I thought about how the Sight would work with ATP from the moment you got it, you just hit one of the places where (a few of) the mortals of this age have an advantage over those of Creation
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
I thought about how the Sight would work with ATP from the moment you got it, you just hit one of the places where (a few of) the mortals of this age have an advantage over those of Creation
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
Okay, we'll take into account that he's useless in these circumstances in the future. It will be a metagame of course, but what can you do.
The difficulty is 7 for this warlock because they are... broken in inventive ways. The vast, vast majority of wizards would have to roll diff 9.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
So, ATP is useless against anyone we'd actually need stealth against because Perfect Awareness is the current meta, got it, good to know even if we're in a trap where they've read all of the intel on how to beat us with.
So?
We don't know that, all we know is "The first time ATP was really needed, it got countered despite an absurdly good roll.", and the other side had a dude on hand who could make the roll to not go crazy with relative ease, and a commanding enough position that they could be spared doing nothing but monitoring a wide area for Molly, specifically. Which means they didn't need them to actually contain the situation.
Yes, it might make sense to someone behind the curtain who has access to all the moving parts. From a player facing perspective (If one who isn't active in the voting and mostly lurks like myself), it comes off as an asspull. "Yeah, All Wizards have Eye of the Unconquered Sun for 1 Willpower, there's a chance they'll fail the roll and lose a bit more, but any serious wizard opposition should be expected to never be caught by surprise, ever, no matter what kind of magic you bring to bear, because they're all packing reflexive action Perfect Awareness and most can presumably cheat hard enough to ease the die roll")
So?
We don't know that, all we know is "The first time ATP was really needed, it got countered despite an absurdly good roll.", and the other side had a dude on hand who could make the roll to not go crazy with relative ease, and a commanding enough position that they could be spared doing nothing but monitoring a wide area for Molly, specifically. Which means they didn't need them to actually contain the situation.
Yes, it might make sense to someone behind the curtain who has access to all the moving parts. From a player facing perspective (If one who isn't active in the voting and mostly lurks like myself), it comes off as an asspull. "Yeah, All Wizards have Eye of the Unconquered Sun for 1 Willpower, there's a chance they'll fail the roll and lose a bit more, but any serious wizard opposition should be expected to never be caught by surprise, ever, no matter what kind of magic you bring to bear, because they're all packing reflexive action Perfect Awareness and most can presumably cheat hard enough to ease the die roll")
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Well at the very least they know you need a song to open the way. Do note that you are in a bathroom, there is water right next to you. You could just slip out that way and try another place, though you should consider what that might be carefully since this is the middle of a city.
Anyway it is midnight for me, will talk more in the morning.
Good night guys.
That's only if you expect warlocks to have high willpower when we know most of them do not addiction very specifically can cause your willpower to not function as well as it needs to which can raise the difficulty of willpower rolls of difficulty 9 to difficulty 10 which means they automatically fail and eat a bunch of temporary willpower points and a derangement and possibly knocked unconscious.
This person has a 30% chance of not going nuts most people have a 10% chance that assumes they have 10 dies of willpower when we know warlocks just don't they're people who are either addicted to dark magic or are directly enslaved by magical sources if there will power was strong they'd be not trying to fight someone on behalf of people who enslave them.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
You only need one success to pass, on average, with three dice and Difficulty 7, you're going to pass that roll. With even average willpower (Unlikely for any Warlock who lasted long enough to survive and stabilize on some level), they're almost never going to fail that roll unless the dice are extremely cursed.
An actually seasoned Wizard, even at the full Difficulty 9, is still going to have a solid chance of enduring that hit, A 9-10 on 8-9 dice is reasonably plausible after all, though it's equally likely they'll get 1s to drag them down.
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Noticing and remembering are different though, and the system text uses "notice or acknowledge" as the descriptor.
People forget because they don't notice, but failing to notice doesn't require you to forget.
Nose blindness is a good example of this. You ever change deodorant brands and have it catching your attention for a bit afterwards before it seems to fade into background?
You don't forget what your deodorant smells like and your nose doesn't stop detecting the information, it's just not important so you disregard the information before it even makes it to conscious thought.
You fail to notice it - and are unusually aware of the new stuff - precisely because you remember it so well.
So too with AtP; it's attacking the layer between knowing something and thinking about it.
The problem here is that those mechanisms do not work for the true nature of an infernal precisely because it is so harmful ATP isn't meant to prevent mortal minds from recoiling in your presence because this is A New Development in this age of the world.
Edit: really do need to sleep now, will talk more in the morning
It really isnt.
The Sight sees through magic, and can see the truth of things, but can be blocked by physical obstructions.
Eye of the Unconquered Sun sees through walls as a Supernal.
eye oF the unConquered sun (••••)
The Solar's eyes cut through all supernatural ob-
scurity, unerringly sighting her foes.
System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence to immediate-
ly defeat all forms of supernatural concealment, invisi-
bility, and the like. Any character that is trying to hide
from the Solar is immediately revealed to her senses.
Supernal Effect: The Solar may spend 2 Essence
when activating Eye of the Unconquered Sun to open
her Caste Mark and unleash a flood of searing, all-re-
vealing light. Any being within 300 yards of the Solar
that is attempting to hide or conceal itself is outlined
in brilliant white flames that shine through all covering
and concealment, even through walls, revealing them
to all characters present, not just the Solar. There's
nothing subtle about this display: the air quakes and
seethes with golden light, shining through walls and
obstacles to banish all shadows. This display lasts until
the Solar wills it to end. All attempts to target an in-
dividual wrapped in white flames (which linger for as
long as a marked individual stays in the Solar's light)
lower their difficulty by –1
The Solar's eyes cut through all supernatural ob-
scurity, unerringly sighting her foes.
System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence to immediate-
ly defeat all forms of supernatural concealment, invisi-
bility, and the like. Any character that is trying to hide
from the Solar is immediately revealed to her senses.
Supernal Effect: The Solar may spend 2 Essence
when activating Eye of the Unconquered Sun to open
her Caste Mark and unleash a flood of searing, all-re-
vealing light. Any being within 300 yards of the Solar
that is attempting to hide or conceal itself is outlined
in brilliant white flames that shine through all covering
and concealment, even through walls, revealing them
to all characters present, not just the Solar. There's
nothing subtle about this display: the air quakes and
seethes with golden light, shining through walls and
obstacles to banish all shadows. This display lasts until
the Solar wills it to end. All attempts to target an in-
dividual wrapped in white flames (which linger for as
long as a marked individual stays in the Solar's light)
lower their difficulty by –1
Willpower is a lot more important to wizards and sorcerers routine operations, and is significantly more difficult to recover to boot, and there arent that many with permanent Willpower above 7.
They really cant afford to burn it off willy-nilly.
Or keep it active indefinitely, because you are STILL rolling for SAN every turn you have the Sight active and see something significant. Its a perfect perception ability that risks breaking the user every time they use it, and they dont get perfect mental defenses. Which is presumably why they are using a dude who's already broken.
I dont know what the QM chooses to model the mechanic as.
But when no less a person than the Gatekeeper warns about using the Sight for shit like trying to detect Outsiders, there's probably good reason
If we can't block the Sight we should spite it instead.
Looking at Molly with unblockable vision is a bad idea and technically you have to reach a decently high bar to try it, but as @Alectai points out since we're only ever going to use against people who can clear it that doesn't mean anything to us.
So let's abuse their convenient link to increase the pain they endure for trying.
9 (willpower) + 4 (essence) = 13 at difficulty 5 gives a 90% chance of 6+ successes.
Artisanal nightmares for everyone.
Edit:
Honestly this seems like a fairly arbitrary nerf.
The whole trade off with AtP is that it works around the stealth vs. perception arms race by going for the observer's reaction to what they see directly. It's why we have to be worried about getting caught on video records, someone with good mental defenses tanking it, and people without any special preparations defeating the effect entirely if we aren't mindful of what we're doing.
If you get noticed while invisible your identity isn't necessarily blown, you're still harder to attack, and if you're lucky people will still lose track of you in the chaos. AtP is all or nothing.
In exchange for navigating all of that it offers to change the question our opposition needs to answer from having better detection to having the right defenses and knowing when to use them.
But here the wizards just saw through a charm who's whole function is to make the degree of your perception irrelevant because our charm for managing how people react to us isn't strong enough to manage people's reaction to us.
The Sight beating BMI is fair play, and a Mind Sphere Warlock cooking up something to help them resist AtP at least makes sense, but this seems like allowing the exact sort of tactic the charm exists to counter work anyway for hand wave reasons.
Looking at Molly with unblockable vision is a bad idea and technically you have to reach a decently high bar to try it, but as @Alectai points out since we're only ever going to use against people who can clear it that doesn't mean anything to us.
So let's abuse their convenient link to increase the pain they endure for trying.
This subtle fascination takes appearance of a subtle glow that seems to trace the shape of invisible tattoos along the owner's arms.
Under mundane vision they are too indistinct to make out any details on, but when viewed with overtly supernatural senses like Wizard's Sight or Aura reading they resolve into a twisted sort of mirror.
They do not so much show an image as distort an impossible reflection of the viewer to show something that could be rather than something as deceptive as an illusion.
The precise form that this takes is always intensely personal and distressing, the vision of a fate they find so horrific that simply seeing it scours the soul and leaves them experiencing traumatic flashbacks for at least a week after the fact.
System:
Each turn supernatural sensory abilities like Hellscry Chakra or Wizard's Sight, but not sensory boosting abilities like low level Auspex, are used on the owner of this Splendor they roll permanent Willpower + Essence rating against a difficulty of 5. Each success strips 1 temporary point of willpower from the viewer.
If this strips more than half their permanent Willpower rating in temporary points before they avert their gaze it inflicts the PTSD derangement as described here.
Under mundane vision they are too indistinct to make out any details on, but when viewed with overtly supernatural senses like Wizard's Sight or Aura reading they resolve into a twisted sort of mirror.
They do not so much show an image as distort an impossible reflection of the viewer to show something that could be rather than something as deceptive as an illusion.
The precise form that this takes is always intensely personal and distressing, the vision of a fate they find so horrific that simply seeing it scours the soul and leaves them experiencing traumatic flashbacks for at least a week after the fact.
System:
Each turn supernatural sensory abilities like Hellscry Chakra or Wizard's Sight, but not sensory boosting abilities like low level Auspex, are used on the owner of this Splendor they roll permanent Willpower + Essence rating against a difficulty of 5. Each success strips 1 temporary point of willpower from the viewer.
If this strips more than half their permanent Willpower rating in temporary points before they avert their gaze it inflicts the PTSD derangement as described here.
9 (willpower) + 4 (essence) = 13 at difficulty 5 gives a 90% chance of 6+ successes.
Artisanal nightmares for everyone.
Why? You have to think about something to react to it. Even if they do anyway that doesn't mean they need to connect it to the source. If we set off a flash bang grenade I'd expect people to flinch but not to acknowledge Molly.
Edit:
Honestly this seems like a fairly arbitrary nerf.
The whole trade off with AtP is that it works around the stealth vs. perception arms race by going for the observer's reaction to what they see directly. It's why we have to be worried about getting caught on video records, someone with good mental defenses tanking it, and people without any special preparations defeating the effect entirely if we aren't mindful of what we're doing.
If you get noticed while invisible your identity isn't necessarily blown, you're still harder to attack, and if you're lucky people will still lose track of you in the chaos. AtP is all or nothing.
In exchange for navigating all of that it offers to change the question our opposition needs to answer from having better detection to having the right defenses and knowing when to use them.
But here the wizards just saw through a charm who's whole function is to make the degree of your perception irrelevant because our charm for managing how people react to us isn't strong enough to manage people's reaction to us.
The Sight beating BMI is fair play, and a Mind Sphere Warlock cooking up something to help them resist AtP at least makes sense, but this seems like allowing the exact sort of tactic the charm exists to counter work anyway for hand wave reasons.
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- Location
- Canada
Who the hell even is this Warlock? They're clearly a slave or a puppet, because anybody trying this shit is gonna die to Molly. It would be a win for their side to start attriting away Molly's Essence, but they'll still be dead. There's no way there's enough forces in the area, right on the White Council's doorstep, to kill Molly fast enough.
Keeping a watch out for the local godslayer is only smart, but why the hell would you engage with Molly in combat when literally no one who's tried that has won? There has to be some greater plan at work. Maybe we should retreat and reset the scene?
Keeping a watch out for the local godslayer is only smart, but why the hell would you engage with Molly in combat when literally no one who's tried that has won? There has to be some greater plan at work. Maybe we should retreat and reset the scene?
- Location
- Germany
How would that plan with the school system work?
If they use a spell to suppress music in a large area, then a different speaker won't change anything.
If they use a spell to suppress music in a large area, then a different speaker won't change anything.
Keep in mind the only reason he was able to pull this shit was that he was looking at the whole city with the sight, that took a lot of prep work, they still had to roll readiness to act within the proper timeframe and then they had to roll the spell. You guys walked into a place where wizards prepared for infiltration, your own wizards said so.
I'm not going to say that this can't work but it's not substantively different than just counter spelling and carrying our phone other places because the silencing spell is on the entire area and it is a silencing spell not an effect against music itself. The unnatural and encroaching silence seems to suggest that it's an area of affect spell rather than something targeted specifically so we would still need to counter spell at random speakers to get the effect to work at which point we're just using Essence to capture a singular sound system in a school that we're probably never coming back to when carrying clippy with us and then just choosing when and where to counter spell would do the same thing.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[x]Use Shadow Spite Curse on whoever is trying to watch you with the sight until they go insane.
-[x]CCC and BSM applies to our rolls to escape that trap so the contest should be quick.
[X] Plan: I Sense a Trap eyes open.
-[X] If they want an ambush you're willing to spring it, sword first
--[X] All Things Betray 1 essence
--[X] By Rage Recast Roll No cost
--[X] Viridian Legend Exoskeleton 1 Essence
--[X] Five Paths One Ring (Red) (Melee)
-[x]Flare Anima if they are using the sight to get though ATP might as well blind them.
--[X] Stunt: You anima flares eyes staring back at the eyes staring at you. Your essence is blinding to supernatural sight there is a reason that looking away and adverting eyes from you is a good idea. For when people stare at the abyss of you. You stare right back burning rude eyes right out of their sockets.
-[x]CCC and BSM applies to our rolls to escape that trap so the contest should be quick.
[X] Plan: I Sense a Trap eyes open.
-[X] If they want an ambush you're willing to spring it, sword first
--[X] All Things Betray 1 essence
--[X] By Rage Recast Roll No cost
--[X] Viridian Legend Exoskeleton 1 Essence
--[X] Five Paths One Ring (Red) (Melee)
-[x]Flare Anima if they are using the sight to get though ATP might as well blind them.
--[X] Stunt: You anima flares eyes staring back at the eyes staring at you. Your essence is blinding to supernatural sight there is a reason that looking away and adverting eyes from you is a good idea. For when people stare at the abyss of you. You stare right back burning rude eyes right out of their sockets.
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- Location
- Brazil
[x]Use Shadow Spite Curse on whoever is trying to watch you with the sight until they go insane.
-[x]CCC and BSM applies to our rolls to escape that trap so the contest should be quick.
[X] Use Hollow Mind Possession on the school Public Announcement system, and have it play your music. Use reemergence point at random.
-[x]CCC and BSM applies to our rolls to escape that trap so the contest should be quick.
[X] Use Hollow Mind Possession on the school Public Announcement system, and have it play your music. Use reemergence point at random.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
[X] Plan: I Sense a Trap
-[X] If they want an ambush you're willing to spring it, sword first
--[X] All Things Betray 1 Willpower
--[X] By Rage Recast Roll No cost
--[X] Viridian Legend Exoskeleton 1 Essence
--[X] Five Paths One Ring (Red) (Melee)
--[X] Stunt: Taking a deep breath as you ready yourself you feel your senses sharpen. Forming Usum's blade you turn the Wheel and Rage of your soul to the task ahead. Slightly leaving the ground broken Idols surround your form. A testing swing of your blade imbues the idols with a red sheen. You float towards the door. " Ready or not here I come." the near whisper seeming to echo in the unnatural silence.
-[X] If they want an ambush you're willing to spring it, sword first
--[X] All Things Betray 1 Willpower
--[X] By Rage Recast Roll No cost
--[X] Viridian Legend Exoskeleton 1 Essence
--[X] Five Paths One Ring (Red) (Melee)
--[X] Stunt: Taking a deep breath as you ready yourself you feel your senses sharpen. Forming Usum's blade you turn the Wheel and Rage of your soul to the task ahead. Slightly leaving the ground broken Idols surround your form. A testing swing of your blade imbues the idols with a red sheen. You float towards the door. " Ready or not here I come." the near whisper seeming to echo in the unnatural silence.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
@fictionfan @Goldfish @Azais
Guys?? In order to use Shadow Spite Curse we need to be holding a focus for the person or staring directly at them. We aren't doing either right now.
Guys?? In order to use Shadow Spite Curse we need to be holding a focus for the person or staring directly at them. We aren't doing either right now.
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[X] Plan: I Sense a Trap eyes open.
-[X] If they want an ambush you're willing to spring it, sword first
--[X] All Things Betray 1 essence
--[X] By Rage Recast Roll No cost
--[X] Viridian Legend Exoskeleton 1 Essence
--[X] Five Paths One Ring (Red) (Melee)
-[X]Flare Anima if they are using the sight to get though ATP might as well blind them.
--[X] Stunt: You anima flares eyes staring back at the eyes staring at you. Your essence is blinding to supernatural sight there is a reason that looking away and adverting eyes from you is a good idea. For when people stare at the abyss of you. You stare right back burning rude eyes right out of their sockets.
-[X] If they want an ambush you're willing to spring it, sword first
--[X] All Things Betray 1 essence
--[X] By Rage Recast Roll No cost
--[X] Viridian Legend Exoskeleton 1 Essence
--[X] Five Paths One Ring (Red) (Melee)
-[X]Flare Anima if they are using the sight to get though ATP might as well blind them.
--[X] Stunt: You anima flares eyes staring back at the eyes staring at you. Your essence is blinding to supernatural sight there is a reason that looking away and adverting eyes from you is a good idea. For when people stare at the abyss of you. You stare right back burning rude eyes right out of their sockets.
Wizards are all about preparing based on information they're exploiting. If they make the wrong prep choices that has tactical consequences.
The thing they did to prepare doesn't seem like it should be relevant to the power we used. The entire point of AtP is to hide in a way that doesn't care about how good your perception is because it never tries to fight it.
AtP doesn't itself have anything to do with memory or ability to see the infernal, it specifically goes after the target's ability to think about what they know to exploit the difference between knowing and acting.
Seeing through AtP should make as much sense as sailing off the edge of the earth. The best sailing ship in the world can't do that, not because it's impossible to reach orbit at all but because you need a rocket to try.
Guys, the opposition did all this because they want to fight us instead of facing our coalition. Rule one is never give the enemy what they want.