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General Exalted Thread

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Sanctaphrax said:
DBs in this model "earn" Exaltation for their children more or less the same way Solars "earn" it for themselves.
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Except that Solars never have a guarantee of Exaltation while your method of determining Dragonblooded Exalt is mmmuch more reliable.

Sure you will. DBs in canon breed with mortals often enough. People aren't bloodline-strength-maximizing robots.
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The Realm kind of is a bloodline-strength-maximizing engine, though? That's kind of what I've been arguing its whole purpose is? That Dragonblooded who breed with mortals are specifically seen as failures? That this is why Outcastes are sent to Pasiap's Stair which is the secondary school with an actual fatality rate and/or the Cloister and then sent out into the world to serve as disposable shock troops specifically because the Great Houses don't want to sully their bloodlines?



Nah, taking the throne shows far more virtue than merely hunting Anathema.
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Which one? Compassion, Conviction, Temperance or Valor?


Nope. I think I was pretty clear in the post that started this that a non-Terrestrial's heroism isn't really going to improve the blood of the dragons. Although a non-Terrestrial's non-heroism can weaken it.
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Man, you know what i wish we had in the setting?

Some sort of thing where we have a class of being that can inherit the power of their parents and that power is directly related to how powerful the parents were and can be improved with adventuring and can be passed on in turn.

No, wait. We already have Godblooded, whose Inheritance trait is explicitly half the combined Essence of the parents. Silly me.


ManusDomine said:
To be honest, I always found the idea that the Golden Children could come close to replacing Dragon-Blooded as ridiculous.

Especially when a Dragon-Blood can effortlessly smack them around with contemptous ease.
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You don't have to have Golden Children be godblooded for them to be favored over Dragonblooded. Recall that Dragonblooded are powerful as a group and are the most efficient way of producing Exalt-tier opponents at very little cost. I imagine that the Golden Children were subject to high level Training Charms, permanent Sorcery, Wyld Mutation, augmentation via implanted artifacts and a variety of treatments that made them more skin to one-off Behemoths that existed around Second Circle Demon level of capability rather than Dragonblooded levels. The cost would have been insane, but what did the Solars care?
 
Aaron Peori said:
Except that Solars never have a guarantee of Exaltation while your method of determining Dragonblooded Exalt is mmmuch more reliable.
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Sure. But who cares?

No matter how reliable the method, it doesn't show moral worth or anything like that.

Worth mentioning, by the way, that my proposed approach isn't any more reliable than Breeding is now.

Aaron Peori said:
The Realm kind of is a bloodline-strength-maximizing engine, though? That's kind of what I've been arguing its whole purpose is? That Dragonblooded who breed with mortals are specifically seen as failures? That this is why Outcastes are sent to Pasiap's Stair which is the secondary school with an actual fatality rate and/or the Cloister and then sent out into the world to serve as disposable shock troops specifically because the Great Houses don't want to sully their bloodlines?
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Yep.

Under my proposed model, the Terrestrials who are known to be lazy, greedy, and generally unimpressive will be seen as failures. Young Terrestrials will be encouraged to accomplish great things.

Already the case, I'm sure, but the change would make it more intense. There would still be laziness and greed and so on, but it'd be extra shameful.

Aaron Peori said:
Which one? Compassion, Conviction, Temperance or Valor?
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Not Virtue, virtue. The kind that makes your blood stronger. More importantly, the kind that gets you publicly recognized as a great hero and potential mate.

On a semi-related note, I'm quite happy that 3e's done away with the Virtues.

Aaron Peori said:
Man, you know what i wish we had in the setting?

Some sort of thing where we have a class of being that can inherit the power of their parents and that power is directly related to how powerful the parents were and can be improved with adventuring and can be passed on in turn.

No, wait. We already have Godblooded, whose Inheritance trait is explicitly half the combined Essence of the parents. Silly me.
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Godbloods are pretty damn different from what I'm proposing here, and you know it.

Aaron Peori said:
You don't have to have Golden Children be godblooded for them to be favored over Dragonblooded. Recall that Dragonblooded are powerful as a group and are the most efficient way of producing Exalt-tier opponents at very little cost. I imagine that the Golden Children were subject to high level Training Charms, permanent Sorcery, Wyld Mutation, augmentation via implanted artifacts and a variety of treatments that made them more skin to one-off Behemoths that existed around Second Circle Demon level of capability rather than Dragonblooded levels. The cost would have been insane, but what did the Solars care?
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I doubt that's necessary.

Even if the average Golden Child was less competent than your or me, they could still replace the Terrestrial Host. Because at that point in the First Age, Creation had far far more super(wo)men than it needed. Any one splat, alone, could probably have handled the world if the others set their affairs in order and left the universe peacefully. Actually, Creation might've been fine with no Exalts at all.

At least, that's the way I like to present the First Age.
 
Sanctaphrax said:
Sure. But who cares?
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:jackiechan:



Not Virtue, virtue. The kind that makes your blood stronger. More importantly, the kind that gets you publicly recognized as a great hero and potential mate.
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What kind of virtue? Determined by who? What are the criteria? How is it judged? What is the mechanism by which it makes you better at producing Exalted kids? Is it just another word for 'experience points'?

Godbloods are pretty damn different from what I'm proposing here, and you know it.
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But they're pretty much exactly what fulfills all your criteria. You can even have entire kingdoms run by them.

Even if the average Golden Child was less competent than your or me, they could still replace the Terrestrial Host. Because at that point in the First Age, Creation had far far more super(wo)men than it needed. Any one splat, alone, could probably have handled the world if the others set their affairs in order and left the universe peacefully. Actually, Creation might've been fine with no Exalts at all.
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See, this is manifestly untrue because the removal of the Solar Exalted caused the First Age to collapse into the Shogunate which was lesser in all ways. Also, without Exalts Creation would have been eaten by the Fair Folk. So, I'm beginning to kind of question your knowledge of the settings history.

It seems all your ideas require an ever increasing rewrite of the entire setting from Primordial History forward. Either that or so much handwaving you create hurricane force winds.

You can rewrite the entire setting to make your Dragonblooded less of a cynical satire of aristocracy and imperialism if that suits you, but I much prefer that Creation have a coherent setting that makes actual sense rather than this patchwork vague thing that makes you feel better about playing a imperialist ubermensch.
 
Aaron Peori said:
What kind of virtue? Determined by who? What are the criteria? How is it judged? What is the mechanism by which it makes you better at producing Exalted kids? Is it just another word for 'experience points'?
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It's deliberately vague, like the criteria for Celestial Exaltations. It's certainly not just a proxy for Essence, though it's almost certainly correlated.

Aaron Peori said:
But they're pretty much exactly what fulfills all your criteria. You can even have entire kingdoms run by them.
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No. Not at all.

Two different godbloods likely have next to nothing in common. They hardly have unifying themes at all, and the few they do have aren't the ones Terrestrials have. Which I quite like, apart from the eugenics-flavoured ones.

Aaron Peori said:
See, this is manifestly untrue because the removal of the Solar Exalted caused the First Age to collapse into the Shogunate which was lesser in all ways. Also, without Exalts Creation would have been eaten by the Fair Folk. So, I'm beginning to kind of question your knowledge of the settings history.
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The Usurpation wasn't just the departure of the Solar Exalted, you know. It was a gigantic war. I included that bit about setting affairs in order for a reason. If you missed that, you should be questioning yourself rather than me.

With the Wyld largely at bay, industrial-scale miracles, and a Heaven full of powerful gods, Creation might well have been fine.

(Bear in mind, I don't care for or about DotFA.)

Aaron Peori said:
It seems all your ideas require an ever increasing rewrite of the entire setting from Primordial History forward. Either that or so much handwaving you create hurricane force winds.
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If one idea requires the other, the cause goes the other way. I preferred this take on the First Age long before I came up with that idea for DB breeding.

Aaron Peori said:
You can rewrite the entire setting to make your Dragonblooded less of a cynical satire of aristocracy and imperialism if that suits you, but I much prefer that Creation have a coherent setting that makes actual sense rather than this patchwork vague thing that makes you feel better about playing a imperialist ubermensch.
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Funny thing is, I think this is a deeper attack on aristocracy than the canonical approach. And no less coherent or sensible.
 
Sanctaphrax said:
It's deliberately vague, like the criteria for Celestial Exaltations. It's certainly not just a proxy for Essence, though it's almost certainly correlated.
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Deliberately vague is entirely unhelpful but it does seem to summ up your entire premise in two words. No wonder you like 3rd edition. Vague handwaves that are completely unhelpful for actually running the game seems to be the new direction of Exalted and your idea will fit right in.



No. Not at all.

Two different godbloods likely have next to nothing in common. They hardly have unifying themes at all, and the few they do have aren't the ones Terrestrials have. Which I quite like, apart from the eugenics-flavoured ones.
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Name me one theme Dragonblooded have that a sufficiently large collection of god-blood could not also have.


The Usurpation wasn't just the departure of the Solar Exalted, you know. It was a gigantic war. I included that bit about setting affairs in order for a reason. If you missed that, you should be questioning yourself rather than me.

With the Wyld largely at bay, industrial-scale miracles, and a Heaven full of powerful gods, Creation might well have been fine.
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Man, I sure am glad the Gold Faction had absolutely no reason to resist the Vision of Bronze. It sure is great that the choice of the Sidereals was:

1: The Solars live and we do nothing, everybody dies.
2: The Solars live and we try to redeem them, high chance everyone dies and low chance everything is fine.
3: We kill the Solars, everything is fine.

Man, that was a complex moral question! It's not like its a key part of the setting that the choice is between something stable but lesser and something glorious but unstable! *whew* Glad that your vague handwave version of the setting removed two of the principle conflicts of the entire gameline. It's great that by going out of your way to justify your vague handwave Dragonblooded you managed to turn Solars into Objectively The Bad Guys.

Funny thing is, I think this is a deeper attack on aristocracy than the canonical approach. And no less coherent or sensible.
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Well, in vague handwave land, maybe that is true. I don't know. I've kind of spelled out in explicit terms repeatedly why the 1st/2nd edition canon is a scathing satire of aristocracy and imperialism. Maybe you can explain how vague handwave Dragonblooded are just as scathing or even a deeper take on the issue. I can't wait for this.

 
Okay, I'm bowing out of this.

Aaron, I think you're arguing with an entirely imaginary version of me. I recommend avoiding that guy, he's stupid and an asshole too.
 
The Zenith Caste Solar always get messages from the Unconquered Sun when they exalt. I seem to remember someone writing a snippet with the Sun's message when someone with a .... lack of moral character exalted, but I don't know where it is.
 
Man, I'm glad I've never had to experience an Exalted game that ignored the utterly crucial setting detail of the Golden Children's role in the Usurpation, or that didn't fully adhere to the gameline's clear and perfect articulation of what constitutes virtue. The horror.
 
Aaron Peori said:
You don't have to have Golden Children be godblooded for them to be favored over Dragonblooded. Recall that Dragonblooded are powerful as a group and are the most efficient way of producing Exalt-tier opponents at very little cost. I imagine that the Golden Children were subject to high level Training Charms, permanent Sorcery, Wyld Mutation, augmentation via implanted artifacts and a variety of treatments that made them more skin to one-off Behemoths that existed around Second Circle Demon level of capability rather than Dragonblooded levels. The cost would have been insane, but what did the Solars care?
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Hmmm, this does admittedly make more sense.

So a Dragon-Blooded is super competent and highly trained, but the Golden Child is ADAM JENSEN, WHO ASKED FOR THIS, and has a cost measured in nations instead of any ordinary currency, but is probably also super unstable and requires constant medication, care and maintenance to not suffer critical meltdown or something.

That does make it seem more reasonable.
 
Safety Among Enemies is one of the most hilarious things ever.

Chiming Minaret loved it, and used it to do stuff like this gem:

The Forsaken lifts his blade high, the orichalcum gleams in the sunlight, a stark contrast to the ashen ground beneath your knees. You can feel the rope around your hands bite into your wrists, just like the gag muffles your voice. "Let it be known, that such is the fate of all who deny the joyous message of the return of the Lawgivers!" the Anathema shouts. And then you can feel a rush of wind, as the axe falls downward with immense speed.
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Chiming Minaret remembers well the lessons she learned from her duel with Sala-Lakacha, and closes her eyes as if she accepted her fate. But then, at the last moment, she smiles and becomes as the water (I'll use Unassailable Body of Water Defense to dodge his attack, fuck you i'm not taking the chance to be hit by that bullshit. And I'll also throw in a Safety Among Enemies to fuck up the Zenith, just for good measure.) and moves freely to the side, as the water congeals into her form again, within an instant. She kicks his arm hard, and sends the blow right into the side of the Blasphemous by his side, smiling as the woman screams in pain.
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EDIT: Here, she demonstrates her great and vaunted mastery of I'll Turn You Into Fucking Salsa Prana, as you can see.
 
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Anyone got any advice on the best books for Sorcery? My friend's thinking of getting into Exalted and he's the kinda guy that really likes Swords & Sorcery style magic users.

EDIT: I think I should mention, he got very hyped when I showed him the Rolls of Glorious Divinity 2 cover so make of that what you will.
 
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ManusDomine said:
Safety Among Enemies is one of the most hilarious things ever.

Chiming Minaret loved it, and used it to do stuff like this gem:

(I'll use Unassailable Body of Water Defense to dodge his attack, fuck you i'm not taking the chance to be hit by that bullshit. And I'll also throw in a Safety Among Enemies to fuck up the Zenith, just for good measure.)
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I am pretty sure you can sail on bodies of water. :V
 
rogthnor said:
Does exalted have a monster manual equivalent? Or are you expected to create every npc and enemy?
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There's no dedicated monster manual, but the corebook and most setting supplements have NPC sections, many of which serve dual roles as plothooks and examples of typical writeups for their role.
 
Finally gotten around trying to do Ex3, and I must say...

... okay, I can see why Celestial Bliss is problematic. Effect feels too strong, and I don't see visible way of resisting it. I'll rule it as Essence roll-off, but I'm a bit disappointed there's no option of resisting it...
 
Just pretend it's not there. Better for everyone, I think.

Roadie said:
Here's my first try at rewriting Craft, but, more useful to most people will probably be my attempt to drastically condense the craft project subsystem. I think I did fairly well there, but as always, nitpicking is appreciated.
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You left DMP unchanged? Why would you do that?

I mean, at least add a once/scene limitation.

Anyway, I can't fault the clarity of your writing. But I think sticking to the canonical system so closely is a mistake. Unclear, spongey, and generally sloppy writing is like the ninth worst problem with Craft; fixing it won't get you anywhere particularly good.
 
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