Really? In my head it sounded more like someone grasping a complex problem? Maybe it's the Caps. Shouldn't have used the Caps. I'll go fix that.

But yeah, not hostile, just a huge revelation. Like learning the sky is blue because of refraction.

Also, sorry for the delay, lost internet for a little bit.
Also, using quotation marks for emphasis is commonly interpreted as mocking or otherwise insincere (or a sign that the emphasised words are meant to be an euphemism). There's a whole subreddit for that, even.

For example, if i said "I added some "milk" to your coffee", most people would think i've done something truly awful to it. :V
 
Last edited:
Yeah, my mistake.

On more relevant topics: How could we force Mordred to work with their dad? Because 'they just try to kill each other' is too obvious for this level of Clusterfuck. :V
"Come on imagine if some other fucker comes in after you've camlanned each other again and snipes the winner. Unacceptable right? Or even worse gets the kill before you get the chance! Obviously you need to work together, so you can kill each other last."
 
This completely disregards Shirou's action in the Grail War for... no reason. He goes in with a clear objective, acts to try and fulfill those objectives, and through those actions changes and often derails the plans of other. The grail doesn't act AT ALL in F/SN - not with any sort of real volition. some of the Antagonist forces use its power (Dark Sakura, etc) but they are operating on their OWN drives, not the Grails.

The 'Protagonist' not being the POV character is not purely a Japanese thing, nor does EVERY Japanese narrative have to operate under such a rule. To assert anything otherwise is ridiculous.

What clear objective(s) do Shirou's actions in the Grail War have? Protect everyone? That is very vague. Something else? Please enlighten me then I have failed to notice the else. No I'm not being sarcastic or mocking or anything else other than genuine in my statements here.

Every Antagonist of the routes in F/SN is caused by the corruption in the Grail. They even clarify that in later installments of Fate.

No it's not a purely Japanese thing, but yes almost every mainstream Japanese action narrative operates under those rules.

By your definitions then I am asserting the ridiculous.

Additionally, Shirou is explicitly the driving force of the story, it is his decisions that decide the route, his decisions that decide the outcome, his decisions that decide the STORY. Angra Mainyu/the Grail is an obstacle that Shirou overcomes, not a character, not a decision maker, definitely not a protagonist.

Shirou chooses, yes, but he chooses how to react never how to act.
 
Also, using quotation marks for emphasis is commonly interpreted as mocking or otherwise insincere (or a sign that the emphasised words are meant to be an euphemism). There's a whole subreddit for that, even.

For example, if i said "I added some "milk" to your coffee", most people would think i've done something truly awful to it. :V
Well that's a neat little bit of language contextualization I wasn't familiar with. I guess I'll remove the quotation marks as well.
 
I'm curious how it could be a revelation?

He is the protagonist of every adaptation of Fate/Stay Night, and of Fate/Hollow Ataraxia, and he always has been. What role did you think he played?
I always assumed the protagonist is whatever hot female character is keeping shirou alive and ends up with him at the end. I thought that was what we were voting for at the start? Which alternative female Heroine would get the job of repeatedly saving shirou's sweet ass? Granted I've subverted that trope by voting for him to start dating Ayako(love subverting tropes), but the QM said that wasn't a Medea don't get the shirou booty vote, so it should still be fine?

Like, Saber in core fate/stay night, Rin in UBW, and I assume Sakura in Heavens feel(I actually haven't gotten around to this one. Distracted by the FGO releases. Still have buying Camelot on my list before I'm in position to swing back to Heaven's feel)

So yeah, I always assumed shirou was the sweet helpless husbando in a neat bit of gender subversion on Nasu's part. I mean clearly he gains strength as things grow more dire for the OP heroine, but that works for female helpless damsel types so I don't see why it wouldn't work for a male one?
 
Seems like at worst this is an argument that FSN is badly written, not that Shirou is not a protagonist.


Also shirou is the protagonist because the original FSN is a port game so the protag has to fuck, hope this helps. :V

In porn the POV has to fuck, not the protag. The protag is sometimes the POV, sometimes the one fucking the POV and sometimes sets up the POV to fuck.
 
What clear objective(s) do Shirou's actions in the Grail War have? Protect everyone? That is very vague. Something else? Please enlighten me then I have failed to notice the else. No I'm not being sarcastic or mocking or anything else other than genuine in my statements here.

Every Antagonist of the routes in F/SN is caused by the corruption in the Grail. They even clarify that in later installments of Fate.

No it's not a purely Japanese thing, but yes almost every mainstream Japanese action narrative operates under those rules.

By your definitions then I am asserting the ridiculous.



Shirou chooses, yes, but he chooses how to react never how to act.

Seems like at worst this is an argument that FSN is badly written, not that Shirou is not a protagonist.


Also shirou is the protagonist because the original FSN is a port game so the protag has to fuck, hope this helps. :V

I always assumed the protagonist is whatever hot female character is keeping shirou alive and ends up with him at the end. I thought that was what we were voting for at the start? Which alternative female Heroine would get the job of repeatedly saving shirou's sweet ass? Granted I've subverted that trope by voting for him to start dating Ayako(love subverting tropes), but the QM said that wasn't a Medea don't get the shirou booty vote, so it should still be fine?

Like, Saber in core fate/stay night, Rin in UBW, and I assume Sakura in Heavens feel(I actually haven't gotten around to this one. Distracted by the FGO releases. Still have buying Camelot on my list before I'm in position to swing back to Heaven's feel)

So yeah, I always assumed shirou was the sweet helpless husbando in a neat bit of gender subversion on Nasu's part. I mean clearly he gains strength as things grow more dire for the OP heroine, but that works for female helpless damsel types so I don't see why it wouldn't work for a male one?


Guys, I know I was involved in this discussion earlier but at this point it needs to get moved either to DMs or the general F/SN thread. A Quest thread is not the place to discuss a VNs narrative structuring or Japanese conceptions of Protagonists.

Short diversions are fine but this has been an entire page now. We should probably stay on topic.

Topics such as - How screwed is Gil?
 
Fixed that for ya. Seriously dude he has a Saberface boner and at least two Saberfaces.

One of which is being powered by Rin. If it wasn't for everything else going pear-shaped I'd almost think it was unfair. Though given how this war is going I half expect him to get eaten by A Shoggoth or something.
 
Fixed that for ya. Seriously dude he has a Saberface boner and at least two Saberfaces. The man will be in masochist haven before this is over. Well if he's not eaten by someone else before that.
Lol. Mordred and Gil are not compatible, before Mordred takes some of the blood from their perma-gut wound and throws it in Gils eyes to foul his aim. Unless their is another Saber face he's best off focusing on artoria.

Also is no one going to ever react to my assertion that if shirou breaks out the command seals to restrain Mordred from a fight Mordred will smash his dangly bits to paste? :V
 
Last edited:
Lol. Mordred and Gil are not compatible, before Mordred takes some of the blood from their perma-gut wound and throws it in Gils eyes to foul his aim. Unless their is another Saber face he's best off focusing on artoria.

Also is no one going to ever react to my assertion that if shirou breaks out the command seals to restrain Mordred from a fight Mordred will smash his dangly bits to paste? :V

I mean, Berserker, it's a given :p
 
So a thought occurred while I was thinking about the chapter.

Does Avalon only work when Artoria is bonded to Shirou? Or does it work with Mordred as well?

'Cause I think we saw it kick on after she was summoned.

Alternatively, does it only need proximity to Saber?
 
So a thought occurred while I was thinking about the chapter.

Does Avalon only work when Artoria is bonded to Shirou? Or does it work with Mordred as well?

'Cause I think we saw it kick on after she was summoned.

Alternatively, does it only need proximity to Saber?
I've read some works where the nature of the fairy magic involved and Mordred's similarities and traces of Artoria's essence from her creation allow it to attune to her.

In general a mix of an applicable saber and wounded Shirou are needed to activate it. Doesn't necessarily be Saber Artoria Pendragon.
I think she would object to the idea that she has a child. And noone ever said she couldn't bring one of her knights to work!
Funny thing about Mordred. Fate has him pretty much conceived during the aftermath of Arthur's coronation, and Homunculus style aged to combat worthiness, which would mean that at the time of Camlann, Mordred was probably ten years old at most, and thus still an adolescent.
 
Last edited:
Reines, is that a Darwin award coming at lightspeed towards you I see in the distance!?

What kinda Englishman, let alone a bloody scion of a Magus house, takes gifts from Fae!? Like, it doesn't matter whether it's Vortigern or Annatar, it's still Oberon! He might have been human once, but he's sure as hell a member of faekind now.
 
There are examples of stories where the PoV character isn't the protagonist, Moby Dick is one of the greatest examples. Fate stay however is Shirou's story. Whichever heroine he chooses joins him as a protagonist for their route, but our justice boy remains the main character of the story.

Also, Reines, you don't accept gifts from the fae. Especially one named Oberon. Not without more than a "oh it's just a gift". You are English! And a mage! Shouldn't you have been taught about the fae's tricks?
 
Back
Top