And in Ignition the classical four elements have been replaced by Light, Fire, Ice and Acid to correspond to the four remaining mana colours (with Black, of course, being represented by Grimm). As far as we know, those are the only four varieties that exist. One other variety that would make sense is the hypothetical Black Dust, which doesn't seem to occur on Remnant.
Ignition (MTG/Multicross, Planeswalker PC)
- Thread starter Alivaril
- Start date
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- fairy tail magi: the labyrinth of magic magic the gathering magical girl lyrical nanoha (magical girl) puella magi madoka magica rwby alternate universe spoilers unreliable narrator earned your happy middle feedback appreciated life slowly gets better metaknowledge is overrated never too much fire setting knowledge not required this can only end well what could possibly go wrong?
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That, of course, brings up the question of making alternatively Colored Grimm.
- Location
- Germany
That isn't quite what Alivaril told us:
Just because we know of the existence of these four types doesn't mean that the canon elements have been replaced.
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
...*sigh*
Also, from 2016:
So yeah, it's questionable how much stuff other than things from first couple of seasons is going to be in Ignition. Additionally, the idea that Weiss was necessarily using Gravity Dust in this setting, rather than simply using Dust in a specific color in an unusual way, isn't entirely supported. Basically, don't rely too much on the wiki here.
Well, he's also operating on setting information from several years ago. I think just Seasons 1&2. As such, the fact that Weiss was using a specific sort of Dust for that feat might not have been confirmed. The Earth Dust use was much more obvious, though.
That said, the fact that Jade has only seen four types being used is probably significant. It's entirely possible that those four types can produce effects outside their basic form, either in blends or just on their own, by manipulating them a certain way. Not sure, and I'm having a lot more trouble finding any more information on Dust anywhere in the thread. We need more data, and we could possibly get it simply by talking to Astra.
And asked by me, no less. Thanks for the reminder!
Also, the reply doesn't explicitly say that we have seen only those four (though it does seem to imply that). @Alivaril, have we seen other types of Dust?
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yes. The elements listed are some of the most common types of Dust. Exotic effects, such as gravity or shock, are generally made by treating or combining Dust, although there are rare deposits (rare enough to be used only for research, not mining) thought to be created by natural phenomena. You don't exactly need a lab for several types, either; shock Dust, for example, has been around for longer than reliably recorded history. Admittedly, it is far safer to transform even "easy" Dust with safety equipment than with one's bare hands and Aura. Many of the early experiments with infusing Dust into human bodies came about simply because people kept inhaling powered Dust after explosive mishaps.
(See also: "I meant to do that!")
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Well if they've figured out how to mix Dust from types other then those ones, and particularly types of different Colors then those ones, into those ones then we should probably learn how they did it because that sounds useful to do.
At the same time we should probably figure out how to convert the Mana in them into different Colors without breaking them down so that they can turn less rare types into more rare types; it'd probably stress their souls enough to count as training their Aura, assuming that that's a thing that they can do, as well so, you know, there's also that.
Personally i'm thinking that enriching remaining Dust with Mana gained by breaking other parts of it down might alow it to regrow and to be filtered through a soul; sort of just "hollow" the structure out, sort of like decellularized tissue, without breaking it down before filling it back up? There'd probably be a trick and some training to doing it...Maybe flooding it with Mana of a particular Color (either matching Color, contrasting Color, or lack of Color) until the Mana already in there sort of "overflows" from the Dust without breaking it down.
I can't help but wonder if we could make some tissue laced with Dust modified to be able to be emptied without being destroyed; it'd probably just end up being modified to have a high volume per unit of Mana and a ability to be "overfilled" without "overflowing" for a long period of time and being able to lose a "overfilling"/"overcharge" without completely breaking down; it'd probably be complicated and involve some upkeep costs.
On a semi-unrelated note; assuming that Grimm mechanics and Dust formatioin mechanics are related we should look into making Grimm-esque organisms unrelated to the Planes enchantment; not only would tying up Black Mana in a system that's not easy for a person to get root access to likely be good for the local population but we might be able to made something like a leach/clam/flower (? Maybe a rose flower type thing) Grimm that drains Aura to make Dust "pearls".
Gon'a be honest; the first time i saw that i thought that the propelling Glyphs she used were just straight up her Semblance and that every other use was Dust augemented.
I do wonder whether Dust could be pre-manipulated to produce abnormal effects when triggered.
Fuck me this quest has been running for a while...
I wonder if we could meditate upon processed, or naturally occering abnormal, Dust in the same way that we would with a spell or magic.
Completely unrelated note; i was having thoughts about things like metalic atom structure and electron behaviour and vacuum welding and i had some theories about making conductive, possibly superconductive, White/Red constructs and/or enhancements/enchantment; the structure itself would stay static but the components would be dynamic; very White/Red; should be possible.
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Script Mak3r
(Verified Sun God) (Verified Feathers)
- Location
- Hell of Blazing Fires
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ruby then sneezes, causing a second explosive mishap.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well Jade should be able to mix dust safely. At least safe for her. However I expect Mom can do it better.
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The Dust itself sure but i'd think that the Mana within them would be another matter.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wasn't it already established that Dust is Mana? And that Red Dust is delicious, whereas other kinds of Dust aren't nearly as safe to eat, even for a person with conceptual fire immunity.
- Location
- Germany
Yes on the eating part, probably on the "dust = mana" part. However, we don't have confirmation for the latter yet, neither IC nor as a WoG.
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Dust is a manifestation of Mana but i'm not entirely convinced that the structure of Dust completely maps to the structure of Mana making it up; the very least of why i'm convinced of this is that it was implied that Dust of identical Mana contents can decay into different effects.
Also we were able to eat other types of fire anyway so it would make sense that that was what was protecting us from the Red Dust anyway.
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Next update is tentatively finished and will be up tomorrow afternoon. Depending on beta feedback, I may extend the update a bit and stop for a vote later on, but that shouldn't delay it past tomorrow.
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I hear that changing the font on what you've written helps you reread it for errors; just thought that it'd be something helpful to throw out.
A bit of a tangent, mostly random musing:
I just found funny/interesting how now Jade actually made a good appraisal of Sigurd's soul this time. The closest to a good appraisal when making the summon bond was Agneyastra's and even then it was less descriptive and had more things to be interpreted... now that I think of it, it reminds me a bit of when Jade looks into a plane from the Blind Eternities.
Edit: bah, it's a mess having to deal with indented quotes
This part reminded me from the time Jade was holding Sidhe's soul way back when they first met.
I just found funny/interesting how now Jade actually made a good appraisal of Sigurd's soul this time. The closest to a good appraisal when making the summon bond was Agneyastra's and even then it was less descriptive and had more things to be interpreted... now that I think of it, it reminds me a bit of when Jade looks into a plane from the Blind Eternities.
Edit: bah, it's a mess having to deal with indented quotes
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That comparison actually seems incredibly apt; i'm surprized that nobody brought it up earlier...That said i've actually said something similar about something else recently only to be told that it had been brought up my multiple people multiple times so i won't be surprized if that's te case here as well...
38.1.2: Introspection (3 of 3; Vote)
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Special thanks to @saganatsu, @DB_Explorer, and my eight other patrons not mentioned here. An extremely enthusiastic pair of "Thank you"s to @Torgamous and @fictionfan for their patronage as well.
Beta-read by @Nixeu, @Vebyast, and @Nachtigall. Because of their feedback (hint, hint
), this update was a teensie bit longer and more legible.
Beta-read by @Nixeu, @Vebyast, and @Nachtigall. Because of their feedback (hint, hint
), this update was a teensie bit longer and more legible. The following day sees you brooding inside a stationary stealthed Stalker while Mom scouts out what might be the Blood-Adept's home. Nanoha and Sidhe were dropped off in the nearby markets, well away from immediate danger while still being close enough to come to your aid if necessary. Plan A was to leave them by the docks, but those smelled strongly of rotting fish, crops, and wood.
You're starting to understand why the Agni didn't simply make as many versions of Agneyastra as they possibly could. You don't agree with their reasoning, of course, but you can at least understand it. An enemy capable of fighting via physical projections and reconstructing a new avatar within a minute of losing their old one? That had to be frustrating.
…Wait, wouldn't they just purge the entire area and call it a day? Never mind, you don't understand after all. In the absence of any especially egregious subjects to rant at, your thoughts return to some of your more recent decisions.
You almost made a significant mistake in the form of an early visit to Karse primarily because you wanted to see them fail at attacking you. That's... honestly a bit of a problem, isn't it? Now that you're looking hard at it, the power fantasy even feels a little hollow. So they try to burn you at the stake; how would that work out? You'd basically need to let yourself get captured and probably sit around in jail for a few days just to reach that point. Honestly, given how corrupt Karse's priesthood is supposed to be, you wouldn't even be surprised if they tried torturing a "confession" out of you or attempting worse. Not fun.
You'd occasionally fantasized about leading a droid army against slavers or effortlessly blocking the attacks of your foes, but what are you supposed to do afterward? The Agni magical doctrine might be one of overwhelming brute force, but dodging is still a better idea unless you're trying to get them to surrender. Like many teenagers, you wanted power. Unlike pretty much all of them, you did grow powerful and found that state to be less thrilling than expected. You can blow up a city block; that doesn't mean you should. You can shatter concrete with a casual stomp; again, that doesn't mean you should. You could casually topple corrupt governments on your home world; if done recklessly, their replacements could be just as bad and you'd have a high-casualty power struggle in between. Much like eating Dust, there's a definite difference between what you'd think would be fun or satisfying and what's actually enjoyable.
The only long-term fantasy that's persisted is one of beating everyone at a Magical Girl arcade, but even that's likely to have less expressed amazement than you'd been hoping. Honestly, someone fawning over you would probably be creepy. There are still some recent power fantasies you want to follow through with, though, starting with stomping some Ethereal minions. Sure, their armor might be unusually resistant to Linker Core magic, but there's a definite difference between "resistant" and "immune." You can still pummel them into submission, too. The unfun flipside of that is the simple fact that killing many of them would still be wrong. You know that at least some of the aliens have inbred loyalty, but you're not sure which ones and all of the converted humans are potential future Skirmishers.
You'd also gotten the impression that the Ethereals wouldn't mess with you if you did help XCOM, but the justifications you conjured for their behavior might not be entirely accurate. You'd thought they'd stay away if you justified it to them as an uplift, but you're no longer certain that would explain their reluctance to engage after you started doing excessive damage to them. Or maybe it would; thanks to their self-induced soul surgery, Ethereals are literally insane. Whether it's due to caution, insufficient resources, or genuine insanity, the important part is that they shouldn't interfere — or at least, that's one of the important parts. You'll also need to remember that their technology isn't perfectly stagnant; they have most of a planet full of innovative humans on their side. If you give them the opportunity to steal or imitate some of your technology, they'll take it without a second thought.
The silence is broken by a short announcement from your adoptive mother.
"Our business here is concluded, Jade," she says blandly.
You blink at her and do your utmost not to gape. First the Hunter got one-shotted, and now this? You really had thought you'd need to help protect civilians, if nothing else.
"Aren't Blood-Adepts supposed to be dangerous? Were the local police really that strong, or…?"
"In their own home or at a chosen battlefield — such as the hostage-filled environment of a classroom or city street — perhaps Master Jovian would have been a threat, Daughter. In the heavily shielded private practice rooms of a local school for aspiring mages? He was not. Imagery of Master Jovian's hidden workshop was sufficient to convince one of the local leaders, Adept Horus, to at least investigate the apparent workshop, albeit with the warning that illusions were a common method of framing others.
"He was apparently convinced by the taste of the dirt near Jovian's home. That is not a metaphor; he willingly ingested a pinch of dirt and subsequently dry-heaved for over a minute. No apparent magical rituals were performed. Regardless, it was apparently a simple matter to turn the wards of the local school against the disgraced blood mage as an opening strike. Ward reinforcements were necessary for full containment and it is apparently likely Jovian will be kept there until judgment is completed.
"Incidentally, this situation demonstrates one of the flaws of utilizing non-Agni spies. The Wrath of God spell is ideal for purging an enemy facility from the inside. However, weaker mages will be surrounded by both artificial and living enemies. Infiltrators and spies should always be allowed more leeway, respect, and rewards than nearly all other mortals; theirs is a stressful and dangerous duty."
The only surprising part of
"Orrrr I could just default to respecting everyone and not getting upset if they act casual? Snubbing me would be rude and maybe worthy of a tiny bit of retribution, but not immolating them or something equally awful. I'd rather not be as feared as Indira seems to want."
"Forgiveness is your prerogative, Jade," Mom acknowledges. "Regardless, I believe it is time to retrieve the others and return to Sigurd."
"'Kay, Mom."
Noon sees you in a barren, sun-bleached crater near the eastern edge of the plains, idly twirling Red mana around your hands as you work up the courage to Overchannel. You don't think Gifts have a very long lifespan, so you shouldn't pester Kal'enel for one until you're actually ready to color it.
The ferrets weren't too happy about being caged while everyone else was still wandering around. Unfortunately for them, you really can't trust them to stay well beyond minimum safe distance. Sigurd, Nanoha, Sidhe — all of them understand they should stay far, far away until Mom calls them over. You honestly wouldn't put it past the ferrets to try cuddling even while you're literally on fire.
Mom is the only member of the group allowed to stay with you, her real body sitting snugly around your wrist while her avatar is nowhere to be seen. It's petty, but although Sigurd might be fireproof, he hasn't actually admitted he is. Offering to turn into a fireproof turtle-like creature isn't the same thing. Still, you don't plan on calling him out unless he continues concealing his abilities after leaving Velgarth annnnd you're procrastinating.
Bleh. Okay, let's get this over with. First Overchannel priority: Get more specifics on coloring Nanoha's Gift. Second: Improve my wings. Third… well, I'll figure that out as I go along.
And speaking of figuring things out as you go along, you really are wondering why your mana sense can let you see through the swirling orb of fire surrounding you. Is it pulling information directly from the Aether? That seems more like Blue's wheelhouse, but maybe you didn't give it enough credit. Red mages would be pretty weak if they were blinded by their own fires, right? Admittedly, accidentally burning themselves to death totally sounds like a thing you could see people doing, but thaaaaat's not what you're supposed to be focusing on. Or it is, kinda, since you want to make sure Nanoha doesn't do that.
While a normal Gift might change over the course of a mage's lifetime, Velgarth's colorblind versions… don't. They might grow a teensy bit as they're used, but they don't change; they're the soul equivalent of "one size (poorly) fits all." Precog-you's proposed ritual would use some of your soulfire and connection to Nanoha in order to reforge the framework into a shape more appropriate for her. Admittedly, it still wouldn't be a perfect fit and she'll suffer a few months of mood swings and decreased impulse control while it settles. You know that Nanoha would accept those side effects with a smile, yet you're one of the people who'd need to deal with embarrassing, awkward, or even dangerous impulses.
Nanoha might be too sweet to kill or maim someone, but you might have a tough time talking her down from threatening slimy politicians, people who hurt your feelings, or misguided individuals. She was making friends by punching people long before you met her and the settling Gift would only encourage such tendencies. However, as learning how to blow up city blocks might've taught her some self-control, she might actually be more inclined toward embarrassing acts instead. You can definitely see her publicly kissing you out of sheer spite if anyone ever mocked your budding relationship. Even once her demigod status settled, it'd likely still (indirectly) leave marks; it's easier to act outgoing or impulsive if you've already done so and nothing went horribly wrong.
Meanwhile, two to four months would pass before you returned to full strength. If you met Indira during that time, she might be a little less than impressed — if you met her alone. If she met you and Nanoha at the same time, though? What you did would be obvious, startling, and would rather effectively communicate that Indira shouldn't even dream of hurting your crush.
(Ascension Personal Mana Change: [RRRRRR] -> [RRR] -> [RRRRRR])
(Nanoha's Production: [N/A] -> [RRR] -> [RRRRR])
(Nanoha's Production: [N/A] -> [RRR] -> [RRRRR])
There is a second version of that ritual, though. It would leave Nanoha weaker, would only grant resistance to fire instead of outright immunity, and would fail to provide a bunch of miscellaneous benefits — including a stronger mana sense, safer Overchanneling, and an easier understanding of Red magic — but would only cost about a third as much and would barely affect Nanoha's emotions at all. Overall, Nanoha would be left closer to Sidhe than one of the Agni of old. Fewer emotional effects would render her less of a danger to others, but a lack of fire immunity would increase her likelihood of accidental self-harm.
(Magecraft Personal Mana Change: [RRRRRR] -> [RRRRR] -> [RRRRRR])
(Nanoha's Production: [N/A] -> [RR] -> [RRR])
(Nanoha's Production: [N/A] -> [RR] -> [RRR])
Of course, an improved understanding of magic doesn't mean a perfect understanding. Just look at your wings! You worked and worked and worked and arguably missed the point of what you were doing. You're making wings of fire, not just wings made from fire. The distinction there is pretty important.
Fire isn't just a heat source. It burns, it consumes, it cleanses, it transforms. Humans huddle around campfires to warm themselves, to cook, to bond, to plot, to grow, to live. Furnaces melt chunks of metal so that blacksmiths might forge them into more useful tools. Candles allow humans to continue their activities long after the sun has gone down. Torches and towers of light guide explorers and seafaring ships to safety. Early combustion engines transport goods and services across landmasses large and small. Later vessels propel themselves to space atop plumes of fire.
More important than all of that, however, is the fact that it's a symbol. Most worlds have some variant of discovering fire and using it to lift themselves beyond the Stone Age. It's civilization, freedom, activity, ambition, and other words you think you used about thirty seconds ago. Oopsie.
Poets are Red,
Scholars are Blue,
And your flaming wings
Reflect more than you.
The point is, wings of fire are meant to be more than just two attractive masses of burning Red mana. They're the symbol of a dynasty beginning with the best of intentions and ending with burning planets. They're the bonfire of hope to soldiers fighting against formerly impossible odds. They're a reminder that the power you wield can devour those close to you if it's not properly directed. They're a recovering girl's response to the callous children who claimed she was worthless and creepy.
But most of all? They're progress, not perfection. They're a planeswalking princess's patiently prepared plasma phoenix plumage. They're yours, they're you, and holy shit you're an egg you can work with this.
(Ability Improved: Pyrokinesis [27 -> 40])
(Ability Improved: Red Mana Constructs [61 -> 75])
(Ability Discovered: Kindle Phoenix Chick [Rank ?])
(Ability Improved: Red Mana Constructs [61 -> 75])
(Ability Discovered: Kindle Phoenix Chick [Rank ?])
You dart a quick glance at your soul to make sure you have enough time left. You do. You feel a bit ridiculous for complaining about the nice toys other colors can get when you had this sitting under your nose. You are a walking, breathing analogy and magic might not have a mind to appreciate the comparison, but it does remember what a phoenix feels like. It also knows of phoenix births from impatience and ooooh that did not go well. On second thought, you should really get back to this after thinking it over; you don't want to literally become a bird even if it does fit you pretty well. You'd probably never Overchannel again if that happened and you're having too much fun to give up Overchanneling. Even your introspection is fun!
Buuuut since you still have some Overchanneling time left, you'll at least make a pile out of your Soul Gem and some fire Dust powder and wrong thing. Nanoha! Nanoha is who you were supposed to be focusing on. Her rituals really aren't as difficult as you'd first expected; love is among the larger sources of Red mana and self-destructive love is comparably common. Just look at children: parents spend years being awoken at there-is-no-God o'clock, yet people still keep having and loving babies. Harming yourself for the sake of a loved one is powerful even when the harm is temporary. The rest just comes down to the properties of mages, souls, Velgarth Gifts, and your Spark.
Strictly speaking, you should ask Nanoha for her opinion on ritual types and you will, but you know she'll accept either version. That just leaves you to pick which of the two ritual versions you'll perform once Kal'enel delivers. Precog-you wouldn't be any extra help; you already grabbed the memories of what might go wrong with the stronger version. Your friends and Mom might provide extra feedback, but such hesitation would itself be harmful. This kind of magic cares most about what you feel, not about what's sensible.
[] Demigod Version (Temporary Cost: RRR)
[] Mage Version (Temporary Cost: R)
(Requires >60% of votes to win.)
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] Demigod Version (Temporary Cost: RRR)
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
[X] Demigod Version (Temporary Cost: RRR)
Voting for this, though honestly dealing with a more impulsive Nanoha might end up genuinely irritating. Still, permanently gimping her for the sake of a few months of irritation would be a dick move.
Voting for this, though honestly dealing with a more impulsive Nanoha might end up genuinely irritating. Still, permanently gimping her for the sake of a few months of irritation would be a dick move.
Archeo Lumiere
The Prince's Archivist
- Location
- Lumiose City, Kalos
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
[X] Demigod version
You said that she'd kiss us and it sealed the deal
You said that she'd kiss us and it sealed the deal
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Even the short-term problems are effectively irrelevant. For example, even immediately following the ritual we'd be net neutral on mana generation:
The irritation and so forth, meanwhile, will be indistinguishable from normal teenage hormones. Remember that Nanoha is, what, twelve or fourteen right now? Yeah.
[X] Demigod Version (Temporary Cost: RRR)
Jade -3 mana/day, Nanoha +3 mana/day.
The irritation and so forth, meanwhile, will be indistinguishable from normal teenage hormones. Remember that Nanoha is, what, twelve or fourteen right now? Yeah.
Yup.
[X] Demigod Version (Temporary Cost: RRR)
- Location
- United States
[X] Demigod Version (Temporary Cost: RRR)