There is no indication anywhere that they are dependent on each other and that you have to take the human one to take the devil one, so population of pure devil is perfectly in the cards.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
There is no indication anywhere that they are dependent on each other and that you have to take the human one to take the devil one, so population of pure devil is perfectly in the cards.
They are at the very least present on every continent in some regard, Molly does not know more details than that.
- Location
- washington
no no no thats fair I'm just going like there have to be areas where they don't have much more influence than bob the random fae and occasional local consensus. Also places where they are nowhere like the top power like I highly doubt there are any fae active in chichen itza. Except when they've likely sent messengers in their history lol.
- Location
- washington
huh looking at jim word of god bit random on my part but he said the last time a queen died was the last time things were horrible in the wizarding world. I wonder how bad it had to be considering none of kemmlers stuff was considered bad by said standards lol. Maybe there was a major outsiders insurgency during that time or something. Unless they weren't yet guarding the gates which is possible I'd guess.
There are certainly places where they are not the main power in the local area, but of all supernatural factions the Fey Courts have the most power projection, that is why Mab was the one to guarantee the Accords, no one else bar the already overstretched White Council had the global reach... and in any case many supernatural factions would not trust the wizards to be even handed in their dealings.
- Location
- washington
At least that we know of yet I don't trust butcher to not introduce a faction with as much potential projection power later on. Though I don't think its likely I don't think its impossible either that he introduces some reclusive supernatural empire. Also probably at least minor factions out there we've not heard of since they aren't relevant to Dresden. Like probably some stuff in Asia or Africa which we've never seen.
One sad thing about dresden files is I'm fairly sure we're never gonna fully understand wtf is fully going on in the world. I mean codex alera certainly didn't explain everything and dresden files is a far bigger kitchen sink where things from basically all myths exist in some capacity. I could totally see the kenku stuff never be explained for instance and why the fuck their allied with the grey council.
[X] Plan "Etiquette"
Why? Are you basing this on point cost? Also, note that the human population trait is for a native human population, it has nothing to do with how Hells operate (i.e. with the souls of the damned ending up there). It's about people, living people, being born, living and dying in hell (with a possiblity that their afterlife is not that hell).
Where is this from? Cause the ExWoD has some pretty heavy implications in the Abyssal section and I can't find that snippet.
This is the quote it leads in with to set the tone:
This is the direct description of what they are:
They're a murder attempt on reality looking for tragic victims to fire the gun.
Most caste descriptors have more entries like "nihilistic prophet" than stable archetypes for all they don't have a monopoly.
Then you get into the actual experience of being an Abyssal:
Of all the exalts, these guys are the only ones still haunted by their major curses. Everything about this is built to alienating and uncomfortable. To make someone feel disconnected and distant from humanity.
I find it difficult to believe that they're genuinely supposed to equally go to heroes who died in their moment of glory as serial killers and death cult leaders.
The expectations are baked into the entire structure of the exalted spark.
As to Infernals:
There are active intelligences looking for people who appeal to the sensibilities of the hells. The rush stops them from being perfect about it, but that's a clear bias to the results. The formulation of the answer makes it clear that the antihero bit is supposed to be unusual on a statistical level.
Which makes sense, because the themes are subverted to the point of parody if every form of solaroid are actually the same wielder wise and just have different paint. It's a world with Drizzt but no chaotic evil Drow.
That's ridiculous. We can't possibly track every potential candidate, especially since some people might step up and qualify with no prior sign. Like a mediocre rent a cop finding their courage during a mass shooting.
You're being wildly optimistic even without bringing in all the supernatural stuff messing with the plan. No radicals? No grudges? No fundamental disagreements turned into bitter feuds. I don't believe we can avoid new ones popping up, much less keep the old ones from seeping in.
If we can genuinely make everyone from Hell to the Outsiders step off the scramble for exalted sparks we'd hardly need them.
Molly didn't seem to think there were other options for the people she was taking. This is a fig leaf at best.
I agree it's not about being evil for the sake of it. Many of the paranoid ideas thrown around are ridiculous because they focus on being as awful or bad for us as possible without accounting for Winter actually being able to do math without using their fingers having a genuine interest in their own agendas.
But in moderating that impulse we shouldn't go too far into sweeping things either obviously or highly likely to be awful under the rug.
Not all of them. We only need a majority or even plurality of them. In fact, just having a system set up which can quickly link sidereals (because remember, sidereals are explicitly here to save the world) would be enough.
My main point is that on the balance, empowering humanity is good for humanity. Even if some of that power will go to the worst parts of humanity, the larger part is going to go to heroes (solars, lunars, sidereals, at least some infernals, and for infernals we have more options here, if we can unearth the shards one by one and influence the selection process). And with proper preparation, and cooperation of the heavenly host, that number can be increased.
I refuse the notion that on the balance humans are better off being cattle.
There is hope for Abyssals yet:
Unconquered Hero's Faith
EDIT:
And canon Abyssal (Skull Girl) is a hero that works with a Solar and a Sidereal:
EDIT2:
And then there's who Abyssals are drawn from:
Dusk
MIdnight
Daybreak
Day
Moonshadow
The list of Abyssal candidates doesn't concentrate on evil people. A police officer slain in the line of duty is just as likely to rise as a Dusk as the mad necromancer he shot is to rise as a Daybreak.
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They aren't better off being cattle, but that's a false dichotomy.
A plurality isn't enough with exalts. Even a few are enough to make a huge mess of everything around them if we're lucky enough for them to be obvious about it.
You're also not seriously accounting for failure.
Getting 151 exalts and having 149 running around would be an astounding success in an absolute sense, but still result in an untold amount of damage. How much fun would the crown of eyes be if someone with it teamed up with the Denarians?
Your blind trust in the idea that we can somehow make detection work without any details on how a global police state across variably hostile territory would actually work, how extractions would play out, how we'd herd the super powered cats that are the exalted in defiance of their backgrounds and motivations, or any of the other background details would work don't encourage confidence.
Getting humanity built up to stand on their own feet and live up to the potential the supernatural fears in them is a much more practical and ultimately beneficial approach for the average person than unleashing 300 unstable god-kings.
That's not feasible, sadly enough. Because gradual increase of power of the cattle (and that's what humanity is to most supernatural factions) will be met with reprisal. The status quo (humans are ignorant pawns at best) benefits the powers that be. I feal that the amount of blood spilled by going this route is higher than the amount of blood spilled by introducing 300 god kings drawn from the greatest (not the best, but the greatest) of potentials of humanity.
Also, I don't consider Molly (or, on a doylist level, the players of this quest) special in any significant way (as far as her moral character goes). If she can be trusted with this power, others can be too.
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Hope isn't lost, but it's rare and not the default. The point of Abyssals is very excruciatingly clear.
Allowances are made to allow you to play tragic anti-heroes at the table, but that loses all meaning if literally everyone is one.
You're acting like this is a given simply because it's possible.
Equally likely? The criteria are biased by the selection criteria. The point is a tragic victim or someone else who can be made a monster.
The deviations aren't the mean.
How many dyed in the wool Abyssal murder fiends do you suppose is an acceptable number to come out of this?
It's dramatically better than what you're proposing. Functionally speaking it's nuking the planet because you don't like how it's run and hoping that the post apocalypse reformation goes well.
It'll be hard, but it's a battle that can be fought and actually advanced along in all sorts of ways without gambling with burning reality down.
Screw this "objectively she's no better or worse than anyone" thing. Arguably it's true, but it doesn't matter. People are not all equally trustworthy and we don't have any means of checking who'll actually get the power.
IC the world rolled the dice once and crit succeeded on getting an Infernal that isn't a megalomaniac and has legitimate benevolent intent. We have no guarantees about anyone else.
Every draw is either candy or cyanide and you can't tell which till you've eaten it.
Every draw is an immortality pill or full of mercury. I fundamentally disagree with the notion that the downside or Black Vault opening would be, on the balance, negative. Exalts aren't unstoppable because there are always other exalts to stop them.
And yes, the battle can be fought. Needs to be fought, efen. The oceans of blood spilled in that fight can be lessened by introducing exalts into the mix.
People aren't equally trustworthy. But more people are trustworthy than not. If they weren't, society and humanity couldn't work. The untrustworthy ones are deviants, not the norm.
IC the world didn't roll a nat1, and that was enough.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
The idea that the Black Vault opening would be a good thing is just pure naivety. There are too many competing factions, too many rival nation states, too many corporate interests, and just generally too many shitty people to expect that to actually go well. The world is full of assholes and people who would gleefully exploit the stupid and greedy.
We, the Human race, would be immensely lucky if even half of the resulting Exalts were a collective good rather than an anchor around our necks at best or actively detrimental to continued existence of civilization and sentient life at worst.
We, the Human race, would be immensely lucky if even half of the resulting Exalts were a collective good rather than an anchor around our necks at best or actively detrimental to continued existence of civilization and sentient life at worst.
[X] Plan "Etiquette"
I really like Plan Pendragon, but on the slim chance what we are doing is recognized it would send a bad message because we are imitating someone who is a servant. This plan is close enough, and has most of the same social buffs while also allowing the enemy to make the first move so we can know what she thinks the meeting should be about.
I really like Plan Pendragon, but on the slim chance what we are doing is recognized it would send a bad message because we are imitating someone who is a servant. This plan is close enough, and has most of the same social buffs while also allowing the enemy to make the first move so we can know what she thinks the meeting should be about.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
For what it's worth the first volume of the light novel doesn't come out for another 1.5ish weeks.
[X]Plan Pendragon
- Location
- washington
Not to take away but there aren't all too many infernals much less ones that would get the same crown as us right? At max we'd see maybe 5 with it or something I'd guess.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Even one other is too many, if that person is an asshole. We could probably bring down every major government in the world in just a few months if we really wanted to, simply by asking the right questions and spreading the answers around to the right people.
- Location
- washington
Speaking of this I wouldn't mind looking at government figures faces across the world and using a crown on them off screen to rack up some answers. Like what's a list of the crimes they've knowingly done not that they don't get away with them anyways or secrets they have.
An exalted hardly need a the crown of eyes for that, just hit them with bureaucratic charms, and everything falls apart.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm pretty sure NWS lets us blackmail any politician we can successfully make eye contact with. And we have the Subterfuge Excellency to pull off some pretty good disguises for getting close enough, even if we don't get the Perfect Disguise charm from Kakuri.
Or we can use Mocking Murmurs Retort on any of their live speeches from the comfort of our living room and ruin their careers in a single stroke. The Infernal charmset is really good at destabilizing society in whatever way we want. Getting rid of a single politician is child's play.
Or we can use Mocking Murmurs Retort on any of their live speeches from the comfort of our living room and ruin their careers in a single stroke. The Infernal charmset is really good at destabilizing society in whatever way we want. Getting rid of a single politician is child's play.
- Location
- Germany
Both from the The Wheel Turns chapter of ExWoD.
Page 29f for the Infernals, page 26 for the Abyssals.
There's a lot of evil fluff around them, but at a fundamental level Abyssal Exaltations look for a dying hero, while INfernal ones look for one who shares the pain of failure with them.
*opens mouth to talk about Abyssals*
Spoilers, Spoilers everywhere
*closes mouth*
Spoilers, Spoilers everywhere
*closes mouth*
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