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Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest!

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Adhoc vote count started by Crystalwatcher on Nov 21, 2017 at 12:16 AM, finished with 491 posts and 17 votes.
  • [X] Plan Grab Her Mark 3
    -[X] Activate Core Purge, make sure that it's targeting Juggernaut Drive's Control Seal instead of her, and keep it active until she's down
    -[X] Try to get Juggernaut Drive within Core Purge range, while avoiding that spear. If Sega's in danger though, try to take the hit for her
    -[X] Ask Sega how Juggernaut's spell works.
    --[X] If Juggernaut throws her spear, avoid intercepting Juggernaut's attacks
    --[X] If Juggernaut has to get in close and stab, consider deliberately getting Juggernaut to cast her spell at you so as to bring her in Core Purge range
    -[X] Yell to Sega that if she can do it safely, she should grab Juggernaut and hold her still
    -[X] If possible, block Juggernaut's attacks with the skills you've learned.
    [X] [EXP] Plan Faster
    -[X] Upgrade Flight to level 27 (510 XP)
    [X] Plan KISS
    -[X] Activate Core Purge, targeting the Seal Juggernaut Drive has.
    -[X] Engage in defensive maneuvers otherwise.
    [X] [EXP] Plan Upgrade
    -[X] Upgrade Flight to level 30 (1350 XP)
    [X] Plan Grab Her Version 2
    -[X] Activate Core Purge, make sure that it's targeting Juggernaut Drive's Control Seal instead of her, and keep it active until she's down
    -[X] Try to get Juggernaut Drive within Core Purge range, while avoiding that spear. If Sega's in danger though, try to take the hit for her
    -[X] Yell to Sega that if she can, she should grab Juggernaut and hold her still
    -[X] If possible, block Juggernaut's attacks with the skills you've learned.
    -[X] Ask Sega how Juggernaut's spell works.
    --[X] If Juggernaut throws her spear, avoid intercepting Juggernaut's attacks
    --[X] If Juggernaut has to get in close and stab, consider deliberately getting Juggernaut to cast her spell at you so as to bring her in Core Purge range
    [X] [EXP] Plan Go Fast
    [X] Plan Grab Her
    -[X] Activate Core Purge, make sure that it's targeting Juggernaut Drive's Control Seal instead of her, and keep it active until she's down
    -[X] Try to get Juggernaut Drive within Core Purge range, while avoiding that spear. If Sega's in danger though, try to take the hit for her
    -[X] Yell to Sega that if she can, she should grab Juggernaut and hold her still
    [X] [EXP] Plan Go Fast
    -[X] Upgrade Flight to level 28 (780 XP)
    [X] Plan Tail Gunner
    -[X] Shout out that you won't let her kill you or your sister, even if you have to kill her to make her stop.
    -[X] Try to keep up with Solid Drive, if Juggernaut Drive gets close cast a very telegraphed Celestial Severance to make her back off (if she flies into it and dies that sucks, but saving Sega is more important right now). Try to circle a bit to avoid getting too far away from Goddess Gold.
    --[X] If Juggernaut backs away for long enough active Core Purge targeting Red's seals.
    ---[X] Cast Starshine into the sky to try and force Juggernaut closer to the ground so you can try to get close enough to hit the seal with Core Purge.
    --[X] If Juggernaut stays too close for Core Purge but far enough to dodge your lazy sword plane spells keep flying until Rei looks less busy on the ground, then fly towards the ground in hopes that Gold will chain everyone up and solve the issue.
    [x] Plan Run Away!
    -[x] You don't need to take her down yourself—if you can stall until Goddess Gold is done with White Soul, you win.
    -[x] Run and dodge, and counterattack only as a means of slowing her down.
    --[x] Get away from Goddess Gold, so that nobody gets killed by a stray attack.
    --[x] Look for obstacles on the ground—going through them will slow you down, but it will also slow down Juggernaut and prevent her from charging you directly. A forest would be ideal—she needs to be able to see you to hit you, and while you're tough enough that crashing into a tree at full speed won't hurt, she isn't.
    --[x] Continue dodging. Random directions at random, closely spaced times. If you don't find good obstacles, stay high and take advantage of the extra room that three-dimensional movement provides.
    --[x] Don't go too far; you still need to get back to Rei after she's done with her fight.
    --[x] If the situation calls for it, Starshine can make an excellent area-denial tool, even if you can't aim it directly at Juggernaut.
    -[x] If you get desperate, try Core Purge.
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So a completely and utterly random tangent brought on by my own curiosity but just what in hell was able to kill the original Gabriel? Cause according to her stat sheet
(DECEASED) (Unified Light / False Heaven) Grand Archangel Gabriel

{DECEASED}
Supreme Commander of the Unified Light
The Avatar of Light​
Stats

Health: 750,000
Base Damage: 11,000
Base Resilience: 3000
Magic Modifier: 1,100
Affinity: Light | Hope | Salvation | Revelation
Weapon

Blade of Salvation
Level 55
Attack Per Turn: 18
Affinity: Light | Hope | Salvation | Revelation
Ability: Slash Hell | Unstoppable | Smite | Demonslayer | Tyrantslayer | Devilslayer | Starslayer
Spells
Judgement
Level 50
Base Damage: 15,000
Magic Modifier: 2,500
Affinity: Light | Hope
Ability: Unstoppable | Boost-All | Demonslayer | Tyrantslayer | Devilslayer | Starslayer | Affinity Kill
Abilities
Flight
Level 51
-Archangel Gabriel is capable of flying at 500mph.

High Speed Combat (LVL 6)
-Archangel Gabriel is capable of tracking objects moving up to 540mph.

Avatar of Light
Level N/A
-I am more than just the light... I am Hope incarnate! Heals all Allies to max Health at the start of each turn. All enemies take 50% of their current health in damage at the start of each turn. All affinities of a morally negative alignment are suppressed. All Affinities of a morally Positive alignment gain a 600% increase in all stats. Archangel Gabriel cannot be damaged unless by a Class 5 Demon or Greater. This immunity can be overwhelmed by an offensive power of 15,000 or greater.

Supremacy of the Light
-All it takes to hold back the darkness, is a single spark of light... Spell-based damage heals Archangel Gabriel instead of damaging her. Any Class 3 or lesser demon that enters the same combat zone as Archangel Gabriel is automatically killed.



She was completely immune to spells, auto killed anything lower than a class 4 demon, was immune to the damage from that class 4 unless it exceeded 15,000 damage, halves the health of every enemy combatant every turn, could move and track at 500mph, had 18 attacks per turn, and just about every kind of slayer that would help against the Unified Dark. The only way I could see them winning is if they had an equally overpowered character, (The avatar of dark to her light/the supreme commander of the dark) or they threw every class 4+ demon in the Hope invasion at her at once. If its the latter then we could just drop Fragarachs or if its really bad a Brahmastra on them. The former and we eventually have to fight it which will probably be as the final boss of the retaking of Hope.
 
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nkd1325 said:
She was completely immune to spells, auto killed anything lower than a class 4 demon, was immune to the damage from that class 4 unless it exceeded 15,000 damage, halves the health of every enemy combatant every turn, could move and track at 500mph, had 18 attacks per turn, and just about every kind of slayer that would help against the Unified Dark. The way I could see them winning is if they had an equally overpowered character, (The avatar of dark to her light/the supreme commander of the dark) or they threw every class 4+ demon in the hope invasion at her at once
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And she had killed multiple galaxy scale gods.


The answer though is a combination of extreme exhaustion from killing an endless stream of enemies for a very long time and Magical Girl Bullshit.

One thing to note about her sheet is that she is not immune to Overwhelming Presence.

This means that someone like Sixth Heaven is a massive threat to her, especially when there's also tons of weaker enemies around, because, well.
Overwhelming Presence
-Enemies within range have their actions per turn reduced to 1.
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Yeah. Reduce Gabriel's APT to 1 while she's surrounded by enemies? Not a fun day for her.
 
nkd1325 said:
The way I could see them winning is if they had an equally overpowered character, (The avatar of dark to her light/the supreme commander of the dark) or they threw every class 4+ demon in the hope invasion at her at once
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Numbers is what killed her:
Crystalwatcher said:
I was there at Reluxus and Gabriel's Last Stand. A single battalion of angels facing down a horde of demons dense enough to hide the ground beneath their feet. A literal ocean of hellfire and brimstone charging the Gate. I was the last one through actually: I got to watch as a paltry hundred angels stood alone against damn near the entire Fifth Legion.
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Most of the Fifth Legion might not sound like much until you learn that Hell's Legions aren't a mere five thousand like Romes. We don't know how they originally were but nowadays each Legion clocks in at around three billion demons:
Crystalwatcher said:
ReaperofInterest said:
2: What is the average composition of a Legion nowadays?
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Somewhere close to 3 billion demons apiece. They've been reduced to something like eleven legions from their original twenty one at... crap I can't remember how many.
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Even if Gabriel was killing thousands per second it would still take weeks to make it through them all. Attrition would have killed her long before then.
 
Crystalwatcher said:
Wrong. She's only killed Star-system sized gods. That's what Starslayer lets her cut through. Still impressive for a 'mere' mortal though.
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Huh? But Starslayer's description says that it lets you attack Star Stream affinity gods. That's galactic scale.

Does killing things with Blue and Orange Morality let you attack stuff that has Impossible Morals? Or is the description of Starslayer wrong?
 
UberJJK said:
Most of the Fifth Legion might not sound like much until you learn that Hell's Legions aren't a mere five thousand like Romes. We don't know how they originally were but nowadays each Legion clocks in at around three billion demons:
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of which the vast majority are grunts, who will literally burn to ash if they approach any 2 Angeles. auras hard counter raw numbers, and false heaven has those for days. Granted they may have had enough class 4's and above, but I get the feeling those are fairly rare, they might have actually been drawing the elites from multiple legions to rush her down.

actually, now that I think about it, hope may be why the bigger demons seem somewhat uncommon.
 
random_npc said:
of which the vast majority are grunts, who will literally burn to ash if they approach any 2 Angeles. auras hard counter raw numbers, and false heaven has those for days. Granted they may have had enough class 4's and above, but I get the feeling those are fairly rare, they might have actually been drawing the elites from multiple legions to rush her down.

actually, now that I think about it, hope may be why the bigger demons seem somewhat uncommon.
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Well, one thing to keep in mind.

According to Familiar's timeline post, the Goddess Four split up (with Red and Grey going to the UD) before Gabriel's death.

The Spawn of Mayhem that Red can summon, the middle tier of her three summons, is a class 5 demon. Her lowest tier summon (which could very well be a class 4), she summons a quantity equal to her MM roll (which means an average of 15,000 of them each turn).

And we've got no idea what her strongest type of summon can do.


Think what would happen if while Gabriel was exhausted from endless fighting, Goddess Red, Goddess Grey, or Sixth Heaven showed up.
 
justinkal said:
Huh? But Starslayer's description says that it lets you attack Star Stream affinity gods. That's galactic scale.

Does killing things with Blue and Orange Morality let you attack stuff that has Impossible Morals? Or is the description of Starslayer wrong?
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I think it might have been a failure on my part when Lost was working on the clarifications at the time. When I talk to him next I'll ask him to fix it.
 
Crystalwatcher said:
I think it might have been a failure on my part when Lost was working on the clarifications at the time. When I talk to him next I'll ask him to fix it.
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Well that sure makes a lot more sense.

I knew that Gabriel was supposed to be absurdly badass, but killing galaxies is beyond absurd for a mortal. And it makes the ability name a bit more sensible.


While on this topic though, is there an ability similar to Planet Cracker and Starslayer for bypassing Edge of Mortality? Or is something like Apocalypse + 100,000 Total Damage sufficient for that?
 
justinkal said:
Well, one thing to keep in mind.

According to Familiar's timeline post, the Goddess Four split up (with Red and Grey going to the UD) before Gabriel's death.

The Spawn of Mayhem that Red can summon, the middle tier of her three summons, is a class 5 demon. Her lowest tier summon (which could very well be a class 4), she summons a quantity equal to her MM roll (which means an average of 15,000 of them each turn).

And we've got no idea what her strongest type of summon can do.


Think what would happen if while Gabriel was exhausted from endless fighting, Goddess Red, Goddess Grey, or Sixth Heaven showed up.
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her stuff is distinctive though, we have 100 angles being mobbed by a massive demon horde. That horde would have to have been made up of hells elites unless they where trying to choke them on ash.
 
random_npc said:
her stuff is distinctive though, we have 100 angles being mobbed by a massive demon horde. That horde would have to have been made up of hells elites unless they where trying to choke them on ash.
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I'm saying that Red's middle summon, the kind that destroyed Nepgear's home, is a class 5. That means that the weaker one might be a class 4. If the weaker one is a class 4, then Goddess Red would be able send 15,000 soldiers at Gabriel every 10 seconds.

Goddess Grey has in her favor that she effectively has an Attacks Per Turn of 'more than you' together with the ability to negate enemy attacks at a 1:1 rate. Plus whatever tricks we don't know about yet. Remember that she's the next strongest Magical Girl after Rei and possibly White Soul.

Sixth Heaven is a problem because she negates Gabriel's ability to fly and reduces Gabriel's Attacks Per Turn to a measly 1, which means that it becomes far easier to overwhelm her with sheer numbers.
 
Remember sheer exhaustion is a thing. Just look at the state most of your team is in. After a while that exhaustion starts to add up, and your power begins to wain. Sure, once you get strong enough you could kill demons for days...

But what if they kept coming for months?

As strong as Gabriel was, she was still up against what was left of the force that killed Hope. A force that had done what no one else at the time had believed possible and forced Humanity to retreat. To abandon those still on the other side of the gate to their fate, regardless of what it is. And that is a not inconsiderable amount of power in itself. If only in quantity if nothing else.

Archangle Gabriel died. But when she died, it was a slow thing. She died long, and she died hard. Even now the mere mention of Gabriel's name is enough to strike fear into even a powerful Demon lord's heart. And the mere idea of her coming back would be enough to see another invasion to keep it from happening.
 
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Crystalwatcher said:
Archangle Gabriel died. But when she died, it was a slow thing. She died long, and she died hard. Even now the mere mention of Gabriel's name is enough to strike fear into even a powerful Demon lord's heart. And the mere idea of her coming back would be enough to see another invasion to keep it from happening.
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so we don't have to wory about them letting read bring her back then. Well that's good to know, I was sort of expecting her to be a surprise final boss. But it sounds like the mental scars of having to kill a being of godlike power with numbers, when said being hard counters swarming tactics means they would likely kill red, cost be dammed, if she even tried to raise Gabriel.
 
Crystalwatcher said:
Remember sheer exhaustion is a thing. Just look at the state most of your team is in. After a while that exhaustion starts to add up, and your power begins to wain. Sure, once you get strong enough you could kill demons for days...

But what if they kept coming for months?

As strong as Gabriel was, she was still up against what was left of the force that killed Hope. A force that had done what no one else at the time had believed possible and forced Humanity to retreat. To abandon those still on the other side of the gate to their fate, regardless of what it is. And that is a not inconsiderable amount of power in itself. If only in quantity if nothing else.

Archangle Gabriel died. But when she died, it was a slow thing. She died long, and she died hard. Even now the mere mention of Gabriel's name is enough to strike fear into even a powerful Demon lord's heart. And the mere idea of her coming back would be enough to see another invasion to keep it from happening.
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So...

1)We know hope was a Pyrrhic victory for UD(I assume they were met with massive casualties for it) IIRC
2)We know Gabriel died from the remaining forces from the fall of Hope, roughly an entire legion, (i assume most of it were elites, as the mooks would have been already evaporated from Grey and the endless fighting before, explaining how half of it didn't simply evaporate from Gabriel staring to hard at them)
3)We know they have only Eleven Legion as of now(Instead of Twenty One???) IIRC

Crystalwatcher said:
Somewhere close to 3 billion demons apiece. They've been reduced to something like eleven legions from their original twenty one at... crap I can't remember how many.
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Woah, Hell lost roughly more than half their manpower if we assume the past Legions were bigger than the ones of now.

How much of this attrition is thanks to Hope?
Because there is Pyrrhic Victory and Pyrrhic "The only reason we are winning is because Red jumped ship " Victory.
I have the impression the Hell's Legion are probably scared shitless of going in another meat-grinder like hope while many on the UL(Especially humanity), can't wait for the rematch, "hungry for blood" can't wait-level i mean.
 
random_npc said:
so we don't have to wory about them letting read bring her back then. Well that's good to know, I was sort of expecting her to be a surprise final boss. But it sounds like the mental scars of having to kill a being of godlike power with numbers, when said being hard counters swarming tactics means they would likely kill red, cost be dammed, if she even tried to raise Gabriel.
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Very few people on the UD side can actually tell Red not to do something she wants to do and get away with it.
 
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