I expect that it is something fairly basic. Unfortunately Earthland doesn't have an internet so our knowledge is woefully incomplete.
Or we just never asked the question or thought to look for the answer, and Alivaril has been practicing his Kyubey impression again. That is definitely something we need to ask Astra about at some point in the near future. It's entirely possible that such a thing is discussed in the magic books we picked up.
 
Well, Siofra basically told us she spent ages digging around for info on how to use her affinity. Slogging through cold and wet caves and searching oversized book collections I believe was the phrase.
 
[x] Ask Agneyastra to give Sigurd the superferret schematics with her telepathy so that he can try turning into one.

Would this be okay?

Don't think telepathy can transmit something that detailed, but Agneyastra would likely veto.

Handing out technological secrets is always a dicey proposition, but it's an especially bad idea when talking to an agent of the local gods currently connected to a country-wide telepathic network.

Except...he shapeshifted into a bioengineered species already. Kyree are magically bioengineered, yes, but still bioengineered. If he can mimic a gryphon and fly naturally, then he could probably even do the more magic type adaptations, if they have any, since they partially use magic to fly.

"Natural" might have been a poor word choice on my part. As a former high-ranking extraplanar of gods-know-what age, Sigurd is probably intimately familiar with just about every creature that exists on Velgarth, magical or otherwise.

...Come to think of it...how do Earthland mages usually figure out their affinities?

Practice. Lots of practice. Trying out lots of different spells, and seeing which ones feel right.

This topic is a pretty ideal one to burn a Neph question on, imo. Neph's likely seen many possible futures experimenting with Ethernano magic, and should be able to just tell us the affinities outright, or at least give us a very good start.
 
As far as we can tell, an ethernano user's affinities are directly observable in their day-to-day and habitual spellcasting. To a tee. The one that shoots weaponized rainbows has a light affinity. The one that creates treants has a wood affinity. The one that animates objects has an automation affinity. The one that throws fire has a fire affinity. The one that flies has an air affinity. Siofra does metaphysical research, binds spirits to use their affinities, and can see peoples' souls and futures without even trying. It's not hard to figure out that her affinity is something related to souls and destinies. It's just that that powerset is rare and she has to either do everything from scratch (when most people can just steal stuff from other people) or hunt down unbelievably arcane lore (probably from people long dead and, given the sheer utility and bullshitness of her affinity, not likely to have written down their secrets).
 
Leading theory is probably a form of Seith magic? I'll also note she had some ability to enchant items.

I mean, we could also just like, ask people around her what they thought her specialty was?
 
Well, Siofra basically told us she spent ages digging around for info on how to use her affinity. Slogging through cold and wet caves and searching oversized book collections I believe was the phrase.
How to use it, sure. I'd just like a basic idea of what spells we're potentially competent with. Hell, I'll settle for ruling out specific types of spells. And there really is nothing stopping us from exploring possible affinities and avenues Siofra ignored. In the same way not all Ethernano Fire Magic is identical, not all uses for any given affinity are going to be the same. The route Siofra took need not be ours.

Hell, from what I can tell, with enough practice, we could master any magic, at least hypothetically. Mostly because of Astra's research and perfection of the Origin. Taking the "muscle" analogy forward, we can keep flexing our Origin in any given way, and slowly improve the "tone" and fitness for that action, without risking permanent damage from overdoing it too much. It's not as efficient, to be sure. But it can be done.
Practice. Lots of practice. Trying out lots of different spells, and seeing which ones feel right.
Which I could believe...if not for that fact that a compelte lack of any detection method would require the Dragons and anyone else from canon who shopped around for children with rare affinities to have to take the time to teach the tykes complex magic, only to discover they lack any talent with it.
As far as we can tell, an ethernano user's affinities are directly observable in their day-to-day and habitual spellcasting. To a tee. The one that shoots weaponized rainbows has a light affinity. The one that creates treants has a wood affinity. The one that animates objects has an automation affinity. The one that throws fire has a fire affinity. The one that flies has an air affinity. Siofra does metaphysical research, binds spirits to use their affinities, and can see peoples' souls and futures without even trying. It's not hard to figure out that her affinity is something related to souls and destinies. It's just that that powerset is rare and she has to either do everything from scratch (when most people can just steal stuff from other people) or hunt down unbelievably arcane lore (probably from people long dead and, given the sheer utility and bullshitness of her affinity, not likely to have written down their secrets).
Which, again, I'd buy...except for cases like the Dragons and Grimoire Heart, where someone had to be actively looking for affinities that, by their advanced nature, can't show in the most basic types of magic. How would you determine affinity with, for example, the Arc of Time, without an external means of detection? Especially when Ice magic probably comes just as naturally to the only person we've seen use that magic. There's got to be some other method than just looking at what comes naturally.

Also, Soul Magic affinity is not that rare, or even all that taboo. Fairy Tail had a pair of mages with it, one of whom animated objects by stuffing human souls into them. No one ever really seemed to mind much. And the other guy channeled the spirits of animals to do...something. He was a side character who never fought much on-screen. So I really suspect that her Forsight is probably the one that took her all the effort to learn. Seith magic seems to be much more common than foresight.
Leading theory is probably a form of Seith magic? I'll also note she had some ability to enchant items.

I mean, we could also just like, ask people around her what they thought her specialty was?
Seith Magic has to do with binding wandering souls, and containing them to produce effects. So, sounds about right. And yeah, that's an option. I'm just wondering if we haven't missed something basic, here.
 
On the subject of Karse. People have been talking about dealing with it, but I generally get the impression that we don't want Jade to go around killing them all and we can't exactly arrest them. What about taking away all of their mage-gifts? I gather that their whole stick is to fake miracles using magic. If we take away their magic they stop being able to do that.

Also can anyone think of a good use for a whole load of likely blood tainted mage-gifts?
 
Otherwise, the Dragons would just be picking up kids at random, and hoping they have an affinity for Dragon Slayer magic.
That argument might apply in canon, but for Ignition, Sidhe's adoptive parent wanted "single-element channeling", so we can assume that the dragons simply looked for children with mana magic of the appropriate color.
Besides, even assuming they had a method to detect candidates, it could be limited to finding those with an affinity for the dragon's own element, and the technique could be a secret of the dragons.

This topic is a pretty ideal one to burn a Neph question on, imo. Neph's likely seen many possible futures experimenting with Ethernano magic, and should be able to just tell us the affinities outright, or at least give us a very good start.
Just in case Neph didn't observe all that many scenarios (exactly because people want to try divination and Seith magic but little else), I'd like to try a single fully-randomized spell from the Ethernano magic tomes we have. That way, Neph will be able to see us try all spells from those tomes.

What about taking away all of their mage-gifts?
That would take an elaborate ritual each time, and I somehow doubt they'll just wait for us to finish it.
 
Last edited:
That would take an elaborate ritual each time, and I somehow doubt they'll just wait for us to finish it.
Knock out with linker magic then do it. Or maybe that first part isn't needed don't know how much easier the ritual is if we are not trying to minimize pain.

I am imagining going back to Magnostadt with a bunch of black mana generators and telling them. "These are to help you during your transition to more moral sources of power. They were made from the mage gifts of immoral mages that did not heed my warnings." I think that it might help get the point across.
 
Last edited:
:Citation Needed:

Which kinda messes up the rest of your post. We don't actually know why we can so easily mimic Ethernano magic with mana. I don't think I've even seen that hypothesis proposed until now, though my memory isn't always right. I really don't see why that would be the case, especially when our learning speed buff applies to all magic, IIRC, not just mana magic, as the rest of your post seems to be implying.
Can't provide a citation for a random thought. It's original content. :V
So it doesn't mess up anything. I provided a thought, as stated. Then I provided what I knew supported it. I didn't know of anything that contradicted it, obviously.

I don't imply that our learning buff is for mana magic only, I imply that those particular effects are easier accomplished with mana magic.
Which I could believe...if not for that fact that a compelte lack of any detection method would require the Dragons and anyone else from canon who shopped around for children with rare affinities to have to take the time to teach the tykes complex magic, only to discover they lack any talent with it.
Just a simple precognition would be enough for that. It's a yes/no answer: "would this person have an affinity for my magic?"
Alternatively, they may have something else that detects a specific affinity. So it won't really help us to find out our own, except by elimination.
 
Just in case Neph didn't observe all that many scenarios (exactly because people want to try divination and Seith magic but little else), I'd like to try a single fully-randomized spell from the Ethernano magic tomes we have. That way, Neph will be able to see us try all spells from those tomes.

It's important to remember that Neph doesn't see all possible futures. Take Jade's brief experience in Magnostadt as a rough guide: she's constantly experiencing visions in a dream-like fugue, but those dreams still use up a bit of time in the real world. An hour long study session actually wouldn't matter much compared to the several weeks worth of visions she's already seen. If Neph can't already provide an answer, no attempted hack will make any real difference.

(In fact, this method is amusingly useless. Sure, the spell is randomly selected... but the moment it's picked, all relevant visions from then on will be about learning that one spell.)
 
Last edited:
An hour long study session actually wouldn't matter much compared to the several weeks worth of visions she's already seen. If Neph can't already provide an answer, no attempted hack will make any real difference.
Except that Neph can direct her visions and deliberately explore the scenarios where we tested our affinity for all those spells.
And you have provided no argument against the "future Jades only really investigated divination and Seith magic since those are obviously related to our Origin" hypothesis.
In fact, this method is amusingly useless. Sure, the spell is randomly selected... but the moment it's picked, all relevant visions from then on will be about learning that one spell.
We won't use the RNG right now, duh. We commit now to studying an RNG-selected spell later, which gives Neph until the moment of selection to go over the results of all those timelines before they collapse.
I also considered committing to studying a random spell after channeling Neph, but that would mean Neph's visions might be influenced by the results ofher own precog, which has a considerable chance of failure.
 
And you have provided no argument against the "future Jades only really investigated divination and Seith magic since those are obviously related to our Origin" hypothesis.

It's not like we're lacking for ideas to try, even working off the limited knowledge we have now. You've suggested using Siofra's fight against Calypso as a guide for experimentation; in the timelines where we didn't unlock Neph so early (which should make up the majority of Neph's visions thus far, since she was very surprised by Jade making contact) that might have been one of the avenues we'd have started with.

We won't use the RNG right now, duh. We commit now to studying an RNG-selected spell later, which gives Neph until the moment of selection to go over the results of all those timelines before they collapse.

That does avoid the 'see the same spell every time' trap... but it's still likely a drop in the bucket compared to what Neph's already learned.

Here's the key: when it comes to gleaning summarized factual knowledge, distant visions are just plain worth more. Looking ahead a day can tell you the result of trying out a single spell... while looking at a scene several months in the future can give you the conclusion reached from months of non-random study, including instruction from teachers. It's like the difference between viewing a single lab experiment, vs reading a master's thesis.
 
Last edited:
On the subject of Karse. People have been talking about dealing with it, but I generally get the impression that we don't want Jade to go around killing them all and we can't exactly arrest them. What about taking away all of their mage-gifts? I gather that their whole stick is to fake miracles using magic. If we take away their magic they stop being able to do that.

Also can anyone think of a good use for a whole load of likely blood tainted mage-gifts?
Give them to other people? Try to turn them into a source of mana, similar to what Suryastra did? Not a whole lot of options, there.
That argument might apply in canon, but for Ignition, Sidhe's adoptive parent wanted "single-element channeling", so we can assume that the dragons simply looked for children with mana magic of the appropriate color.
Besides, even assuming they had a method to detect candidates, it could be limited to finding those with an affinity for the dragon's own element, and the technique could be a secret of the dragons.
Given that said dragon discarded Sidhe, I suspect they can't actually detect mana magic. Otherwise, it would likely have kept pushing until she awakened her magic. And, even if the method is limited, and/or secret, it's worth asking Astra about. Because, if it isn't, we're overcomplicating things for no reason, and if it is, we lose very little.
Can't provide a citation for a random thought. It's original content. :V
So it doesn't mess up anything. I provided a thought, as stated. Then I provided what I knew supported it. I didn't know of anything that contradicted it, obviously.

I don't imply that our learning buff is for mana magic only, I imply that those particular effects are easier accomplished with mana magic.
The issue being that, hypothetically, we should then stop seeing those techniques as mana magic once we master them, and I don't think that's actually happened. We learned enough from watching their fire mages to replicate it, after all. Plus, all those Ethernano spells we've observed? They're listed separately from mana magic on our sheet. It seems more like a "we can do this with either power source" thing, rather than anything else. Hell, they even seem to share skills, for the most part.
Just a simple precognition would be enough for that. It's a yes/no answer: "would this person have an affinity for my magic?"
Alternatively, they may have something else that detects a specific affinity. So it won't really help us to find out our own, except by elimination.
I'll take eliminating options, if I have to. It give us a place to start. And precog is really uncommon, and implied to be something you have to be born with to boot. Control seems rather lacking in the limited canon examples, as well.
 
Last edited:
Next update should technically be ready tonight, but I have relatives from the opposite side of the US coming over and want to be able to answer questions when it does drop, so it's being delayed until tomorrow morning.
 
V/S Q&A Compilation
Special thanks to @saganatsu, @DB_Explorer, @LonelyWolf999, and my eight other patrons not mentioned here. An enthusiastic pair of "Thank you"s to @Torgamous and @fictionfan for their patronage as well. Numbers going up make my brain produce happy chemicals~

QM's Note: This is a compilation of earlier posts in the Vanyel and Sigurd Q&A session. It contains no new content, so if you've read that, I'm afraid this author alert was made of lies.



[X] Relative risks of Karse city versus countryside.

:To be perfectly blunt, I think the city is more likely to have stuff you can ignore. Think of it as a number of atrocities per area, not number of atrocities per population. Publicly executing one troublemaker in a city draws more attention than in a village, so the frequency might be the same, but you might also need to visit more villages just to find an unused gift.:


We shouldn't have to go digging for this; they're adults and can decide what information is relevant.

: Actually, that's not really a safe assumption. I'm not exactly the most knowledgeable of mortal specifics and Vanyel can't give even solicited advice past a certain point. Unsolicited is even more constrained. It's part of the whole deal that lets him stick around for Valdemar; the evil gods still got the short edge of the straw, though. 'Oh, they'll get one defender and in exchange, the gods won't meddle as much with mage-Gifts? What a steal!' Idiots.:


[X] Likelihood of remaining uninvolved in Karse if we need to go there. What kinds of detection do the have set up?

:Honestly, they're quite likely to figure out you're a 'priest' within a few minutes. You aren't exactly what I'd call subtle.:

:And this comes from a man who wore a white uniform and rode a white horse, so he knows what blatant is.:


[X] Likely entanglements - exactly how high on our list should they be when we have time to deal with them properly?
: Please, at least take the time to do a proper purge instead of just dealing with the problem in front of you. This is a rare scenario where ignoring an issue would actually help more than dealing with it. With your access to rampant Gate-travel, I expect you could manage it within a week if it's done well enough, but less than that and you might make matters worse.:


[X] Expected densities of gifts in the Karse countryside versus the city.
:More people, more Gifts. Finding users who haven't had theirs build up to an unstable point isn't exactly easy, so there should be more of them in Sunhame.:


One of the issues is that we're bound by, basically, a non-interference treaty; if we involve ourselves in the wrong kind of politics we lose treaty protections and get instantly gibbed by the nearest hostile deity.
:Actually, it's more that hostile deities can freely attack you if you effectively attack them. Some of them might have lent a bit of support to the sunpriests, but Karse isn't theirs; you can freely meddle without incurring more than just their displeasure.:


[X] Flight time to Karse compared to Dhorisha Plains
Insignificant differences because Stalkers are BS.



Sorry, I meant - What kinds of entanglements would we expect to see, exactly how bad are things there? This is a question of prioritization rather than simple ability - once we have two weeks free, would it be better spent on purging Karse or on something else? Is the situation bad enough that we should defer some other action that's on our to-do list in favor of clearing our schedule for two weeks so we can nail Karse to the wall?

:The worst you'd probably see is rampant embezzlement of church tithes, excessive taxation of starving followers, and burning 'Witches.' Yes, Karse needs-:

:Stopping you there, Ashkevron. On the one hand, yes, Karse definitely deserves to have more time. On the other, its entire population is smaller than one city where Princess Jade comes from. We can't exactly demand she spend all her time solving problems, so let's let her focus on the problems of other planes and take what we can get, alright?:

:...I never did like the 'needs of the many over the few' mentality.:


:Just think of it as needs of a big empire versus a little kingdom and she can only pick one to help.:

Should we... Try and talk to the local sun god before going over?

Is he likely to be upset by our presence? Or moved at all?
:I already tried; I couldn't find him. Like I said, pretty sure he's asleep. I mean, it could just be that he doesn't want to talk to other spirits right now, I guess; I'm sure some evil-aligned gods have previously harassed him. That sort of thing always happens with gods.:


[X] Out of curiosity: would Kal'enel want to speak to us if we visited the Plains?
: Oh, definitely.:


[X] Would Sigurd be recognized as a Companion in Karse?
:Ehhhh... probably not? Well, okay, maybe a little. Okay, yeah, probably. We can dye my fur, but the eyes are a bit distinctive.:

"Maybe we could give him sunglasses?" Nanoha suggests.


[X] Do the Sunpriests use mind-affecting magic? Little low on the mana we'd usually use to defend against that at the moment.
: Bright Havens, yes. I generally see them lead up with tormentor demons and hammer the sleep-deprived afterward. Incidentally, are you aware that your shields are down right now?:

You jerk your attention back to your mind and immediately flood the dead ward with fire.

"Was wondering when you'd notice," Sidhe says cheerfully. "I basically quoted your thoughts, you know?"


[X]Mom have you scouted out Karse yet? How long would you expect it to take?
"I do not know, Daughter; multiple hours to a day, excluding the length of any negotiations with a possible donor. I expect a sufficient show of wealth should render any negotiation brief, however."

[X]What if I pretended to be a high level priest when going around the countryside? Could I fake it? Might even be able to stop some atrocities by authority. But Mom could copy any symbols of office or passwords. If anyone questions me I expect that setting my hair on fire and glaring would go a long way.

: Princess,: Vanyel says patiently. : Setting yourself ablaze would elicit the very same premature war-footing we want to avoid. I believe your best bet of remaining undetected is to remain undetected. Skirt around the edge of villages and simply do your utmost to sense signs of recent magic-usage.:

:And Vanyel is too polite to say it, but you have a snowman's chance in the Elemental Plane of Fire of actually convincing them you're anything approaching a high-ranked priest. Imitating a foreign priest of the same deity would be hard enough, but a local priest? Women have a tough enough time holding any sort of rank even without your inevitable mistakes. You haven't read their holy book, don't know any of their ceremonies, don't know the proper way to address others, any of that.:



Would we face some issues due to being female in either place?

:The shin'a'in would need to be idiots to discriminate; their goddess is a goddess. Karse's capital would view you with trepidation as a high-ranked foreign priest, but I don't think you'd experience more than some moderate disrespect. Being female shouldn't be a problem at all if we actually keep our heads down while searching villages.:

[X] How would the Shin'a'in react to Sigurd?

:They'd probably admire my sheer awesomeness.:

:...I want to contest that assessment, but Grove-Born Companions technically are taken from among the higher classes of spirit. Any shaman that sees him will be very respectful.:


[X] What is a "friend-marker?" A local guide, some kind of magical mark, or what?

:A magical marker bound to a physical object, usually a chit of wood on a piece of dyed rope. You wear it around your neck so shamans can sense its presence and scouts will be able to verify your status from a distance.:

:Expect plenty of 'friendly greetings' as scouts get closer to make sure it's not a forgery. To be fair, they will be friendly, they just have more than one motive in approaching you. I always liked Kal'enel's approach to culture: warm, but a warmth with purpose.:


[X] What can you tell us about the Swordsworn?

:They're often called "Black Heralds" by those who are familiar with them, so there's that, but they don't quite have the same strict standards as that lot. Any Shin'a'in can swear themselves to Her service as a Swordsworn, becoming clanless, sexless, magicless, and earning the right to declare blood-feud. You really don't want to fight any of the older ones; many deceased Swordsworn will go on to become dream-teachers for the living, so if a Swordsworn has had enough time to learn the lessons of past generations, they're fairly close to unstoppable by lone targets. A group of them could effectively challenge you, flight or no flight.:

: But don't harm their charges and they'll be your best friends. Kal'enel demands simple service from those sworn to Her, not emotionless devotion; they're still allowed to have fun.:


[X] Just to doublecheck: Kal'enel wouldn't be able to attack us, right? Nor inclined to even if she wasn't bound by the treaty?

:The Star-eyed is the single most benevolent deity I've yet had the pleasure of interacting with. She can't and won't do anything to harm you unless your actions would cause a second Cataclysm in the immediate future.:

:His list has something like three gods on it and Vanyel here is practically one of Her worshippers anyway.:

:...Five,:
Vanyel admits reluctantly. :Maybe six. Plus the Shadow-lover, Death.:

: Oh, right. Don't you think He would be a little unhappy about how you ranked Kal'enel above him? I heard He and you got along just fiiiine.:


Vanyel runs one hand through his hair, clearly exasperated.

:Who is telling you all these things? You just got here. Regardless, the Shadow-lover hardly counts; I think they're closer to a sentient natural force than an actual god.:

:What, you think mortals are the only ones who like to gossip? You were the champion of light during your life, Ashkevron. Of course we're going to pay attention to all your near-Death experiences.:

"...That was bad and you should feel bad,"
you comment dryly.

: I technically don't have a human conscience, so I dooooon't!:


[X] Do you think Kal'enel would be willing to point us towards an Adept-potential who isn't using their gift? And would she know anything about what's happening with V'kandis?

:I don't see why she wouldn't; She won't force anyone to give theirs up, but if there's anyone who doesn't want it, I doubt She'll hesitate to point you toward them.:

:She might demand a favor first, though,:
Sigurd adds. : She wouldn't be able to marshal so much power if she starts giving handouts. It's even more of a net gain for Her, but it's easier to reward mortals for services than it is to just grant them power.:

[X] And would she know anything about what's happening with V'kandis?

Sigurd rolls onto his belly and rests his head atop both paws,

:You know, I really think she will. They never confirmed anything, but rumor has it that Vkandis Sunlord was in a capital-R Relationship with the Twins, two goddesses with two Aspects each. Kal'enel was one of-:

: Sigurd,:
Vanyel interrupts, his tone flat and utterly unamused.

:I know what you're thinking, Ashkevron, and Dina-slash-Dara died during the cataclysm. Very tragic. Kal'enel took up Her sister's duties and mantle after Dara's death and I'm pretty sure she and Vkandis are supposed to be an official thing these days, so if anyone knows where He's gone off to, it'll be Her.:


How should we approach Kal'enel? Is there anything we should do to ensure a friendly reception? Offer a donation to her temple, clear out some monsters that're bothering her people, slay some demons for her, bring her a coffee?

:Head to the plains, meet with some Shin'a'in, and take a nap in the tent of their shaman. That's pretty much it; She might have a task for you, but She assigns those when they're needed, not because She wants something. She's the kind of goddess who likes quiet respect and philosophical debates between followers, not giant temples in Her honor.:

Same question with respect to V'kandis, because we all know that we're going to wake him up or find him or bust him out of prison eventually and it'll probably by accident and with nearly zero warning.

:I'd say your pessimism is depressing, but that was my life, too. Don't let yourself forget to take breaks; I had to do everything since there was nobody else, but there was nobody else because I was exhausting myself to the point of blindness.:

:...Well, that took a turn for the depressing. Lighten up, Ashkevron, mortals wouldn't be mortal if they didn't make mistakes. Anyway, Vkandis cares more about people than objects, so as long as you avoid harming his followers through blatant carelessness, you should be fine in His book.:


Same question with respect to the Shin'a'in and the others on the Dhorisha plains - do they have any advice on how to approach them?

: Don't overthink things or assume they're acting; if they're hostile, it's because they don't know you. If they're friendly, they're not feigning it. There isn't much room for mere ambivalence when it comes to the Shin'a'in.:

Are there any random social customs we need to avoid accidentally violating so we don't end up having wacky hijinks? Like, do we need to avoid eating the food in case we accidentally end up engaged to the chieften's daughter?

Vanyel's lips quirk upward into the largest grin you've ever seen on him.

:No, and don't let them convince you otherwise. They're very much a people who know how to enjoy themselves, but as they put it, 'black is for the Swordsworn.' They don't really see much point in staying solemn for longer than they have to.:

:Avoid insulting their homes or clothes,:
Sigurd advises. :All those bright colors can take some getting used to, but there is a method to the seeming madness.:


Are there any bits of history we need to be aware of to avoid stepping on toes or getting embroiled in local politics or similar?

: Politics?: Vanyel asks, feigning shock. :What are those?:

:Can you eat them?:

:...Not where I was going with that, but no, they don't do politics. If it's not a serious enough problem to give up everything and become Swordsworn, then it's an issue they can work out among one another.:

:If you think of the Clans as one giant collection of 'friends of the family,' then you'll only be wrong in ways that shouldn't matter.:


Are there any capabilities, magical or otherwise, that we need to avoid displaying? Are there any capabilities or magic that we should display?

: Don't use magic until after you've said hello. It should be fair game afterward.:

I'm not sure where mindshields get there.

:Mindshields would be more than fine. You might actually be chided if you don't have any, and if you get one of the stricter shamans, you might even have them shatter inadequate defenses and drive in mindspikes to make a point. Put them up and keep them up.:[/I]


How fast can we expect word of us to travel? How far can we expect it to go?

:As fast as it needs to.:

:Uh, no, wrong answer. Vanyel, that's throwing down the gauntlet to someone who can fly.:

:And if they talk to Kal'enel first, I expect She'll simply pass word on to Her shamans,:
Vanyel points out. :I'd say something like six hours to reach the whole plains, and even that would just be so the outer patrols will have time to return home and receive word.:


She's the kind of goddess who likes quiet respect and philosophical debates between followers, not giant temples in Her honor.:

Can we have her talk to Agneyastra about this?

"She will, at most, have a following of several hundred thousand humans," Mom says stiffly. "In addition, I have observed that you do enjoy positive attention and, in general, this is not a conversation we should be having before strangers.:

:That seems a bit arrogant, don't you think? At the very least, she's a few thousand years older than your charge. She could teach Jade a lot about taking care of her own charges.:

"Accusations of arrogance are the first recourse of those who cannot think of a better rebuttal."

:No, I mean... ugh. Yeah, I'm not touching that argument with the longest limb I can make.:


Sigurd pauses and appears to consider his own statement.

:Huh. I don't even know how long that is anymore. Don't freak out if you catch me playing with them later, got it?:

...Why do you have a bad feeling about this?


In fact, question: Would Kal'enel be willing to talk to us about divinity, how to be one, and our relative semi Devine state as a godling?
:You'll need to ask Her that question yourself, but I can't imagine she'd turn you away without even a little help.:

:In this case, 'a little help' might mean a proverb or four and a couple cryptic comments,:
Sigurd says dryly. :She didn't become one of the most powerful goddesses on the mortal plane by letting her followers get away without thinking for themselves.:


If we do get into any fights, most likely in the pelagirs, do they have any information about common threats and recommended tactics? Going back to that pessimism thing, it's better to go in assuming a fight will find us and we'd be better off being at least a bit ready.

: My knowledge of it will be pretty outdated by now, but in general, expect everything and its eight-legged friend to be magic-resistant and want to eat you. I really do advise against going in there until and unless the Star-eyed gives her approval; I doubt you'll be finding any of the Hawkbrother Vales without directions.:

:And if it walks on two legs and doesn't wear feathers in its hair, then you should probably run.:




If Kal'enal and Vkandis are in a relationship, would Kal'enal be able to extend useful influence or information-gathering into Karse? For example, if the highest-quality undesired Gift available is in Karse, would she be able to guide us to the owner? If we have to enter Karse to search, would she be able to offer any notable assistance? Or would she be limited to cryptic advice regardless of the circumstance?

:That's... a good question? Sorry, I know that's a terrible answer, but that part is really dependent on Vkandis. If he gives the all-clear or they're on good enough terms, then yes, I think Kal'enel could direct you to someone promising as though it were her own domain. It really does depend on how much of what I believe is accurate versus wild gossip; if it's accurate, you should be more than fine.:


Do we need to conceal specifically mana magic until we're more trusted, or do we need to conceal all apparently supernatural abilities? Does Sigurd count as magic, or his telepathy? Our artificial vessels? Agneyastra's avatar or the Stalker? Our mind shields?
:Mana magic, I feel. You can't exactly conceal most of your other abilities.:

:And I'm too fabulous to hide.:

"That's one word for it,"
Sidhe comments darkly. You think she's joking?


Are there any natural disasters we should keep an eye out for in case our usual luck continues and some city ends up in danger while we're there?

:My purview is Valdemar; I'm afraid I don't know.:

:She means stuff like massive grassfires, and yes, you do need to worry about those. Apart from those and the occasional storm, you should be fine.:



Do we need to worry about devoid mana? If we encounter devoid mana, how should we go about dealing with it? Last time something like that came up we claimed authority and took charge of a joint purification effort; would a similar approach work here?
:Oh, good heavens, no. That's the sort of thing you should light some incense for, pray, and let the gods take care of it with extreme prejudice. Not even the evil gods want that shapeless garbage in our universe.:


What do we do if we do somehow manage to stumble across something nasty hiding among the Shin'a'in? Because, again, low-probability but still within the scope of our luck.
:I really don't think you're going to stumble across something like that; don't worry yourself searching for problems where there are none.:

:Free will, Ashkevron. Kal'enel can't help them until they ask for it, meaning that problems can crop up in her domain. That being said, Princess, I think you're more likely to stumble across a threat from foreigners than any sort of internal rot; the Shin'a'in have the best mortal horses on the entire plane and have less than zero interest in selling them to outsiders. Said outsiders are well aware of this and have tried on more than one occasion to try taking their lines by force. Swordsworn usually take care of them within two years.:



We appear to have been given passes for Valdemar's anti-mage system, but are there any other strategic defenses to steer clear of on this planet?
: Vanyel here is clueless and I only know about the surrounding countries, sorry. Hardorn is to the east of Valdemar and the land will literally eat you if you hurt it enough. Iftel is to the north and Vanyel here is the one who helped set up its magical barrier in the first place; you might be able to fly over that one, but you honestly shouldn't. That's a good way to get an enchanted arrow in your neck. Apart from that, I'd just keep your senses peeled for gigantic magical arrays when you're traveling; Valdemar's is the only nation-sized example I can think of that's even remotely subtle. I mean, I don't know about any of the others, but I knew about Valdemar's before coming because its hidden nature was such a huge topic of discussion. Smaller wards will always be a concern, of course, but again, you should be able to sense those if you're careful.:


Is this one of the planes on which Agneyastra has deployed an orbital survey constellation?

No. She's been sporadically sending the Stalker out on mapping and scouting runs, though.

[x] Is that what "bit" us when we tried to bond the land there?
[X] Excuse me, but what?
:Bond?:

:I'll take this. Magic begets thought, Princess, and the lands of this world have long since developed sleepy personalities of their own. Think of them like street dogs; if they don't know you and you try to pet them, they're going to bite you. Treat them well and let them get to know you, however, and they'll be your best friends. Hardorn isn't going to be like that, though; it already has a family it's rather fond of and might tolerate interlopers, but it certainly isn't going to accept any sort of bond.:

:Ah. He means the royal family, Princess; they're supposed to have an unusual affinity for the land, even by the usual standards of benevolent monarchs. It's not unheard of for one of Hardorn's monarchs to ritually sacrifice themselves so that they might bring the country through some horrible drought or plague.:

:Anyway, it hasn't eaten anybody in well over a thousand... no, wait, a hundred years now. Just don't go leveling any mountains and you'll be fine.:

"...You're not allowed to go there,"
Sidhe sends flatly.

"Hey!"


[X] You mentioned earlier about gods meddling with mage gifts, care to elaborate?

:Yeah, so, obviously the gods won't always know how a new soul is going to grow up. Old souls, though? It's easier for them to follow the grooves of their old lives than it is for them to make new ones. It's not a guarantee, but it does tip the scales a fair amount. Mage-gifts are arguably the most versatile of the bunch and are the easiest to twist to storybook-villain purposes. A truly random distribution pattern would be a significant boon to blood-path mages if they were capable of entering the country alive. :

"These guys would be a child psychologist's worst nightmare,"
Mitra sends privately.

:So, yes. Evil expected one strong defender who could, in time, be defeated by the very tools he was supposed to be guarding. Instead, Kal'enel and the others went and stopped sending mage-gifts to Valdemar entirely. The ramshackle coalition of antagonistic gods that agreed to the original proposal promptly dissolved into infighting and blaming one another. Good can get along just fine, but evil always finds a way to fight one another.:


[X] How are the ferrets?
:Are they the ferret equivalent of Shin'a'in Battlesteeds?: Vanyel asks, exasperated. :I'm sure they're still within the Vale, but every time we take our attention off them, they go jumping to another tree or burrowing under a bush or something equally ridiculous.:

"Proooobably? Mom didn't want me to be saddened by the loss of any pets, so..."

:So of course she turns them into fuzzy war-constructs that won't be used for war,:
Vanyel sighs.

Not for the first time, you wonder if the ferrets could be trained to steal light tanks and aircraft. It seems like the next obvious step after trying to make off with a chandelier, and although they haven't succeeded at that just yet, you suspect it's only a matter of time.
 
Last edited:
The author made us a Cake New Chapter!

But it was a lie...



Still, it's nice to see all this stuff in one place for when I do a full reread of the story.
 
I'm not sure where mindshields get there.

:Mindshields would be more than fine. You might actually be chided if you don't have any, and if you get one of the stricter shamans, you might even have them shatter inadequate defenses and drive in mindspikes to make a point. Put them up and keep them up.:


Can you place my answer there immediately after Vebyast's?
Are there any random social customs we need to avoid accidentally violating so we don't end up having wacky hijinks?
: Don't use magic until after you've said hello. It should be fair game afterward.:

Since my wording was so sparse I feel it needs the context (the idea was asking if mind shields was an exception of not using magic before saying hello)
 
Last edited:
37.7: Gaze of Divinity
Special thanks to @saganatsu, @DB_Explorer, @LonelyWolf999, and my eight other patrons not mentioned here. An enthusiastic pair of "Thank you"s to @Torgamous and @fictionfan for their patronage as well. Numbers going up make my brain produce happy chemicals.

QM's Note: Trying something a little different this time — skipping the actual preparations and departure — to speed things up. Also, the xenforo update has changed the color palette available, so the different colors used for mana may be slightly off from what's usually used.



"So... is there really any reason we're considering Karse? A good one. One that won't get people hurt?" Sidhe eventually asks.

"There's always the stealth option?" you halfheartedly propose.

More importantly, you're about to fuse something to Nanoha's soul. If there's even the slightest chance it'll be improved by taking a Gift from Karse, then you should take it, right?

"We've just been told Kal'enel might be able to point us toward a Gift in Karse. I think the only reason Vanyel isn't telling us to go to the plains is that he can't."

"A gift from the, um, significant other of a god of fire might also work, right?"
Nanoha ventures. "I mean, that's kinda..."

She trails off into an embarrassed silence, but not before you can complete the thought.

"I... maybe? She might be able to make a better version anyway, I guess."

You nod once and turn to Vanyel.

"Okay, is there any reason we shouldn't just go to the plains now? I mean, I'm low on mana, but it sounds like it's pretty safe?"

Vanyel flashes you a quick smile.

:For those without ill intentions, yes. You'll be fine.:



Little more than two hours later, much of which was spent locating and collecting the ferrets, you stare out at the long green grasses of the Dhorisha plains and fight the urge to check yourself for ticks. Yes, they probably couldn't even pierce your skin, but old habits die hard.

Behind you, Sigurd climbs out of the hemispherical personnel carrier and promptly falls flat on his face. A path of crushed grass traces the path Yuuno, Scrya, and Sachiko take on their way to the oversized wolf. The three spend the better part of two seconds sniffing at the fallen kyree before glancing at one another and swarming over Sigurd's body as one.

:I'll have you know that I am a dignified extraplanar with many redeeming qualities,: Sigurd grumbles, his face still squishing a collection of white flowers. :And yet, here I am being lugged around like grain on a farmer's cart. Less forgiving spirits would smite you for this, you know.:

"Really?" you ask. From what you'd heard so far, it honestly sounded as though the gods had their acts together. Smiting people for casual offenses doesn't really fit into that.

Sigurd shrugs.

:Yeah, spirits of pride and whatnot. It'd probably be closer to some sort of minor curse than a full-fledged execution, though.:

The giant kyree struggles to his feet and lets out a long, toothy yawn.

:And now I have ticks,: he complains. :This place was a lot nicer from outside minimum safe distance. Which is to say, looking in on it from another plane.:

You make a mental note to get him some sort of insect-repellant ointment later. He'd probably appreciate it. In the meantime, you look away and begin scanning the plains. It's significantly flatter than you'd expected; there is the occasional small hill, tree, or bush breaking up the sea of flowers and grass, but for the most part? The plains seem unusually flat. At least you have a built-in compass: unless you're very much mistaken, the ground is slowly sloping toward the center of the plains. It's hard to tell, but you can't see any other reason you'd be able to see further in one direction than you can in the other.

"So, how long do you think it'll take for the Shin'a'in to find us?"

The stream of happy ferret borks briefly stops, presumably as Sigurd forces himself upright.

:Now's good. Don't freak out, okay?:

Your brow furrows as you turn back to Sigurd. That turns out to have been a major mistake; as soon as you establish eye contact, his unusually blue orbs grow and envelop your consciousness inside pools of endless Blue...

...But my shields were still up, weren't they...?



You return to coherent thought amid unfamiliar White mists. You think the mist might be gold to your normal sight, but it's honestly hard for you to tell. A path of moonlight-silver sand shifts beneath your feet, but makes no sound when you experimentally grind it underfoot. Between that and how weird your body feels, you're pretty sure you aren't actually here. You have little confidence in your own abstract safety, though; if you're hurt here, it'll definitely do some damage elsewhere.

(Land Discovered: ??? [WWWRR])

We haven't even been on the plains for five minutes and he's already pulling this sort of thing?

"Sigurd! This is not okay!" you shout. No echoes of your voice return; after the initial sound, it might as well have been eaten by the mists.

A weathered sigh precedes the words of an equally worn voice. You violently startle, halt the motion, and make yourself turn around at a more sedate pace.

"Indeed. His kind often does this sort of thing, I'm afraid. They hear the wisdom of the world, but not its context. The result is not unlike a scholar reciting words they've never heard aloud: somewhat recognizable, but still unacceptable. Their obsession with the ideal of an unattainably perfect plan certainly doesn't help matters."

The source of the voice isn't quite what you'd expected. Gods are supposed to appear eternally youthful, but the withered old crone behind you is anything but. The only sign a stiff breeze won't topple her can be found in her eyes: twin orbs of black with small white pinpricks, two windows to a starry night sky.

Honestly, the effect is pretty creepy overall. You'd expected starry eyes to be prettier. Between the eyes, her bare feet, and the witch-black coloration of her robes, you wouldn't be outstandingly surprised if she snacks on unattended babies in her free time.

Maaaybe I shouldn't pursue sun-eyes after all.

"Jade Agni, called Princess, called Planeswalker, known to Us as a descendant of Sylvester Agni. You are expected, and you have questions."

Kal'enel tilts her head to one side and... probably smiles? The mass of wrinkles comprising her face shift upward, at least.

"However, although this is the right place, it may not be the right time. Would you prefer to be sent back for the time being? Your family has been quite upset by the young wolf's decisions; one more voice in the chorus may yet help the lesson stick."

This time, you're sure Kal'enel's expression acquires hints of mischief odd in one so elderly.

"Of course, the young mind-mage will always need more practice with cooperative targets who nonetheless wish to keep secrets. No time like the present, don't you think?"



[] Immediately return so you can chew out Sigurd.
-[] That was REALLY not OK. Even if there are constraints on what he can tell you about, would it have killed him to say "Hey, I can speed things up, but it might be a little weird"?

[] You're already here and you can always lecture Sigurd later. For now, you might as well just save everyone some time and ask your questions.
-[] Could she point you toward a suitable mage-Gift? You'd like to do something similar to what Sylvester did for your family, only not half as extreme.
-[] Did she know Sylvester or is She just doing a seer-knowledge thing?
-[] How did Sigurd bypass your shields like that? Vulnerability to freaky hypnotic eye-powers seems like a pretty big security problem.

[] Write-in



Voting will be locked for 60 minutes after this goes up.
 
Last edited:
"So, how long do you think it'll take for the Shin'a'in to find us?"

The stream of happy ferret borks briefly stops, presumably as Sigurd forces himself upright.

:Now's good. Don't freak out, okay?:

Your brow furrows as you turn back to Sigurd. That turns out to have been a major mistake; as soon as you establish eye contact, his unusually blue orbs grow and envelop your consciousness inside pools of endless Blue...

...But my shields were still up, weren't they...?



You return to coherent thought amid unfamiliar White mists. You think the mist might be gold to your normal sight, but it's honestly hard for you to tell. A path of moonlight-silver sand shifts beneath your feet, but makes no sound when you experimentally grind it underfoot. Between that and how weird your body feels, you're pretty sure you aren't actually here. You have little confidence in your own abstract safety, though; if you're hurt here, it'll definitely do some damage elsewhere.

(Land Discovered: ??? [WWWRR])
Well. That's an...interesting trick. Seems like he pulled us into the Spirit Realm and onto the Moonpaths. Those are normally something only the Star-Eyed's shamans or Kal'enedral could access, the former only during a full moon, and only for themselves, for the most part. That Sigurd could manage to pull us onto them implies that the Star-Eyed was rather more involved in the creation of the Companions than I thought.
"Sigurd! This is not okay!" you shout. No echoes of your voice return; after the initial sound, it might as well have been eaten by the mists.

A weathered sigh precedes the words of an equally worn voice. You violently startle, half the motion, and make yourself turn around at a more sedate pace.

"Indeed. His kind often does this sort of thing, I'm afraid. They hear the wisdom of the world, but not its context. The end result is not unlike a scholar reciting words they've never heard aloud: somewhat recognizable, but still unacceptable. Their obsession with the ideal of an unattainably perfect plan certainly doesn't help matters."
Yeah, I am rather unsurprised she's here. Also, yeah, Sigurd done screwed up. Really needs to talk to people before doing crap like this. Glad the Star-Eyed knows better.
The source of the voice isn't quite what you'd expected. Gods are supposed to appear eternally youthful, but the withered old crone behind you is anything but. The only sign a stiff breeze won't topple her can be found in her eyes: twin orbs of black with small white pinpricks, two windows to a starry night sky.

Honestly, the effect is pretty creepy overall. You'd expected starry eyes to be prettier. Between the eyes, her bare feet, and the witch-black coloration of her robes, you wouldn't be outstandingly surprised if she snacks on unattended babies in her free time.

Maaaybe I shouldn't pursue sun-eyes after all.

"Jade Agni, called Princess, called Planeswalker, known to Us as a descendant of Sylvester Agni. You are expected, and you have questions."
So she's met or heard of Sylvester, huh? Interesting. It's also interesting that we got the Crone. Of her three "triune goddess" faces, that's not the one I'd expect to see here. I'd rather expected Mother or Maiden, or maybe the odd one out, Warrior. The Priestesses of the Crone, IIRC, have rather grim duties, relating to the ending of life, so I assume that would apply to that Aspect, as well. Knowledge is more Maiden, I think. Could be misremembering, though.
 
Last edited:
It was her suggestion and she seems pretty friendly, but it would seem a bit rude to duck out immediately when you already have a god's attention. Best to be polite either way and confirm she doesn't really mind whatever is voted for. It's also possible she cares more about educating a Champion than immediately hearing your request - after all, it's still necessary to meet one of her shamans and get proper ID before doing anything else, which would be another convenient time to make contact.
 
[X] You're already here and you can always lecture Sigurd later. For now, you might as well just save everyone some time and ask your questions.
-[X] Could she point you toward a suitable mage-Gift? You'd like to do something similar to what Sylvester did for your family, only not half as extreme.
-[X] Did she know Sylvester or is She just doing a seer-knowledge thing?
-[X] How did Sigurd bypass your shields like that? Vulnerability to freaky hypnotic eye-powers seems like a pretty big security problem.

[X] How do yo do the eye thing?
[X] Any tips on establishing a religious framework for your followers so they don't go fanatic the decade you take your eyes of them?

Questions now, shave the dog later.
 
Back
Top