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Ignition (MTG/Multicross, Planeswalker PC)

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[x] Draw attention to the fact that you've been running an invisible psionic effect the whole time: Ask them what language you're speaking.
-[x] If that isn't convincing, a sequence of backups:
--[x] Ask them to record your voice, then have someone (at a different location you don't know about) with a different native language, ideally someone who does not speak any of the languages of people present listen to it and then call back to tell them what language they heard.
---[x] Summon Swordstaff
---[x] Muffle
---[x] Use the green mote from this land to cause some rapid growth.

Am contrarian bastard. Also, formatting stickler. And in a decent amount of pain, hence the broken English.
 
[x] Draw attention to the fact that you've been running an invisible psionic effect the whole time: Ask them what language you're speaking.
[x] If that isn't convincing, a sequence of backups:
-[x] You'll demonstrate Muffle, a technique which uses the power of your soul to suppress sound in an area around you.
-[x]Go break into a plasma reactor, keeping in mind they'll need someone there to observe you.
 
fictionfan said:
I mostly don't have a problem with any of the votes. At least we are not showing off by blowing something up.
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<glances at votes that include breaking into a plasma reactor as a backup> Yeah, about that...

I'm happy with the direction the vote has gone, but really hoping that subvote doesn't pass. It should only be considered as a final resort, not a second or third, and only after pressuring the Resistance to supply a plasma reactor instead.
 
Actually thinking about it I find it a little odd that we are trying to encourage mass based weapons. If we were to focus on plasma based weapons to the point that everyone uses them only Jade becomes the next best thing to invincible.
 
fictionfan said:
Actually thinking about it I find it a little odd that we are trying to encourage mass based weapons. If we were to focus on plasma based weapons to the point that everyone uses them only Jade becomes the next best thing to invincible.
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I believe that "mass weapons", in MGLN parlance, are anything that doesn't use a Linker Core. By this standard, plasma weapons are mass-based. I don't know if MGLN has better plasma-gun tech than XCOM; it's a dead end without exotic energy-handling materials, which feature much more heavily in XCOM's tech-base (everything relating to Elerium) than in MGLN's (dimensional stuff, energy generation, AI).
 
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Vebyast said:
I believe that "mass weapons", in MGLN parlance, are anything that doesn't use a Linker Core. By this standard, plasma weapons are mass-based. I don't know if MGLN has better plasma-gun tech than XCOM; it's a dead end without exotic energy-handling materials, which feature much more heavily in XCOM's tech-base (everything relating to Elerium) than in MGLN's (dimensional stuff, energy generation that's then fed into magic).
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We really need to get Shiva a research team.
 
Vebyast said:
I believe that "mass weapons", in MGLN parlance, are anything that doesn't use a Linker Core. By this standard, plasma weapons are mass-based. I don't know if MGLN has better plasma-gun tech than XCOM; it's a dead end without exotic energy-handling materials, which feature much more heavily in XCOM's tech-base (everything relating to Elerium) than in MGLN's (dimensional stuff, energy generation, AI).
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MGLN has hybrid weapons, IIRC. So MGLN plasma gun may be that.
 
Vebyast said:
I believe that "mass weapons", in MGLN parlance, are anything that doesn't use a Linker Core. By this standard, plasma weapons are mass-based. I don't know if MGLN has better plasma-gun tech than XCOM; it's a dead end without exotic energy-handling materials, which feature much more heavily in XCOM's tech-base (everything relating to Elerium) than in MGLN's (dimensional stuff, energy generation, AI).
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curiosity said:
MGLN has hybrid weapons, IIRC. So MGLN plasma gun may be that.
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The plasma gun is magically powered, but creates and fires real plasma.

The advantage of magical attacks is that they have customizable physics until the effect concludes, allowing remote guidance, definitionally 'safe' nonlethal attacks, etc. The disadvantage is that within a strong antimagic field the spell rapidly degrades as the field rips out its magical energy, which can be solved via encapsulating the spell inside another spell with the express purpose of negating other fields(effectively an armor piercing penetrator carrying the payload inside) or just putting out more and faster energy than the antimagic can disperse before contact.

MGLN mass weaponry usually refers to magically generated real physics effects. E.g using magical lightning to launch railgun slugs or plasma bursts, overcoming engineering power density or containment difficulties by using magic.

Noting that they can store and generate magic mechanically, but we've never seen a mechanical generator smaller than a car engine, and their yield per volume is evidently much lower than mages, but they can store magical energy in very portable cartridges.
 
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veekie said:
The plasma gun is magically powered, but creates and fires real plasma.

The advantage of magical attacks is that they have customizable physics until the effect concludes, allowing remote guidance, definitionally 'safe' nonlethal attacks, etc. The disadvantage is that within a strong antimagic field the spell rapidly degrades as the field rips out its magical energy, which can be solved via encapsulating the spell inside another spell with the express purpose of negating other fields(effectively an armor piercing penetrator carrying the payload inside) or just putting out more and faster energy than the antimagic can disperse before contact.

MGLN mass weaponry usually refers to magically generated real physics effects. E.g using magical lightning to launch railgun slugs or plasma bursts, overcoming engineering power density or containment difficulties by using magic.
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That would be hybrid weapons. They are clearly distinguished from both mass and magic weapons:

Alivaril said:
The TSAB was formed 131 years ago, after yet another multi-dimensional war threatened the entire human race. Midchilda was one of the few worlds which had been left relatively unharmed by the conflict, and they quickly took advantage. Midchilda banned all mass-based and hybrid magic/mass weaponry, pointing toward the dozens of worlds left with extreme environmental damage as their reason. You can't help but notice that they were one of the most magically advanced worlds left standing after the conflict.
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Alivaril said:
"A rifle would likely be best for this, especially if you wish to minimize collateral damage, Princess. Unlike much mass-based weaponry, there is no reason I cannot fire projectiles significantly larger than the exit point of a firearm. On a related note, a cannon may be a suitable variant in order to allow the use of mass/magic hybrid weaponry."
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Alivaril said:
"Judging from their files, the TSAB appears to be preparing for rapid expansion. They are currently attempting to determine a method of creating hybrid magic/mass weaponry while attempting to make them look like pure magic weapons.
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May also be relevant:
Alivaril said:
Although it takes some extra effort, power, and has about 20% longer casting times for you to do so, you can make every one of your offensive spells nonlethal with the sole exception of Wrath of God.
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The read i get when compare mass weapons, magic , and hybrid is that they each have their stregnths and weaknesses

Mass weapons are

Pros
1. On average cheap and mass producable

2. Consistent, they work the same way, every time, for all units outside of external effects

3. Dont rely on mages and can be used by anyone trained appropriately.

Cons

1. Not versatile

2. Hard to manage/control usage of them due to their prevalence

3. Tends to either be weaker than magic or super dangerous with little in between

Magic

Pros

1. Extremely versitile

2. Limited to trained mages, providing a level of state control

3. Tend to be more effective than average mass weapons

Cons

1. Can be horrifyingly destructive

2. Mage limitations effect strength of magic

3. vulnerable to antimagic

4. Tends to result in super mages who do what they want. With limited ability to stop them

hybrids

Pros

1. Combines the pros of magic and mass weapons according to design

2 potentially stronger than either mass or magic equivalents due to synergies

Cons

1. All related cons of mass and magic accorsing to its design, i.e. needs mages of x power, vulnerable to antimagic etc.

2. Probably more expensive the either magic or mass

3. Probably less reliable than magic or mass, at first at minimum
 
Vebyast said:
I believe that "mass weapons", in MGLN parlance, are anything that doesn't use a Linker Core. By this standard, plasma weapons are mass-based. I don't know if MGLN has better plasma-gun tech than XCOM; it's a dead end without exotic energy-handling materials, which feature much more heavily in XCOM's tech-base (everything relating to Elerium) than in MGLN's (dimensional stuff, energy generation, AI).
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Technically, a laser effectively lacks mass, as does electricity. Or, at least, the mass is pretty much negligible for almost all intents and purposes. I believe both of those (meaning stuff like lasers and lightning generators) would be considered non-mass-based attacks. Plasma, however, does tend to have mass. Hence being a form of mass-based weapon.

As for making a plasma weapon, apply similar principles to a Tokamak reactor, just minus the coils. All you really need is the ability to make a mass of plasma, and create and project shaped magnetic fields for containment and directing the plasma to the target, at least hypothetically. There may be other issues like heat loss that would be encountered when trying to apply this in the field.
 
Nixeu said:
Technically, a laser effectively lacks mass, as does electricity. Or, at least, the mass is pretty much negligible for almost all intents and purposes. I believe both of those (meaning stuff like lasers and lightning generators) would be considered non-mass-based attacks. Plasma, however, does tend to have mass. Hence being a form of mass-based weapon.

As for making a plasma weapon, apply similar principles to a Tokamak reactor, just minus the coils. All you really need is the ability to make a mass of plasma, and create and project shaped magnetic fields for containment and directing the plasma to the target, at least hypothetically. There may be other issues like heat loss that would be encountered when trying to apply this in the field.
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I think that this is a technicality more than anything else and that the intent is to delineate between the magic and non magic weapons. I interpret the intent as 'any weapon that doesnt dictate the direct ouput/effect of said weapon with controlable magic, such as a spell or program, is not a magic weapon'. By this definition conventional lasers would be mass weapons.
 
Alrighty, locking the vote. There are two ways I can handle this coming update. The first is to do an XCOM interlude set a few minutes in the future and then pick up after that. The second is to cover your reveals from Jade's perspective (like the last few updates) and just do the XCOM Interlude as a side thing.

(Just so you know, you'll be revealing Gift of Tongues, Muffle, and Rapid Growth, in that order.)
 
Mass-based weaponry is a catchall term for everything that does not use magic for its main purpose. This includes nonmagical lasers.

Magic is considered by some to be "fake" energy since it does not appear to have mass despite occupying space and affecting the world. While it does require some fuel, arguments persist over whether it's using enough or if it's breaking the law of conservation of energy. Agneyastra belongs to the currently-dominant school of thought, which believes magic obeys that particular law.

"Hybrid" technology isn't simply a matter of a device using magic and mass (eg. shielded Predators), but of using both for the same purpose. For example, placing a Boost effect on a railgun round so that it can resist a disproportionately high amount of outside forces before stopping. Yes, Jade's vessel is technically hybrid weaponry and is thus illegal under TSAB law.

B is for blackmail, so they know to leave you be~

Seriously though, they aren't dumb enough to complain about voluntary body mods. You'd probably win any court cases.
 
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Alivaril said:
Mass-based weaponry is a catchall term for everything that does not use magic for its main purpose. This includes nonmagical lasers.

Magic is considered by some to be "fake" energy since it does not appear to have mass despite occupying space and affecting the world. While it does require some fuel, arguments persist over whether it's using enough or if it's breaking the law of conservation of energy. Agneyastra belongs to the currently-dominant school of thought, which believes magic obeys that particular law.

"Hybrid" technology isn't simply a matter of a device using magic and mass (eg. shielded Predators), but of using both for the same purpose. For example, placing a Boost effect on a railgun round so that it can resist a disproportionately high amount of outside forces before stopping. Yes, Jade's vessel is technically hybrid weaponry and is thus illegal under TSAB law.

B is for blackmail, so they know to leave you be~
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XCOM might find it interesting that the type of tech we are unwilling to share with them is of a type so foreign to them that it is defined by not being anything they have any knowledge of.
 
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Alivaril said:
Mass-based weaponry is a catchall term for everything that does not use magic for its main purpose. This includes nonmagical lasers.

Magic is considered by some to be "fake" energy since it does not appear to have mass despite occupying space and affecting the world. While it does require some fuel, arguments persist over whether it's using enough or if it's breaking the law of conservation of energy. Agneyastra belongs to the currently-dominant school of thought, which believes magic obeys that particular law.

"Hybrid" technology isn't simply a matter of a device using magic and mass (eg. shielded Predators), but of using both for the same purpose. For example, placing a Boost effect on a railgun round so that it can resist a disproportionately high amount of outside forces before stopping. Yes, Jade's vessel is technically hybrid weaponry and is thus illegal under TSAB law.

B is for blackmail, so they know to leave you be~

Seriously though, they aren't dumb enough to complain about voluntary body mods. You'd probably win any court cases.
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So, where would Strike Arts fall under this?
 
Alivaril said:
Alrighty, locking the vote. There are two ways I can handle this coming update. The first is to do an XCOM interlude set a few minutes in the future and then pick up after that. The second is to cover your reveals from Jade's perspective (like the last few updates) and just do the XCOM Interlude as a side thing.

(Just so you know, you'll be revealing Gift of Tongues, Muffle, and Rapid Growth, in that order.)
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So we'd be getting an XCOM interlude either way? I'd be happy with either approach, then.

Can see their reaction going one of two ways:

1) Wary paradigm shift ("This story might actually be crazy enough to be true, but we can't risk giving her too much trust... yet.")

2) SHE INFECTED THE AVENGER WITH A MEMETIC ATTACK AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
 
Whichever is easier for you. I am really looking forward to this update.

Edit
I am most interested in the interlude. Think that we should have shown our sword summoning. It doesn't really fit into the categories given, but it is really different from any of the other psi abilities on this plane.
 
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Gmerguy said:
I think that this is a technicality more than anything else and that the intent is to delineate between the magic and non magic weapons. I interpret the intent as 'any weapon that doesnt dictate the direct ouput/effect of said weapon with controlable magic, such as a spell or program, is not a magic weapon'. By this definition conventional lasers would be mass weapons.
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...Except you can absolutely control the yield on electricity and laser based weaponry. If they wanted to delineate between magic and non-magic weapons, they could, and likely would, have used those terms. Why in the world would they use a term that calls to mind orbital kinetic weapons if such weapons, and related ones, were not the intended target?
Alivaril said:
Mass-based weaponry is a catchall term for everything that does not use magic for its main purpose. This includes nonmagical lasers.
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...why tho?
Alivaril said:
Magic is considered by some to be "fake" energy since it does not appear to have mass despite occupying space and affecting the world. While it does require some fuel, arguments persist over whether it's using enough or if it's breaking the law of conservation of energy. Agneyastra belongs to the currently-dominant school of thought, which believes magic obeys that particular law.
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Yeah, and so do some bosons. Though, admittedly, bosons will take up that same space as other bosons. But yeah, some bosons lack mass, photons included. This terminology is actually completely wrong based on physics, apparently. Lasers lack mass.
fictionfan said:
In our world I think that would be everything but nukes. If would be funny if people in our world stopped calling them conventional weapons and instead called it "Newtonian based Weapons"
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Nope. Lasers aren't Newtonian, I don't think. Possibly not railguns, either, since electrodynamics is often linked to quantum mechanics, though I think there are some rules that are? I'm an aspiring chemist, not a physicist. Speaking of which, chemical weapons don't necessarily involve Newtonian physics.
 
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Carrnage said:
I thought photons have mass but that it's the absolute minimum mass.
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At rest? No, they lack all mass. In motion? Yes, because energy equates to mass. But all of a photon's mass seems to come from its motion.
fictionfan said:
You have never known people to misuse technical termiology and for that that to become the common usage?
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Yes, and I hate it. Drives me nuts. Especially when it requires scientists to change their terminology because it leaked into common parlance. It's why I've begun deliberately avoiding the common usage of "theoretically".
 
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