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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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BoredMan said:
The greatest shame charm is free to use? Also your earlier plan called for an etiquette excellency so it requires two motes?

Edit: I just checked, the greatest shame charm is not free to use it cost an essence. So this plan cost three motes, two essence one willpower and your earlier plan also cost two motes. There something I'm missing here?
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Ok, what's your math?
MIne is:
1 mote for NWS
1 Willpower for ATB
1 mote for Empathy excellency. It continues at least part through the speech
1 mote for SCCM

Ok, yeah, if we also use etiquette excellency we'd be up to 4. It depends on if we shift the scene from pre-speech to speech.
 
So when does Tiffany get around to boosting everyone's stats to 5?
 
Yog said:
We can do 4 motes, as I understand. It's going above that causes a flare. So far we may be up to the limit, but aren't going over it.
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I checked since noone was saying anything and it is more than four before flaring.
DragonParadox said:
You are in the coffee house scene, you have spent three essence including the windborn stride from last update, giving you just enough room to cast ATP without flaring.
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So not ideal but it wouldn't be an immediate problem just something to keep in mind that spending anymore would mean flaring.

[X] Plan politics
 
BoredMan said:
I checked since noone was saying anything and it is more than four before flaring.

So not ideal but it wouldn't be an immediate problem just something to keep in mind that spending anymore would mean flaring.

[X] Plan politics
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I'll remove the excellency from my plan for this vote, which makes it so even if we go up to max, we won't flare.
 
Nyarky said:
The thing is, it doesn't matter if that is his greatest shame, because just knowing why it is gives us information on his character.

[x] Find out what his greatest shame is
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Finding out someone's greatest shame is always important no matter what it is because they think that it is important.
 
Another thing to comment about the update - the rumor mill in WC should be going very crazy right now. I wonder what the more outlandish theories are.
 
Yog said:
Another thing to comment about the update - the rumor mill in WC should be going very crazy right now. I wonder what the more outlandish theories are.
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Well, obviously there are more theories about who Molly is than there used to be. Because Ancient Mei's explanation doesn't quite cover everything. I think trying to fit her into the classic demon hierarchy would be a failure from a Western perspective.

Honestly, I'm most interested in the theories of the oldest members and the youth. The former because their whole world has turned inside out. The latter because it shapes their worldview right now.

But honestly, if the Angel incident is public knowledge... Well, I think theories about Molly's connection to the divine hierarchy and how that might be related to her father's status will be popular.
 
DragonParadox said:
Called to Council​
25st of February 2007 A.D.
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COMMENTARY
-Gregori Cristos was canonically Aleron LaFortier's protege.
So if he's politicking here, he's almost certainly doing so with the knowledge of his patron. Not necessarily the approval, but certainly the knowledge.


-1400 wizards is not a plausible population size.
By those metrics, just counting the deaths at the beginning of the war and those during Dead Beat, the Council would have lost more than 20% of its population in the roughly 4 years between Grave Peril and Dead Beat.

No nationstate suffers those kinds of casualties and remains war-capable.


-The pre-War Wardens were at least 200-ish.
We know at least 145 of them were killed in Dead Beat, so lets just used 200 as a benchmark. Wardens are both cops and soldiers for the wizard community.


Lets pick two nations as models.
The US has 1.3 million LEOs + ~1.4 million soldiers, totalling 2.7 million, which would be 0.8% of 330 million people.
Round that up, you have 1% of the US population as soldiers and cops.

At the other end of the spectrum, see North Korea.
According to the CIA, it has 1-1.2 million soldiers + 200k internal security troops. Wikipedia quotes ~150k police.
Altogether, that's 1.35-1.55 million out of a population of 26 million. Roughly 4-5%.

If ~200 Wardens represent 5% of the wizard population, you have 4000 wizards.
If they represent 1%, you have 20,000 wizards.
And the Wardens represent too few wizards for me to buy the Council being North Korea levels of militarized.
 
We don't want to show our infernal aura at the moment, but I also think that we want to not just be mundane Molly.

@DragonParadox : Can our BMI disguise right now be Queen Molly as her Citizens see her?
 
uju32 said:
COMMENTARY
-Gregori Cristos was canonically Aleron LaFortier's protege.
So if he's politicking here, he's almost certainly doing so with the knowledge of his patron. Not necessarily the approval, but certainly the knowledge.


-1400 wizards is not a plausible population size.
By those metrics, just counting the deaths at the beginning of the war and those during Dead Beat, the Council would have lost more than 20% of its population in the roughly 4 years between Grave Peril and Dead Beat.

No nationstate suffers those kinds of casualties and remains war-capable.


-The pre-War Wardens were at least 200-ish.
We know at least 145 of them were killed in Dead Beat, so lets just used 200 as a benchmark. Wardens are both cops and soldiers for the wizard community.


Lets pick two nations as models.
The US has 1.3 million LEOs + ~1.4 million soldiers, totalling 2.7 million, which would be 0.8% of 330 million people.
Round that up, you have 1% of the US population as soldiers and cops.

At the other end of the spectrum, see North Korea.
According to the CIA, it has 1-1.2 million soldiers + 200k internal security troops. Wikipedia quotes ~150k police.
Altogether, that's 1.35-1.55 million out of a population of 26 million. Roughly 4-5%.

If ~200 Wardens represent 5% of the wizard population, you have 4000 wizards.
If they represent 1%, you have 20,000 wizards.
And the Wardens represent too few wizards for me to buy the Council being North Korea levels of militarized.
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I already had to vastly inflate the numbers Butcher gives in canon to get those 1400. I'll consider this more in the morning, but really I think we hit Writers Can't Do Math (TM) which means it's going to take a lot of thinking to make this make sense
 
It fully possible for Wizards where all members are combat capable, to sustain 20% losses and keep fighting just fine. And let's not forget death curses, by their nature the weakest combat wizards die first, but they go out like a tactical nuke. So the overall combat ability over the war actually massively increased, as those left alive get better and better at combat magic. Just look at Dresden early enemies, they would get one tapped by later Dresden.

Hell the biggest loss logistical loss of the war was Mai losing the ability to make Warden swords.
 
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DragonParadox said:
I already had to vastly inflate the numbers Butcher gives in canon to get those 1400. I'll consider this more in the morning, but really I think we hit Writers Can't Do Math (TM) which means it's going to take a lot of thinking to make this make sense
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Butcher's numbers were roughly one in a million, giving you around 6000-7000 wizards.
Thats already grossly inadequate for the kind of global conflict going on, especially since he compounds this by specifying that a lot of wizards arent suited temperamentally for open combat.

Earth-Destroyer said:
It fully possible for Wizards where all members are combat capable, to sustain 20% losses and keep fighting just fine. And let's not forget death curses, by their nature the weakest combat wizards die first, but they go out like a tactical nuke.

Hell the biggest loss logistical loss of the war was Mai losing the ability to make Warden swords.
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Can =/= Do.
Death curses require setup time(not a lot, but at least enough time to recognize death is coming) and willpower as well as a good idea what you want to do with it.

Most wizards die without a death curse.
Peabody did in canon. So did Grevane. So did Corpsetaker. So did Aleron LaFortier and Donald Morgan and Kowalski.
Up and down the spectrum of power, from newbie wizard to Senior Council member.

In Dead Beat, Luccio says that in a day when almost a hundred and fifty Wardens died, she saw four death curses.
And she considered that a remarkable number.
If most wizards threw death curses, the war would have ended several years ago.
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
It fully possible for Wizards where all members are combat capable, to sustain 20% losses and keep fighting just fine. And let's not forget death curses, by their nature the weakest combat wizards die first, but they go out like a tactical nuke. So the overall combat ability over the war actually massively increased, as those left alive get better and better at combat magic. Just look at Dresden early enemies, they would get one tapped by later Dresden.

Hell the biggest loss logistical loss of the war was Mai losing the ability to make Warden swords.
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There is also the fact that between the magical health and increased life expectancy they are just plain more experienced in general than any equivalent mundane population. They are also getting enormous numbers of wizards every day, by historical standards just because of the population boom.

Anyway good night guys.
 
uju32 said:
COMMENTARY
-Gregori Cristos was canonically Aleron LaFortier's protege.
So if he's politicking here, he's almost certainly doing so with the knowledge of his patron. Not necessarily the approval, but certainly the knowledge.


-1400 wizards is not a plausible population size.
By those metrics, just counting the deaths at the beginning of the war and those during Dead Beat, the Council would have lost more than 20% of its population in the roughly 4 years between Grave Peril and Dead Beat.

No nationstate suffers those kinds of casualties and remains war-capable.


-The pre-War Wardens were at least 200-ish.
We know at least 145 of them were killed in Dead Beat, so lets just used 200 as a benchmark. Wardens are both cops and soldiers for the wizard community.


Lets pick two nations as models.
The US has 1.3 million LEOs + ~1.4 million soldiers, totalling 2.7 million, which would be 0.8% of 330 million people.
Round that up, you have 1% of the US population as soldiers and cops.

At the other end of the spectrum, see North Korea.
According to the CIA, it has 1-1.2 million soldiers + 200k internal security troops. Wikipedia quotes ~150k police.
Altogether, that's 1.35-1.55 million out of a population of 26 million. Roughly 4-5%.

If ~200 Wardens represent 5% of the wizard population, you have 4000 wizards.
If they represent 1%, you have 20,000 wizards.
And the Wardens represent too few wizards for me to buy the Council being North Korea levels of militarized.
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Easiest way to reconcile the low WC numbers against reasonable Wizard population sizes is that there are many more who are simply no longer active members, or never were to begin with.

Either they consider themselves retired, never actively served as official members despite being properly trained Wizards, just decided to no-show because they aren't interested, or have other obligations they deem more important.

If the 1400-ish WC members, Wardens included, are the Wizards who wish to participate in their community, there could be several times that many who just don't get involved in day to day stuff, even momentous events like what is happening now.

There are probably quite a few lone Wizards who have settled themselves into a nice little warded home, tower, bunker, etc. and live their lives without drawing attention to themselves. Maybe they take an apprentice if they find a suitable talent, maybe they quietly take over a small town and rule it as a shadow power, etc.
 
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uju32 said:
Butcher's numbers were roughly one in a million, giving you around 6000-7000 wizards.
Thats already grossly inadequate for the kind of global conflict going on, especially since he compounds this by specifying that a lot of wizards arent suited temperamentally for open combat.
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Considering the power and flexibility of a white council wizard I feel like a better comparison would be 6000-7000 tanks which is more firepower then the U.S. by that measure*. Add in that wizards can travel the ways to anywhere in the world with far more flexibility then a tank and the WC is clearly a global super power.

*The U.S. has about 4000 tanks.
 
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Goldfish said:
Easiest way to reconcile the low WC numbers against reasonable Wizard population sizes is that there are many more who are simply no longer active members, or never were to begin with.

Either they consider themselves retired, never actively served as official members despite being properly trained Wizards, just decided to no-show because they aren't interested, or have other obligations they deem more important.

If the 1400-ish WC members, Wardens included, are the Wizards who wish to participate in their community, there could be several times that many who just don't get involved in day to day stuff, even momentous events like what is happening now.

There are probably quite a few lone Wizards who have settled themselves into a nice little warded home, tower, bunker, etc. and live their lives without drawing attention to themselves. Maybe they take an apprentice if they find a suitable talent, maybe they quietly take over a small town and rule it as a shadow power, etc.
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I dont really think it works that way.

The Red Court, the Blacks, the Fomor and more will happily track you down for predation if you are a known wizard who does not have the protection of the White Council or a similarly powerful faction; for Elaine, it was Summer that kept her alive as a sprog, and she's kept a low profile since.

The Council certainly keeps track of its members; Dresden himself hardly attended meetings even after being made a Warden, but he was still a Council member in good standing, who received ongoing updates, and was called on.


Just for an example, when they were electing a replacement for Simon Petrovich in Summer Knight, it took almost fifteen minutes to go through the full list of all the living senior wizards who were eligible for the role.
BEFORE they got to McCoy.

There were wizards on sabbatical, wizards with commitments("He got real married" and "pyramid sitting" were two) wizards with magical or health issues and the like. A bunch of them werent around.
Still Council members, still kept tabs on, and still subject to the privileges and responsibilities thereof.

fictionfan said:
Considering the power and flexibility of a white council wizard I feel like a better comparison would be 6000-7000 tanks which is more firepower then the U.S. by that measure*. Add in that wizards can travel the ways to anywhere in the world with far more flexibility then a tank and the WC is clearly a global super power.

*The U.S. has about 4000 tanks.
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I disagree.
 
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I've binged through the quesys... it took me 3 days to read through it. Kudos for length and quality!

If I may ask, why the character sheet is inclomplete? I.e.: Unbound Eschaton Shintai was gained, but it's not represented. Chosen signature charms are likewise not present. Is there a full version of the character sheet somewhere out there?

I'm also a bit curious why certain choices were not selected in charm purchases. For example "By Rage Recast" for "Energy Projection" would give an essence-free ranged attack inflicting 12 lethal aggravated damages. The "Fat Rending Aura" is a bonus point of lethal aggravated damage in clash, and effect can be supressed without much problem.

Molly's main weakness is the same as any other exalt: endurance. There is only so many charms that can be cast with limited and slowly regenerating essence pool. Too much encounters in short amount of time will leave one scrapping bottom of that pool. It was visible rather often in recent chapters. Any charm that allows her to fight longer without expending the essence is valuable.

I'm also wondering whether it is not possible to create splendor to store essence in. Even 2-3 points would be valuable. Charging penatly 2 to 1 would be nice. The 4 to 1 penalty would turn charging into strategic-use action, but it would still be worth it.
 
JackOfAll said:
Molly's main weakness is the same as any other exalt: endurance. There is only so many charms that can be cast with limited and slowly regenerating essence pool. Too much encounters in short amount of time will leave one scrapping bottom of that pool. It was visible rather often in recent chapters. Any charm that allows her to fight longer without expending the essence is valuable.
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I like you already. Finally someone who gets it.
 
First of all welcome.
JackOfAll said:
I'm also a bit curious why certain choices were not selected in charm purchases. For example "By Rage Recast" for "Energy Projection" would give an essence-free ranged attack inflicting 12 lethal aggravated damages. The "Fat Rending Aura" is a bonus point of lethal aggravated damage in clash, and effect can be supressed without much problem.
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The part before this can be answered by the fact that they just haven't been added to the character sheet yet they'll be added sometimes it takes a while for it to be updated.

As for why no energy projection for rage recast people were dead set on sandstrike blast they're still dead set on Sand strike blast despite the fact that we've never had an opponent that lasted more than five rounds in a fight regardless they want to be able to endlessly throw Spears despite the fact we only have one attack per turn and two Athletics or they want to use our Essence on the same function as a grenade with the charm that's pretty much it.

Fat rendering aura that's just never come up.

JackOfAll said:
Molly's main weakness is the same as any other exalt: endurance. There is only so many charms that can be cast with limited and slowly regenerating essence pool. Too much encounters in short amount of time will leave one scrapping bottom of that pool. It was visible rather often in recent chapters. Any charm that allows her to fight longer without expending the essence is valuable.
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Preaching to the choir, preaching to the choir.
JackOfAll said:
I'm also wondering whether it is not possible to create splendor to store essence in. Even 2-3 points would be valuable. Charging penatly 2 to 1 would be nice. The 4 to 1 penalty would turn charging into strategic-use action, but it would still be worth it.
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Yeah if you only been reading the story threadmarks there's been a bunch of intermittent discussion about things that could store essence Alchemy 5 and Mana Manipulation 2 could do it but no one seems particularly interested. The only way to know if splenders or prodigies could do it would be to pitch it to Dragon Paradox and see if he approves.
 
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