General Exalted Thread

[Aaron Peori]

. In its place, I'd prefer a model where we take the vaguely-Eastern "family honor/rep" thing and make it have a factual basis, pushing Dynasts to great and terrible acts in their hunger to be more than, to become stronger and stronger until they can look down on their parents and say "Who are you, who dares defy me? I AM THE DRAGON.", and have a leg to stand on by virtue of their blood's potency.

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The point you seem to be missing in my version is that you are not supposed to be justified as an Exalt. Ever. There is no justification. You do not have a leg to stand on. There is no 'virtue' in your blood. Not if you are a Solar, or Lunar or Sidereal or Terrestrial or Abyssal or Infernal or Alchemical.

If you 'have a leg to stand on' other than the raw expression of power you are doing it wrong. The Solars tell themselves they were Chosen by their virtuous deeds but they lie to themselves; the are the winners of a creation-wide lottery and just happened to be the person available who met the criteria at the exact instant the Exaltation was looking for such a person and there could be ten thousand people who are much more 'worthy' than they would ever be. You can Exalt as a Solar for one act of heroic defiance in a life time of craven subservience and the person next to you who spent their entire life fighting power and corruption with heroic resolve will be bypassed. The same is true of Lunars. Sidereals are literally just given power by Destiny with no need to earn it. Abyssals and Infernals are tricked or cajoled in moments of weakness to accepting the propaganda of the defeated sides of the war and Alchemicals are made by massive industrial efforts.

Dragonblooded are no different. You didn't earn your Exaltation and more importantly you can't earn it for your children or their children. You know that part in the Immaculate Texts were it says that virtuous action in this life will earn you a higher level of spiritual attainment in the next life? That's supposed to be lies. But if it is, in fact, entirely possible for your virtuous actions in this life to earn your Children Exaltation in theirs then its not bullshit anymore. It's truth.

And that undermines the entire point of the setting; that nobody is justified in their power.

 

[Chehrazad]

The point you seem to be missing in my version is that you are not supposed to be justified as an Exalt. Ever. There is no justification.

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I agree with you on a few of these points but seriously man, cite your claims.

Because to me, Panther deciding to change his life for the better and receiving the blessing of the sun looks pretty fucking worthy.

EDIT: Sorry @Aaron Peori. Didn't see the "in my version" part. @Rook alerted me to it.

 

[mothematics]

"in my version" seems preeeeeetty self-explanatory?

 

[Imrix]

When you get right down to it, the biggest example of the Dragonblooded in Exalted is the Scarlet Empire, who are the principal antagonist of the setting. "An empire with its boot on the throat of the world," and all. They're the British Empire with a skin of Imperial China and a dash of Rome. They're jerks.

Granted, I tend to think they should be jerks who are kinda-sorta sympathetic, since I find it desirable for the Scarlet Empire to encourage players to examine Imperialism so as to understand its allure, but they are still an antagonist. If you're playing as one of them, I don't think you should get a status quo that you're comfortable with. You might get one where you can turn a blind eye to the bad parts in order to tell different stories (heck, that's how a lot of shitty regimes work) but if you examine how the Scarlet Empire, or for that matter Lookshy, works as the biggest congregation(s) of Dragonblooded in the setting and you find yourself getting a bit uncomfortable, then good, the writers did their jobs.

This is Exalted, y'know? The idea that all men are born equal is a crock of shit that would get you laughed out of the room, because hey, that lady over there is the daughter of a Storm Goddess. She's just as good at you at any particular thing, plus she can shoot lightning out of her eyes. Some people are just better than others in Exalted. That's not a good thing! But it is a thing.

Because to me, Panther deciding to change his life for the better and receiving the blessing of the sun looks pretty fucking worthy.

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Panther is a pretty cool dude, hopefully-dead memes that shall not be named notwithstanding. However, he was Chosen by a god of Virtue and Excellence who spent the last several thousand years holed up in his pleasure dome, ignoring a burning world and abandoning his job as King of Heaven. If he says "you're a great person," then he might be right, but the fact that he said it doesn't really mean anything. I mean, he also chose Havesh the Vanisher

 

[Roadie]

On a first read-through, I think it's a mistake to limit Unstoppable Solar Conqueror to only benefiting you when you have the numbers advantage (as the math given indicates). I know you have it tagged as an intentional change to closer match how it's 'usually' used in play, but I think both halves of the original effect are important.

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But... that's how it works?

When the Exalt's Initiative is higher than the enemy general's, her order actions gain a dice bonus equal to the Size difference between her battle group and the enemy forces.

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Also, this format is pretty unambiguous, but if this is going to be a full project I'd find a way to work in the flavor texts somehow (Italicized text somewhere a-la Magic?), because it does add a lot to grokking the effect in places even if the mechanical rigor is important.

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My stylistic preference here is like Nobilis 2e (the "Great White Book"), if you've ever read that. It has a bunch of micro-stories tucked into the margin meant to give the thematic feel for a lot of stuff without interrupting the flow of the text. For example, here's one next to the Uninspiring flaw in that book:

"Charge," he cried, and spurred his horse forward. Golden armor gleamed reflections of the sunset sky. His sword, raised high, had a razor edge. He was the greatest warrior of his day. He knew this. At any moment, he thought, the army behind him would scream and boil down into the valley after him. His horse took a few more steps.

There was a great silence in the air, and those clickety steps stopped. He realized, with a sick, sinking feeling, that no one was following him. He stood alone, and there was nothing to confuse the archers' aim.

He carefully dismounted, in the silence. He pointed his horse back to where his army waited, and gave it a shove to get it going again. He turned to the enemy, and pulled off his helm.
It was still light enough to see him from the valley below. He raised his middle finger in the universal gesture of contempt. He closed his eyes before the first arrow hit.

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[NonSequtur]

Because to me, Panther deciding to change his life for the better and receiving the blessing of the sun looks pretty fucking worthy.

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Worthy of phenomenal cosmic power though? Even assuming the concept of earning something, that seems pretty disproportionate.

 

[Broken25]

Dragonblooded are no different. You didn't earn your Exaltation and more importantly you can't earn it for your children or their children. You know that part in the Immaculate Texts were it says that virtuous action in this life will earn you a higher level of spiritual attainment in the next life? That's supposed to be lies. But if it is, in fact, entirely possible for your virtuous actions in this life to earn your Children Exaltation in theirs then its not bullshit anymore. It's truth.

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Really?

Honestly, i don't understand why "My ancestor were heroic, therefore i get superpowers" is less injust than "My ancestor all carry the undiluted blood of the dragons, therefore i get superpowers". The recipient child doesn't do anything to deserve the power in any of the two cases.

Lamarkian evolution isn't really fairer than Darwinian, regardless of what Stalin thought about it.

 

[Chehrazad]

Worthy of phenomenal cosmic power though? Even assuming the concept of earning something, that seems pretty disproportionate.

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I wouldn't consider anyone (except for myself of course, what could go wrong?) worthy of phenomenal cosmic power.

That's how we get the Demiurge.

 

[Broken25]

The Solars tell themselves they were Chosen by their virtuous deeds but they lie to themselves; the are the winners of a creation-wide lottery and just happened to be the person available who met the criteria at the exact instant the Exaltation was looking for such a person and there could be ten thousand people who are much more 'worthy' than they would ever be. You can Exalt as a Solar for one act of heroic defiance in a life time of craven subservience and the person next to you who spent their entire life fighting power and corruption with heroic resolve will be bypassed. The same is true of Lunars. Sidereals are literally just given power by Destiny with no need to earn it. Abyssals and Infernals are tricked or cajoled in moments of weakness to accepting the propaganda of the defeated sides of the war and Alchemicals are made by massive industrial efforts.

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Alternatively; Exaltations are metaphors of the different ways someone can achieve greatness and power. Some inherit it. Some are trusted with it. Others grasp it through their own deeds. And yet others are just at the right moment and the right place to change history.

 

[SerGregness]

But... that's how it works?

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Only half of it. I'm pretty sure 'size difference' is intended to work both when you outnumber the enemy, and when the enemy outnumbers you. You get the bonus from outnumbering because you're an Unstoppable Solar Conqueror and the enemy's paltry resistance isn't gonna keep you from sealing the deal. You get the bonus from being outnumbered because you're an Unstoppable Solar Conqueror and a little thing like being outnumbered means less than nothing.

If the rest of the charmtech were written to strict mathematical standards, the way you parsed 'equal to the Size difference between her battle group and the enemy forces' would result in the formula you got, but given the context, I'm fairly confident in saying 'Size difference' is meant in the layman's manner of 'the absolute value of the difference between the two values'.

 

[Dif]

Alchemicals are made by massive industrial efforts.

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Its worth noting that even Alchemicals, the Exalts who already get Exalted based on their histories of meritorious exploits, don't get a clean Exaltation either. They are explicitly conscripted souls denied a chance to live a life freely, built to serve a purpose to state and god and nothing more. They can exercise their broad social freedoms as a Champion to have a semblance of an everyday life, but when the time comes are still bound to their cultural duty and nature as synthetic superheroes from the very first breath they take. If they don't like this fate, which was chosen for them by design, the repercussions are dramatic and swift because the system absolutely cannot abide such a free-agent wielding power outside of the Great Maker's direct interests.

Everyother Exalt at least has a time they were mortal, while it might not have been a happier existence, before destiny was thrust upon them to act on. Alchemicals only get to remember that during hard times to help stabilize themselves, as grafted together from the people they once were long ago. This is the reason why they get saddled with handlers, teachers, advisors and assorted work-crew to help distract them away from the idea they are not a person but a manufactured functionary, a machine built to be fed national pride and faith in Autochthon's wellbeing as paramount, so that industrial miracles for the state benefit will come out the other side.

 

[Aleph]

Because to me, Panther deciding to change his life for the better and receiving the blessing of the sun looks pretty fucking worthy.

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Wrong way round.

Solars don't Exalt because they did something heroic. Solars Exalt and then do something heroic. Their Exaltation doesn't come as a reward for being cool, it comes in their hour of greatest need, and lets them overcome. This is a consistent theme throughout the sig Solars.

The Bull of the North walked out to die in the ice wastes, and because he Exalted, he didn't and returned to unite the icewalkers.
Arianna threw herself at the limits placed on her in her school, and her Exaltation let her show them up by solving the unsolvable.
Dace and his mercenary company were fighting against impossible odds; his Exaltation in battle allowed him to pull through and win.

The Solar Exaltation comes in response to need. Not heroism. Panther changed his life because of the Exaltation, not the other way round.

(This is why the canon Lunar criteria is not a subset of the Solar one themed around "do something cool but linked to surviving somehow". It's actually quantifiably different. I think the closest to "do something heroic and Exalt as a consequence" is actually the DB route; when they awaken their blood in that fashion. And even that's not the rule for all of them.)

 

[Aaron Peori]

Really?

Honestly, i don't understand why "My ancestor were heroic, therefore i get superpowers" is less injust than "My ancestor all carry the undiluted blood of the dragons, therefore i get superpowers". The recipient child doesn't do anything to deserve the power in any of the two cases.

Lamarkian evolution isn't really fairer than Darwinian, regardless of what Stalin thought about it.

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I honestly could not care less about the parents of the Exalt in question, I care about their children. Which, you know, is an insanely important consideration to 99% of everyone in the world.

I mean, let us look at how this shakes out:

Let us assume every Dragonblooded wants to have powerful children to pass their legacy to, because duh. This means every Dragonblooded is encouraged, nay mandated, to go out being a heroic badass. You won't get craven Dragonblooded or lazy Dragonblooded or shifty Dragonblooded. You are going to have Virtuous Dragonblooded because they have Lore and Occult Excellencies and know that Being Awesome means their children are awesome. You're not going to have an Empire of decadent dilettantes willing to sit on their ancestors great deeds and squander the wealth of the world; you're going to get active Brotherhoods chasing glory and virtue all over the world.

Rather than the Empire collapsing inward in the bid for the throne all the great powers will be sending their scions out into the world to hutn down all these anathema because they want to prove they have the best candidates for fostering the next generation of heroes and thus the best shot at the throne.

Further it also destroys the First Age. If Heroic Deeds and not bloodline made more Dragoinblooded... why would the Solars turn from the Dragonblooded and abandon them for the Golden Children like they did? Because your Heroic Solar could fuck all the Terrestrials he wants and produce more powerful Terrestrials because of it. Not less powerful, not weakening the bloodline and thus creating a schism between the two powers in the High First Age. If Solars can seamlessly marry in Dragonblooded Gens and improve the power of the next generation via their heroic deeds why would they not? They get Exalted children and to have dynasties beholden to them at the same time! The entire impetus for the Usurpation itself falls apart.

 

[Broken25]

You won't get craven Dragonblooded or lazy Dragonblooded or shifty Dragonblooded. You are going to have Virtuous Dragonblooded because they have Lore and Occult Excellencies and know that Being Awesome means their children are awesome. You're not going to have an Empire of decadent dilletantes willing to sit on their ancestors great deeds and squander the wealth of the world; you're going to get active Brotherhoods chasing glory and virtue all over the world.

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This is quite a stretch.

Because your Heroic Solar could fuck all the Terrestrials he wants and produce more powerful Terrestrials because of it.

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Sure, that's problematic, but honestly, you just hav to make a exception for Celestials here. After all, GoD specifically says than the terrible heroism of Solars and Lunars is too potent to be transmited by blood.

 

[Roadie]

Only half of it. I'm pretty sure 'size difference' is intended to work both when you outnumber the enemy, and when the enemy outnumbers you. You get the bonus from outnumbering because you're an Unstoppable Solar Conqueror and the enemy's paltry resistance isn't gonna keep you from sealing the deal. You get the bonus from being outnumbered because you're an Unstoppable Solar Conqueror and a little thing like being outnumbered means less than nothing.

If the rest of the charmtech were written to strict mathematical standards, the way you parsed 'equal to the Size difference between her battle group and the enemy forces' would result in the formula you got, but given the context, I'm fairly confident in saying 'Size difference' is meant in the layman's manner of 'the absolute value of the difference between the two values'.

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You've persuaded me to change it.

I hate the way they wrote all this stuff.

 

[Irked]

This is Exalted, y'know? The idea that all men are born equal is a crock of shit that would get you laughed out of the room, because hey, that lady over there is the daughter of a Storm Goddess. She's just as good at you at any particular thing, plus she can shoot lightning out of her eyes. Some people are just better than others in Exalted. That's not a good thing! But it is a thing.

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A bit of a nitpick, maybe, but I'm not sure the notion that all men were created with equal abilities has ever had much traction, the writers of (say) the Declaration of Independence included. That clause justifies the equal application of rights that come afterward; in other words, it's a claim that all men are of equal value, whatever their rank and station and ability, and that none has a greater inherent moral claim to life, liberty, or happiness than another.

And whether or not that's a true claim, it's not inherently falsified by the existence of people who can shoot lightning or level mountains.

 

[GardenerBriareus]

If you 'have a leg to stand on' other than the raw expression of power you are doing it wrong.

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I don't want to make this a fight, but that's exactly what I meant. As in, Junior has the ability to openly defy his parents because all that heroic mass murder and assorted "glorious deeds" have beefed him to the point where if they dare object, Junior can and will smash all their organs into paste.

Like, I've written up two Solars for a quest. One of them is a mixture between Walter White and a SWLIHN cultist, and the other is literally Shou Tucker. "Greatness does not mean goodness" is kind of a major feature of how I approach Exalts.

Let us assume every Dragonblooded wants to have powerful children to pass their legacy to, because duh. This means every Dragonblooded is encouraged, nay mandated, to go out being a heroic badass.

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Unless you define "heroic" to be broader than "PUNCH FACES ERRYDAY", which in retrospect I failed to make clear. Apologies. However...

You won't get craven Dragonblooded...

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Unless they learn to be silver-tongued politicians who adroitly bend the truth to make their cowardice seem like wisdom, or embed themselves in the Realm's bureaucratic structure and set about trying to make a mark on the world by revamping tax collection methods*, or become master artisans or craftsmen or architects or courtiers or fashionistas or...

or shifty Dragonblooded

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Again, Dragonblooded politicians. However, may I also point out that a spymaster or assassin or thief could totally get away with being shifty?

or lazy Dragonblooded

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This one's a bit trickier. However, you have to realize that a dynasty needs to have, well, a secure heir. If the first son dies while out trying to boost his Breeding, then the family needs to have somebody set up to take his place or else deal with a potential internal war of succession. Likewise, a Dragonblood who already gets high Breeding from birth has much less incentive to exert himself, and may well have parents who decide it's better to have a homebody in the line to act as a broodmare/breeding stud. Alternatively, you can have Dynasts who only pay lip service to the whole "heroic" thing and just try to stay out of sight and pursue their own pleasure, hoping their siblings' deeds will provide a nice big shadow to hide in.

You're not going to have an Empire of decadent dilletantes willing to sit on their ancestors great deeds and squander the wealth of the world; you're going to get active Brotherhoods chasing glory and virtue all over the world.

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...

And that's bad? Seriously, does Exalted rely on stories of hedonistic Terrestrial hikkikomori, or something? How does a more active Realm damage the gameline?

Also, if it's that big a problem for you, then how about arguing that letting large numbers of young Dynasts spread too far afield could ultimately weaken the Realm, as unsupervised youngsters did stupid things & some Dynasts chose to try and sever ties in favor of trying to establish their own dominions out in the boonies. Eventually, the Empress moved to rein in such unrestrained expansion a few centuries back, and now that she's gone you have the Realm internally bubbling with Young Turks who want to either prove their homeland's still got teeth or sod all this for a game of soldiers, while their elders bicker over how to proceed now that a major component of their nation has vanished.

Rather than the Empire collapsing inward in the bid for the throne all the great powers will be sending their scions out into the world to hutn down all these anathema because they want to prove they have the best candidates for fostering the next generation of heroes and thus the best shot at the throne.

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Again, how is this different from the Wyld Hunt as-is?

Further it also destroys the First Age. *etc.*

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First off, I neither know nor care about these "Golden Children": all the First Age needs to be is an era of unprecedented infrastructure and technological achievement, backed by a well-managed Celestial Bureaucracy and the oversight of the Deliberative. Then it goes rotten because Great Curse, Exalts are still human, Great =/= Good, etc, and eventually the Sidereals commit the Second Usurpation and the Shogunate begins.

Why did the Terrestrials turn on their masters? Envy, greed, anger over mistreatment, disagreements over how things should be run, powerful personalities clashing. As for the idea of Solars wanting children with power akin to theirs, well Terrestrials are inferior, are they not? "What foolishness, to claim that Gaea's impure spawn can match the glory of the Sun's Chosen!"

you just have to make a exception for Celestials here. After all, GoD specifically says that the terrible heroism of Solars and Lunars is too potent to be transmited by blood.

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Also, this.




* Not necessarily to make it better, mind, just so that when it's been changed they emerge as the primary force behind that change.

 

[Chehrazad]

I don't want to make this a fight, but that's exactly what I meant. As in, Junior has the ability to openly defy his parents because all that heroic mass murder and assorted "glorious deeds" have beefed him to the point where if they dare object, Junior can and will smash all their organs into paste.

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And that's bad.

If higher Breeding has such a huge impact, it's stupid and redundant and should be thrown out and burnt with no regrets.

Meanwhile, if you meant due to the Experience difference, it doesn't really change anything. My Breeding 1 Outcaste, Chiming Minaret almost murdered the Breeding 4 satrap of her city without even trying because she was a Water Aspected murdermachine and he was an Air Aspected lawmaker with a few fighting Charms.

And that's bad? Seriously, does Exalted rely on stories of hedonistic Terrestrial hikkikomori, or something? How does a more active Realm damage the gameline?

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Given that it's kind of their narrative purpose to be the hedonistic lords and ladies of the Realm, raised with a silverJade spoon in mouth, it might be just slightly important.

A more active Realm means more Wyld Hunts and less internal conflicting, means more Solar murder, means more secure satrapies, means more hard mode for players.

Which can also be fun, but isn't really the intention.

 

[Aaron Peori]

I don't want to make this a fight, but that's exactly what I meant. As in, Junior has the ability to openly defy his parents because all that heroic mass murder and assorted "glorious deeds" have beefed him to the point where if they dare object, Junior can and will smash all their organs into paste.

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Ah yes, because every Dragonblooded politicians is going to heavily invest in combat Charms while their son is out in the threshold leading legions and develops nothing but Bureaucracy Charms.

No, wait, the exact opposite. If you want "The son could pulp the organs of his parents because he is a better fighter" than increasing blood potency based on virtuous deeds is utterly tangential to your stated goal. It's also not like this wasn't a problem every noble class ever had to deal with.

The difference of a handful of motes of Essence is not going to be a significant factor between someone who has a dozen combat Charms and someone who has Elemental Bolt Technique and a Lore Excellency.

Unless they learn to be silver-tongued politicians who adroitly bend the truth to make their cowardice seem like wisdom, or embed themselves in the Realm's bureaucratic structure and set about trying to make a mark on the world by revamping tax collection methods*, or become master artisans or craftsmen or architects or courtiers or fashionistas or...

Again, Dragonblooded politicians. However, may I also point out that a spymaster or assassin or thief could totally get away with being shifty?

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Neither of these examples are Virtuous based on Exalted's definition of Virtue. They both are suppressing Compassion, Temperance and Conviction (and have no benefit from Valor) at all time. Unless you propose not only changing how Exalted handles Breeding but also handles Virtue as well, in which case now you are proposing not only a massive rewrite of the Realm but also the entire setting to date.

This one's a bit trickier. However, you have to realize that a dynasty needs to have, well, a secure heir.

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Yes, this is why the Realm keeps its high Breeding sons and daughter on the Blessed Isle or surrounded at all times by a Brotherhood of trained killers in a nice cushy Imperial Legion commanders tent rather than slogging through the mud with a single Immaculate and a handful of mortal bounty hunters as part of the Wyld Hunt chasing rumors of Anathema in the far East. High Breeding dynasts are not sent to remote governors positions in some satrapy and are instead worked into the Great Houses internal power structure and kept safe as much as possible.

The entire structure of the Realm as it exists, how it concentrates all the power at the center and sends its less valuable members out to deal with the wider world, is predicated on the way Breeding operates. It also explains why Lookshy is a fading power, because it needs to constantly put its Dragonblooded in positions where they can (and do) die and the attrition of bloodlines means they are slowly loosing blood purity and can not maintain their commitments and also their power at the same time.

And that's bad? Seriously, does Exalted rely on stories of hedonistic Terrestrial hikkikomori, or something? How does a more active Realm damage the gameline?

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Because the game is meant primarily to be played by Solars and having dozens of powerful Dragonblooded Brotherhoods within a few days ride of you at any time makes their survival chances go down. The Solar players get a lot of breathing room because the Realm (and Lookshy) are more interested in keeping their people safe and internal conflicts rather than in hunting glory and honor abroad.

If you have a diaspora of young Dragonblooded flooding the Threshold that means your chances of encountering them goes way up which means either a: you have to power down Dragonblooded considerably to mook tier combatants or b: your have to accept a much higher level of Solar PC attrition than the gameline currently does.

You can't have Dragonblooded out seeking honor and glory in the wide world and give Celestial Exalts freedom to act without interference until they are too big to ignore. They are not compatible setting elements.

First off, I neither know nor care about these "Golden Children": all the First Age needs to be is an era of unprecedented infrastructure and technological achievement, backed by a well-managed Celestial Bureaucracy and the oversight of the Deliberative. Then it goes rotten because Great Curse, Exalts are still human, Great =/= Good, etc, and eventually the Sidereals commit the Second Usurpation and the Shogunate begins.

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The Usurpation needs to have understandable reasons that make sense. We can't just handwave it with "Great Curse". If we do, we destroy what makes it interesting, in that it was a preventable tragedy. If we remove both the Sidereals' and the Dragonbloodeds' principle reason for actually overthrowing the Solars then the Usurpartion is just... a magical catastrophe that is no one's fault and was inevitable. That's not interesting, it is the opposite of interesting.

We need a First Age where the Solars did not want to create stable empires that survived past their deaths and one where the Dragonblooded were increasingly marginalized.

And no we can not just "make exceptions for Celestials" because then you're just making constant exceptions to prop up an idea who introduction would fundamentally change the entire setting from beginning to end and papering over it with increasingly flimsy and poorly justified exceptions. Changing how Breeding works means the entire Usurpation, Shogunate and Realm would be fundamentally different than what is presented. You can ignore that, if you want. It's your game. Do whatever. But don't pretend that it makes sense in the same way the current setting does.

 

[fitzgerald]

Should it be set in the Shogunate to have a modernish feel?

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Honestly I'd suggest running it in a Shard for a more modern feel

Unless you want to go for a Magical Realm in Elsewhere is desperately seeking heroes ala Mage Knight Rayearth



Oh man I'm now picturing the Scarlet Empress calling on heroes from Earth to come save the Realm as she prays desperately to keep Creation safe

 

[drakensis]

I cannot get the idea of an Exalted magical girl style game out of my head. Why.

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Between the years of First Edition and Second Edition, there was another addition. The Kawaii Edition.

"Jonni," the Regent of the Scarlet Empire, Tepes Kanako, said. "You're staring at the throne like you want to hump it again." She focused her strong gaze on Jonni Memnonic, pink clad sorceress, head of the Memnonic gang and daughter of the missing Scarlet Empress. "You really need to see about having this fetish treated."
"I do not have a fetish for desiring illicit relations with furniture!" Jonni protested angrily. "Why have you summoned me?" She was not used to getting summoned in the middle of the night, even by her mother the Neo-Empress. And now this fifth generation descendent of that lunatic Tepes was trying to push HER, the daughter of the Neo-Empress, around? What was this land coming to? "And when is my tributary, the Shrine of San Andrea, going to get any help dealing with the raids by the Boo of the North's Abominable Snowmen?"
"There is no Boo of the North. He's just a myth," Tepes Kanako said firmly. You had to be firm with Jonni, who couldn't even remember to put her gang's name in front of her own. Such folk were like children, and you had to speak slowly and firmly with them.
"He destroyed two of your legions!" Jonni said in stunned belief.
"Two of great-great-grandmother's legions," Tepes Kanako said. "Legions stolen from the rightful authority of the Imperial Throne. What do you think your MOTHER will think of that on her return?"
She's not coming back, Jonni thought. The Ebony and Ivory Living in Harmony Dragon has her, I'm sure of it. The only way she's returning is as the avatar of ancient, powerful evil. Which, admittedly, might be hard to tell from how she normally is. "The treasury was empty," she said blandly. "It was necessary that the houses sponsor them. So why did you summon me?"
"Tell me about your tryst with Ragnarok Morgana," Tepes Kanako said.
"You called me out of bed in my pajamas to ask me about SOMETHING THAT NEVER HAPPENED?" Jonni demanded. It would be so easy to tar and feather this idiot and dump her in the ocean, Jonni thought. Just as a start.
"The fact that you hate each other so much proves you must secretly love each other just as fiercely," Tepes Kanako said. "Ergo, you must have succumbed to lust at least once in the last three hundred years."
If she stayed any longer with this idiot, it would be killing time, and that would ignite the war far too early. "Oh dear, Regent, I'm afraid I hear the Mouse of Peace summoning me. I'm sorry, but it's urgent. Perhaps we can discuss this in a few centuries. Farewell!" She made a quick handgesture, and stepped into the Warp Gate. It dumped her in her quarters before the Regent could protest.
Frustrated, Jonni grabbed her teddy bear and sat down on her bed. Stupid Regent, she thought. Why couldn't she have died with those legions? What a waste.
"Only you understand me, Sebastian," she said to it, hugging him tightly. "It's a good thing you can't talk. But I need someone to talk to."
She spent some time complaining to her bear, then finally laid down once the bile was out of her system.
She was asleep by the time her head hit the pillow. So she couldn't see as the stuffed bear moved up to position himself by the side of her head and began to whisper quietly into her ear...

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[TenfoldShields]

quests: "daddy what does 'neglect' mean?"
tenfold: "see, if I sent you to school you'd know these things"

Ostreidi, the Bivalvic Churn
Demon of the Second Circle
Indulgent Soul of the Archoness of the Cascade

The Archoness of the Cascade is many things but even her harshest critics admit that she has a definite sense of style. Within Malfeas, land of deprivation and depredation, her court is a shining beacon of wealth. Of taste. A haven where things like fashion and well-considered decor still matter. Appearances are naturally important to creatures such as her and she prizes hers highly. Thus it should be no surprise that Ostreidi was exiled a few scant months after the Surrender. Cast out into the green seas of Mother Kimbery to wander far, far away from Mazcyllic's floating palace. Muddy Ostreidi, her flesh the ugly, slick skein of a floodplain. Filthy Ostreidi, her spine lined with gasping, fluttering mussels; her shoulders mantled in clicking clams. Four-faced Ostreidi, her head hidden behind a cage of black coral masks. One flirting. One laughing. One sobbing. One roaring.

Ostreidi didn't mind in the slightest. She captured the cruel words her greater self flung in her faces and pressed them deep into her being for it is in her nature to be a collector. And her hoard is one of hurts, great and small. Insults, petty and dire. Her muddy flesh is laced with scorn, with antipathy, and bitter recriminations. She writes them into her malleable skin so that she may run her clumsy fingers over the letters and feel them again and again. Her cockles murmur her favorites to her on demand, rehashing old arguments; keeping fading wounds fresh. Sometimes when the mood takes her she will anchor herself to a temporary convergence of leylines within Malfeas. Fusing herself to the ground like a limpet to suck all the Essence she can. The bivalves on her back roused to clamoring, churning the water into a silty stir that echoes with ancient fueds.

When she has drank all she can she cracks her shell and rips her seafloor-skin. A dark thing, flanks fluttering with coiled gills and muscled lungs, slips free and swims away. The wreckage of her form left behind to grow. A garden of obscenities that anyone may visit and behold and, indeed, the shallower parts of Kimbery are dotted with such ugly reefs. Some grown to an unnatural vastness. Over the course of several weeks she will build a new shell and begin again. Returning to her old gardens when she wishes to hear the things afresh for absence does indeed make the heart grow fonder.

Though she is banished from court Ostreidi is still a Citizen of Hell and wields not-inconsiderable power. Often she slips back into the fleet of the Archoness. Walking the pristine decks with muddy feet. On her chest, her true chest, burns the acid brand of her greater self and it is the sweets spoil of all. Though she hopes to complete the set Mazscyllic does not have it within herself to mar her Indulgent Soul further. But such denial only encourages the Bivalvic Churn.

Sorcerers commonly summon Ostreidi for her knowledge of oceanic geomancy (while she is not an architect per se she has a fine eye for nuance and detail in Essence flows) or for her provocative nature. Muddy Ostreidi is adept at calling out the bilious anger of others, daring them to unleash their ill tempered words upon her and many great men and women have spilled secrets in the throes of rage. Alternatively, summoners seek to sample the rumors and moods from Hell and Ostreidi's skin is an excellent (if expletive laden) source. While she cannot be commanded to shed her skin in Creation one of her Colonies would indeed be a trove of secrets.

The Bivalvic Churn flourishes on cruelty and cannot abide kindness. She gains one point of Limit for each genuinely sympathetic, heartfelt utterance she hears directed her way. She escapes from Hell when a friendship is shattered by malicious words aboard a sailing vessel on the night of the full moon. She clings unseen to the hull to drink in the misery, her fauna infesting the ship to spill forth other secrets of other passengers. Whipping them into a frenzy of self loathing.



Teng-Kigyo, the Duke of Eels
Demon of the Second Circle
Indulgent Soul of the Black Sargassum Sea

He appears as a young man clad in little but a waistwrap of black seaweed. His skin glossy and translucent, showing the corded muscle beneath. The dark viscera wetly pumping and contracting. Jade bones glistening with an opalescent luster, an oily, swirling, hue. His head is a thinly sheathed serpent's skull, each and every tooth, every sinew on display. From the base of his spine sprouts a bouquet of seven squirming eels, their skin as sheer as his; their muscle visibly rippling and twitching as they move. For this is he sometimes known as the Sevenfold Serpent. Like all of Kimbery's creatures he has an affinity for the tainted and toxic and, indeed, his skin is slick and slimy with caustic poisons. Potent enough to wound even an unwary Second Circle. He is fearsome. And yet he is fearful.

It's not hard to understand why. The reasons are worn into his wrists and etched into his ankles, curled about his stomach and flashed across his back. The cost of his escape from Sin Hinar's stomach-prison, the tax of his imprisonment. The open waters of Kimbery still terrify him for there he knows lurks his greater self, still hungering for his lost souls. And as intimidating as he seems his skin is fragile and frail. Teng-Kigyo is no warlord. He is not a warrior by nature nor disposition. He is neither a scholar nor an academic nor a well learned-priest. Within him is an oddity: compassion. A nervous, narcissistic, self-conscious empathy for others that drives all he does. For there is no better feeling in all of Malfeas, all of Creation or Heaven itself, than the heartfelt appreciation of another.

The Duke of Eels craves attention and affection and values his worth based upon the opinions of others. Greedily drawing gratification from their approval and falling into bleak despair when exposed to their criticism. It is for this honor of honors that he, neither tactician nor strategist, has haltingly carved out a rather significant empire in one of Kimbery's deltas. Wresting control from local lords and beating back competitor souls. It is for this kindest of luxuries that he, neither bold adventurer nor steadfast pilgrim, has plunged increasingly deep into the waters of Mother Kimbery; dowsing for treasures with his black, coiling spear. Retrieving them so that he might protect his people and find praise among his fellows. And it is for this greatest of treasures that he, neither aristocrat nor infernal king, has created a nation. A dominion of lonely monsters and forlorn beasts that sprawls out across the skyscraper-archipelagos of Malfeas, a significant sliver of a single shell that runs from the frothing cataracts of Elloge to the shores of the Silver Forest and all throughout the acid delta between. Populated in large part by his own creations and caretakers.

In his heart of hearts, more than anything Teng-Kigyo wishes to be a genuine hero. Someone truly worthy of adoration. Someone who can rise above their scars and hurt and find strength within. Someone with a value, a definition, beyond the omnipresent hunger of Sin Hinar. He tenderly tortures himself with the thought and resolves to do better. To be better. Yet he ever finds himself unable to shake his more selfish, base, motivations and fears that they taint even his best intentions.

Sorcerers summon Teng-Kigyo to derive potent tinctures from his toxic skin, for his skill and knowledge in demon-design, or to uncover hidden treasures and forgotten ruins. He knows where many lost things are located within the depths of Creation's oceans (and if he himself does not know he may douse for them with his spear) and will eagerly uncover them for the sake of a few scraps of praise. Magicians who are willing to invest an measure of extra effort may easily win his friendship by providing him precious gifts and more generous helpings of gratitude, negating the need for a binding entirely. But such summoners must be careful lest he suspect them of feigning and fall into a bleak, useless stupor. He gains Limit when openly rejected and denounced by others.

Summoning him brings forth his mount as well, a monstrous eel-beast with translucent skin and twenty one heads. He may escape to Creation when an infant is set adrift at sea on the night of the new moon. If no other gods, elementals, passing ships, or ocean predators claim it he may emerge from Malfeas to carry it below before dawn. Such children are turned into demons to survive Malfeas and typically join the ranks of the infernal Knights that protect Teng-Kigyo's lands.

 

[Sanctaphrax]

The point you seem to be missing in my version is that you are not supposed to be justified as an Exalt. Ever. There is no justification. You do not have a leg to stand on. There is no 'virtue' in your blood. Not if you are a Solar, or Lunar or Sidereal or Terrestrial or Abyssal or Infernal or Alchemical.

If you 'have a leg to stand on' other than the raw expression of power you are doing it wrong.

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If you read again, I'm sure you'll see that the leg to stand on this example consists of raw power.

Dragonblooded are no different. You didn't earn your Exaltation and more importantly you can't earn it for your children or their children. You know that part in the Immaculate Texts were it says that virtuous action in this life will earn you a higher level of spiritual attainment in the next life? That's supposed to be lies. But if it is, in fact, entirely possible for your virtuous actions in this life to earn your Children Exaltation in theirs then its not bullshit anymore. It's truth.

And that undermines the entire point of the setting; that nobody is justified in their power.

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DBs in this model "earn" Exaltation for their children more or less the same way Solars "earn" it for themselves. (Aleph's greatest need model is reasonable, but it's more fanon than canon. The "impress the sun" model works as well or better for most Solars. Particularly in 3e, I think.)

I honestly could not care less about the parents of the Exalt in question, I care about their children. Which, you know, is an insanely important consideration to 99% of everyone in the world.

I mean, let us look at how this shakes out:

Let us assume every Dragonblooded wants to have powerful children to pass their legacy to, because duh. This means every Dragonblooded is encouraged, nay mandated, to go out being a heroic badass. You won't get craven Dragonblooded or lazy Dragonblooded or shifty Dragonblooded.

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Sure you will. DBs in canon breed with mortals often enough. People aren't bloodline-strength-maximizing robots.

Rather than the Empire collapsing inward in the bid for the throne all the great powers will be sending their scions out into the world to hutn down all these anathema because they want to prove they have the best candidates for fostering the next generation of heroes and thus the best shot at the throne.

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Nah, taking the throne shows far more virtue than merely hunting Anathema.

Further it also destroys the First Age. If Heroic Deeds and not bloodline made more Dragoinblooded... why would the Solars turn from the Dragonblooded and abandon them for the Golden Children like they did? Because your Heroic Solar could fuck all the Terrestrials he wants and produce more powerful Terrestrials because of it.

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Nope. I think I was pretty clear in the post that started this that a non-Terrestrial's heroism isn't really going to improve the blood of the dragons. Although a non-Terrestrial's non-heroism can weaken it.

Also, I think you have the causality backwards there. Solars made kids for the normal reasons, not out of some kind of breeding program. The nepotism came out of the normal motivations for nepotism, not anything clever.

Also also, the whole Golden Children thing is not particularly good and I'd be happy to jettison it. Half castes are kinda eh, and it's not like we need a special magical reason for the kings to alienate and marginalize the barons.

 

[Chehrazad]

To be honest, I always found the idea that the Golden Children could come close to replacing Dragon-Blooded as ridiculous.

Especially when a Dragon-Blood can effortlessly smack them around with contemptous ease.

(Or should, but can't because hahahaha they learn Solar Charms hahahaha)

 

[Cosar]

To be honest, I always found the idea that the Golden Children could come close to replacing Dragon-Blooded as ridiculous.

Especially when a Dragon-Blood can effortlessly smack them around with contemptous ease.

(Or should, but can't because hahahaha they learn Solar Charms hahahaha)

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Killing your boss generally isn't seen as a good thing, especially when that boss is the son of the overall boss. It doesn't matter that they're not competent, but that they're trusted more than you.