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Yes. The WoG you mention was about Jade's knowledge:
Ignition (MTG/Multicross, Planeswalker PC)
- Thread starter Alivaril
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- fairy tail magi: the labyrinth of magic magic the gathering magical girl lyrical nanoha (magical girl) puella magi madoka magica rwby alternate universe spoilers unreliable narrator earned your happy middle feedback appreciated life slowly gets better metaknowledge is overrated never too much fire setting knowledge not required this can only end well what could possibly go wrong?
Yes. The WoG you mention was about Jade's knowledge:
Hopefully the meaning (we are sacrificing fifth of what we have right now, not fifth of our unlimited potential) came through. After all, we were talking inside our head, with our aspect, so, meanings should be clearer than in plain speech.
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@Filraen: Agneyastra's rant also started with
So granting Nanoha an Agni spark to better protect us technically would fulfill that first part.
Hey guys, don't gang up on me
But the dogpile is so cuddly!
[X] So what did Nanoha think of Neph?
-[X] Incidentally, does Nanoha want to become a demigod?
[X] See if the man you just healed is alright
[X] Aimlessly explore the academy. You're supposed to find someone fun to debate with, right?
-[X] Incidentally, does Nanoha want to become a demigod?
[X] See if the man you just healed is alright
[X] Aimlessly explore the academy. You're supposed to find someone fun to debate with, right?
- Location
- Germany
Is the TAGGED/CHAMPION maybe related to channeling? The only dream where we noticed it on Indira included Red speech from her a bit later, and Olivie's White version was there during the JS incident, whereas we didn't sense it back on Lundra. Of course, it might also be permanent and we just didn't notice.
Jade should remember to speak-sing...
We should probably suggest Mom to learn Ethereal Vessel and Firewall. Both are especially useful to Devices and match her mana colors.
@Alivaril: Can Jade sense when her mana reserves are about to refill? This would especially matter for unfreezing Nanoha's home plane, when 24h external pass in 6h internal and it doesn't match a sleep cycle.
Does Mitra have her own hammerspace or multiple forms? If yes, what forms did Nanoha choose?
I had a few ideas and added them to our list of shinies for Dragon Age:
- retrieve artifacts before Fade "becomes a lot more dangerous", scan Fade to "greatly improve your own enchantments"
- try to meet Neph in a dreamrealm of the Fade ("mixed results" from dream-affecting spells)
- rescue "besieged people praying for aid" to get indirect worship
- Merrill as Thedas-only party member? (rediscovering elvish history)
- blood/bone/tissue samples: dwarf, elf, qunari, high dragon, archdemon, darkspawn, mabari, griffon, titan (lyrium & ores)
- crafting: runecrafting & enchantment, herbalism & potions, golems, elven woodbending, elven reality stabilization device
- soul manipulation: golems, tranquility ritual & reversal via spirit, Avvar shamanism, uthenera & somniari
- scan a Circle library (deploy firewalls + mental Firewall), get access to spells and all 6 mage specializations
- Brecilian Ruins: phylactery of arcane warrior (use Memory Banks)
- Frostback Mountains: scan for high dragon, find Haven
Temple of Andraste: scan ancient library, get spellweaver (cultist overseer of the 'Disciples of Andraste' is an arcane warrior)
The dragon search in the Frostback Mountains doesn't apply if it isn't the Fifth Blight, which happens in 9:30-9:31 Dragon. The age was named after the sighted high dragon, so our scan is only rationalized during the DA:O timeline.
Our Gift of Tongues allows us to read any language, so deciphering ancient texts is merely time-consuming.
@Yog: Apart from the meteor, which is a rare random encounter and thus either happens or doesn't, did I miss anything?
Do you have an idea how to justify Jade tracking down the Brecilian Ruins?
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We also probably will want to observe some somniari. If they exist, elven reality stabilization devices (it's a thing in DA:I I believe) might be interesting to look at. And depending on how impressive they are (if we go by game mechanics being somewhat realistic representation of reality, and "fighters cut through seeker drones with base steel" comment, very), we might also want to look at mabari to see how powerful those can be.
As to justifying - depends on what our scans of the world can sense, and which elf clan we get in contact with.
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Ethereal Vessel is something I'd very much like Jade to learn, if the schedule allows. Her White mana manipulation/construct skill is almost certainly too low to manage it for a while, but studying such an advanced construct will likely give useful information on manipulating White mana, like Jade's pendant did for Red. Eventually learning it would also let Jade create a temporary body in the event of the destruction of her artificial vessel. Given all that, I'm honestly kind of surprised the thread didn't vote to commit it to memory when we met Vanyel, so Jade could study it at her leisure. We should make sure to correct that oversight when we visit Velgarth next.
Doubt it has anything to do with channeling. Jade just likely wasn't skilled enough to sense it while on Lundra.
The following is speculation, but my personal theory is TAGGED/CHAMPION represents the Divine Spark, specifically the peculiar form of lesser Spark passed down when a Planeswalker (or just a normal Godling/Demigod, if possible) sacrifices a portion of their power to share it with their allies or descendants. Jade's senses register it as TAGGED/CHAMPION because this is a method for elevating champions, through tagging them with a large amount of divine power. I suspect the four branch cousins we haven't met yet all have TAGGED/CHAMPION, as will Nanoha if we go that route.
If so, the question is why Olivie possesses it, since she isn't an Agni. Two theories:
- Olivie has an Agni ancestor who married a Saint King.
- A White Planeswalker/Godling pulled off the descendant power-share trick centuries before Sylvester, effectively founding the Saint King line.
If Nanoha does end up with TAGGED/CHAMPION, that'd count as fairly strong evidence for my theory, I think. It'd also open up an amusing line of dialogue with Olivie: "Don't be upset by the Agni claiming to be divine, since you're probably a demigod too!"
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- Location
- Germany
@Yog: Right, I focused on DA:O and forgot that DA II starts concurrent to the Blight.
I didn't play Inquisition, so I don't know much about potential targets there. Of course, the plot won't happen for a while, but the lore is still valid.
Somniari are rare, so the child in Kirkwall might be the only one alive in 9:30, and his talent hasn't been discovered yet. Still, worth looking for.
I'll add elvhen reality stabilization devices and mabari to the list.
As to elf clans... I considered whether a First might work as a party member (either Thedas only or summon bond) to fill the Green mage role. Lanaya wouldn't stray from her clan, Velanna is hell-bent on revenge and her character is grating. Merrill might join for the chance to rediscover elvish history, but probably Thedas only.
Of course, a mage-only party really needs an arcane warrior to tank...
BTW, while several of the high level fights in DA:O are currently beyond us, we'll actually be well equipped for lesser dragons. Barrier Jackets, conceptual fire immunity, Sidhe's ice, Unison-Jade's lightning affinity, maneuverable flight, ...
Maybe we can use blood magic to sacrifice a bit of dragon blood as a physical component for our Red dragon constructs?
Olivie's Saint's Armor definitely is White magic and the Sägebrechts may be a divine line. Still, I don't see how that relates to TAGGED/CHAMPION. As I said, it might be a permanent effect due to lineage, but it might also be related to channelling. We'll have to wait and see.
I didn't play Inquisition, so I don't know much about potential targets there. Of course, the plot won't happen for a while, but the lore is still valid.
Somniari are rare, so the child in Kirkwall might be the only one alive in 9:30, and his talent hasn't been discovered yet. Still, worth looking for.
I'll add elvhen reality stabilization devices and mabari to the list.
As to elf clans... I considered whether a First might work as a party member (either Thedas only or summon bond) to fill the Green mage role. Lanaya wouldn't stray from her clan, Velanna is hell-bent on revenge and her character is grating. Merrill might join for the chance to rediscover elvish history, but probably Thedas only.
Of course, a mage-only party really needs an arcane warrior to tank...
BTW, while several of the high level fights in DA:O are currently beyond us, we'll actually be well equipped for lesser dragons. Barrier Jackets, conceptual fire immunity, Sidhe's ice, Unison-Jade's lightning affinity, maneuverable flight, ...
Maybe we can use blood magic to sacrifice a bit of dragon blood as a physical component for our Red dragon constructs?
Jade did, yesterday. I still think Agneyastra should take the lead on this. White constructs are hard to modify, but an AI has the processing power and precision to get it right the first time. Afterwards, she can teach Jade and transfer the spell data to Mitra. Then, we just need to get Mitra access to White and she can make her own avatar.
If Nanoha would gain TAGGED/CHAMPION upon ascension, wouldn't Neph know about that?
Olivie's Saint's Armor definitely is White magic and the Sägebrechts may be a divine line. Still, I don't see how that relates to TAGGED/CHAMPION. As I said, it might be a permanent effect due to lineage, but it might also be related to channelling. We'll have to wait and see.
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Ah, missed that line. Never mind.
Worth noting that Agneyastra seems to have unusual trouble manipulating White mana compared to Red, possibly because her soul is heavily Red. Mitra could have similar difficulty, so we may want to aim for Djinns corresponding to Mitra's primary colors: Red, Blue, Black. Also, I'm not sure Ethereal Vessel is particularly useful for devices, given how it likely requires an inhabiting soul to animate; the soul of a device is stuck inside that device, even with Unison capabilities.
Fair point. Counts as evidence against my theory. Possible Doylist explanation: Alivaril didn't anticipate us immediately asking the demigod Nanoha question. Possible Watsonian: Neph said she wasn't sure, not that she didn't have an idea.
Alternative (but less likely) Watsonian hypothesis: Nanoha gets a better version, and wouldn't have TAGGED/CHAMPION. It's only for people with weaker sparks.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
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Shame we aren't going to use titles for Olivie. I would have liked to call her Champion of White and see how she reacts.
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Carnation's soul sight placed Agneyastra as her bracelet form, not her avatar, so the device itself counts as her 'true self'. However, an ensouled object is pretty much the same as a soul gem.
If our soul gem can control an artificial vessel from outside, the same should apply to Ethereal Vessel. I'm optimistic Agneyastra and Mitra can do the same, i.e. use the White construct from afar.
Angeyastra sandbagged with Red to spare our pride, I wouldn't be surprised if the same applies to White.
Mitra might prefer having an avatar over a matching affinity, we'll just have to ask. Admittedly, "surprisingly low amounts of White" doesn't inspire confidence...
If Olivie is treated as the last Saint King then she'll have an entire religion to her name.
Maybe it's just a worship thing. Combine tradition of worship with worship itself with white mana - after she literally is a champion for billions.
Maybe it's just a worship thing. Combine tradition of worship with worship itself with white mana - after she literally is a champion for billions.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Doesn't quite mesh with Tagged, though.
My hypothesis is that there's Things in MGLN associated with each of the colors and they for some reason or another need to have champions. Olivie's White's, Indira was fucked by being Green's, that Blue guy we dreamed about a while back is Blue's, and we'll be meeting Black's and Red's at a later date.
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It isn't an interaction with White mana, because Indira has a Red version.
Worship is possible, but that would still be an indication of divine heritage. Sigurd said humans can't draw power from worship:
Something to ask Agneyastra or Olivie if we're curious: did Olivie display an unusually rapid increase in her non linker core abilities shortly after being crowned Empress, when she become the focus of worship for the entire Saint church? If yes, then that's moderate evidence she's (unconsciously?) drawing power from worship.
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- Germany
Indira's TAGGED/CHAMPION is Red. You're confusing this with the fact that her artificial vessel generates Green.
Sigurd stated it's obvious when you actually gain worship.
I finally got the short term tab of our Todo list ready.
Key for column E:
- 'y' - yes, confirmed in story post
- 'm' - mentioned in-thread, approved
- 'n' - not discussed
- 'd' - done
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Might start feeling it from those freed slaved soon.
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Er, not quite. He thinks it would be obvious, but also says he wouldn't really know:
So it'd be weird if Olivie was drawing power from worship without being aware of it, but perhaps there are passive benefits to worship that occur automatically? We don't know anywhere near enough about the mechanics of worship to say.
Anyway, an important clue to the nature of Tagged/Champion is Olivie has a weaker version than Indira:
This is consistent with the inherited divine spark theory: Indira was born a Royal Agni, and still placed in the top 20% of branch family spark strength when she became a Nagi. She didn't have the strongest spark, but was still well up there. Olivie meanwhile, only survived the Belkan Civil War because no one thought her important enough; she's pretty distant from the main Belkan line. If Saint Kings have a divine spark, whether naturally or from Agni interbreeding, you'd expect Olivie's to be naturally weak.
We really don't know, but it's plausible worship strengthens a divine spark, if the ascendancy from demigod to godling and godling to god is anything to go by. If so, this might also partly explain the relative strength of their 'champion' tags. Olivie has far more potential worshippers, but rules a relatively secular culture; Indira's been shaping her empire and establishing herself as god-empress for centuries. Olivie may also not have the proper mindset to properly benefit from her worship:
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
But we don't have it.
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- Germany
200-300 slaves, where only some of them believe in our divinity, might not be enough.
If Nanoha needs several hundred followers to reach godling, the next step up should require at least that many.
Except at least in canon, the Saint Church was a wide-spread religion. Yes, things probably went differently in Ignition, but that doesn't indicate a secular empire.
If we are going to train Overchannel anyway, might as well think about the questions during that.
I don't think we know about the apocalypse cult's present status IC?
If Vanyel doesn't direct us to any suitable people, we can get Sigurd to ask gods about it.
I don't think we need to borrow Sidhe's earrings. We can just summon her. What we should ask is how her land-drawing spell works, she may be able to help us with summoning costs.
Leaving Sidhe with Hayate was discussed in-thread, though. And, I think, it's the best option. Everyone else would do better by sealing Jewel Seeds. And if it comes to worst, Sidhe doesn't have a Linker Core, so she would be in less danger.
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We wouldn't, not anymore; the idea is heredity sparks are granted powers, naturally inferior to the real thing. Jade might have had Tagged/Champion originally when her mana awakened, but not after her Planewalker Spark ignited.
There may even be different tiers of 'tagged': perhaps the Royal Agni had something like 'Tagged/Ruler' or 'Tagged/Exalted'. Different levels of power, for different roles. When I first saw Indira's Tagged/Champion, I thought "Is that what Sylvester intended those who would eventually become the branch families to be? Champions, for those with a stronger spark? And is that why Jade can sense it? Is the ancestral memory contained within her spark saying Indira was meant to be her champion?"
It wasn't a particularly refined thought, but the general gist of the theory flowed from there. Still very speculative, though.
Relatively secular.
It's the difference between "I am a Saint who preaches peace and rules wisely" and "I am literally a goddess who looks after you in life and death."
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
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That seems fairly secular so long as you can prove that you can deliver on that promise.
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- Location
- Germany
Jade doesn't, but we'll probably encounter them, so I listed the cult but kept it greyed out.
There are hundreds of potential mages in Valdemar that won't miss their gift, several of them should be Adept-potentials. Vanyel's network of spirits keeps tabs on all of them.
Other nations value their mages, finding an Adept-potential who isn't interested in their gift would take far longer outside Valdemar.
I doubt a god would bother to help us with our search, so if Vanyel declines, we're on our own.
I already did a quick calculation on how much mana summoning at 0.5 time differential might cost.
Let's do a worst case scenario.
Because Mom valued safety over mana production, our capital on the Magi-plane only produces 2 motes.
Unison allows us access to 6 motes.
We might need to channel Neph to help us summon against the time differential. Let's assume 3 non-urgent sessions before, then waking Neph costs 12 motes.
If we add that Jade loses 3 motes and Nanoha's summoning cost might rise by the same, plus Mitra potentially gains 2 motes from Djinn powers...
The 'considerably more power' is assumed to be a factor of 2.
Nanoha + Mitra: (9+3 + 3+2)*2 +3 = 37
Sidhe: 7*2 +3 = 17
Ferrets: (3 + 2 + 2)*2 + 3*3 = 23
Worst case, total summoning cost: 12+37+17+23 = 89
Assuming our lands recharge once, we have 7+6 + 10*2 = 33 motes. Fire conversion adds 10+2 = 12 motes.
89-33-12 = 44 motes to be harvested.
Uminari is one of the best places on Earth 97 and produces only 1 mote. Mana storage wastes about 50%, so we need to draw from 44*2 = 88 lands. That's, quite simply, not feasible, regardless of harvest.
The earrings, in contrast, offer 6 motes capacity. The trick is that we can planeswalk with them, unlike temporary storage constructs. We can harvest Blue mana on e.g. the Magi-plane, refilling the earrings several times.
44/6 - 1 = 6.3, which means recharging the earrings 7 times off-plane. Of course, it isn't quite so simple: We can only use the earrings directly once per summoning, so 5 times. The other 1 1/2 charges need to be dumped into storage, again at 50% efficiency.
Ultimately, we end up with a maximum of 8 harvest-trips.
Keep in mind this is a worst case, but regardless of the scenario the earrings are effectively worth 5*6 = 30 motes here due to their storage capacity being refilled off-plane once per summoning.
Edit: Each ferret needs less than 6 Blue motes, so it's actually 6+6+5+5+3 = 25 motes effective value.
All right, changed to 'm'.
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