So I'm rewatching Yu Yu Hakusho and I can't help but with that with a few tweaks Toguro would make an absolutely amazing antagonist to take an Exalt from low to mid level.
Anyone have some ideas on how to handle him? The easy answer is just to have him created by a 3CD but I feel like its thematically pretty important that he's made into a demon by human hands. The whole arc of the Dark Tournament revolved around how the Tournamwnt Committee were worse than any demon.
So I'm rewatching Yu Yu Hakusho and I can't help but with that with a few tweaks Toguro would make an absolutely amazing antagonist to take an Exalt from low to mid level.
Anyone have some ideas on how to handle him? The easy answer is just to have him created by a 3CD but I feel like its thematically pretty important that he's made into a demon by human hands. The whole arc of the Dark Tournament revolved around how the Tournamwnt Committee were worse than any demon.
Toguro the Younger works well as a powerful practitioner of Terrestrial Martial Arts who ultimately chose to give up his humanity in exchange for the power and agelessness of an akuma (possibly at the hands of one of the more combat/tutelage-focused Unquestionable, like Suntarankal*), and has since honed himself even further.
Genkai herself makes sense as a supremely powerful Awakened Essence user who also transcended her human status through godhood, but chose to retain a mortal lifespan in exchange for being able to crystallize and perfect the TMA she designed into something that she can directly pass on - after all, Winding Ivy Style establishes precedent for a capstone Martial Arts Charm which allows a master to empower their chosen heir, and her choice to age and die is key to the ideological difference of opinion between the two.
Toguro believed that being a martial artist is about growing stronger, chasing the eternal horizon, and the idea of aging - backsliding, moving farther from that horizon - was utterly irreconcilable with that philosophy. By comparison, Genkai believed that it was better to cultivate one's strength and technique before passing it on to the next generation, who would then do the same in a generational feedback loop of continuously-increasing strength and skill.
That always struck me as the more important theme to the character: his backstory with Genkai is pivotal to the entire arc. Yusuke is a physical representation of Genkai's philosophy of strength through legacy, and his eventual defeat of Toguro (who believed in strength through sacrifice/personal empowerment) is a very blunt metaphor for Toguro's philosophy ultimately losing out to that of his former companion.
* He could also have chosen to seek instruction under Astraea, the Heavenly Inferno, who takes Sutarankal's methodology one step further by trying to break her students psychologically, emotionally, and physically before she (painfully, horrifically literally) rebuilds them into something more than they were. To quote, "Mere warriors are not enough for her, though. She creates monsters, heroes, titans - her students are no longer human by the time she is done with them."
Also, wasn't there an Unquestionable who runs a colosseum where the grand champions can choose between having a behemoth child with her, or becoming a behemoth themselves?
Also, wasn't there an Unquestionable who runs a colosseum where the grand champions can choose between having a behemoth child with her, or becoming a behemoth themselves?
So I'm rewatching Yu Yu Hakusho and I can't help but with that with a few tweaks Toguro would make an absolutely amazing antagonist to take an Exalt from low to mid level.
Anyone have some ideas on how to handle him? The easy answer is just to have him created by a 3CD but I feel like its thematically pretty important that he's made into a demon by human hands. The whole arc of the Dark Tournament revolved around how the Tournamwnt Committee were worse than any demon.
One of my constant irritations with Exalted is that the shape of its metaphysics and politics of its varieties of spirits mean that the setting sucks balls at porting "demons" of the YYH or Inuyasha variety.
That always struck me as the more important theme to the character: his backstory with Genkai is pivotal to the entire arc. Yusuke is a physical representation of Genkai's philosophy of strength through legacy, and his eventual defeat of Toguro (who believed in strength through sacrifice/personal empowerment) is a very blunt metaphor for Toguro's philosophy ultimately losing out to that of his former companion.
Another important part of his backstory that feeds into this idea is that one of the main things that drove Toguro down the path that lead to demonhood was that a demon butchered all of his disciples in order to intimidate him into joining the Dark Tournament, much like what Toguro himself did with Yusuke.
Toguro lost the people who he could pass his legacy onto, which further divides him for Genkai.
Toguro the Younger works well as a powerful practitioner of Terrestrial Martial Arts who ultimately chose to give up his humanity in exchange for the power and agelessness of an akuma (possibly at the hands of one of the more combat/tutelage-focused Unquestionable, like Suntarankal*), and has since honed himself even further.
Genkai herself makes sense as a supremely powerful Awakened Essence user who also transcended her human status through godhood, but chose to retain a mortal lifespan in exchange for being able to crystallize and perfect the TMA she designed into something that she can directly pass on - after all, Winding Ivy Style establishes precedent for a capstone Martial Arts Charm which allows a master to empower their chosen heir, and her choice to age and die is key to the ideological difference of opinion between the two.
Toguro believed that being a martial artist is about growing stronger, chasing the eternal horizon, and the idea of aging - backsliding, moving farther from that horizon - was utterly irreconcilable with that philosophy. By comparison, Genkai believed that it was better to cultivate one's strength and technique before passing it on to the next generation, who would then do the same in a generational feedback loop of continuously-increasing strength and skill.
That always struck me as the more important theme to the character: his backstory with Genkai is pivotal to the entire arc. Yusuke is a physical representation of Genkai's philosophy of strength through legacy, and his eventual defeat of Toguro (who believed in strength through sacrifice/personal empowerment) is a very blunt metaphor for Toguro's philosophy ultimately losing out to that of his former companion.
* He could also have chosen to seek instruction under Astraea, the Heavenly Inferno, who takes Sutarankal's methodology one step further by trying to break her students psychologically, emotionally, and physically before she (painfully, horrifically literally) rebuilds them into something more than they were. To quote, "Mere warriors are not enough for her, though. She creates monsters, heroes, titans - her students are no longer human by the time she is done with them."
Also, wasn't there an Unquestionable who runs a colosseum where the grand champions can choose between having a behemoth child with her, or becoming a behemoth themselves?
Now, the Dark Tournament is decadent bloodsport where a handful of incredibly wealthy, incredibly depraved humans set demons (and their fellow men) against each other in ever-escalating death matches for their amusement. That could actually be ported into Exalted fairly well: just set things in a part of Creation that's being run by a cabal of mortal Sorcerer-kings who decided to make a game of forcing skilled mortal warriors into gladiatorial combat with summoned demons. The winners are promised an audience with one of the Unquestionable horrors they're sourcing the demons from (winner's choice on which one), where they'll be granted a boon for their prowess.
A lie, of course: what influence they've gained with the lords of Hell, they use purely to benefit themselves, and the "victors" who they send into Malfeas go to their doom.
The Younger Toguro was pressganged into competing because the Sorcerer-kings wanted to see the TMA he'd devised in action, resulting in the massacre of his students. He was strong enough to defeat the monsters they put in the ring with him, and learned enough in demonic lore that he had himself sent to an Unquestionable that might actually give him the power to take vengeance (either Sutarankal or the Isidoran Unquestionable that I cannot find, even though I just burned through the entire Compass of Celestial Directions for Malfeas.)
He suffered, and survived, and eventually won his freedom, but by that point he was human no longer, and the hunger for vengeance had passed. Malfeas had made him, and remade him, stronger than he had ever imagined being, and he could feel neither regret nor anger for what had happened to him at the Sorcerer-kings' hands. Even the loss of his students seemed inconsequential in comparison to the new heights of skill he had achieved, and the knowledge that there was still further to go. Perhaps, in his own muted fashion, he considered further developing his martial arts technique to be an act of remembrance for his fallen disciples, reaching forth to seize the pinnacle of power in their stead.
Get a Sorcerer that gradually replaces his flesh on his bones over time, forcing him to consume Malfean hearthstones to cultivate that Essence as his own.
Now, the Dark Tournament is decadent bloodsport where a handful of incredibly wealthy, incredibly depraved humans set demons (and their fellow men) against each other in ever-escalating death matches for their amusement. That could actually be ported into Exalted fairly well: just set things in a part of Creation that's being run by a cabal of mortal Sorcerer-kings who decided to make a game of forcing skilled mortal warriors into gladiatorial combat with summoned demons. The winners are promised an audience with one of the Unquestionable horrors they're sourcing the demons from (winner's choice on which one), where they'll be granted a boon for their prowess.
A lie, of course: what influence they've gained with the lords of Hell, they use purely to benefit themselves, and the "victors" who they send into Malfeas go to their doom.
The Younger Toguro was pressganged into competing because the Sorcerer-kings wanted to see the TMA he'd devised in action, resulting in the massacre of his students. He was strong enough to defeat the monsters they put in the ring with him, and learned enough in demonic lore that he had himself sent to an Unquestionable that might actually give him the power to take vengeance (either Sutarankal or the Isidoran Unquestionable that I cannot find, even though I just burned through the entire Compass of Celestial Directions for Malfeas.)
He suffered, and survived, and eventually won his freedom, but by that point he was human no longer, and the hunger for vengeance had passed. Malfeas had made him, and remade him, stronger than he had ever imagined being, and he could feel neither regret nor anger for what had happened to him at the Sorcerer-kings' hands. Even the loss of his students seemed inconsequential in comparison to the new heights of skill he had achieved, and the knowledge that there was still further to go. Perhaps, in his own muted fashion, he considered further developing his martial arts technique to be an act of remembrance for his fallen disciples, reaching forth to seize the pinnacle of power in their stead.
(either Sutarankal or the Isidoran Unquestionable that I cannot find, even though I just burned through the entire Compass of Celestial Directions for Malfeas.)
The Third Circle demon Kashta, 18th soul of Isidoros, stands out as Hell's greatest patron of gladiatorial games. She can erect a fabulous coliseum anywhere in Malfeas she wants. Local demons find themselves sitting in the stands… or on the field. Kashta divides the demons into teams who battle for her favor. She couples with the last survivor in the middle of the blood-soaked field. Either this act turns the victor into a behemoth, or Kashta bears the victor's behemoth child through her scream of fulfillment. Only when Kashta has created this child of battle-fury does she withdraw her coliseum and release her audience.
A while back I got annoyed by repeatedly having exactly that sort of question about demons and where to find them, so I put together a list for my own use. Might as well share that for the thread's convenience:
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CANON DEMONS, BY YOZI
(with page references mostly from 2nd Edition)
These are Exalted 2nd edition books: 2E Core – The Exalted Second Edition Core Book MoEP Inf. – Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals (likewise, "MoEP [X]" for any other splatbooks) CoCD [X] – Compass of Celestial Directions: [X] CoTD [X] – Compass of Terrestrial Directions: [X] RoGD [#] – The Roll of Glorious Divinity [#] ----- Note: "The Roll of Glorious Divinity" parts 1 and 2 are the same thing as "The Books of Sorcery" Volumes 4 and 5.
"Games of Divinity" is a 1st edition book.
"Ink Monkeys" refers to the collected 2nd Edition content articles put out by the 2E developers online after the end of 2E publication.
Malfeas
----- Ligier, The Green Sun, Fetich Soul (stats: RoGD2 p50)
----- ----- Stanewald, She Who Surmounted The Omphalos, Reflective Soul (stats: CoCD Malfeas p136) ----- ----- [Note: former epithet was The Answer To The Earth]
----- Gnimersalt, The Mouthless Eater Of All, Eleventh Soul (ref: CoCD Malfeas p102)
----- [Unknown Kimbery 3cd], The Tide That Knows No Life, [# not found] Soul ----- [Note: May not exist yet? Weirdness related to Kimbery's Dawn's being a "progenitive" soul.]
----- ----- [Kimbery's Dawn], Dam Of The Eristrufa, Progenitive Soul (stats: CoTD West p147)
----- ----- ----- Eristrufa, The Mist-Demons (stats: CoTD West p132)
----- Bozi-dadari, [no epithet found], [unknown number] Soul ----- [Note: referenced in Ink Monkeys under "On Titanic Souls (II)"]
----- Cipperidge, [no epithet found], [unknown number] Soul ----- [Note: referenced in Ink Monkeys under "On Titanic Souls (II)"]
Hegra
----- Lypothymie, The Mask Of Melancholy, Twelfth Soul (stats: CoCD Malfeas p122)
Isidoros
----- Ferand, The Chariot Of Embers, Seventh Soul (stats: CoCD Malfeas p119)
Anuhles, The Demon Spiders, are made by various 2CDs (stats: RoGD2 p74)
The Things That Dwell in Cornersform directly from the Yozis' essence (ref: RoGD2 p69)
---[3CDs, progenitor not found]---
[unverified Yozi] [Note: but probably TED due to Emerenzia's intimacy for him]
----- Akallu, He Who Deceives, [# not found] Soul (Ref: CoCD Malfeas p125-126)
----- ----- Emerenzia, The Minister Of The Ivory Tassel, Defining Soul (stats: CoCD Malfeas p125)
----- ----- ----- Aalu, The Cannibal Bureaucrats (stats: CoCD Malfeas p138)
---[1CDs, progenitors not found]---
Heranhal, The Fervid Smiths, Progeny of The Blood Of The Forge (stats: CoCD Malfeas p146)
---[Unverified Circle, progenitors not found]---
Istar, the Censor of Forbidden Loves (ref: CoCD Malfeas p126) [Note: probably a 2CD since they're cited as a rival of Emerenzia]
---Primordials That Were---
Adrian, The River Of All Torments
----- Lilike, Fetich Soul of The River Of Torments (ref: MoEP Infernals p147)
Theion, The Empyreal Chaos
----- Ruvelia, 23rd Soul and Second Fetich Soul of the Empyreal Chaos ----- [Note: referenced in Ink Monkeys under "On Titanic Souls (II)"]
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If anyone has any more canon demons I missed (preferably with a page reference), or can verify descent on any of those I couldn't, I'd be happy to add it to the list. Of particular note, I don't have Games of Divinity or really any 1e stuff, so I'd certainly missed some things from there initially and there may be more.
Edits: updated with additional info from folks. Also, added dash indentations because SV ate my original indents. Other minor edits for clarity and usefulness. Added what the book abbreviations are.
Page 23 of Infernals mentions both when discussing which of Malfeas's First Circles he might send out with an Exaltation, but doesn't say anything about which souls they originated from.
Page 23 of Infernals mentions both when discussing which of Malfeas's First Circles he might send out with an Exaltation, but doesn't say anything about which souls they originated from.
I don't think @Aleph, @EarthScorpion, @Shyft, @Jon Chung or myself or anyone in this thread should rewrite Exalted from the ground up. We're all fans with, in many cases, a decade of so of personal grudges, biases and implicit assumptions that we'd bring to the project which would basically make doing it well impossible. Regardless of our intentions or skills we'd just not succeed very well.
Exalted needs a harsh break from Ascended Fanboys and get some professional but unemotionally invested people to step up. Those people can certainly work with fans, but should not be fans.
My own concept would be to have the core book focus on rules relevant to heroic mortals, including enlightened martial artists and god-blooded. Example demons would be teodozjia and sesseljae (rather than neomah and erymanthoi), since the former can be a boss fight with a mortal-exploitable weakness to holy symbols and the latter can be summoned by thaumaturgy as a 'secret forbidden technique' for emergency medical care. Minimal information about the setting's broad geography and history, more of a bottom-up "peasant's-eye view." Make the game as accessible as possible to new players.
Then, expansions get published in waves of four books each: who they are, where they live, how they go above and beyond, and what they're up against. First wave starts with MoEP: Dragon-Blooded, but with the 'setting' and 'martial arts' chapters replaced with expanded rules for mass combat (including some worked examples of creative tactical use of DB charms) and basic jade-steel artifacts. Explain the whole economic and social context of these ridiculous millennia-old surfboard-sized swords, where they're made, how they're sold or leased or stolen, what can and cannot damage or destroy one of them, from the ground up.
Then Compass: Blessed Isle. It's where a plurality of the dragon-blooded live, and they're firmly in charge of it. In addition to the broad sociological stuff, include some sort of worked example of the history of a single dynastic household, births and deaths and heroic accomplishments and scandals and daily routines over decades or centuries.
Then the Immaculate Texts. Orthodox theology, rules relevant to DB initiation into Celestial-tier martial arts (the Glorious Dragon Styles and a reasonable assortment of idolatrous animal-themed styles), rules for designing and building manses and a list of hearthstones - treating underlying demesnes almost entirely as non-negotiable landscape features. You can seek one out, maybe activate dormant potential, but altering their aspects is impossible and forbidden.
Antagonist book for the DB wave is "The Hundred Gods Heresy." All the rules relevant to terrestrial gods and elemental courts, divine racketeering, illicit cults, and relevant thaumaturgy less immediately relevant to typical adventurers, such as weather-working and the blood-soaked raider-blessings of Ahlat or Siakal.
Next wave starts with MoEP: Sidereals, pointing out some gaps and inconsistencies in the history as described in the Immaculate Texts and filling in the details, some of the secret history behind the Great Uprising.
Then Compass: Yu-Shan. Fewer stat blocks for generic high-ranking gods and details of specific top-tier office politics, to make room for the floor plan of a generic palatial office building (the sort of thing that might summoned with Ivory Orchid Pavilion) and proper stats for various extravagant utilitarian artifacts. If somebody pulls off a burglary in Heaven itself, they ought to be gaining more from that than just Resources dots off the sale of assorted useless shiny trinkets.
White Treatise on the theoretical underpinnings of magic as Sidereals (and particularly insightful Dynastic Terrestrials) understand it. Roll-call of Celestial deities, spells of the Terrestrial and Celestial circles, sorcerous projects.
Antagonist book for the Sidereal wave is Scroll of Limbs. All the rules relevant to first and second circle demons outside of Hell: summoning, binding, tracking by omen weather and other fate glitches, the sorts of thaumaturgy that demon-cultists might learn, overall processes of constructing, exploiting, and demolishing / cleansing unholy temples. Cultist's-eye view in general.
Third wave, "who are these so-called Anathema, anyway?" starts with MoEP: Lunars. Per my houserules, Lunars can learn labyrinth circle necromancy, and can be initiated into Sidereal Martial Arts by a Sidereal sifu, same as Solars - but caste-fixing moonsilver tattoos lock out the ability to learn new SMAs. This was a deliberate design decision by certain elders of the Silver Pact, which would have significant political consequences if it became more widely known.
Compass: Wyld includes rules for demesne engineering ("impossible" and "forbidden" seldom deter Lunars; when stacked, that just means somebody's lying) and the same 'thousand-streams river' system where each roll involves a major change over the course of a year or more can also be applied to cultures, using Bureaucracy and Socialize in place of Lore and Occult. Also, general rules for random mutations and anti-wyld thaumaturgy.
Black Treatise on necromantic theory, parallel to the previous wave. Rules for ghosts and necrotech all consolidated into the same book.
Antagonist book for the Lunar wave is Balor's Wake: the Raksha. Maybe salvage some stuff from Graceful Wicked Masques? Less cosmic abstraction, more example characters and scenarios broken down into worked examples of the mechanics.
Fourth wave starts with MoEP: Alchemicals, but push a lot of the setting, martial arts, and equipment off into other books to make room for Collosus and Municipal charms.
Compass: Autocthonia, but include some hard numbers on industrial capacity, costs and complications of large-scale life support machinery, example tactical map or some random tables or something along those lines as support for BLAME!-style industrial gothic megastructure set-piece battles.
Tome of the Great Maker, same thorough treatment of Autocthonian dogma as DBs get for Immaculate scripture. Rules for non-automaton magitech artifice, related thaumaturgy (including Science of Bioenhancement prosthetic limbs and organs), bestiary of exmachinae, and the Mountain Folk.
Antagonist book for the Alchemical wave is Manacle & Coin. Comprehensive Bureaucracy and capitalist-economy rules, a guildsman or glot boss's perspective on the world, advice for how to run games about trade caravans and quests for exotic components.
Fifth starts with MoEP: Liminals. Honestly I've got no idea what's up with them, but I want to find out.
Compass: Faraway is a little bit like Shards of the Exalted Dream. Various apocalyptic scenarios, whole alternate settings sketched out in as little as a two-page spread each, but also smaller stuff like pocket dimensions created by Pressed Beyond The Veil Of Time or islands of stability isolated far off in the Wyld.
Big book of bizarre heretical martial arts, the kind of stuff the Immaculate Order doesn't publicly condemn because they're afraid of people finding out it even exists. Black Claw, Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, elementally neutral or Autocthonian-aspected TMAs.
Antagonist book for the Liminal wave is "Legacy of Heartwind": Automata, Behemoths, Lethe, past-life memories, genesis tech, related thaumaturgy, the Dragon Kings, all the secrets of the nature of living things.
Sixth wave, now that we've finally seen the world inside and out and all of history from the Usurpation to the breaking of the Jade Prison through so many perspectives, flips the increasingly decrepit status quo on it's ear with MoEP: Solars & Abyssals. Take that mirror charm concept and run with it. As much as possible, every two-page spread is white and gold on one half, red and black on the other.
Compass: Underworld, including rules for expanding or diminishing shadowlands through the cumulative effect of mundane effort. Salt and toil, joys or horrors.
Book of Three Circles: adamant sorcery, void necromancy, sidereal martial arts, and what the heck are "shinma aspects" anyway. All the top-shelf magic theory and cosmological secrets. Lot of references back to Compass: Faraway, 'so you've murdered one of the laws of physics, what happens next?'
Antagonist book is rules for Deathlords, Greater Elemental Dragons, the Incarnae, Ishvara, 3CDs, advice for how and when to use them in play.
Seventh wave starts with MoEP: Infernals, minus the parts that we all agree shouldn't have been in there, and pushing the Wonders chapter off into another book to make room for lower-essence charms from Broken-Winged Crane.
Compass: Malfeas, but cut the demon stat blocks (since Scroll of Limbs and the previous wave's antagonist book covers that) to make room for infernal geomancy and helltech.
Broken-Winged Crane covers non-Reclamation yozi charmsets, high-essence General charms, some examples of possible new "non-canon" charms for various yozis and the potential repercussions if they were implemented, and a (representative but far from comprehensive) list of things Orabilis doesn't want you to know, including a 'blooper reel' of previous Yozi escape attempts.
Antagonist book is charmsets for Autocthon and Gaia, as well as a more thorough exploration of the heretical transcendence path, because ultimately GSPs are their own worst enemies.
Not quite sure where to go from there, but, hey, we'd probably either think of something good or run out of money well before reaching that point.
Actually, the names of Directional Titans were all the collective insult Solar Deliberative as a whole (duh, the Titans were so costly it took Wealth 6 to build...) had levelled on the Yozis.
The Metagaos' was already named, and was in the East. Reminder: Scattering Petals of Thousand-Toothed Blossom.
In the West, The Flame That Marched Against The Sea was an obvious insult to Kimbery.
In the South, the citadel whose name I am not sure about was a slightly more obscure insult to Cecelyne. EDIT: Oasis Upon the Edge of Eternity.
And in the North, the citadel whose name I cannot recall was referencing Adorjan/Adrian, IIRC. EDIT: Harmonious Gale.
Not like it was the only time something like that happened either, IIRC at least one of the directional languages contains in its core syntax the prayers referencing a long-dead Solar who took part in crafting said language.
Given that Ex3 is doing away (somewhat) with the more sci-fi-ey aesthetic of the First Age, what kinds of inspiration do people use for the First Age and, more particularly, its artifice?
Lots of weird hybrids between Warframe's more strange-looking Orokin devices, pre-Bronze Age Collapse things because I like cheeky historical references, and using the idea of technology-as-patterns, so you get entire places subtly reshaped, so the birds flying in the sky and the animals moving in the underbrush simply participate in a greater system, and you get 'computers' made out of whole geographies, because I think that sort of stuff is radical as hell.
(Also I don't really have a consistent aesthetic for the First Age, beyond "hubris", since I don't really focus on it much, so it's never occupied much of a space, and it's not sure how much of the First Age was actually a single era at all in my games.)
A while back I got annoyed by repeatedly having exactly that sort of question myself, so I put together a list for my own use. Might as well share that for the thread's convenience:
(Also I don't really have a consistent aesthetic for the First Age, beyond "hubris", since I don't really focus on it much, so it's never occupied much of a space, and it's not sure how much of the First Age was actually a single era at all in my games.)
I think this should actually be focused on a little, there shouldn't really be an single established aesthetic because each member of the Celestial Host would have tried to push their own personal aesthetic.
So it all results in stuff that looks barely related.
technology-as-patterns, so you get entire places subtly reshaped, so the birds flying in the sky and the animals moving in the underbrush simply participate in a greater system, and you get 'computers' made out of whole geographies, because I think that sort of stuff is radical as hell.
I'll likely be doing this if nobody in this thread argues me around. Loyalist Abyssals bore me and redemptionist Abyssals do better as player characters, and nobody wants to play one.
Tbh all I can give is what I like about them, which other people have touched on (and which is kinda just cheating since I lifted what I like from a lot of fan stuff in this thread anyway), but I guess if I had to pick a single thing...I really like the "no, fuck you" nature of Abyssals I guess. To paraphrase @Revlid Solars reach for the gold ring and grab it in a fit of shonen inspiration, Infernals chicken out at the starting line or get flagged for doping and keep rehashing that "what if" in their heads, and Abyssals leap for the ring, miss, come crashing down and break all their bones. Before a shard of Oblivion sidles up and goes "hey, hey that seems pretty fucked up huh?"
They're people who lost, people who lost as hard as you can lose really, they were right at that threshold that you only get to cross once, one-way before they got pulled back. People who died to a plague, who were knifed in the back by people they thought were friends, who were written off as "acceptable collateral", who were the other 9/10ths of people who try the Forbidden Secret Technique and just have their heart explode instead or demons eat their liver or whatever. Honestly a really great way to implement them is as former collateral damage. Their hometown was destroyed in the fighting, looted and pillaged and burned by either side. They starved in the famine caused when grain was redirected to the army and taxes spiked to support the conflict. They were a lowly house soldier who one of the Exalted effortlessly carved through on their way to a dramatic entrance.
That kind of thing y'know? The "their deaths are acceptable losses for what I want" and now they want to have a little chat with you about that.
In terms of how to tie them in, I agree that orienting them around the Deathlords is a pretty good way to go about it. There are bunch of fan ones here, not all of them are tagged unfortunately but just searching Lord of Death/Deathlord could help you find most of 'em.
Even though they verge more on the sci-fi aesthetic that the gameline is apparently leaving behind I do really like the imagery of the Orokin. There's something really kinda (trashily) appealing about having people in what's an otherwise Iron Age fantasy setting explore something that's super futuristic and decayed. Where they're playing Three Blind Men and the Elephant with it all and just getting enough impression of the size and scope to be awed. And enough hints of, like, the deeply fucked up things that happened to be increasingly unsettled. It helps that most First Age stuff has been lost or subsumed into either the Wyld (when the borders of Creation collapsed inward) or in the Underworld or Hell when mass death sent it crashing down or the Yozi dragged it in with them (in some of Escorp's stuff iirc).
Which means that you get shit, like, a Deliberative-era aerial battleship that's "run around" on the shores of stable reality and is now host to a whole weird reef of Wyld things. Or an ancient Solar research installation where creepy black corruption stains the golden designs and white walls and you see Labyrinth echoes acting out scenes from the past.
It also lends itself better, imo, to "we ripped this thing out of the ruins of a Shogunate lab and we think they stole it from an ancient Solar armory and we don't know what it is but we roughly know what it does" which is one of my favorite things about the setting. The layers of history and how it's all post-post-(post?-post??)-apocalypse. And how you can absolutely build plots around trying to find a gaslamp/steampunk-style Shogunate bunker complex in the Far North or shit like that.
Tbh all I can give is what I like about them, which other people have touched on (and which is kinda just cheating since I lifted what I like from a lot of fan stuff in this thread anyway), but I guess if I had to pick a single thing...I really like the "no, fuck you" nature of Abyssals I guess. To paraphrase @Revlid Solars reach for the gold ring and grab it in a fit of shonen inspiration, Infernals chicken out at the starting line or get flagged for doping and keep rehashing that "what if" in their heads, and Abyssals leap for the ring, miss, come crashing down and break all their bones. Before a shard of Oblivion sidles up and goes "hey, hey that seems pretty fucked up huh?"
They're people who lost, people who lost as hard as you can lose really, they were right at that threshold that you only get to cross once, one-way before they got pulled back. People who died to a plague, who were knifed in the back by people they thought were friends, who were written off as "acceptable collateral", who were the other 9/10ths of people who try the Forbidden Secret Technique and just have their heart explode instead or demons eat their liver or whatever. Honestly a really great way to implement them is as former collateral damage. Their hometown was destroyed in the fighting, looted and pillaged and burned by either side. They starved in the famine caused when grain was redirected to the army and taxes spiked to support the conflict. They were a lowly house soldier who one of the Exalted effortlessly carved through on their way to a dramatic entrance.
That kind of thing y'know? The "their deaths are acceptable losses for what I want" and now they want to have a little chat with you about that.
In terms of how to tie them in, I agree that orienting them around the Deathlords is a pretty good way to go about it. There are bunch of fan ones here, not all of them are tagged unfortunately but just searching Lord of Death/Deathlord could help you find most of 'em.
I frankly would like for there to be design space for, say, Daybreak Imhotep, a powerful and knowledgable Sorcerer/Necromancer even when he was a mortal, who rather than being collateral, was deliberately mumified and buried alive along with flesh eating scarabs. Then as his sarcophagus was sealed and there was nothing but his muffled screams and the beetles burrowing into him, a voice in the darkness whispered to him, offering him the power to destroy his enemies and be with his beloved princess once more.
Someone with power, with goals that can be furthered by becoming and Abyssal, rather than some angry/desperate schmuck the Deathlords scraped off the street.
That said, the way Abyssals are being portrayed in 3e so far is giving me hope for more varied and nuanced Abyssal motivations and methodology. Being able to interact with non-dead people without being punished for not acting like murder-machines opens up a lot of character concepts; in addition the Abyssals being less slaves to their Deathlords under the threat of annihilation, and more apprentices to a Sith Lord, means that you don't have to dive head-long into "destroy Creation and drag everything into the void" mess. The Deathlord could make a perfectly innocent or reasonable offer, and then work up to the destruction of all life, cajoling and indoctrinating promising but irritatingly moral Abyssals into the right mindset.
I frankly would like for there to be design space for, say, Daybreak Imhotep, a powerful and knowledgable Sorcerer/Necromancer even when he was a mortal, who rather than being collateral, was deliberately mumified and buried alive along with flesh eating scarabs. Then as his sarcophagus was sealed and there was nothing but his muffled screams and the beetles burrowing into him, a voice in the darkness whispered to him, offering him the power to destroy his enemies and be with his beloved princess once more.
Someone with power, with goals that can be furthered by becoming and Abyssal, rather than some angry/desperate schmuck the Deathlords scraped off the street.
That said, the way Abyssals are being portrayed in 3e so far is giving me hope for more varied and nuanced Abyssal motivations and methodology. Being able to interact with non-dead people without being punished for not acting like murder-machines opens up a lot of character concepts; in addition the Abyssals being less slaves to their Deathlords under the threat of annihilation, and more apprentices to a Sith Lord, means that you don't have to dive head-long into "destroy Creation and drag everything into the void" mess. The Deathlord could make a perfectly innocent or reasonable offer, and then work up to the destruction of all life, cajoling and indoctrinating promising but irritatingly moral Abyssals into the right mindset.
Sounds like Hakushin from Inuyasha. A priest who mummified himself alive but faltered at the last minute. He became terrified but by that point there was no out.
Sounds like Hakushin from Inuyasha. A priest who mummified himself alive but faltered at the last minute. He became terrified but by that point there was no out.
