LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Fixed the typo. And current health.
Purge is a fairly high level ability and is balanced accordingly.
oh, uh... paging @crystalwatcher wat do?
Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest!
- Thread starter Crystalwatcher
- Start date
- Original
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
Umm. Shit.
Mark Multi-Target as extraneous extra and delete it.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Multi-target is on Aquila's and Shining Key's sheets, and I can't edit those.
Cool, I finally know what to put on Cannon Fodder's Spell. How does "Sacrifice" sound for "auto-kills the caster"?
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Sounds more like a "Kamikaze" type thing to me.
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
- Location
- Earth
I think that Nepgear is smart enough to tell which way to taunt her best; this can go from hurtful comments to just silently ignoring whatever she says.
What I want is to draw out Soul Rend, exactly because White Soul can not morph away after using it. But just in case she is still nimble enough to dodge the follow-up (why should she not be) and I do not want to use Starshine right off the bat, I want to use the Conceptual Language. It is something she can not escape with anything as long as we are close enough; even if there is a Brandcraft barrier she can duck behind, it will still hit her anyway.
What I am doing is maximising the chance of actually killing the girl with my plan. Contingencies to "incapacitate with CL, then splat with PB" are Starshine and Core Purge, just like all the other plans tell to do, in case you have not noticed.
- Location
- Earth
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
She sewed the Radiances together so the two of them died in an agonized embrace, murdered Grey Champion by causing her to rot from the inside out, and killed Silver Hero by getting her impaled on a Hell Beasts horns, all with her own free will.
Even Red Rose agrees the best we can do is put her down before she can hurt anyone else. We can store her body wherever they're keeping Sixth Heaven's.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Aiming to not killer her means you already think she deserves a shot at redemption. I don't.
Good then you agree that vaporizing her is the best option so that we don't have to do this again.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
[x] Naron
Pretty much to make it hit faster. Since I'm not trying to get White Soul to hit Nepgear with Soul Rend she'd have her clone ability active. We know she can create, dismiss, and create clones fast enough to fake teleporting:
I think you are underestimating just how destructive Starshine is. At level 17 each of the four castings deals 38,588 damage. 20,000 damage meanwhile is the point attacks get splash damage from raw power:
Remember this is what Starshine looked like back when it had just 125 Base Damage, Danmaku, and Quadra-Magic:
Well Gehaburn was also in effect but all told this was the Dmage Total of that attack:
Meanwhile Level 17 Starshine has has a Base Damage of 3,508 before anything else. So even without Target: Army going off odds are we're going to glass this entire courtyard.
- Location
- Earth
Actually, my main problem is that I do not want to destroy the place as the first option. To give a quote of my own...
Especially the last line is important here. Roughly 200k damage (or 170k breaking through the target) destroyed everything in three miles.
I am aware this was Uni and not Nepgear shooting, but I am concerned that Starshine could actually bring down a good part of the Necropolis, seeing that it has no range limit like Celestial Severance.
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It's important to remember that Uni's attack was a beam so obviously it's going to over penetrate. Starshine meanwhile is all about the having hundreds of individually targeted balls of death. So the damage is going to be a lot more localized.
Also worth noting that even if we tried we couldn't actually demolish the Necropolis in a single attack since it's got 900k+ health:
Starshine meanwhile, in non-army mode, can only deal out a maximum of 154,352 damage to it. Even if The Insurmountable Gap triggering on White Soul increases the total splash damage to 308,704 it's stlll not enough to bring the Necropolis down around us.
- Location
- Earth
Yes, I figured that there would be less damage to the environment overall... but 300k is still a lot and it leveled up a lot since Nepgear last trained with it. Even just a fourth of it going into the surroundings would be pretty bad.
As for the health, you are somewhat right... but this is for the Necropolis overall. I figure that if we take away a third of it, we probably destroy about a third of the place. Just like people get seriously hurt if you take half of their Health away.
However... following up with Starshine is probably safer overall.
@steamrick @tryrar
I changed the wording of my vote; could you adjust your copies to this:
(Your votes are on page 649)
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You're right, that's a better name. Edited.
The best taunt is nothing, because anything else tells her that we're trying to taunt her. Admittedly, she doesn't know us, so she might assume that we just like taunting our enemies, but foolish people like that don't tend to make it to our level of power.
First, using Soul Rend does not disable Not Truly There; she can still delete bodies. She just can't make new ones. And why does it matter? If the Conceptual Language kills her, it'll do it regardless of her ability to create new clones; if it doesn't, it's either because it doesn't kill her or because she dodges by deleting a nearby body. At which point we're in the situation of needing to blast a distant body after she's used Soul Rend, i.e. exactly the same as the plan without Conceptual Language. The point I was making was that there's absolutely no reason to wait on using the Conceptual Language until after she's used Soul Rend, and the plans are essentially isomorphic since we'd still need to kill both bodies if the Conceptual Language doesn't kill her.
And the glaring flaw in any plan which relies on her using Soul Rend is that she's not an idiot. She knows it makes her vulnerable, she knows it's unlikely to kill us instantly, she knows we have serious ranged firepower. She's not going to cast it while her other body is visible, because if she did we could easily kill her just with the abilities we've already displayed.
She escapes it by (a) not being affected too strongly or (b) deleting the body. The Conceptual Language plan relies on the hope that neither of those is possible; if one of them is, then there's little point to using it since it won't do anything (sure, it might distract her for a second, but that's unlikely to really matter given her power and experience).
I see how you're going for it, but you're making too many assumptions, giving her too much warning, and giving her too much time to get clever ideas. What if it takes six turns for her to decide to use Soul Rend, but only four before she decides to do an end-run on us and kill Insight first? Time is very much not on our side (in three different ways, even), and "wait for Soul Rend" gives her the initiative.
If you think she deserves a chance to atone, or that she's an irredeemable monster for what she did, then you missed the point of what Red Rose said. She's not some simple, relatable disorder like sociopathy or narcissism, or someone driven by ordinary traumas. She's further from the human norm than that. The way she processes the world is different in fundamental ways from how normal people do it, and she cannot be evaluated in the normal framework. If it helps, don't think of her as human. She is, she's well within the limits of ordinary human variation, but most people's intuition is not calibrated for anything very different from either themselves or the local average. (Edited to note: I'm making assumptions here, and maybe wishful thinking because I like abnormal perspectives. Still, this bit is mostly irrelevant, the next paragraph is the important one.)
That said, why should it matter what she deserves? I certainly don't care. The question is the probability that she can become an asset, how likely she would be to remain an asset, how much good she could do, how much harm she would cause if or when things went wrong. If you feel she deserves a chance at whatever you think redemption would be for her, well, put it down in the plus column for making the attempt. But it's hardly the primary concern.
And my vote there is: not at the moment. Too unlikely to work, too risky to try to make it work. I'm happy to talk to her if it doesn't interfere with our combat plans, and I'd be happy to vote for a well-constructed plan which tried to get the Seals (and had contingencies for failure and for her continuing to try to kill us after the Seals are gone), but right now I don't have any promising possibilities.
It has a range limit, or at least a spread limit. See our inability to kill all the Soul Reavers at once (also, we have to see where we're aiming the projectiles). Longer range than CS, though.
Not the whole Necropolis, no. But the part we need to be most worried about is just behind White Soul, the central building which we haven't yet explored and may contain more MGs, and probably a bunch of MG corpses. We don't want to bring that down.
If you're changing it, can you at least include a backup plan for when she refuses to use Soul Rend? Because I don't want to just stand there making fun of her.
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- Location
- Earth
[X] Plan Bluescreen
-[X] Talk her down
-[X] mention that the seal makes sure Red Rose's first Priority will be to Godess Red and not to her.
-[X] that you have been friends to Red Rose, while she only caused her pain
-[X] that you have freed the old guard from Godess Red
-[X] if that fails, proceed with some other plan
-[X] Talk her down
-[X] mention that the seal makes sure Red Rose's first Priority will be to Godess Red and not to her.
-[X] that you have been friends to Red Rose, while she only caused her pain
-[X] that you have freed the old guard from Godess Red
-[X] if that fails, proceed with some other plan
- Location
- Earth
I can do that, even if it will bloat the vote a bit.
Besides, which part of "Nepgear is smart enough to guess what works best to taunt" did you not get? I have not written to make fun of her, but to do whatever angers her the most. The character can gauge that better than I, so I leave it to her.
As for going for Insight... this kind of leaves her open to Red Rose, who stands right next to her. She would also need to get past Nepgear to do that, who would get a free swing... which would force her to delete the copy.
Additionally, the Conceptual Language is not the killing blow; it is meant to incapacitate White Soul so any plan of dodging she might have can not be executed (properly). The killing blow was always meant to be either the Panzer Blade or Starshine, I am just making sure it does kill her.
Anyway, newest version...
A limit of four turns because this should be enough for WS to realise she has to use Soul Rend or we will not go down.
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Creating a copy in a different location and deleting the original is always teleportation. Actually, if I had to guess I'd say that the level of Follow The Waves contributes to how quickly she can create and dismiss clones. If we assume it's one per turn per level, and that "touching distance" is about 2m, then she can achieve a speed of 7m/s by chain-teleporting. Pretty good, but world record sprinters are ~10.5m/s, and I expect many MGs to be significantly faster. In any case, I think the teleportation aspect is more relevant in terms of bypassing obstacles than the speed boost.
It's a rhetorical device. I chose a scenario and phrasing which magnified the absurdity of the situation so as to emphasize the problem. A more realistic example would take more words and get the point across less effectively.
She goes up to the wall, creates a clone on the other side, walks down outside the courtyard, stands outside the passageway, creates a clone between the barriers, wallops Insight while Red Rose is busy holding up the barrier, deletes the clone. (That specific plan has holes, but it demonstrates the principle.)
(1) Okay. I mean, the whole reason it was suggested as a weapon was because it might be able to kill her and it's pretty useless otherwise, but okay.
(2) We've seen her dodging plan. It's "delete the body". Nothing we do can interfere with that (maybe if she were unconscious, but if that happens—with both bodies, otherwise it's meaningless—then we've already won).
(3) The Conceptual Language part contributes nothing to that, it's all on the Soul Rend. And I just explained why she won't let that plan work, though I forgot to mention the other part: Soul Rend is almost certainly incredibly painful; being hit by it will disrupt our plans more than Conceptual Language can disrupt hers without killing her or knocking her out.
Looks better. No worries about bloating the vote, so long as it remains sensible and comprehensible.
- Location
- Earth
Hm... no, I really do not see how anything of that kind would work. Insight is right next to Red Rose, inside the barrier. White Soul would have to bring a clone into the confinement.
I doubt that keeping the second barrier from shrinking takes up that much of RR's attention... so the moment she notices WS is gone or appears in her reach, it means Sudden Death before WS gets to do anything to Insight. Red should be far faster in that regard.
Plus, WS is kind of busy with us right now; in her mind, she can still kill Insight and Sega once she is done with Nepgear.
(She might even go for Sega first if the taunting is what makes her do it... and Sega kind of blocks anything that is not Soul Rend in the same way Ana does)
Um.... no? I suggested it as a means to stun her or knock her out since the very beginning.
As for deleting the body, Ana can just switch tracks and charge the one that remains; after Soul Rend, she can not create a new one and we can fly over ~50m in less than a second. So when the first one is gone, just go for the second.
It being painful... I agree with. However, most of the pain in an attack comes from the damage it does; seeing that Nepgear is still far above her regular Maximum Health (and seeing that the previous damage from WS was not even acknowledged), I suspect it is either dulled or does not happen at all unless she falls beneath that.
If Soul Rend has an additional painful component... well, we are No Longer Human and pretty used to a lot of pain by this point. That might be a small hole in the plan, but just blasting away while she can still dodge has the same due to us not being sure if she can morph out of the way of Starshine.
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
Not to completely derail the current conversation... but...
Anyone want to make a contract with me and become a Magical Girl? /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\
Anyone want to make a contract with me and become a Magical Girl? /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\
- Location
- Earth
That looks... pretty interesting.
Where exactly do we put a sheet when we want to apply?