They're not only want to blow it up but do it when the speaker is speaking!

Now, that, is terrorism... Hopefully, they only blow up the speaker and Advent, not the civilian.
Pretty sure we could make the thing collapse in a way that probably kills nobody.
Sure accidents will happen, but pyrotechnics are a thing, and we are exceptionally well suited for that sort of thing.

But i'm not sure killing the speaker would be considered terrorism.
There is already an active war going, and i think high ranking government officials are legitimate targets.
Just need to act to minimize danger to civilians and we are golden.
Pinpoint flamestrike from the sky to incinerate the Speaker?
Shaped explosion from directly beneath the podium?
 
As I understand it the plant grew in the transmitter which damaged the safeties that would have prevented a theft, but removing it wouldn't undo anything.
Here is what was said:
Just as our own computers radiate excess heat, the more important alien devices bleed excess psionic energy. Several otherworldly species of plant appear to require this energy in order to survive and grow.
The flower may have disrupted the power supply. With it removed, the transmitter may just reactivate and proceed with the anti-theft measures (i.e. explode).
 
He didn't have the legendary tactical skills of the previous commander and the troops knew it. At least life was looking up,

With any luck, he wouldn't need to be the Commander for much longer.

An impending operation to rescue a legendary tactician who led the Resistance during the initial alien invasion, yet is never referenced by name? One who is slated to take over leadership of XCOM, despite being absent for decades?

My video game protagonist sense is tingling. This is how the story of XCOM 2 opens, isn't it?

First and foremost, the readings we've been getting out of her 'stomach' are nothing less than astounding. If it were merely a disguised bomb, we'd be seeing much more thermal bleed into the environment than we actually are. Instead, her body seems to using the vast majority of all energy provided. For what, I cannot say, but it is clearly being used for more than just simple motivation and cognitive processes. Active Sectopods consume less energy per second than Princess appears to."

If they're impressed by her stomach, just wait until they get an idea of how much energy Jade's Linker Core generates. Almost a shame that they (probably) lack the means to detect it.

"You could just have her stage a distraction," Joseph observed. "Many of my concerns stem from the fact that metalskippers could apparently carry and plant X4 charges. We don't have to trust her to have her blow things up. Topple the Speaker's dais during the speech, she'll grab all the attention we could ever want."

There was a short pause while Joseph looked between Bradford and Vahlen.

"...I can't possibly the only one who thought of that."

Stage a bombing during a speech of what sounds like ADVENT's chief PR rep? I like the way this Reaper guy thinks. That does sound like a job for an Agni.

So long as it's done remotely via Parasites, instead of Jade introducing herself as ADVENT's Public Enemy #1, I'm okay with this plan. It'd be an excellent favor to trade in exchange for the armor commission/research.


I'd prefer to avoid a complete scan of our vessel, and don't really see any need to get anywhere important. They probably won't let us on the Avenger anyhow, especially shoud we reveal our hammerspace since it means we could smuggle in anything.

No getting around it, I'm afraid. Trust must be extended if we expect to receive trust in return. Besides, they lack the tech base to reproduce most (all?) of Jade's vessel, so there's very little reason to refuse.

Damn. I had hoped Agneyastra would take the psionic flower instead. Jade is still at the Pilgrim outpost, can we please grab it? Not only is it interesting by itself, I want to know how it interacts with Rapid Growth.

Don't get greedy. We can always find another psionic transmitter. A minor shiny isn't worth harming initial relations with XCOM.
 
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its not a matter of deception, its a matter of how the law works and how laws are created. you have to define practically everything when writing a law because its going to be torn apart over and over by people either attempting to exploit or circumvent it. that, combined with politics, is how you end up with really convoluted laws that have to define things so specifically that they practically become recursive, self referencing, and 'technically' wrong. I am not saying that your wrong about the science, I'm saying that, by and large, all the law cares about is creating a logical argument/statment, using logic not necessarily facts, to create a rule with certain conditions and applications. if it has to redefine words to do that, then law makers will.

edit: i do think that if they do this they need to make those changes transparent and clear to everyone involved. its not the definitions that are the problem. its concealing that you defined things in that way that is.

This being said i totally agree with you that this was primarily written this way to ban as much weapons as possible, weather this was a political move or an attempt to future proof the law against possible future technologies, probably both? either way i am sure the governments involved knew about it when signing, as this is the kind of stuff they actively look for when making treaties and such. move-over its pretty strongly implied that enforcing this law is a lot harder than its looks like at first glance as the politics involved are so crazy and the TSAB stretched so thin i dont see a way for them to do so with any real effectiveness out side of blantent offenses.

Of course this avoiding the elephant in the room that the term was picked by a manga/anime writer, not a scientist or a politician.
Except, like you said, they can use whatever set of words they wanted if they laid out that definition. Why use "mass-based weapons" to refer to anything non-magical, if not to incline someone, be it some nation they just encountered or their own people, to think first of kinetic weaponry, and not of more precise weapons like lasers, when they hear the term? It's a manipulation tactic, plain and simple. They could have used "non-magical". They didn't.

As for it being invented by a manga author, I suspect it was originally referring to kinetic bombardment, and got extended to other types of weapons in later installments. Or that's my best guess, anyway. Either that, or poor translation.
My read on the Mass Weapons issue is that the TSAB probably dusted off an old archiac law, written back when the choice of weapons were Magic or Metal. In which one depends upon F=MA for damage and the other does not.

It'd be easier to pass such a law(or possibly a constitutional item, given that mass weapons were associated with past disasters, it could very well be written into the TSAB founding charter), with its attached set of precedents and simply add an amendment to update the defintions to include all non-magical weaponry.
Usually, one would just tack on other terms, rather than stretching an older one out to cover all the new things. Still, I could see that happening, especially in common parlance.
An impending operation to rescue a legendary tactician who led the Resistance during the initial alien invasion, yet is never referenced by name? One who is slated to take over leadership of XCOM, despite being absent for decades?

My video game protagonist sense is tingling. This is how the story of XCOM 2 opens, isn't it?
Yep. I'm a touch worried that this is a trap for XCOM in this, though, either an ambush, or that the Commander has been compromised somehow. Maybe I'm just paranoid, though. It seems like the win conditions have changed, and maybe even the Great Commandy One will need our help to win. Otherwise, the Commander being around kinda reduces our need to intervene.
Stage a bombing during a speech of what sounds like ADVENT's chief PR rep? I like the way this Reaper guy thinks. That does sound like a job for an Agni.
Guerrilla warfare is a Reaper's bread-and-butter. They're masters of stealth, explosives, and sabotage. Oh, the fun you can have with them. They can shoot with a chance not to break stealth, especially if they kill the last guy who could possibly see them (100% chance, vs 50% or less). Pair that with a nice sniper spot and Squadsight (ability that means a sniper can hit anyone your units can see), and you have a headshot party. The claymores that go off when someone shoots them and the ability to explode explosive objects without breaking stealth is just icing on the cake. They're OP, is the TL;DR.
Are you kidding? Just look at the smug fucker.

He's also a lizard-person. Not even a joke, he's one of the last "Thin Men", infiltration units from the first game. They're usually called Vipers in XCOM 2, since they're now in their natural form: snake with arms (and boobs, for some reason).
 
He's also a lizard-person. Not even a joke, he's one of the last "Thin Men", infiltration units from the first game. They're usually called Vipers in XCOM 2, since they're now in their natural form: snake with arms (and boobs, for some reason).

I think there supposed to be 'venom sacks'. Considering the shear amoint of poision they spit out i can believe it, though that does make it weird that thin men can spit with nary a sack to be seen.
 
'Eyes the thread,' ... walked right into that one didnt i? :(

That over and done with the bigger question is how the heck can the viper king spit... what ever he spits. Cause that some bullsht right there
 
If they're impressed by her stomach, just wait until they get an idea of how much energy Jade's Linker Core generates.
Considering our linker core recharges slower if we don't eat as much, I'm pretty sure part of the reactor output is used by our LC.

So long as it's done remotely via Parasites, instead of Jade introducing herself as ADVENT's Public Enemy #1, I'm okay with this plan.
Or... we could publicly interrupt his speech by introducing us to the Speaker as a princess of the Agni empire. XCOM just wanted a distraction, it's perfect! :rofl:

No getting around it, I'm afraid. Trust must be extended if we expect to receive trust in return. Besides, they lack the tech base to reproduce most (all?) of Jade's vessel, so there's very little reason to refuse.
I don't really see why they need knowledge of our vessel if we don't plan to visit their base.
XCOM has access to MELD, so I wouldn't bet on them being unable to replicate anything. Besides, everything we reveal to them will eventually end up in the hands of the Ethereals, who already proved with the Chosen that they can reproduce similar tech.

Don't get greedy. We can always find another psionic transmitter.
I explicitly wrote to take the flower, not the transmitter. XCOM is only interested in the latter.

@Odysseus2099's idea to only take clippings is great though.
 
I don't really see why they need knowledge of our vessel if we don't plan to visit their base.
XCOM has access to MELD, so I wouldn't bet on them being unable to replicate anything. Besides, everything we reveal to them will eventually end up in the hands of the Ethereals, who already proved with the Chosen that they can reproduce similar tech.

I mean im pretty sure we can work around the issue. The odds of us ever visiting the avenger are low already so i dont consider it much of a loss to never fo there and they already know we have other interests beside them. If we tell them our body is proprietary technology and considered a strategic resource/tech im pretty sure theyd back off pretty quick to avoid causing a conflict. Their despreate and paranoid, not stupid.
 
I don't think we should let them do any detailed scans of anything we don't want to see them rebuilding.
And that definitely includes our body, linker core, anything with an AI, and most definitely our heirloom.
Sure they probably would not be able to rebuild them, but even inferrior copies might become a problem down the line.

They want knowledge, let them trade for it.
 
I don't really see why they need knowledge of our vessel if we don't plan to visit their base.
XCOM has access to MELD, so I wouldn't bet on them being unable to replicate anything. Besides, everything we reveal to them will eventually end up in the hands of the Ethereals, who already proved with the Chosen that they can reproduce similar tech.

It's about establishing credentials. Jade's vessel is one of the most convincing pieces of evidence we can offer to support her Outsider nature. The more XCOM trusts us, the more they will be willing to trade, and less we have to worry about possible sabotage. Seriously, this is something we should be volunteering for.

XCOM could learn some interesting tidbits that might let them incrementally improve EXALT's body-mods, but... that's not really a problem? We kinda want to subtly uplift the Resistance by doing stuff like that. And if it's truly possible for them to learn anything important from scans, Agneyastra will no doubt object, or demand suitable compensation in return.

I explicitly wrote to take the flower, not the transmitter. XCOM is only interested in the latter.

@Odysseus2099's idea to only take clippings is great though.
"It appears to be a broken communication relay of some sort. I have extracted the computational and Elerium cores for further study. There also appears to be some manner of wilted violet plant growing inside, but I cannot extract it without doing significantly more damage to the relay."

It appears to be vital component, and you saw how Doctor Vahlen responded to Jade stealing the Elerium and computational cores. Clippings would risk further damaging the transmitter's function. I repeat: don't get greedy.
 
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Temp. Threadmark: Vessel Replication
@Agneyastra: Are the "more sensitive" sensors they'll use to verify Gift of Tongues, Muffle, and Rapid Growth likely to find out more than we're comfortable with about our royal vessel?
Besides, they lack the tech base to reproduce most (all?) of Jade's vessel, so there's very little reason to refuse.

Agneyastra is apparently of the opinion that if they can get something useful out of your vessel with their technology level, whatever solution they devise can only benefit your ability to keep your secrets safe from Belka people like Jail. Just like normal human bodies, the structure of your artificial vessel is heavily interconnected and would not work well without its other parts. They'd have an awful lot of trouble isolating specific useful genes or supplementary reinforcement without — just as an example — stumbling across the repair instructions for your metal bones. Using them on normal human bone would Not End Well.

If a high-resolution scan was all someone needed to steal Agni secrets, you wouldn't have secrets. It's outright disassembly that starts to cause problems, but that's what a ruptured stomach is for.

Agneyastra can cycle a geneset to replace an obsolete portion with something more helpful. Other people would not have nearly enough of a map to do so.
 
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Considering our linker core recharges slower if we don't eat as much, I'm pretty sure part of the reactor output is used by our LC.
It's the other way around: we can subsist on LC energy alone. That's why Jade and Sidhe had to eat so much while not having a Linker Core.
It appears to be vital component, and you saw how Doctor Vahlen responded to Jade stealing the Elerium and computational cores. Clippings would risk further damaging the transmitter's function. I repeat: don't get greedy.
Unless you mean "a vital component in stealing ADVENT transmitters", we were explicitly told that it's a weed.
 
I don't really want to blow up the speaker. I would rather interrupt the event by coming on wings of fire and giving our own speech.
 
In conclusion: If ADVENT starts fielding those little monsters, we are all going to die in our beds. Assuming the lab results don't throw up any red flags, you might as well trust Princess. We either die a little quicker or get the aid of someone who could turn this war back around.
And there's the result we needed: Not trusting Jade is the difference between a fast death and a slow death, so might as well trust her and hope.
Topple the Speaker's dais during the speech, she'll grab all the attention we could ever want."
Do we have any objectives nearby that we could roll this into? For example, do we want to use this opportunity to pull and gank the area's Chosen? Do we have a good way to profit from the distraction the same way XCOM intends to, any installations we'd like to hit or anything?
I think we'll all agree that flight is more dangerous than conventional movement despite the apparent elegance of metalskipper engineering."

"That glorified hovering hardly counts as tactical flight. Drones were little more than twitchy skeet and cyberdiscs needed to stop whenever they fired.
They're going to shit themselves when they find out what our full envelope looks like.
 
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I don't really want to blow up the speaker. I would rather interrupt the event by coming on wings of fire and giving our own speech.
If we decide it's not against our long term goals, i am so in on this plan.

Do we have any objectives nearby that we could roll this into? For example, do we want to use this opportunity to pull and gank the area's Chosen? Do we have a good way to profit from the distraction the same way XCOM intends to, any installations we'd like to hit or anything?
Smash and grab is always usefull.
At minimum, knock out bunch of Advent troops and steal them and their stuff for study.
Hit any and all gene clinics close by, they are always full of alien stuff in the backrooms.
 
Alternatively, ICly, it should be relatively obvious that this is to cause a distraction. Do we have objectives of our own that would yield the same amount of disruption? For example, tell XCOM that we have a line on the Ethereals' psychology, explain the weird "make humans stronger" thing, and lay out our plan to buy ourselves some space to maneuver by claiming strength through war with the Ethereals?
 
It's about establishing credentials. Jade's vessel is one of the most convincing pieces of evidence we can offer to support her Outsider nature. The more XCOM trusts us, the more they will be willing to trade, and less we have to worry about possible sabotage. Seriously, this is something we should be volunteering for.
Credentials aren't worth offering major Agni secrets for free. That said, apparently we don't need to worry about Dr. Vahlen learning too much. So we just need to make clear that whatever scans they take of our body are to be stored and classified in a way the Ethereals can't steal them under any circumstances.

It appears to be vital component
As curiosity said, it's a weed. Good catch on not being able to extract the entire plant, but that shouldn't stop us from getting clippings. It is at least partially accessible, otherwise Agneyastra wouldn't have noticed it since the PT was outside her sensor range.

@Alivaril: Actually, could she have stored the PT+flower and separated them inside her subspace?

you saw how Doctor Vahlen responded to Jade stealing the Elerium and computational cores.
You misread: She was indignant when one of our parasites temporarily took the PT, Which we returned after the Pilgrims mentioned that XCOM wants it. We didn't keep anything, except potentially clippings of a weed.

Do we have objectives of our own that would yield the same amount of disruption? For example, tell XCOM that we have a line on the Ethereals' psychology, explain the weird "make humans stronger" thing, and lay out our plan to buy ourselves some space to maneuver by claiming strength through war with the Ethereals?
As @fictionfan and I mentioned, we could just use the public event to introduce Jade. No need to mention in front of the media that we'll partially side with terrorists, just mention that we're interested in helping the Elders with their uplift of Earth. Give them inconsequential information (like some alternate Earth tech) as a gesture of goodwill, but keep all shinies.

XCOM gets the desired distraction, Jade gets a platform to present herself.

Not sure whether we want to do that, but it's an option.
 
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