high as it can be, and we'll probably get another point in that thanks to the Secret Challenge revealing another of its utility powers.
Ughhhhhhhhhhh
This whole event is driving me in bad places, and the little teaser we got did not help matters in the slightest!
Oh, right, one final thought. Are Major Relations Slots only committed while we're doing something with Relations? Or are they maintained stuff (So we can only have one Boon issued at any given time, and it eats our Major Relations slot?)
Slyvena
I don't like pie.
- Location
- Pie Shop
They are a continual cost. In order to reuse a Major or Minor Slot you need to recall what it is already being used for.
You are effectively a bridge sustaining the Relation.
Progress on the chapter is going well. First Draft resolving the Valerie situation is done and I just have a couple of tangential bits to write. Probably only another 4K or so, work is busy at the moment but I should be able to knock it over in less than a week. Especially if I can get some time to blitz it this weekend.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Wasn't that the bonus xp we got for the omake and in-universe was provided by Mindstate!Lilly leaving as much of herself behind as possible?