Rule 4: Threadbanned.
Dude... When asked to drop something, an affirmative response should consist of some form of yes, and possibly an apology. Nothing more.

What you were doing was 'yes I'll drop it but first let me make sure I get the last word'.

Sure, maybe you dropped it after, but it's pretty rude to stay on the topic for the rest of your post just so that you can have the satisfaction of the final say.

'Sure I'll stop stealing cookies but let me just finish the one I already started eating.'
Claiming that someone else is always going to try to "get the last word in" was a meme started by people who can't actually argue against any given point but still want to gaslight someone into thinking that their doing something wrong anyway; given that you are using it i am somewhat disenclined to lend credence to your oppinion, which in this case is the assertion that it was rude, or the reasoning that lead to it forming.
You've basically phrased this in one of the most antagonistic ways possible and hit multiple buttons in the process.
  • "We gave them the souls of our new friend and some Witches" - You gave Siofra those Witch souls when she demanded them and simply didn't have the firepower to remove Siofra's curse without serious risk.
  • "Because we weren't willing to..." We don't even have to read the rest of this sentence. What the playerbase "wasn't willing to do" is utterly irrelevant at that point, as you are essentially saying it wouldn't have happened had they gone with the following plan.
I was working under the understanding that someones willingness to do something would naturally stem from their desire to have a outcome that those actions would cause, and thus that stating that someone is unwilling to do something would naturally imply that they have less desire for any given outcome then their desire to retain what any given cause for those outcomes would cost them; naturally this would mean that anyone that it would apply to would not have those "buttons" for what i said to press.

And from a purely logistical standpoint, anyone that controls Siofras mind, which is implied to be that one god by the brand/seal/enchantment of Blue Mana that is apparently on her, would naturally control both her soul, and the location of the Witch souls that she transported via a spell controled by her mind, which i feel the need to stress was understood to have been compromised by hostile forces.
While this would have been an improvement, see above for how your idea of "what was done" was problematic. Unfortunately, you then make things worse by following "I should have stopped" with not stopping:
I am using writen format to convey what i am saying; as long as i am not taking up time that someone else could use to speak in a conversation there is no difference between saying one thing and saying any given number of things. I could have filled the charactor limit for my comment with text art of dickbutt, after having writen my comment, and it would not have made the slightest fraction of a difference, so filling it with vague grumblings about things that bother me should make just as little of a difference to you.
Not only do you not stop what you apologized for a mere sentence before, you double down and do so in additional detail.
As a point of fact, i did not; i will apologize for insisting that we should take this course of action, or even that, should we chose to take said course of action, that we should use my plan for taking said course of action, but i will not appologize for claiming that, if we had a desire to take a course of action, we would be taking exactly that course of action, even if that course of action was mostly waiting until we were strong enough to follow through with a plan we had made (Or, you know, a plan to make a plan later when we had more options to string together into something like a plan). To claim otherwise, i feel, would be...Insulting, for a lack of a better word.
This ascribes negative motives to other people and says, essentially, "this would've been possible if people were actually willing." Oh, and let's not forget the starting "people just don't want to do it enough." As a side detail, in the very post you were replying to, I gave you actual (exasperated) Word of God your plan would go horribly and you're still at it.
I'm not ascribing negative motives to anything; personally distasteful, yes, but not negative in the sense that i feel you are probably using it; just because someones desires are not my own does not mean that i feel negatively about them; it means that i try to convince them that they might desire what i do because of what those things can do for them, and if that doesn't work, then oh well, you can't always get what you want.

And at this point my plan boils down to making a plan (possibly after checking IC whether or not project "Would you miss it?" would be logisticly feasible #highfantasymath) that would achive the objective of stopping that one god from having control of that seer whos name i forget; the only way that you could give Word Of God on that is if you wanted to fully claim that something would be impossible, regardless of method, for a Planeswalker.
This doesn't help any.

Look, your people skills are, to put it bluntly, honestly terrible. I suggest just recapping (or actually, just linking them) IC events the next time you're trying to do a "factual" description of events; you nearly always, if not always, let your opinions bleed into it and those are seldom positive ones.
I was under the impression that when i was being oppinionated about the things i was, to the best of my ability, factually bringing up it was clear that that was sepperate from my...Conveyance (?) of events; if it was not clear that i was mostly just trying to express my oppinion of events while giving a recap of them, as opposed to claiming they those oppinions were facts, then i am honestly, truely, deeply sorry for any confusion or offence that may have caused anyone.
The sad thing is that I'm actually fairly sure Marcus isn't being a deliberate troll, and just really sucks at human interaction and communication. If he is a troll, I don't think he'd have taken the time to refine his often insane suggestions and respond to people pointing flaws out. I've even gone to PMs with him to refine those ideas. If he's a troll, the amount of time and effort he puts into it is impressive, to say the least.
I wouldn't say i suck that badly; i manage well enough as long as people aren't putting almost all the focus of a conversation on distinguishing, and making it easier for others to distinguish, between what any given person is and is not sorry for, or, god forbid (for a lack of a better phrase), someones ability to apologize on command; i hear that's a thing that some eastern subcultures do.
Marcus?

You could avoid SO MUCH of the constant self-inflicted harm you do to your own reputation if you'd just learn to do one thing.

When other people tell you you're committing a social mistake...

...And you don't see how what you're doing is a mistake...

BELIEVE THEM. Just believe them. Accept that yes, you made a mistake, even if you don't exactly understand why, and that a careful argument for how it's illogical for them to think you made a mistake will not work and will in fact not even be relevant. Because you missed important facts, which are influencing their perceptions.

You could make yourself so much more convincing and so greatly decrease the temptation to ignore you, by following that one rule.
I don't believe anyone who can't explain why they believe what they believe; why would those beliefes be worth enough to have them if the people who carry them don't even know why they are doing so? Like, it's perfectly fine if i am wrong, and people can explain why i'm wrong, but if their just going to keep claiming that i'm wrong without even giving a explaination about how/why then all that it amounts to is white noise, and the fact that a group rather then a individual is saying those things doesn't change how utterly worthless a oppinion without even any reasoning, evedence based or not, internally consistant or not, to back it up; now that reasoning may very well exist, and may very well not have any flaws in it while pointing our flaws in my reasoning, but there is no way to determine that if said reasoning is never brought into the conversation in the first place.

Honestly, and you say i'm rude? You are rude, for reasons.

tl:dr; claiming that you should believe people because you are probably wrong even if they can't explain why is how gaslighting works, and has thus lost all ligitamacy to me, so back up on your claim or back up onto something else.
 
Rule 3: Civility. Do not share messages from conversations without permission. Please keep this in mind in the future.
"What? ...Seriously, stop looking at me like that! It's a perfectly good plan, okay?"
[] Yes, that's why we're worried.
I started a conversation with him to see if I could figure out where he's going wrong socially and help him with it, and it devolved into this:
I want you to learn how not piss everyone off whenever you try to interact with them.
Going to need some more motivation here; it seems like it would be easier to piss off everyone and them make it up to the people i actually like, and that's assuming that i would ever interact with anyone likable, which, imo, i a massive, massive, assumption to make with all the...Well, you know how people can be.
Note how the best defense Nixeu can muster against accusations that you're a troll are that you're too consistent and invested in stuff, and Alivaril's is that you are occasionally capable of learning.
...Alright? Is there a point to that or are you sort of just trying to slap rude sounding lables onto me until i give in and toe the party line? Because "if you don't do what i'm telling you to you are going to be trolling people" is sort of a shitty reason not to do something to someone who doesn't care about people very much. It's sort of like trying to convince a paperclip maximiser not to make paperclips because it would break down all the sculptures of fluffy bunnies; logically correst reasoning, but without any baring on my actual decision making.
In light of this, while I agree that he's genuine, taking the same measures as with a troll seems justified.
 
I am using writen format to convey what i am saying; as long as i am not taking up time that someone else could use to speak in a conversation there is no difference between saying one thing and saying any given number of things. I could have filled the charactor limit for my comment with text art of dickbutt, after having writen my comment, and it would not have made the slightest fraction of a difference, so filling it with vague grumblings about things that bother me should make just as little of a difference to you.
...I have discovered someone worse at human interaction than me...

I am astounded.
 
"...I mean, I guess I'm happy she wants me, but I kinda already have you? And I doubt she'd be willing to just drop her own empire to come gallivanting across the planes with us. Also, she's probably Lawful Evil. So, um..."
Well, Agneyastra herself-
Sidhe and Nanoha chuckle weakly, apparently treating Agneyastra's Mother's parting comment as a joke. Unfortunately, you remember too well how her moral compass begins and ends with what would benefit you. You can easily see her desiring the ability to obliterate a mage-filled city just in case.
Exactly.
 
i c wut u did thar

"Magnostadt is one of the largest cities on the planet," Mother begins abruptly.
"Look, a distraction!"
It is doubtful we could simply break inside even if we were to make an attempt to do so. Yet."
...Aren't we pretty sure that Agneyastra went nuclear while we were messing around on Remnant?
"Smart, but they probably wouldn't change it," Sidhe remarks. "Which is bad. If my goal were destabilizing Magnostadt, I'd just keep assassinating leaders until I couldn't get away with it anymore. They've certainly shown their method of succession is horrifyingly unclear."
You and Nanoha both give Sidhe slightly suspicious stares. Why has she been thinking about the best ways to destabilize a foreign nation?
Sidhe: "Why hasn't anyone else been thinking about it? It's basic geopolitics! Tell them, Agneyastra!"
Jade+Nanoha: *staring at Sidhe* -> *glaring at Agneyastra*
"Indeed, my young apprentice." /smug
 
Honestly, I kind of want to do option two and limit it to "this is a thing that exists," but my experience with Nasu mages is saying bad idea, meanwhile my memory of Magi says they wouldn't care unless we do stuff without magoi or else we are just a new variety of "King".
 
I think it might be a good idea for us to try giving them some sort of Barrier Jacket or similar defense while we're there?

"It'd let them sort out their issues without permanently hurting one another,"
Sorry Nanoha, but it doesn't work like that. A back-stabby and cut-throat socio-political structure won't just magically become nice and fluffy because you gift them some magic-armour. If they solve their disputes with Deathbattles, giving them the ability to shrug off a single lethal blow will just mean the fight lasts until one side lands two lethal blows.

Probably best not to engage in amateur-hour social engineering with a foreign power. We are not the police of this place and lack the power-base or knowledge to take over.
 
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Sorry Nanoha, but it doesn't work like that. A back-stabby and cut-throat socio-political structure won't just magically become nice and fluffy because you gift them some magic-armour. If they solve their disputes with Deathbattles, giving them the ability to shrug off a single lethal blow will just mean the fight lasts until one side lands two lethal blows.
To be fair, some of the duelists will agree to fight to the first lethal blow (taken on the armor) and then the loser concedes whatever it was they were fighting about. It's a way of establishing who has more power, and consolidating control. But yeah, it won't eliminate the backstabbery, just reduce it a bit.

I don't believe anyone who can't explain why they believe what they believe; why would those beliefes be worth enough to have them if the people who carry them don't even know why they are doing so? Like, it's perfectly fine if i am wrong, and people can explain why i'm wrong, but if their just going to keep claiming that i'm wrong without even giving a explaination about how/why then all that it amounts to is white noise, and the fact that a group rather then a individual is saying those things doesn't change how utterly worthless a oppinion without even any reasoning, evedence based or not, internally consistant or not, to back it up; now that reasoning may very well exist, and may very well not have any flaws in it while pointing our flaws in my reasoning, but there is no way to determine that if said reasoning is never brought into the conversation in the first place.
If you keep making the same category of mistake, and having to have it laboriously explained to you, and everyone except you seems to perceive you as making the same mistake...

Maybe something's wrong with your mistake-detector?

I mean, you've got that whole aspiring rationalist thing going, right? What's your Bayesian prior on "Marcus sense of when he's behaving appropriately is suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect?" If the prior probability is being treated as 'zero,' you're doing it wrong.

tl:dr; claiming that you should believe people because you are probably wrong even if they can't explain why is how gaslighting works, and has thus lost all ligitamacy to me, so back up on your claim or back up onto something else.
No see, the problem is that you're failing to perceive something literally everyone around you sees. You're not being gaslit, you're being warned.


It's like, if a man with severe body odor starts being told he needs to wear deodorant, the smart reaction is to buy deodorant, not to accuse all his remaining friends of gaslighting him. The Bayesian prior on "I have a problem that I have trouble perceiving" may be low, but the prior on "everyone is a conspiracy to trick me into abandoning my sweet beautiful rational thought processes in favor of maliciously gaslighting me into someone who believes that social norms aren't established by stubborn argumentation" is really low.
 
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I mean, you've got that whole aspiring rationalist thing going, right? What's your Bayesian prior on "Marcus sense of when he's behaving appropriately is suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect?" If the prior probability is being treated as 'zero,' you're doing it wrong.
Marcus has also indicated that he doesn't care whether he's behaving appropriately, so gotta take that into account.
 
Everyone, please focus on the update and points raised by other players instead of Marcus. This is kinda the textbook definition of an ongoing thread derail and I'd like it to get back on track. ^^;
 
Claiming that someone else is always going to try to "get the last word in" was a meme started by people who can't actually argue against any given point but still want to gaslight someone into thinking that their doing something wrong anyway; given that you are using it i am somewhat disenclined to lend credence to your oppinion, which in this case is the assertion that it was rude, or the reasoning that lead to it forming.

My dude. Spectral Waltz is not gaslighting you.

They're making the reasonable assertion that if someone else wants you to drop a line of conversation, it's courteous to drop it without further comments or explanations. When someone asks you to drop a line of conversation, they almost certainly don't want to hear further comments or explanations; continuing to explain yourself is disrespectful and goes against their implied (if not explicit) request.

This is still a polite thing to do even if you don't think you're being rude. Saying "I don't think I'm being rude" or anything in that vein doesn't honor their request, and it's generally taken as patronizing, to boot. If you want to say "I don't think I'm being rude", don't say it to their face.

There are times when politeness doesn't matter, but right now we're playing as an imaginary character on the internet for funsies.

EDIT: Posted before I saw OP's response.
 
Everyone, please focus on the update and points raised by other players instead of Marcus. This is kinda the textbook definition of an ongoing thread derail and I'd like it to get back on track. ^^;
That's fair. I'll take the obvious route towards not having to pay attention to the derail subject, *click,* and move on.

Anyway, I think that we're best off with

[] Let Agneyastra offer telepathic advice, but try to handle official interactions yourself. It's not as though you're trying to set up trade routes or anything similarly complicated.
-[] You just want to make it an official "Hello!" visit, not one requiring diplomatic negotiations.

Establishing ourselves as friendly, but not exerting enough pressure to further enhance the chaos within Magnostadt, sounds good. And it means we don't have to worry so much about accidentally mortgaging the farm, so to speak, which makes it a safer opportunity for Jade to get some diplomatic experience.
 
This quest has been back all of a day or two, and it's already full of salt.
I'm gonna have to do a reread, because I have no idea what's going down plot wise.
 
Establishing ourselves as friendly, but not exerting enough pressure to further enhance the chaos within Magnostadt, sounds good.
While not intentionally destabilizing a nation is generally a good rule of thumb, Sidhe does have a point and if I remember correctly the primary victims of the renewed backstabbing would be members of an apocalypse cult.
 
"I would not assume her offer was made entirely out of the goodness of her heart, Jade, although her actions are surprising enough that I wouldn't eliminate it either. Becoming your adoptive mother would restore her status as an Agni and make her the effective ruler of the Agni Empire until and unless you can manage at least five minutes of prolonged combat with her. Given as she undoubtedly merits SSS-rank by now..."

You scowl and cross your arms.

"Got it. Combined professional and personal win for her, but she'd be stealing my stuff as one of those wins. Can't we just, like, acknowledge her as an Agni or something? It seems to mean a lot to her."

"That would let her 'steal your stuff,' Daughter," Agneyastra says dryly. "To say nothing of the possible effects of acknowledging an individual who appears to have deliberately cultivated a reputation as an unstable megalomaniac. I expect politically distancing ourselves is in our best interests."
I'm thinking Oath to the effect of us promising to officially adopt her into the Agni family as soon as doing so wouldn't have unavoidable negative repercussions, as well as leave the family name to her should we die as long as said death was not caused by her.

Everyone has that one relative that is a little bit...Politically incorrect, but that's no reason to hate them for it; their family.
"Pause a moment, please. Isn't she supposed to be unrepentantly evil or something? Why does she get to be your family? You haven't even really met her yet, right?"

You tilt your head to one side and try to figure out what Sidhe is trying to say. Because she does? That's the way it works.

"...We're blood related?" you hazard eventually. "I'm not sure what you're trying to say, honestly. There are reasons some people claim friends are like family members you can choose. Could you please rephrase if I misinterpreted you?"

Sidhe's face scrunches, your friend appearing to think there was something somehow confusing about what you said. A suspiciously prolonged stare from Nanoha seems to change it to comprehension.

...Oooookay then?
She might be wondering how the...Functionality (?) of how families work effects her at this point; we should probably explain that just because she's family doesn't mean that we won't hesitate to Befriend her through a planet if the need should arise from her doing something stupid enough so much as it means we're going to pull her out of the wreckage afterward and get her help once force isn't needed.
"We need only get inside the city for a short period of time—half an hour at the very most, if you desire a static timeframe. However, Magnostadt is famed for being a city of magic and wonders, both of which you could benefit from observing and imitating. We may wish to stay for longer as a result. Given the twin existences of magicians and King Candidates, those who acquire power by conquering Dungeons, it is unlikely they will take your divine status seriously, even with a Wrath of God used high in the skies above their city. Their belief is not required.

"My tentative plan is to use two Seekers to warn them an hour ahead of time, then approach them in full regalia as the divine rulers of a foreign kingdom, one interested in forming a mutual defense pact with Magnostadt. Thanks to their ability to fly and high maneuverability in general, mages and King Candidates remain the primary weakness of our Droids. Even having five experienced magicians available to defend our forming kingdom would go a long way toward ensuring it remains intact in our absence. However, given their current political instability, I have no intention of forming a proper pact; as they will almost certainly admit doubts to your status in private, I will use their own lack of belief as a reason to avoid it. Possibly a trade of several Seeker and/or Predator droids in exchange for a few mages taking up permanent residence in our own nation. Either way, it will ensure they are not our enemies, which is the most important part.

"As I am effectively your proxy and required to admit such, it is likely those we negotiate with will attempt to use you to acquire more favorable terms should they have objections. I would ask that you avoid acknowledging such requests and simply refer them back to me. Alternatively, you may use this opportunity to practice interacting with others as the divine princess of a nation with me taking an advisory role instead, Daughter."


Sidhe raises her hand. "We discussed it some while you were vividly hallucinating and I'm not quite sure it will be that simple. Unless matters have changed in the weeks it would take for news to reach here, Magnostadt still has no actual leader since the assassination of the last one. We'll probably provoke another round of infighting should we try to open any sort of actual negotiations, fake or not, and that might lead to a possibly-lethal duel being fought while we're there. Good from a learning perspective, not something the local culture finds anything except entertaining, possibly horrifying for you should someone actually die."

Nanoha shoots Sidhe a frown and stretches one arm upward.

"But mages here are kinda weak without their shields. I think it might be a good idea for us to try giving them some sort of Barrier Jacket or similar defense while we're there? Nothing complicated, just a Burst Layer."

"Um..."

"A Barrier Jacket used to block a single blow of up to middling strength," Agneyastra translates privately. "Difficult to make and maintain at range, but several orders of magnitude easier than attempting a full-fledged Barrier Jacket."

"It'd let them sort out their issues without permanently hurting one another," Nanoha finishes. "I mean, unless they have a new leader or political system or something by now."

"Smart, but they probably wouldn't change it," Sidhe remarks. "Which is bad. If my goal were destabilizing Magnostadt, I'd just keep assassinating leaders until I couldn't get away with it anymore. They've certainly shown their method of succession is horrifyingly unclear."

You and Nanoha both give Sidhe slightly suspicious stares. Why has she been thinking about the best ways to destabilize a foreign nation?

In response, your friend and household member raises both hands defensively.

"What? ...Seriously, stop looking at me like that! It's a perfectly good plan, okay?"
A better idea would be to set up a puppet regime; we could use things like Oaths and backdoors in the equipment we give them to make sure they get their shit together fast enough to keep their shit together in the future; we don't even need to control them so much as we need to get them to not be in conflict.
Ok, permit me to explain something. When communicating with other people, EVERY WORD YOU SAY is GOING to be considered. Period. It doesn't matter if it's a tangent or a cogent point or if you didn't quite intend to phrase it that way, every word is considered.
...No it fucking isn't; there are people, here and elsewhere, who will regularly dismiss my every second word i say if it patchworks what i say into something they can strawman, so if they can do that when it's convenient to them then others can do so when it's slightly polite. Good god man, i get that it's impolite to go too far off topic, but there's a fucking limit to what you can bite someones head off about.
No see, the problem is that you're failing to perceive something literally everyone around you sees. You're not being gaslit, you're being warned.


It's like, if a man with severe body odor starts being told he needs to wear deodorant, the smart reaction is to buy deodorant, not to accuse all his remaining friends of gaslighting him. The Bayesian prior on "I have a problem that I have trouble perceiving" may be low, but the prior on "everyone is a conspiracy to trick me into abandoning my sweet beautiful rational thought processes in favor of maliciously gaslighting me into someone who believes that social norms aren't established by stubborn argumentation" is really low.
That's all well and good but the fact that you're unable to go into deeper reasoning about why i should do what you specificly tell me to runs that probability up a little higher, but even that doesn't matter because your argument being functionally indistinguishable from that of a gaslighter means that, regardless of how likely it is that you actually are one, there are going to be precautions against them (ie; Insisting on hearing peoples reasoning on why they do what they do before doing what they do) that you must be able to have not effect you, and the fact that you are, you know, not able to, is sort of...Worrying, for both of us. Like, this isn't much of a problem unless you're a psycopath because people tend to have emotional reasoning for following these things even if they can't figure out the logical reasoning for them, but all the same you are a living person; this shouldn't be hard for you.

And by the way, there is a world of difference between something like personal hygiene, which is a objective phenomenon which bioligical organisms are hardwired to avoid, and going on a tangent when it goes against common practices, which can more easily be compaired to local fashon; if you're going to oversimplify in the hopes that people will be impressed by your belittling skills you should at least do it right.
Well then, @Marcus.D.Basterd , cards on the table:

Is the primary purpose of your attempts at communication to induce others to ignore you? Because assuming Torgamous is telling the truth, that would be the primary consequence of your actions.
Well, i mean, it might; i don't really pay enough attention to figure out what the primary one is as long as at least one of them is getting decent conversations going, and none of them are being counterproductive to that effort.
My dude. Spectral Waltz is not gaslighting you.
Well, i mean, i know that that's probably the case, but, by definition, you can't just trust your own judgement on things like that, and thus need to follow some basic procedure on things. Like, there are people who will pull some of this shit (allegedly) without even realising that their doing it, like how some people don't realise that their echoing a bias or fallacy, and about the most random and minor of things.
They're making the reasonable assertion that if someone else wants you to drop a line of conversation, it's courteous to drop it without further comments or explanations. When someone asks you to drop a line of conversation, they almost certainly don't want to hear further comments or explanations; continuing to explain yourself is disrespectful and goes against their implied (if not explicit) request.

This is still a polite thing to do even if you don't think you're being rude. Saying "I don't think I'm being rude" or anything in that vein doesn't honor their request, and it's generally taken as patronizing, to boot. If you want to say "I don't think I'm being rude", don't say it to their face.
I'm not trying to claim that i'm not being rude; that ship has long since passed, but i feel the need to at least state why i said the things i said; at that point it is less a wish to sway others and more a desperate hope that people will refrain from just smiling and nodding; a agreement to disagree until further notice, a amicable separation; not just people going "this conversation is over now".
 
"Pause a moment, please. Isn't she supposed to be unrepentantly evil or something? Why does she get to be your family? You haven't even really met her yet, right?"

Yeah. Sorry, Sidhe.:V

"Got it. Combined professional and personal win for her, but she'd be stealing my stuff as one of those wins. Can't we just, like, acknowledge her as an Agni or something? It seems to mean a lot to her."

"That would let her 'steal your stuff,' Daughter," Agneyastra says dryly. "To say nothing of the possible effects of acknowledging an individual who appears to have deliberately cultivated a reputation as an unstable megalomaniac. I expect politically distancing ourselves is in our best interests."

That's incredibly annoying, because putting everything aside, her getting kicked out of the main branch was really messed up.
 
Warning: Also desist
also desist Okay so, this was a fun read. I'm not actually going to award any points here, though.

First off, @Marcus.D.Basterd , your disruptive behaviour in here and repeated inability to let things go forces me to escalate from your previous three-month threadban to a permanent threadban. You may still read the Quest, but you will no longer be an active participant.

As for the rest of you, if a thread has degenerated from discussion about the most recent update, the story in general and tangents thereof, into people yelling at each other and effectively arguing about arguing, please consider stepping back, hitting that report button and leaving it be. There is no need for three pages of people telling someone why and how they're wrong in a Quest thread.

Apologies for the delay, thread unlocked.
 
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