General Exalted Thread

[grommile]

They did. They mentioned the need for any Wyld-shaping charmtech possessed by Terrestrial Exalts to fit the themes of Terrestrial Exalts, which (in their view, at least) the extant Solar charmtech for shaping the Wyld doesn't.

Then they sat down and wrote charmtech for Terrestrial Exalts to shape the Wyld with.

 

[Chehrazad]

Oh hey, it even looks like some nice fellow went and wrote a large post, containing the most prominent Terrestrial themes...

He must be a very thoughtful and knowledgeable person, in fact if I had the opportunity I would totally follow such a person and throw lots of Likes at him.

 

[Graveless]

(To be honest it kind of hurts that Dragon-Blooded don't have Infernal-Style Charms, so that I could just learn Fire Charms or Water Charms. They do that in Kerisgame right?)

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I tried to do this, but it didn't wind up working as well as I thought it would. The themes for each element didn't resonate as strongly as those of each Yozi and the those of the Dragonblooded as a whole were lost within each individual element. In order to cover the needed bases, there was a huge pan-elemental tree which covered effects that every aspect should have or that have a lot of variability based on element(Dragon Graced Weapon, Elemental Bolt, etc). Important low-hanging fruit charms that said a lot about how Dragonblooded society works(Ten Thousand Dragons Fight as One) were locked deeper into trees than they had been with abilities to prevent every charm tree from becoming a pyramid or grouping of towers.

Though, that may have been caused by my own weakness as a charm designer at the time, instead of an issue with the concept as a whole.

I've found that expanding on the number of charms which can be used to aid allies worked out much better for me.

Here are some other charms I dug up.


Athletics:

Bolstering Updraft
Cost: 4m Min: Athletics 4, Essence 3 Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious, Cooperative
Duration: Instant
Requires: Falling Star Maneuver
With a wave of the hand the Dragon-Blooded may propel his allies across the battlefield and strengthen their blows with his own might.
This charm may be activated whenever an ally is moving and comes within Essence yards of the Dragon-Blooded. It adds his Strength+Athletics to the ally's movement. This additional movement can be done in any direction, including straight up or down, but must be in a straight line.
If the ally makes an attack on the same tick that this charm was used, add 2 to the damage dealt.
Multiple Dragon-Blooded may cooperatively activate this charm on the same target if the target passes within their Essence yards of each of them as part of the movement. Each additional activation further increases the target's movement by the initiator's Strength+Athletics(which may redirect the direction of the movement) and grants an additional 2 damage to the next attack.
An individual target can be aided by no more than her Dexterity activations of this charm during a single action.

Awareness:

Watching Your Brother's Back
Cost: 2m Min: Awareness 4, Essence 3 Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Requires: One Awareness Excellency
While a Princess of the Earth may realize that there is something wrong, often her allies are not as aware of their surroundings. By activating this charm the Dragon-Blooded can remove the unexpected quality from any attack that she can perceive by signaling an appropriate response for the person to take.
The target of the attack must be able to sense the Exalt in some way for this charm to function

Eyes of the Crowd Technique
Cost: 3m Min: Awareness 5, Essence 4 Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Requires: Sense Riding Technique
The Dragon-Blooded further refines her ability to borrow the senses of others. She may draw upon all within Essence*10 yards as if she were using sense riding technique. Though the sensations only persist for an instant.
This charm removes the unexpected quality from any event that anyone in her radius can perceive. However, the sudden burst of information is very distracting, inflicting a -1 external penalty on all rolls and static values during the tick that she activated this charm.
Beyond the defensive properties, this charm also allows for ease of gathering information. The Dragon-Blooded may make a Wits+Awareness roll at a difficulty equal to the magnitude of beings affected to pick out what a given individual was doing at the time.

Larceny:

Hiding in the Rapids Method
Cost: 2m Min: Larceny 4, Essence 2 Type: Reflexive(Step 9)
Keywords: Combo-OK, Counterattack
Duration: Instant
Requires: Any Larceny Excellency
The Dragon-Blooded carefully steps through the battlefield watching her foes, ready to respond to any moment of weakness or distraction. She may activate this charm whenever one of her allies successfully defends against a foe's attack to grant herself an attack against that foe in step 9. This attack is resolved as a counterattack.
A given foe may have this charm used on them multiple times during the fight, but the Dragon Blooded suffers a stacking -1 internal penalty on every attack after the first against a given target within the same scene.

Melee:

Ally Warding Stance
Cost: 3m Min: Melee 3, Essence 2 Type: Reflexive(Step 2)
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Requires: None
With her blade at the ready, none who stand with a Princess of the Earth need to fear for their lives.
During step 2 of any attack, the Dragon-Blooded may activate this charm and defend the target of the attack as if she had declared her last action to be Defend Other. She still must be within a valid range for the action in order for this charm to function.
She may not protect more targets than her Essence through use of this charm until her DV refreshes, though she may activate it multiple times for a single target without issue.
At Essence 4, the Dragon Blooded may purchase this charm a second time and gain the option to extend its duration to one tick when activating it to aid a single target, though doing so raises the cost to 10m.

Occult:

Anima Attunement Method
Cost: 2m Min: Occult 4, Essence 2 Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: One Scene
Requires: Any Occult Excellency
Some say that the greatest power of the Princes of the Earth is their ability to strengthen each other. This charm strengthens that power though the user's knowledge of how Essence flows and interacts.
By touching another Dragon-Blooded, the user attunes their animas to each other, immediately making both active as if they spent 4 peripheral motes. The appearances of each are intertwined, making the bond Obvious to any who can see both.
The pair may now aid each other on any cooperative charm even if the one providing aid does not have knowledge of the charm themselves. In addition, this effect expands the range that they may cooperate on charms that both know to 50 yards.
If both the user and the target of this charm are sworn brothers, then the duration is changed to indefinite. However, their animas cannot fall below 4 mote level while this charm remains active.
A user may have this charm active on no more than Essence targets at once.

 

[Aaron Peori]

Would it be too far to make it so that everyone can use it, but only making ground and demesnes?

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Look, everybody in Exalted can already reclaim Wyld areas and turn them into Creation proper. It doesn't require Charms or sorcery or anything else. It just requires geomancy and people and a lot of time.

The Wyld transitions slowly from the madness of Pure Chaos to the thematically unified if random Deep Wyld to the conceptually weird but recognizably stable Middlemarches (where the majority of raksha live) to the merely impossible Bordermarches to the mostly Creation Tainted Lands. The Wyld is defined by Waypoints, which is a Place In Which Stuff Happens To Be with a 'band' of waypoints making up a Bordermarch, a Middlemarch a Deep Wyld zone and so on.

These zones fluctuate based on the tides of the moon. Generally a handful (1 to 5) waypoints of Middlemarch become Deep Wyld and then retreat in a sort of drunkard's walk pattern and the same happens to all other bands of Wyld, with Bordermarches extending into Tainted Lands. When a particularly aggressive tide occurs such that a section of Deep Wyld moves all the way into a Bordermarch this is called a Wyld Storm and is generally Bad.

The process, however, is not entirely one way. The Wyld laps at Creation's edges and advances but also retreats. And if you use geomantic engineering and tie the land more directly to Creation via stuff like colonists, trade and other interrelated actions with the rest of Creation you can reclaim Tainted Lands and turn them into Vanilla Creation. Pushing back Tainted Lands pushes back the Bordermarches, which can then be reclaimed when it becomes Tainted Lands during ebbs in the Wyld and this in turn pushes back Middlemarches and so on and so forth.

The Solars of the High First Age set up a massive cross-Creation process to make certain this occurred called the Order Conferring Trade Pattern. That pattern fell apart in later ages after one apocalypse or another but its memory is the reason Jade is the defacto currency in The Realm because Jade is inherently tied to the Pole of Earth and the passing of Jade Coins between individuals is the most efficient way of stabilizing regions against Wyld encroachment. That is also the reason that the Guild operates on a Silver Standard because they do heavy trading with the Fair Folk and the Fair Folk don't want Jade coinage being traded because it weakens their ability to act in Creation over time.

The only exception to this is you can't reclaim Pure Chaos. Pure Chaos doesn't experience Wyld tides so you can't push back past that.

You don't need any Charms to engage in this process, just people, resources and lots of hard labor. The ability to fight off Fair Folk raiders and wyld mutants would certainly help, as would the ability to resist the occasional Wyld Storm. The process is a generational thing.

The Dragonblooded are more than capable of directing these efforts and as long lived as they are and with their bloodlines encouraging growth and stable households they are actually extremely well suited to it. It is notable that the Shogunate managed to maintain the extremely extended borders of Creation for the entirety of its existence from the Usurpation to the Great Contagion. Only the deaths of most of their mortals and the Deathlords providing the Balorian Crusade with the secrets to bypassing the geomantic defenses the Dragonblooded had successfully maintained could the Fair Folk invade en masse.

Solars Wyld Shaping technique is not required to reclaim Wyld zones, it just makes it much, much faster and gives you more control over the resulting territory created. Dragonblooded could certainly have Charms which enhanced their geomantic skills and their ability to protect others from Wyld effects to speed up their reclamation efforts though I don't think they need a straight up Charm which pops stable Creation out of nowhere.

 

[Chehrazad]

Solars Wyld Shaping technique is not required to reclaim Wyld zones, it just makes it much, much faster and gives you more control over the resulting territory created. Dragonblooded could certainly have Charms which enhanced their geomantic skills and their ability to protect others from Wyld effects to speed up their reclamation efforts though I don't think they need a straight up Charm which pops stable Creation out of nowhere.

Click to shrink...

*homebrews furiously*

 

[Roadie]

I hate myself, so I started on a rewrite of the Craft Charms.

It's kind of terrifying to realize how much of this is complete gibberish. Like, Chaos-Resistance Preparation and it talking about doing stuff "on the project scale". What the hell does that even mean?? This is a system where making arrows or buttons is a project!

And then there's how Craftsman Needs No Tools talks about how it reduces the time needed to start a project, except the book doesn't actually say in the first place that extra time is needed to start a project...

 

[Accelerator]

On the topic of craftsmen needs no tools, that war charm that creates elemental soldiers....

Can it create complicated stuff, like computers or plasma welders?

 

[Kuciwalker]

And then there's how Craftsman Needs No Tools talks about how it reduces the time needed to start a project, except the book doesn't actually say in the first place that extra time is needed to start a project...

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That's not what it's saying:

"Without the need for tools or a workshop, the, Exalt can start basic and major projects as soon as she has the proper ingredients,"

It's not referring to time but to prerequisites - it's saying you don't need to have tools on hand to start (or work on) a project, you just need to have the ingredients.

 

[Walker of the Yellow Path]

On the topic of craftsmen needs no tools, that war charm that creates elemental soldiers....

Can it create complicated stuff, like computers or plasma welders?

Click to shrink...

That war charm is Phantom-Warrior Horde, and the 'soldiers' it creates are Illusions. They don't do anything besides look scary and march alongside you

 

[Generic_Generica]

stop @Accelerator has been infracted and removed from the thread for a week.

Carry on. But follow the rules.

 

[Chehrazad]

The Shadow Stalker has struck.

On another note, working on Dragon-Blooded Charms is fun.

I completely forgot how delightful it feels, writing stuff you actually like writing.

 

[Giygas]

I'd do that, but mines a pdf

Click to shrink...

Find a way to corrupt the page out of existence, without harming the rest of the book?

Oh hey, it even looks like some nice fellow went and wrote a large post, containing the most prominent Terrestrial themes...

He must be a very thoughtful and knowledgeable person, in fact if I had the opportunity I would totally follow such a person and throw lots of Likes at him.

Click to shrink...

You won't get anything from me!!!

..... Mostly because i already liked your post, and i don't see the point of following peoples.

And oh, hey- another Dogstar Rumination discussion. Luckily i decided to pass it.

Tomorrow i will comment on the things i was suggested for the first age, and actually what i want to make with them. Also, i've decided that Exalted-Zanakard is going to be an unholy mix between normal creation, a shadowland, wyld tainted land, and yozi tanted land. Why? Because i can! Because it was an experiment of some kind about reincarnation and other things.

I may change it, it is indeed probable, but the thrice tainted land is going be used elsewhere. Probably degraded into uselessness by the time of the second age, or even by the time of the first century of the shogunate.

 

[Chehrazad]

Find a way to corrupt the page out of existence, without harming the rest of the book?


You won't get anything from me!!!

..... Mostly because i already liked your post, and i don't see the point of following peoples.

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Following people is great.

It means that I can stalk @MJ12 Commando or @EarthScorpion or one of the other people I have followed and pretend that I'm doing something constructive with my life (also, they get another imaginary internet point because I'm adding to their follower count).

 

[Sanctaphrax]

I hate myself, so I started on a rewrite of the Craft Charms.

It's kind of terrifying to realize how much of this is complete gibberish. Like, Chaos-Resistance Preparation and it talking about doing stuff "on the project scale". What the hell does that even mean?? This is a system where making arrows or buttons is a project!

And then there's how Craftsman Needs No Tools talks about how it reduces the time needed to start a project, except the book doesn't actually say in the first place that extra time is needed to start a project...

Click to shrink...

You'll have an easier time if you tear the system up by the roots. Many of the Charmset's problems are basically inevitable once you accept the basic premises of the system. To write a genuinely good Craft Charmset, you need new assumptions.

When I rewrote Craft, I intended to change less than I did. But this isn't the kind of system that can be fixed by tweaking; once you start changing things, you'll find yourself needing to change more things.

In other words, forget what Chaos-Resistance Preparation says. You'll probably end up rewriting it completely anyway.

It's only mechanically problematic. Getting extra motes from it is very-bad not-good terrible.

More generally, if you're the bloodline, hereditary Exalt, then for fuck's sake have the balls to own that theme. Don't go for limp cop outs. So, yes, Terrestrial Exaltation should be grotesquely unfair, and the phenotypical chance of it expressing itself should be a secondary thing. And yes, the eugenics and stuff that it encourages should be uncomfortable to modern eyes - just like every other special magical aristocracy with a special bloodline power in fantasy fiction. The Dragonblooded are that archetype.

Click to shrink...

I would like Breeding better if it was more "magical aristocracy" and less "master race".

One of the secondary goals of my proposal is to take a less anachronistic approach to grotesquely unfair bloodline powers. Not that I'm against anachronism in general, but I don't think it works here.

Maybe Aragorn had a shoemaker or two in his ancestry, because some of his ancestors married for love. If so, it doesn't dilute the "greatness" of his blood at all. He's still son of Arathorn and heir to Isildur. His heritage is mighty because of who his ancestors were, not because of how carefully they avoided miscegenation.

Funny. Dog breeders would totally and utterly disagree with you. You don't see the dog breeders breeding for a specific trait spreading the genes far and wide - indeed, they go to quite notable lengths to keep the bloodlines pure.

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Given the effects of and motives behind dog breeding, I think you're making Carrnage's point for them. A pug breeder doesn't set out to make dogs in general pug-ier, they set out to make the the puggiest pugs they can. Often with fairly terrible health consequences.

 

[Giygas]

You'll have an easier time if you tear the system up by the roots. Many of the Charmset's problems are basically inevitable once you accept the basic premises of the system. To write a genuinely good Craft Charmset, you need new assumptions.

When I rewrote Craft, I intended to change less than I did. But this isn't the kind of system that can be fixed by tweaking; once you start changing things, you'll find yourself needing to change more things.

Click to shrink...

I may not be a good homebrewer, but i can confirm this.

I only wanted to fix the craft system, not to start rewriting it- and then i definitively not wanted to start and never end rewriting the whole game.

 

[Chehrazad]

I would like Breeding better if it was more "magical aristocracy" and less "master race".

One of the secondary goals of my proposal is to take a less anachronistic approach to grotesquely unfair bloodline powers. Not that I'm against anachronism in general, but I don't think it works here.

Maybe Aragorn had a shoemaker or two in his ancestry, because some of his ancestors married for love. If so, it doesn't dilute the "greatness" of his blood at all. He's still son of Arathorn and heir to Isildur. His heritage is mighty because of who his ancestors were, not because of how carefully they avoided miscegenation.

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This totally works too, though I honestly think I'd prefer to have both presented as options, that one could choose between.

Like: "Perhaps the blood of the Dragons really does gain it's power from virtue and heroic deeds, or maybe all that really matters is the purity and potency. It is up to the storyteller whether either option is true."

I think it very much depends on the flavor of the chronicle. For a "Magical Fallout 1-2"-style chronicle, I'd prefer the former while a "Greek Mythology Dream of The Red Chamber"-chronicle might benefit greater from the latter.

 

[Pale Wolf]

I'm not going to look a 1355-pages long thread through to find the Horatio-Vicky conflicts.

Shit it sounds like a fucking war.

Honestly I'd recommend you to read the thread through one day, you'll find some amusing parts and also WALLS OF ARGUMENTS.

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I mean it's not like it'll be a very hard search.

Thread was 400-some pages when I first started keeping up with it last year.

This was also 'round about the time Vicky came in. Basically, he's half the rest of it.

 

[SerGregness]

Given the effects of and motives behind dog breeding, I think you're making Carrnage's point for them. A pug breeder doesn't set out to make dogs in general pug-ier, they set out to make the the puggiest pugs they can. Often with fairly terrible health consequences.

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Wasn't that his point though? That the Realm is trying to make that dragoniest dragons?

Carnage had mentioned something about trying to breed mortals out of the lineage, but I think that was tangent to ES's comment.

 

[Roadie]

That's not what it's saying:

"Without the need for tools or a workshop, the, Exalt can start basic and major projects as soon as she has the proper ingredients,"

It's not referring to time but to prerequisites - it's saying you don't need to have tools on hand to start (or work on) a project, you just need to have the ingredients.

Click to shrink...

Sorry, I named the wrong one. I actually meant Thousand-Forge Hands - that's the one that talks about reducing time to begin the project, except that there's no listed time to begin a project in the first place.

 

[Aaron Peori]

I would like Breeding better if it was more "magical aristocracy" and less "master race".

Click to shrink...

The point is that the magical aristocracy is a lie and has always been a lie. The Dragonblooded are a takedown of the 'divine right of kings' which always seemed to be the king's son, no matter how terrible or outright genocidal he happened to be.

You remove the 'master race' from the Dragonblooded and you remove, like, the majority of what makes them actually interesting. Every game setting has magical aristrocrats who are superior by right of (insert some justification here) over common man. Exalted does as well, and then subverts it by pointing out that these people are selfish assholes more concerned with blood purity than noble rulership.

 

[The Laurent]

The point is that the magical aristocracy is a lie and has always been a lie. The Dragonblooded are a takedown of the 'divine right of kings' which always seemed to be the king's son, no matter how terrible or outright genocidal he happened to be.

You remove the 'master race' from the Dragonblooded and you remove, like, the majority of what makes them actually interesting. Every game setting has magical aristrocrats who are superior by right of (insert some justification here) over common man. Exalted does as well, and then subverts it by pointing out that these people are selfish assholes more concerned with blood purity than noble rulership.

Click to shrink...

...Citation needed?

 

[azoicennead]

How does the pushback happen? Is there a mechanic reflecting the effects of pushback? Because the only method of actually countering it is the group's loyalty, which as we established is entirely reliant on GM fiat.

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It's less GM fiat than most, because there is a resistance mechanic (which you can at least use as a reference for how a group opposes it). And if "running the system" is "GM fiat", then the term is meaningless.
Seriously.
If you call that GM fiat, then literally everything is fiat.

Also, based on what page 114 says regarding anima flare fading, when the group isn't present for any scenes because the players aren't interacting with it or it's downtime, it should regenerate Loyalty at approximately 1 point per 20 minutes. Otherwise, it should regenerate each day as Willpower does, based on the group's Conviction. Mechanical precedent, yo.

Spreading the idea, sure, but as mentioned before it can totally take the form of a hobo ranting in a street corner and the whole region takes him seriously. The idea being spread could be totally insane as the society considers it, but they'll still embrace it. On what planet is this reasonable?

You're not responding to any of my arguments against the charm, just reiterating the way you think TID works in your own head.

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I'm pointing out that the actual charm disagrees with your interpretation.
Encouraging an attitude in a hobo will only make social groups that hobo is part of viable targets of TID. This is assuming that "convince one person" counts as encouraging the attitude within the target group.
Furthermore, you just removed the hand-waving! Except you seem to have forgotten that this is Exalted, so a mad preacher on a street corner raving away about something whose words are secretly empowered by the essence of an Exalt so they take root in the minds of those who hear him is totally reasonable.

You argued with me that GKS was more broken than TID, why I have no idea, but I still feel compelled to argue this because I think that is wrong. I mean, it's great you are invested in the virtues of 2E social combat, but I don't think you need to defend something so obviously bad because you are categorically incapable of letting anything in 3E's favor, no matter how trivial, slide.

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... No, I didn't.
I disagreed with your statement that 3e lacks things "more handwavey" than TID, and pointed out GKS as an example of how you're wrong.
3e has good parts. Charms not being "handwavey" is not one of them.
Quit trying to divert the argument.

Now, if you'll excuse me, Dr. Hobo said I need to get paper bags to prevent the talking cats from taking my brains.

 

[Chehrazad]

You remove the 'master race' from the Dragonblooded and you remove, like, the majority of what makes them actually interesting. Every game setting has magical aristrocrats who are superior by right of (insert some justification here) over common man. Exalted does as well, and then subverts it by pointing out that these people are selfish assholes more concerned with blood purity than noble rulership.

Click to shrink...

I don't know, you can like Dragon-Blooded for other things than "usurped the Solars and are a master race", I mean I mostly like them for the characters they allow me to make and the character concepts they enable.

...Citation needed?

Click to shrink...

Dude! That's improper, what you meant to say was:

 

[Sanctaphrax]

This totally works too, though I honestly think I'd prefer to have both presented as options, that one could choose between.

Like: "Perhaps the blood of the Dragons really does gain it's power from virtue and heroic deeds, or maybe all that really matters is the purity and potency. It is up to the storyteller whether either option is true."

I think it very much depends on the flavor of the chronicle. For a "Magical Fallout 1-2"-style chronicle, I'd prefer the former while a "Greek Mythology Dream of The Red Chamber"-chronicle might benefit greater from the latter.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that could work.

That being said, I think "virtue and heroic deeds" is more nice-sounding than I'd like. I'm aiming for the morally-neutral style of heroism here, as is usual in Exalted.

My intention is that Terrestrial Genghis Khan is good for the blood no matter how much slaughter he commits. In fact, atrocities can be positive breeding-wise if you overcome heroic odds to commit them.

Wasn't that his point though? That the Realm is trying to make that dragoniest dragons?

Carnage had mentioned something about trying to breed mortals out of the lineage, but I think that was tangent to ES's comment.

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Carrnage said "if you want to preserve a bloodline or specific traits you don't do it by being incredibly careful about who you breed with, you do it by breeding with so many people that those traits become Fixated in the genome and everyone has them."

I was following along that line. Trying to make humanity Terrestrial-er.

The point is that the magical aristocracy is a lie and has always been a lie. The Dragonblooded are a takedown of the 'divine right of kings' which always seemed to be the king's son, no matter how terrible or outright genocidal he happened to be.

You remove the 'master race' from the Dragonblooded and you remove, like, the majority of what makes them actually interesting. Every game setting has magical aristrocrats who are superior by right of (insert some justification here) over common man. Exalted does as well, and then subverts it by pointing out that these people are selfish assholes more concerned with blood purity than noble rulership.

Click to shrink...

Except the justification for aristocracy wasn't racial superiority. It was descent from superior people. It's not like a medieval king thought he was a separate race from his peasants; he just thought that the greatness of his father and grandfather (etc) extended to him as well.

That's basically what I'm going for here. Bearing in mind that greatness isn't goodness, like I said to Manus. Despicable people like the Scarlet Empress can strengthen the blood of the dragons.

Race as a concept got going around the time capitalism ate the old aristocracy. It doesn't really feel appropriate here. At least not to me.

 

[Chehrazad]

Yeah, that could work.

That being said, I think "virtue and heroic deeds" is more nice-sounding than I'd like. I'm aiming for the morally-neutral style of heroism here, as is usual in Exalted.

My intention is that Terrestrial Genghis Khan is good for the blood no matter how much slaughter he commits. In fact, atrocities can be positive breeding-wise if you overcome heroic odds to commit them.

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When I say Virtue, I mean Classical Virtue.

When I say Hero, I mean Classical Heroes.

Heracles was a virtuous hero, who slaughtered his family in anger.