Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest!

Anyway...Crys, LDj, Gore, I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. I'm working on characters, and I was wondering how Max Boost and Stat Explosion would work.

You see, one of my ideas is an MG that's capable of casting a spell to transform herself into a monstrous combat form. She's capable of fighting in her base MG Form, but the spell turns her into something much more intimidating. How should that be treated in terms of Abilities and weapons?
 
Honestly I expected someone to guess what I was hinting at by this point. Guess fewer people here know the expy source than I thought?

So just to be clear it's supposed to be the tankiest thing we've ever seen right?
No, 'cause you've seen Indestructible objects before, and those are literally impossible to damage.
 
I think I'm looking at this from a different perspective. When I read that I assume that the current Celestial Severance will destroy the ice where it hits, as a thin pane of irresistible magical force. This would leave a small cut (inches wide) in the ice and the rest of the dome would stay put, whether the swing hits for 10 million or 10 billion doesn't really change this. Busting out takes many differently aimed swings to punch a hole in the dome big enough to fly through.
If Celestial Severance cuts through the dome that it doesn't really matter if the dome goes down since we can just blind fire and since Still Winter doesn't have flight be pretty sure of hitting her.

Even setting that aside however we've repeatedly been told that sufficient levels of damage causes splash damage. So either CS should go up in a great big explosion on impact, bursting a significant hole, or we can just fire at the ground directly in front of the globe to get a similar effect.

If we accept that CS can't burst through then we're left with Starshine which does 154,352 Damage per shot in regular mode for a total of 617,408 per Turn and 1,234,816 over two Turns. In which case we just need to get Starshine to Level 20 at which point it can deal 301,444 Damage per attack and 1,205,776 Damage per Turn.
 
I'm guessing one of her mystery abilities provide the Snow Globe with loads more health than it should have on its own.

Guess fewer people here know the expy source than I thought?
Sorry, I can't say I know the expy source.

Even setting that aside however we've repeatedly been told that sufficient levels of damage causes splash damage.
Yes, but Celestial Severance explicitly doesn't have that. It cuts everything in its line of fire, and nothing even a centimeter further than that. Otherwise we'd potentially take off the tops of mountains with it if we used it at its current level.
 
Hmm...looking at the Tv Tropes character page, I'm going to guess that one of her Abilities completely negates ranged attacks that target and/or pass through the Snow Globe. Since Solid Core's spells are both ranged, that would leave her with using her weapon in melee, and the Snow Globe's Abilities of Thick Armor and Adamantine would severely weaken her Panzer Blade's Juggernaut.
 
IIRC the worse starting point for the quest have all the goddesses dead, so this give you an idea of how things actually went without aside from doing nothing until someone killed her.(This is more for the other poster as, well, you know how the would go in the worse scenario for obvious reasons)
How i have no idea, considering Red is solidly in UD team.

Seriously, if she decided "Fuck it,let's go full White Kingdom and take back what's mine" she could have changed the war single handily without us.
She had ways, albeit it could have gone wrong.
You aren't being creative enough, about "how could Goddess Four have died". Let me describe you how I think it could have happened.

1) Hope happens, and the invasion happens even earlier. IIRC it was stated that Hope was five years before, and Eternal Darkness Setting has us being under the UD's foot stomping on our face, for a while - IIRC a decade (10 years).
2) Goddess Four take the field - less experienced, seasoned and come into their own powers. Assume they were only recently defeated by Red Rose. They take to the field - and die, together or separately. Grey dies to the same opponent as before. Red dies before she gets to Grey - for the actual quest's current Dark Lord chooses to kill her rather than turn her. White disappears, we'll get to her momentarily. Gold and Red Rose retreat, beaten.
3) Events of The Pale Light of the Moon mission happen shortly afterwards - with nobody to help out and resolve it. WEAPONS are slaughtered. Goddess White, who joined Shiva/Sil, and Maidens of the End are slaughered. Shiva and Sil are Slain. Gaia is mortally wounded. Humanity's Homeworld is now unprotected by its Divine Being.
4) Concurrently, Reluxus gets overrun. Grand Archangel Gabriel is left on the other side of the portal. She dies in vain.
5) Information on Gaia's sorry state reaches Unified Darkness. Earth gets overrun. It is at this time Red Rose and Goddess Gold die, one finally meeting the champions who can overcome her, the other destroying herself and the entirety of Africa in one last attack - largerly depleting Unified Darkness' forces at the same time.
6) The remnants of UD push through to smash open the gates to Faerie Realms, and the situation somewhat stabilizes from there.
7) Over the course of next ten years, UD eradicates the Faerie Realms utterly, cuts an ashen path through Elven Empire, and lays siege to the Heaven itself.
8) Melanie Jutte becomes Magical Girl ERROR/End, and the Eternal Darkness Quest starts.
 
Please worse case would be all the goddess joining UD via goddess red turns, Reses all the other Goddess and use them as the hard hitters for the attack on Heaven.
 
3) Events of The Pale Light of the Moon mission happen shortly afterwards - with nobody to help out and resolve it. WEAPONS are slaughtered. Goddess White, who joined Shiva/Sil, and Maidens of the End are slaughered. Shiva and Sil are Slain. Gaia is mortally wounded. Humanity's Homeworld is now unprotected by its Divine Being.
Pale Light doesn't have consequences that drastic.
 
You aren't being creative enough, about "how could Goddess Four have died". Let me describe you how I think it could have happened.

1) Hope happens, and the invasion happens even earlier. IIRC it was stated that Hope was five years before, and Eternal Darkness Setting has us being under the UD's foot stomping on our face, for a while - IIRC a decade (10 years).
Actually, the Eternal Darkness setting would occur in the future compared to the timeframe of this quest. 2020's if you're correct about it being over a decade.
Please worse case would be all the goddess joining UD via goddess red turns, Reses all the other Goddess and use them as the hard hitters for the attack on Heaven.
She'd more likely turn of the Dark Lord, gut the UD then bugger off to live with her sisters.
 
Pale Light doesn't have consequences that drastic.
Well... not right now it doesn't, but the principal actors' lineup is rather telling, and who knows what could happen if our MG/UL allies aren't there to intervene.
Actually, the Eternal Darkness setting would occur in the future compared to the timeframe of this quest. 2020's if you're correct about it being over a decade.
So... The future, it's murder, huh? And here I thought it was actually the same timeframe as this quest...
 
Don't worry it's still possible to be the same Timeline....
Wait no that be bad, so do worry.
On the flipside, it's possible for CrystalWatcher to say (if we royally bungle this quest) that he's, ahem, "giving us a chance to right the wrongs we've caused" and reboot this quest in Eternal Darkness setting.

Why, it might be his default plan if Operation Answerer fails!
 
Yeah, just so we're clear? If things hadn't gone the way they did, it would have ended in a deathmatch between Rei and San

:o
This surprise me, considering how easily she folded this time.
I assume it wouldn't happen at the virus facility.
Probably San become more and more unhinged while working for Shiva,maybe killing Truth/White Knight/Carnage and so on and Rei decide to put her down for good because her plan is bad?
Still,very interesting.
It make sense, considering Ni really doesn't want another Ichi....and Ichi is Ichi.
She'd more likely turn of the Dark Lord, gut the UD then bugger off to live with her sisters.

And the Dark Lord probably killed her when she started getting ideas, or when Rei died, because you don't leave someone with three Goddesses alive.
So(Just hypothetical of course)
San---->Killed by Rei
Rei---> Killed by the Dark Lord/Killed by whatever ace in hole the UD have to win the war?
Ichi and Ni---->Became too strong and were killed off?

Actually, that's because she has nothing that would be useful to get with her current EXP. So that is not a fair criticism.

The fact itself that she thinks she has nothing useful is the problem.
No one accomplish something standing in place, this is a fact.
Every MG's at a certain point watched what she could upgrade and said "Well,this is useless", because magic is a bitch, but no one stopped because stopping means death and failure.
But Rei already gave up on the idea of changing things with her own hands, because it consider it impossible for her...with solid reasons of course considering she is fighting two goddesses that she doesn't want to kill and the entire UD.

But when one of your sister is brainwashed, another disappeared and the last one went off the deep end, when everything you know and love in on the cusp on collapse and you can't change things because it would means killing your own sister.
A person ready to take back everything that is rightfully hers doesn't wait and see when "wait and see" does nothing.
There is a chance, as minuscule as it is, that she could find something useful after the "useless" upgrades?A small one? You take it, because you have three crazy sister to bring back and you need everything you can find.
There is nothing?Doesn't matter, you still take it, because every single scrap of power can do something, doesn't matter how small.
You leave some in reserve,this is sensible for any veteran MG, not the ungodly amount Gold is currently hoarding.

i don't know how to explain it clearly...and i don't really like my explanation
Uhm...
Gold doesn't feel the need to become stronger, and that simply means she doesn't think her strength can actually do something, and the problem is that she's have enough margin to think about it is something abnormal in itself.
She already past the Godzilla Threshold and hundred times over, she's already post the point of asking herself how much her upgrades would be useful.
Because if she didn't give up then she would desperately take every single scrap of power, doesn't matter how useless it is, because her situation is that desperate.
How could i say it? In short, people on a warpath don't let the the kitchen sink at home because they won't need it, they take everything, because they are on a warpath, both the nukes and the kitchen sink.

White disappeared period, and only recently showed up again. And I'm honestly unsure why you think the Counter Force didn't look for her. Gaia could have told her, but didn't.

Of course they did, the Counter Force does everything and look for everyone.
When you're an army in an eternal war you don't want surprises, and surprises tends to come from the unexpected places and neutral powerhouses.
Does this meant the CF used serious resources or gave it an high-priority?
I bet no, for very sensible reason.

First of all, White is a deserter, when you have the UD at your doorstep you need a good reason to start searching seriously for someone that with all probability won't attack you unless you search for her.

Second of all,White is a goddess, meaning you must use strong people to find her, or chances are your search parties will be vaporized, even with your best search parties, there is a 50/50 chance for everyone to die unless you use an ace like Red Rose, that it's your "We need someone dead now" and "Survive at all cost" specialist.
And you're not gonna send your best to search for someone that it's neutral for all you know.

Third of all, finding White is useless aside from information.
Even if you find her, knowing she is chilling out in the middle of nowhere doing unimportant things is completely useless, because you can't bring her back into the fold, so you wasted/occupied your best search parties, maybe even alerted the UD of her position for absolutely nothing.
Because you are in no position to bring her back into the fold unless she comes willingly, the CF lack the everything to do the former and the latter is considered impossible, because White, well, just disappeared.

In the meanwhile, Hope just happened and you need to rebuild everything, because the UD wasted you so bad that the even an Oblivion guard would say "Yeah,too far".

Without Rei explicit promise that she would bring White into the fold why the CF should have made White a priority? An useless mission that would require their best to maybe die and would bring back simple, very possibly useless information.
Once White becomes a priority is just a matter of time before Rei herself or CF start asking Gaia, or Gaia simply taken notes of what the hell is going on and explain it to the CF just to stop such a waste of resources.

Of course that would mean White can't save her family in some way, and we return to the my point about Gold accepting her own perceived powerlessness .
It all makes sense, when you see how Gold react in the most important situations, when the pressure really get's to her.
She doesn't order, she doesn't attack like Amanda, she doesn't fight....she simply ask and beg.
Because she's a person that went much past her breaking point, but can't simply stop and become a "Soldier" like Amanda did, so she simply keep going by some miracle of willpower....and being really fucking awesome.
 
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:o
This surprise me, considering how easily she folded this time.
I assume it wouldn't happen at the virus facility.
Probably San become more and more unhinged while working for Shiva,maybe killing Truth/White Knight/Carnage and so on and Rei decide to put her down for good because her plan is bad?
Still,very interesting.
It make sense, considering Ni really doesn't want another Ichi....and Ichi is Ichi.
Imagine a scenario where you've tracked down the Maidens and Goddess White to where they're preparing to release the mankind destroying virus, and are heading to stop them when you get informed that they've begun. The problem is, you're far enough away that by the time you reach them, it'll be too late. But you just so happen to have an attack that is fast, has a long range and enough power to shatter their defences and stop them in one blow.
Every MG's at a certain point watched what she could upgrade and said "Well,this is useless", because magic is a bitch, but no one stopped because stopping means death and failure.
Except this isn't true? It's normal for a MG to reach a point they stop improving and upgrading themselves. Sometimes something will happen and it'll start up again, but that's not guaranteed. Like, none of the Goddesses have spent any XP in years, and I don't think any of the Top 10 have either. In fact, I'm fairly certain that Red Rose's character sheet is near identical to when she killed White Soul, just with an additional Super Ability she unlocked some time after that. And I might even be wrong on that.
i don't know how to explain it clearly...and i don't really like my explanation
Uhm...
Gold doesn't feel the need to become stronger, and that simply means she doesn't think her strength can actually do something, and the problem is that she's have enough margin to think about it is something abnormal in itself.
She already past the Godzilla Threshold and hundred times over, she's already post the point of asking herself how much her upgrades would be useful.
Because if she didn't give up then she would desperately take every single scrap of power, doesn't matter how useless it is, because her situation is that desperate.
How could i say it? In short, people on a warpath don't let the the kitchen sink at home because they won't need it, they take everything, because they are on a warpath, both the nukes and the kitchen sink.
Okay, see, here's the thing: she doesn't get stronger because she doesn't need to be. There is literally nothing getting stronger will do for her. She's maxed out, hit the point diminishing returns has become flat. And she has improved, it's just been skill wise, which isn't shown on the character sheet.

Buying something new, or upgrading her abilities would honestly make her weaker, not stronger. And she knows this.
Once White becomes a priority is just a matter of time before Rei herself or CF start asking Gaia, or Gaia simply taken notes of what the hell is going on and explain it to the CF just to stop such a waste of resources.
See, that requires Gaia to actually tell them. Which is a big assumption on your part.

Honestly, I suspect Gaia played apart in her disappearing.
 
Okay, see, here's the thing: she doesn't get stronger because she doesn't need to be. There is literally nothing getting stronger will do for her. She's maxed out, hit the point diminishing returns has become flat. And she has improved, it's just been skill wise, which isn't shown on the character sheet.

Buying something new, or upgrading her abilities would honestly make her weaker, not stronger. And she knows this.
I'd like you to explain this last line about things making her weaker.

Because, just as an example, if she cannot find it in herself to improve her greatest powers, why not spend time to pick up some utility?
Like, Goddess Gold is awesome. Goddess Gold with decent teleportation and dimension-hopping is more awesome.
Not to mention that she might try and expand in a direction not covered by her Annihilation, and learn some kind of protection spell aimed at her subjects - like an aura or something. I've seen at least two MGs with Hell Rush (ally-heal aura) - Magical Girl Truth and Magical Girl Steel Monsoon.
 
Imagine a scenario where you've tracked down the Maidens and Goddess White to where they're preparing to release the mankind destroying virus, and are heading to stop them when you get informed that they've begun. The problem is, you're far enough away that by the time you reach them, it'll be too late. But you just so happen to have an attack that is fast, has a long range and enough power to shatter their defences and stop them in one blow.

Yes, come to me, sweet lore.
Jokes aside, truly a tragic situation...not that will happen now that we are here.

Except this isn't true? It's normal for a MG to reach a point they stop improving and upgrading themselves. Sometimes something will happen and it'll start up again, but that's not guaranteed. Like, none of the Goddesses have spent any XP in years, and I don't think any of the Top 10 have either. In fact, I'm fairly certain that Red Rose's character sheet is near identical to when she killed White Soul, just with an additional Super Ability she unlocked some time after that. And I might even be wrong on that.

Well, on this i concede to the more knowledgeable one on such matters.
But isn't the whole "Magical Girl don't have a set limit" that ruined the Old Guard style(tried to min-max instead of becoming stronger like the Goddesses, that went for the long run) and the reason UD kills promising MGs the second they becomes important?
it's just that the rate of grow become slower? Or after a certain point MG stop growing? Or the rate become still the same, but it's not enough to actually do something relevant?


Okay, see, here's the thing: she doesn't get stronger because she doesn't need to be. There is literally nothing getting stronger will do for her. She's maxed out, hit the point diminishing returns has become flat. And she has improved, it's just been skill wise, which isn't shown on the character sheet.

Buying something new, or upgrading her abilities would honestly make her weaker, not stronger. And she knows this.

Well, if the returns are flat then yeah, it is an unfair criticism, i admit it.
But i don't understand how upgrading her abilities would make her weaker, because she losses the control she grasped on them and must retrain?

See, that requires Gaia to actually tell them. Which is a big assumption on your part.

Honestly, I suspect Gaia played apart in her disappearing.

The rest of the point still stand:p
But i think you're judging Gaia a bit too harshly here, i mean, she saw NGE, she knows how badly things go when you start manipulating emotionally hurt teenagers,right?
...
Yeah, she launched a gigantic scorpion at a virus facility as an opening move, she's not the sanest person on earth(eh!)
I would ask why you think so, but i'm fairly certain it is a spoiler so....:cry:
 
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Hmm...looking at the Tv Tropes character page, I'm going to guess that one of her Abilities completely negates ranged attacks that target and/or pass through the Snow Globe. Since Solid Core's spells are both ranged, that would leave her with using her weapon in melee, and the Snow Globe's Abilities of Thick Armor and Adamantine would severely weaken her Panzer Blade's Juggernaut.
Celestial Severance is still a melee attack. Its just a very big melee attack.
 
I'd like you to explain this last line about things making her weaker.

Because, just as an example, if she cannot find it in herself to improve her greatest powers, why not spend time to pick up some utility?
Like, Goddess Gold is awesome. Goddess Gold with decent teleportation and dimension-hopping is more awesome.
Not to mention that she might try and expand in a direction not covered by her Annihilation, and learn some kind of protection spell aimed at her subjects - like an aura or something. I've seen at least two MGs with Hell Rush (ally-heal aura) - Magical Girl Truth and Magical Girl Steel Monsoon.
I'm absolutely positive she lacks the ability to gain those.
Yes, come to me, sweet lore.
Jokes aside, truly a tragic situation...not that will happen now that we are here.

Well, on this i concede to the more knowledgeable one on such matters.
But isn't the whole "Magical Girl don't have a set limit" that ruined the Old Guard style(tried to min-max instead of becoming stronger like the Goddesses, that went for the long run) and the reason UD kills promising MGs the second they becomes important?
it's just that the rate of grow become slower? Or after a certain point MG stop growing? Or the rate become still the same, but it's not enough to actually do something relevant?

Well, if the returns are flat then yeah, it is an unfair criticism, i admit it.
But i don't understand how upgrading her abilities would make her weaker, because she losses the control she grasped on them and must retrain?

The rest of the point still stand:p
But i think you're judging Gaia a bit too harshly here, i mean, she saw NGE, she knows how badly things go when you start manipulating emotionally hurt teenagers,right?
...
Yeah, she launched a gigantic scorpion at a virus facility as an opening move, she's not the sanest person on earth(eh!)
I would ask why you think so, but i'm fairly certain it is a spoiler so....:cry:
1) That's not what actually happened, but it does give you an idea of how such a thing would have gone down.

...At least, I don't think it's what actually happened.

2) Well, technically the rate of growth grows slower, due to the increased xp requirements, but that's compensated by the ability to fight bigger, nastier threats. No, what they run into is same problem Nepgear is running into: past a certain point, you're just increasing the overkill for no point, while becoming a danger to yourself and everyone around. Aka, past a certain point, you need to have an appropriate amount of skill to wield that power.

3) Yep. She upgrades Oblivion Awaits? Crap, need to relearn everything. Much how we mentioned that if we had Nepgear learn how to wield her powers with skill, then you voted to upgrade them, you'd have have to go back to basic. And that time spent learning to regain her skills? That's time she could have used getting better, while Ichi and Ni are getting better.

4) Gaia loves humanity. She cares little-to-nothing about individual humans however, and has been stated before, will gleefully kill and manipulate hundreds if not thousands/millions in the course of her machinations if she thinks the end result is worth it.

And, just as importantly, Gaia has the ability to share the senses, hear the thoughts of and manipulate the minds and bodies of humans, which includes MG's. Something that was detailed in her interlude. And yet, Dark Magical Girls exist.
 
3) Yep. She upgrades Oblivion Awaits? Crap, need to relearn everything. Much how we mentioned that if we had Nepgear learn how to wield her powers with skill, then you voted to upgrade them, you'd have have to go back to basic. And that time spent learning to regain her skills? That's time she could have used getting better, while Ichi and Ni are getting better.
I have this feeling this kind of issue is largerly endemic to Divinities, Epics, and (to a lesser degree) Legends.

For the rest of MGs, the rate of growth is low enough that they actually can learn by doing, and not by training.
And, just as importantly, Gaia has the ability to share the senses, hear the thoughts of and manipulate the minds and bodies of humans, which includes MG's. Something that was detailed in her interlude. And yet, Dark Magical Girls exist.
Going by Gaia's character sheet, this is the effect of Gaia's The World Egg ability combined with the fact Humanity is her weapon to make them unconditionally subject to her The World Egg and Passage of Time.

However, let's look at these:
Passage of Time
-Gaia is completely and totally aware of every event that has ever happened upon her surface. Every thought, every idea, and every concept. As time passes this knowledge updates automatically and continuously through the collective experiences of the entire Human Race as they fight across different dimensions.

The World Egg

-Gaia is capable of directly effecting anything and everything within her sphere of influence to a minor degree. The more in line with her intentions the object she influences, the more control she has over it.
The World Egg, aka "I control everyone to a degree", explicitly lowers effectiveness the less in line with her intentions the object she influences.

Assume the premise of "Existence of Dark Magical Girls is inimical to Gaia's intentions". It's a rather big assumption, but she'd have been able to throw a tantrum at humanity at large when they joined with Unified Light had the opposite - allegiance of Magical Girls to Unified Light - been inimical to her intentions.

I then posit that Dark Magical Girls by their very existence become humans Gaia has next to no control over.

And then it becomes a Catch-22 scenario - to use her powers to stop them from being undesirable elements, she needs to be able to affect them, but to be able to affect them, they need to stop being undesirable elements and become subject to her powers in the first place.
 
The World Egg, aka "I control everyone to a degree", explicitly lowers effectiveness the less in line with her intentions the object she influences.

Assume the premise of "Existence of Dark Magical Girls is inimical to Gaia's intentions". It's a rather big assumption, but she'd have been able to throw a tantrum at humanity at large when they joined with Unified Light had the opposite - allegiance of Magical Girls to Unified Light - been inimical to her intentions.

I then posit that Dark Magical Girls by their very existence become humans Gaia has next to no control over.

And then it becomes a Catch-22 scenario - to use her powers to stop them from being undesirable elements, she needs to be able to affect them, but to be able to affect them, they need to stop being undesirable elements and become subject to her powers in the first place.
Well, two things:
1) You're forgetting about her "Instant Evolution" spell. And the fact that, as Humanity is her weapon, she has more control over it, and has can use magic on it automatically.
2) She may have only limited control over them, but she knows exactly what they can, where they are and what they're planning. If she wanted to stop them, she could. Hell, she could have warned people about Gray preparing to attack the base. She did not.
 
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4) Gaia loves humanity. She cares little-to-nothing about individual humans however, and has been stated before, will gleefully kill and manipulate hundreds if not thousands/millions in the course of her machinations if she thinks the end result is worth it.

And, just as importantly, Gaia has the ability to share the senses, hear the thoughts of and manipulate the minds and bodies of humans, which includes MG's. Something that was detailed in her interlude. And yet, Dark Magical Girls exist.

Well, two things:
1) You're forgetting about her "Instant Evolution" spell. And the fact that, as Humanity is her weapon, she has more control over it, and has can use magic on it automatically.
2) She may have only limited control over them, but she knows exactly what they can, where they are and what they're planning. If she wanted to stop them, she could. Hell, she could have warned people about Gray preparing to attack the base. She did not.

No! NO!
She saw NGE!
She is a fellow anime and manga and games and tabletop games enthusiast!
We though you were smart! You were the chosen one! Not one prey of cliches and over-complicated and nonsensical plans!
....
You know...i'm starting to understand the White Kingdom "Kill each other for all we care unless Cosmos is in danger" foreign policy.
Gaia doesn't seems very smart considering that if Humanity says "No,Fuck you" she eats a nuke to the face, but hey, i'm already disappointed by "I'm letting vital information outside of the Counter Force reach for shit and giggles to evolve humanity to a new level"
....
Let's just start seeing searching for our Anti-Divine beings spell just in case.
 
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