Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

If we get a big Hell and if the inhabitants can walk out into the rest of the Nevernever, as the inhabitants of an ExWoD Infernal's hell could walk out into the other adjacent spirit worlds, then Molly could probably replace Winter with her own personal forces.

They're currently a necessary evil. They weren't always and there's no reason they have to keep on being so. When they're no longer necessary and remain evil then we eliminate them.
 
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Not disagreeing with you really doesn't change its the wizard meme. Though I guarantee something would go wrong in this situation nothing avoiding that really its just an inherent thing that some of said exalted will cause problems. Also you know how restraining exalted goes and some of that would be tried. Also you know abyssals and infernals do not usually make for the most moral mind sets lol.
That's true, and why I specified that proper preparation would be needed, where most released shards would go to people already allied with us, and every exalt will be contacted shortly by a proper team to explain the context and obtain cooperation if possible.
Did you read my comment about the multiverse and why there are countless fae? Cause in canon there are countless realities many of which have their own nevernevers. For why the fae don't have countless fae well their separate realities their defending their own obviously or don't exist I guess infinite realities afterall. None of that matters here though cause there aren't infinite realities in quest okay?
Yes I did. Not much for me to comment on. Some of that we can't be certain about. Some of this (like Bob's comment about Spiderman in the depth of NeverNever, implying a connection to Marvel universe) might be wrong. Some, like my opinion on the legacy oath issue of the courts and their whole system makes sense to me bbut can't be proven so far. Are oaths inherited? Like, if Maeve swears an oath that Winter Lady will give Za Lord's guard pepperoni pizza every winter solistice, would the inheritor of her mantle be obligated to do the same? I am unsure (and leaning towards yes).
 
No more than when we had conscription as the law of the land. Selective Service registration is still a mandatory requirement for male Americans iirc, even though its not been used since Vietnam, its still on the books.
And its not just the US; peacenik Finland still requires peacetime conscription on pain of imprisonment.

The Miksani are supposed to have been a Native American tribe of shapeshifters, but Mab calls them Winter when talking to Molly. There's a fair amount of fuzziness there, with the only clarity being that they are in a mutual relationship where both the larger organization and the smaller society have obligations to each other.

We dont see anyone taking, say, troops from a group of humans sworn to Mab's service to serve at the Gates.
And you cant just turn random humans into Fae.
Apparently.

The difference here is that the Miksani have no say in the government demanding their "tribute" and the social contract has been totally broken with Winter failing to live up to their obligation of protection. Winter appears as far more of an abusive foreign power making demands of a people it has subjected than a legitimate government that recognizes the Miksani as citizens. It seems clear that the Miksani are giving up their children purely out of a recognition that the foreign power who controls them will respond with overwhelming force if they attempt to resist. There is considerable difference between a society placing demands on its adult citizens and a foreign power demanding tribute in the name of "security".

I can't help but think of this as a case of imperialism with the Winter Fae forcing the Miksani into their de facto empire and demanding tribute in return for empty promises of protection. It might also be a deliberate attempt at genocide as the Miskani will inevitably fall into ruin if their children are regularly taken from them. The Winter Fae going to terrible lengths to maintain a single mono-culture would explain why they tend to all be figures from European mythology rather than represent a more even balance of mythological creatures from across the world. This is obviously an in-world explanation for the real-world limitations of Jim Butcher.
 
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No more than when we had conscription as the law of the land. Selective Service registration is still a mandatory requirement for male Americans iirc, even though its not been used since Vietnam, its still on the books.
And its not just the US; peacenik Finland still requires peacetime conscription on pain of imprisonment.

The Miksani are supposed to have been a Native American tribe of shapeshifters, but Mab calls them Winter when talking to Molly. There's a fair amount of fuzziness there, with the only clarity being that they are in a mutual relationship where both the larger organization and the smaller society have obligations to each other.

We dont see anyone taking, say, troops from a group of humans sworn to Mab's service to serve at the Gates.
And you cant just turn random humans into Fae.
Apparently.
Even places like South Korea which have mandatory service rather than as needed conscription wait for you to be an adult to take you, and you do get a choice to accept punishment or outright surrender citizenship and screw off instead.

Winter doesn't do that. You're owed to them and they'll get what they paid for.

There are historical reasons for this, and it's entirely possible that they conformed the human norms of the time the deals were established.

That's an explanation though, not an excuse. When looking back on history it's important to keep context in mind, but just because people of the time didn't think something was wrong doesn't mean they're right. We're under no obligation to judge them by their own standards, as much as we can't afford to be blind to them.

All this said, moral grandstanding on this to support taking objectivity counterproductive actions like taking petty shots at Winter isn't a good idea. It's the worst sort of virtue signaling at the expense of actual progress.

I've called them complicated monsters in the past and argued that we should keep the fact that they're not pure evil in mind, but that doesn't mean ignoring the nasties aspects of what they do.
This is literally what exaltations and exalted host were made for - waging Universal War against the beings that transcend the definition of godhood, kicking the principles of Hierarchy and Rulership down from their thrones, and killing that which by definition couldn't be killed. Exalted Host succeeded once, and ultimately fell due to, at least in large part, Great Curse. Absent said Curse, and starting from an arguably better position where they don't need to lead guerilla warfare and bootstrap their society from stone age to motonic science sci-fi fantasy future, I am fairly sure we'd do better, short and long term.

I am unironically stating that, with proper preparation (that's important), breaking open Black Vault is a win condition.
I still think this is out and out crazy.

The first age had something in place from the start, unified sides and a means for keeping a lid on things. It took millennia for the exalted to have a real civil war.

If you give exaltations out to something like the modern world they're highly unlikely to cooperate very well.

Especially with the fallen exalt types that weren't present in your prime example.

Abyssals and Infernals are by vast majority not like Molly. The redemption paths exist for players, but they aren't entire factions of Drizzts just because it's an option for them. When the shards have a choice they actively select against cases like that.


We'd have 149 assorted psychos and 150 people with as much reason to fight each other as anyone else even before the existing powers get involved trying to pull them into their orbits.

What prep could you feasibly accomplish that could actually make that work?
 
By the way I laughed at the black vault comment nothing else was laughable at best it was information with false premises you wouldn't have known. I laughed cause the idea of releasing all the exaltations and going this'll probably go fine is hilarious to me.

Edit: Its basically the wizard meme.
Essentially this.

The idea that several hundred Celestial Exaltations with no common background, and no shared goals would suddenly come to some sort of unified accord instead of engaging in a new series of power grabs is wishful thinking. We cant even get nations to collaborate on obvious ongoing catastrophes without everyone seeking advantage.

The Exaltations in the Primordial War came into being in the setting of an organized structure for receiving and mobilizing new Exalts to a common goal. None of that exists here. Shit will promptly descend into chaos.
And Chaos.

Its not like First Age Solars didn't literally resort to fighting each other so hard that they broke time.
 
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If we get a big Hell and if the inhabitants can walk out into the rest of the Nevernever, as the inhabitants of an ExWoD Infernal's hell could walk out into the other adjacent spirit worlds, then Molly could probably replace Winter with her own personal forces.

They're currently a necessary evil. They weren't always and there's no reason they have to keep on being so. When they're no longer necessary and remain evil then we eliminate them.
Nobody with any sense of responsibility towards their people would willingly sign them up for a forever war.
And Molly's Hell is still majority human, not Fae.
Human resilience, human capabilities. Human vulnerabilities.

Nevermind if the rest of the setting trust you enough to actually give you the ability to end Creation in an afternoon by opening the Gates.
 
If we get a big Hell and if the inhabitants can walk out into the rest of the Nevernever, as the inhabitants of an ExWoD Infernal's hell could walk out into the other adjacent spirit worlds, then Molly could probably replace Winter with her own personal forces.

They're currently a necessary evil. They weren't always and there's no reason they have to keep on being so. When they're no longer necessary and remain evil then we eliminate them.
Couple problems with that even if we could replace them should we as those are our people. I understand periodically providing armies worth over time. But, fully committing means taking our hell and personally making them responsible for the war at the outer gates and morally thats pretty fucked also selfishly I want our people to not have to do that? Like military personnel maybe but committing the whole of our people to it or even a large percentage really?
 
Abyssals and Infernals are by vast majority not like Molly. The redemption paths exist for players, but they aren't entire factions of Drizzts just because it's an option for them. When the shards have a choice they actively select against cases like that.
I agree with most of your post, just that little detail is propably not right in this age.

The Abyssals simply go to a dying person with the same potential as a Solar:
The dying individual must also meet the same standards of excellence and supernatural awareness as a candidate for Solar Exaltation, although the Abyssal Exaltation is no more particular about supernatural taint than is a Lunar Exaltation.
The Infernals have the same conditions about potential greatness and some exposure to the supernatural and also this:
Finally, the individual must feel in her heart of hearts that she has failed to grasp her dreams, or has attained and squandered them, and that her life is a failure. Despair is the beacon that guides the Infernal Exaltations, and they can only infuse their stolen and twisted power into the hearts of the weak and the wounded.


So neither of those are predestined to be in any way evil.
Their abilities are edgy, but there is no Great Curse, no Torment and only a tiny remnant of Abyssal Resonance to drive the candidates towards evil deeds.

By my guess, the average of all Exalted, no matter what type, will be the average of driven and ambitious humans.
Which is more than enough to cause massive chaos, I'm not trying to argue against the rest of your post, but it's not like some kinds will be particularly bad.
 
That's true, and why I specified that proper preparation would be needed, where most released shards would go to people already allied with us, and every exalt will be contacted shortly by a proper team to explain the context and obtain cooperation if possible.

Yes I did. Not much for me to comment on. Some of that we can't be certain about. Some of this (like Bob's comment about Spiderman in the depth of NeverNever, implying a connection to Marvel universe) might be wrong. Some, like my opinion on the legacy oath issue of the courts and their whole system makes sense to me bbut can't be proven so far. Are oaths inherited? Like, if Maeve swears an oath that Winter Lady will give Za Lord's guard pepperoni pizza every winter solistice, would the inheritor of her mantle be obligated to do the same? I am unsure (and leaning towards yes).
Its kinda proven simply cause butcher said there are realities without magic and things like the nevernever. so that kinda precludes that not all realities are in the nevernever. Not to mention hes writing a book based in another reality where different choices were made and that reality exists as much as the mainstream universe and presumably those things will have affects on things in the nevernever that wont affect the mainstream universe. So yeah kinda proven?

Also I'm not sure bob said it was in the nevernever just that said reality exists.
 
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The difference here is that the Miksani have no say in the government demanding their "tribute" and the social contract has been totally broken with Winter failing to live up to their obligation of protection. Winter appears as far more of an abusive foreign power making demands of a people it has subjected than a legitimate government that recognizes the Miksani as citizens. It seems clear that the Miksani are giving up their children purely out of a recognition that the foreign power who controls them will respond with overwhelming force if they attempt to resist. There is considerable difference between a society placing demands on its adult citizens and a foreign power demanding tribute in the name of "security".

I can't help but think of this as a case of imperialism with the Winter Fae forcing the Miksani into their de facto empire and demanding tribute in return for empty promises of protection. It might also be a deliberate attempt at genocide as the Miskani will inevitably fall into ruin if their children are regularly taken from them. The Winter Fae going to terrible lengths to maintain a single mono-culture would explain why they tend to all be figures from European mythology rather than represent a more even balance of mythological creatures from across the world. This is obviously an in-world explanation for the real-world limitations of Jim Butcher.
uh no their european not cause butcher is limited to thinking in that area. But, because they literally are from Europe. There are wyld fae around the world but the courts originated in Europe. Mab literally knew merlin at some point when she was mortal. Butchers done pretty well introducing non european stuff at times hes talked to native americans in real life and integrated things, looks at neo shamanism, and other stuff.
 
Nobody with any sense of responsibility towards their people would willingly sign them up for a forever war.
And Molly's Hell is still majority human, not Fae.
Human resilience, human capabilities. Human vulnerabilities.

Nevermind if the rest of the setting trust you enough to actually give you the ability to end Creation in an afternoon by opening the Gates.

We could easily have a hell that was majority devil if we chose; with characters that would be much more suitable for a forever war than the Winter Fae.

And the Winter Court seems to have taken the role of guardians of the gates and then used that to hold the world hostage, not been given it.

Couple problems with that even if we could replace them should we as those are our people. I understand periodically providing armies worth over time. But, fully committing means taking our hell and personally making them responsible for the war at the outer gates and morally thats pretty fucked also selfishly I want our people to not have to do that? Like military personnel maybe but committing the whole of our people to it or even a large percentage really?

We could have triple digit billions of devils in our hell who would be very enthusiastic; and probably not conventionally people either.
 
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uh no their european not cause butcher is limited to thinking in that area. But, because they literally are from Europe. There are wyld fae around the world but the courts originated in Europe. Mab literally knew merlin at some point when she was mortal. Butchers done pretty well introducing non european stuff at times hes talked to native americans in real life and integrated things, looks at neo shamanism, and other stuff.

European mythology is vastly overrepresented compared to human population and history. We have some small amount of North American mythology but absolutely nothing from India, China, Africa, or the Middle East. The Winter Fae literally being from Europe and having conquered the Fae equivalent of other regions is my point. There is an implied genocide or at least barring from power.
 
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What prep could you feasibly accomplish that could actually make that work?
Identify the people likely to receive an exaltation. Ally with as many of them as possible. Set up means by which to track the released exaltations. Contact the people receiving them immediately. Prepare suitable hosts ahead of time. Overachievement-wise, unify humanity first, with yourself as a genuinely beloved godqueen.

At least quickly locate and provide resources to sidereals and have them help in locating and taking the others into the fold.

And as to your counter-argument, you are thinking about too late an age. Think earlier. Think the start of Sol's and Autochton's rebelion. The conditions right now are far more suitable for a unified humanity working together than they were then.
The Exaltations in the Primordial War came into being in the setting of an organized structure for receiving and mobilizing new Exalts to a common goal. None of that exists here.
Doesn't exist here now. It can be created prior to opening the Vault. And if the only alternative is letting Winter and its like to keep doing what they are doing in the name of maintaining existence? I would choose Black Vault 100 times out of 100 times. A chance of a better future is better than a guaranteed endless nightmare.
And Molly's Hell is still majority human, not Fae.
That's not a given at all. In the Fivefold courts humans are not the majority of the population and, in fact, not the most populous of species.
Also I'm not sure bob said it was in the nevernever just that said reality exists.
I'll check it out later.
We could have triple digit billions of devils in our hell who would be very enthusiastic; and probably not conventionally people either.
No we cannot. The ruling was 5 billions at most, and that's for advanced society, because you need a lot of people running thigns that don't exist in less advanced societies.
By my guess, the average of all Exalted, no matter what type, will be the average of driven and ambitious humans.
Which is more than enough to cause massive chaos, I'm not trying to argue against the rest of your post, but it's not like some kinds will be particularly bad.
Indeed. I agree that even with preparation it'll be a chaotic time, but I am optimistic about the nature of humanity.
 
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European mythology is vastly overrepresented compared to human population and history. We have some small amount of North American mythology but absolutely nothing from India, China, Africa, or the Middle East. The Winter Fae literally being from Europe and having conquered the Fae equivalent of other regions is my entire point.
In fairness you said in regards to the fae. Also conquering of fae from other regions uh well fae have an origin of no older than 1500 years old there for the purposes of dresden files isn't really any foreign fae just winter, summer, and unaffiliated wyld fae. Though something helped make them so older than that maybe technically. They didn't conquer the foreign versions of them they've always been part of each other. For China eh jade vampires exist they just aren't introduced as much also they are quite literally in the united states and dealing with mostly european politics since thats where the council originated. But, again there were never foreign fae they just started sprouting over the years as far as I know and travelling.

Tibetan foo dogs exist which have ancestors of some kind, eastern dragons to an extent apparently exist some of them are definitely asian, hes mentioned djinn before and a scion of them so middle east, the grey council is allied with kenku another eastern being hundreds of them came to fight in changes, for India Nagas exist, the qarin came up s an Arabic guardian angel of sorts, duty-bound to a human being. Though often classified among the Djinns,[22] with which they share some characteristics, Qarin (literally "constant companion") are distinct entities; spiritual doubles of human beings, either as an extension of them or as individual creatures. So he includes these things their just less part of the main stuff as often since just regional shits going on the worlds a god damn kitchen sink and the world has no less of these things their just less likely to be in dresdens area. But, there are still plenty of cases so their certainly not ignored. Heck one of the quotes out of story is about a hindu holy tree can be just as much holy as christian things in this universe and that while God hasn't changed peoples image of them has. So even the christian stuff apparently isn't purely christian stuff.

In Blood Rites, the Shen[Footnote 14] is a Chinese shapeshifter, which can appear either as a sea dragon or a clam, and can cast mirages. Actually when talking about fae there are just four groups so far shown summer court, winter court, wyldfae, and minor courts like the welsh fey court or whatever the svartalves are.
 
The difference here is that the Miksani have no say in the government demanding their "tribute" and the social contract has been totally broken with Winter failing to live up to their obligation of protection. Winter appears as far more of an abusive foreign power making demands of a people it has subjected than a legitimate government that recognizes the Miksani as citizens. It seems clear that the Miksani are giving up their children purely out of a recognition that the foreign power who controls them will respond with overwhelming force if they attempt to resist. There is considerable difference between a society placing demands on its adult citizens and a foreign power demanding tribute in the name of "security".

I can't help but think of this as a case of imperialism with the Winter Fae forcing the Miksani into their de facto empire and demanding tribute in return for empty promises of protection. It might also be a deliberate attempt at genocide as the Miskani will inevitably fall into ruin if their children are regularly taken from them. The Winter Fae going to terrible lengths to maintain a single mono-culture would explain why they tend to all be figures from European mythology rather than represent a more even balance of mythological creatures from across the world. This is obviously an in-world explanation for the real-world limitations of Jim Butcher.
Winter is not a democracy(I think Butcher once said that Mab considers it a passing fad).
Thats not the same thing as individual interest groups having no voice at Court, and no influence on overall policy.

In the Cold Case, it does appear to make it clear that Winter did not recruit from the Miksani for years.
Hell, given that Winter is magically bound to keep its word, its entirely possible they physically cant request troops without carrying out their part of any prior agreement made.

Imperialism? Doesnt seem so.
We didn't see Summer here, and opposing Winter overreach is their job.
The lack of Summer opposition suggests this is a lawful, established relationship. Internal Winter matter.
Even places like South Korea which have mandatory service rather than as needed conscription wait for you to be an adult to take you, and you do get a choice to accept punishment or outright surrender citizenship and screw off instead.

Winter doesn't do that. You're owed to them and they'll get what they paid for.
We dont know how things work internally with the Fae in the canon Dresdenverse.

The only hints we get is that changelings usually cant be forced to choose a Court(Lily, Fix and Sarissa were apparently exceptions), and that wyldfae who dont swear to either Court are also a thing, and are supposed to be far more numerous than either Court.

We know that supernaturals can swear fealty to the Winter Court without having been born one; Talvi Inverno, who is a Finnish demigod, did so after years of being expelled from his mother's court. And if Bob used to be part of the Winter Court, then that means you can relinquish membership, with its rights and responsibilities.

===
There are historical reasons for this, and it's entirely possible that they conformed the human norms of the time the deals were established.

That's an explanation though, not an excuse. When looking back on history it's important to keep context in mind, but just because people of the time didn't think something was wrong doesn't mean they're right. We're under no obligation to judge them by their own standards, as much as we can't afford to be blind to them.

All this said, moral grandstanding on this to support taking objectivity counterproductive actions like taking petty shots at Winter isn't a good idea. It's the worst sort of virtue signaling at the expense of actual progress.

I've called them complicated monsters in the past and argued that we should keep the fact that they're not pure evil in mind, but that doesn't mean ignoring the nasties aspects of what they do.
Sure, agreed.
If we can effect meaningful change safely, we would be remiss not to try.

I just feel duty bound to repeatedly point out that Winter isn't doing things because LolEvil.
And that community standards for when they were established, and for much of the supernatural community, is very much not the same as modern humanity.

Immortals and long-lived people tend to change slower than mortals.
We could easily have a hell that was majority devil if we chose; with characters that would be much more suitable for a forever war than the Winter Fae.

And the Winter Court seems to have taken the role of guardians of the gates and then used that to hold the world hostage, not been given it.
-No we cant.
Majority population being human is a hard rule for a reason.
And Molly would not be any happier to put her devils in an unending war either.


-We dont actually know what the requirements for a forever war ARE.
This is not Exalted Creation.
And its the height of hubris to assume that we can automatically do better than everyone else.


-The Winter Court didn't take the role of guardian. They didn't have the power to take that role.
Nothing in the Dresdenverse mythology has ever suggested they were ever more than foot soldiers initially.
The job was given to them. And they were bound to it.

Seriously, you seem to believe that guarding the Outer Gates is some plum job to covet.
Instead of a grim duty where you feed your people into a meat grinder for centuries.
 
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Identify the people likely to receive an exaltation.
Your plan makes a hard stop right here.
If the fucking Primordials couldn't do it, you are not.
If they could, the Primordial War would have gone very differently.

Doesn't exist here now. It can be created prior to opening the Vault. And if the only alternative is letting Winter and its like to keep doing what they are doing in the name of maintaining existence? I would choose Black Vault 100 times out of 100 times. A chance of a better future is better than a guaranteed endless nightmare.
1) There may be no Black Vault in this setting.
Its quite a jump to assume it exists.

2) The infrastructure in canon was created by two Primordials, seven Incarna, and millions of gods and hangers on, and at least two complete alien races.

The idea you are going to replicate that with one Infernal and an Exigent?
Or even the resources of one Hell?
Is frankly ridiculous IMO.

That's not a given at all. In the Fivefold courts humans are not the majority of the population and, in fact, not the most populous of species.
Im looking at the book right now; there does not appear to be an option for devils or other superhuman to be the majority of the population. To be a significant minority yes. For it to be uninhabited yes.
Majority no.
 
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One thing that might be worth keeping in mind, Mab probably does not expect you to approve of her or the way the Winter Court does business. She knows who Molly's father is and that she is is close to Harry. Odds are she is not expecting a fan or even someone who is neutral on the court considering how you were introduced to them.
 
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2) The infrastructure in canon was created by two Primordials, seven Incarna, and millions of gods and hangers on, and at least two complete alien races.

The idea you are going to replicate that with one Infernal and an Exigent?
Or even the resources of one Hell?
Is frankly ridiculous IMO.
it also faced the opposition of multiple slave races, and Primordials in their prime holding domain over Creation.
Im looking at the book right now; there does not appear to be an option for devils or other superhuman to be the majority of the population. To be a significant minority yes. For it to be uninhabited yes.
Majority no.
Citation please. The only thing I can find is:
Human Populace (Cost: None): The Realm has a native human population, with their own culture and a history that, strangely, significantly predates the creation
of the Kingdom.
• Resident Devils (Cost: 1 point): The Realm has a significant population of superhuman beings such as bakemono and wicked spirits.
These are two separate traits, bought independently. Nowhere that I can find does it say that you can't have devils without humans. nowhere does it say that "significant" is "significant minority". Just significant, in absolute numbers.

So, citation please.
 
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Winter is not a democracy(I think Butcher once said that Mab considers it a passing fad).
Thats not the same thing as individual interest groups having no voice at Court, and no influence on overall policy.

In the Cold Case, it does appear to make it clear that Winter did not recruit from the Miksani for years.
Hell, given that Winter is magically bound to keep its word, its entirely possible they physically cant request troops without carrying out their part of any prior agreement made.

Imperialism? Doesnt seem so.
We didn't see Summer here, and opposing Winter overreach is their job.
The lack of Summer opposition suggests this is a lawful, established relationship. Internal Winter matter.

The Miksani say that they have been trying to get in touch with Winter to request help for the supernatural predator preying on their children but have not received any response. My take on this was that it meant they were almost entirely isolated from the larger Winter Fae community with the Winter Maiden (formerly Maeve) being the only real point of contact when she comes to collect tribute.

It is imperialism in the sense that it is a small community providing a larger community with tribute that they very clearly do not wish to give. It can't be defined as "internal Winter matter" when the Miksani would not classify themselves as Winter in the absence of a threat of force.

This is like the British Empire demanding its colonies provide them with tribute. The systems that kept these colonies subjugated and defined them as a component of the British Empire are the very manifestation of imperialism. It can only be defined as an internal matter if you accept the logic of the imperialist. A more objective evaluation clearly shows it as a foreign power abusing a subjugated people.

The only difference is that we cannot easily reject the claim that the tribute is being used for a "greater good" due to WORD OF JIM saying the Winter Fae are truthful in their claim to be the ultimate defense against an Outside invasion. This doesn't prevent the Winter / Summer Fae from being an imperialistic empire who have subjugated the majority of the other fae and created an artificial mono-culture that forcefully suppresses any deviation.
 
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One thing that might be worth keeping in mind, Mab probably does not expect you to approve of her or the way the Winter Court does business. She knows who Molly's father is and that she is is close to Harry. Odds are she is not expecting a fan or even someone who is neutral on the court considering how you were introduced to them.
so we come in give her a hug and call her mab-chan :p
She'll never expect it!
 
The Miksani say that they have been trying to get in touch with Winter to request help for the supernatural predator preying on their children but have not received any response. My take on this was that it meant they were almost entirely isolated from the larger Winter Fae community with the Winter Maiden (formerly Maeve) being the only real point of contact when she comes to collect tribute.

It is imperialism in the sense that it is a small community providing a larger community with tribute that they very clearly do not wish to give. It can't be defined as "internal Winter matter" when the Miksani would not classify themselves as Winter in the absence of a threat of force.

This is like the British Empire demanding its colonies provide them with tribute. The systems that kept these colonies subjugated and defined them as a component of the British Empire are the very manifestation of imperialism. It can only be defined as an internal matter if you accept the logic of the imperialist. A more objective evaluation clearly shows it as a foreign power abusing a subjugated people.

The only difference is that we cannot easily reject the claim that the tribute is being used for a "greater good" due to WORD OF JIM saying the Winter Fae are truthful in their claim to be the ultimate defense against an Outside invasion. This doesn't prevent the Winter / Summer Fae from being an imperialistic empire who have subjugated the majority of the other fae and created an artificial mono-culture that forcefully suppresses any deviation.
did you ignore what I wrote about fae? Like they all started in europe they didn't just go on a conquering spree they originally come from the same source all of them. Also did you read the mention of the many different non European beings I mentioned? Also mono culture the majority of fae are wyld fae for fuck sakes by a decent majority?
 
[X] To the point
-[X] Wear your normal clothes, a bit of punk as usual, over the chainmail.
-[X] Activate IPM (1 WP) and All Things Betray plus Hellscry Chakra (2 Essence)
-[X] You are here to exchange information. You have an interest in anything she knows about your Exaltation and on the other hand you have information that are directly relevant to her primary task and to the strenght and unity of her Court.
-[X] After the meat of the matter has been cleared, offer the keys to Mab's new car as a little present to the visitor.
 
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