Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest!

Flight 10 for me. Repeating my list:

Anyway, my priorities:
1) Increase Purifier Beam to 15 (140 xp)
2) Increase Indestructible Core to 10 (290 xp)
3) Increase Starshine to 10 (350 xp)
4) Increase Flight to 10 (350 xp)
5) Get Severace: Echo (250 xp)
6) Get Omni-Caster (????? xp)
7) Increase Celestial Severance to 10 (300 xp)
8) Get Lesser Gods (550 xp)
9) Get Segarite Core (2000 xp)

Note that my list has been edited to avoid spoilers.

My List is:
1) Purifier Beam to 15
2) Flight to 10/15
3) Starshine to 10/15
4) Indestructible Core to 10/15
5) Buy Lesser Gods
6) Celestial Severance to 10
7) Buy Severace: Echo
8) Buy Omni-Caster
9) Buy Segarite Core
 
This is the only part I have an issue with. I'd personally like to get it to level 15, as we would have 4000 health and 1600 Resilience. The latter combined with IC's damage negation means that even without Supremacy Zone's OPness we'd brush off attacks from minor enemies like they weren't even there.
Thing is, 10 to 15 is another 600 xp. We've earned 6,416 xp in total this entire quest. And the list I posted already has a total of 4,230 xp, minimum. 4,650 xp if my "Spend Spend Spend" plan doesn't go through this update.

And remember, I removed stuff from that list due to spoilers.

Honestly, if I could, I'd get everything to level 20, but the xp costs of that is completely bonkers.
 
Oh my. Does it also bypass IC's once per turn stay alive ability?
During the discussion the other day about Existence Bonuses, Crystalwatcher mentioned that almost nothing whatsoever is capable of bypassing Indestructible Core (because super abilities are bullshit like that), although he may have only meant that being able to bypass the "survive with 1 hp" effect is effectively nonexistent.
 
Thing is, 10 to 15 is another 600 xp. We've earned 6,416 xp in total this entire quest. And the list I posted already has a total of 4,230 xp, minimum. 4,650 xp if my "Spend Spend Spend" plan doesn't go through this update.
True. Although if you removed Segarite Core, the cost comes down to 2650! ...that doesn't really sound better, does it? Ugh, I swear, if Segarite Core didn't have it's particular effect, it wouldn't cost half as much as it does. Oh well, at least it covers IC's only realy weakness.
And remember, I removed stuff from that list due to spoilers.
Fair enough.
Honestly, if I could, I'd get everything to level 20, but the xp costs of that is completely bonkers.
Also fair enough.
 
This is the only part I have an issue with. I'd personally like to get it to level 15, as we would have 4000 health and 1600 Resilience. The latter combined with IC's damage negation means that even without Supremacy Zone's OPness we'd brush off attacks from minor enemies like they weren't even there.

Eh. That goal is already well and truly achieved by Level 10 of ICORE. With 3,000 Health and 1,100 Base Resilience Nepgear can no-sell up to 4,070 damage as long as she's at full Health. Given that no-sell level nothing outside high level enemies can scratch her so health loss isn't really an issue.
For reference on what 4k damage means here is a list of the Base Damage of everyone we with sheets on the front pages:
  1. Goddess Gold: 15,000
  2. Red Rose: 2,000
  3. James Robert: 2,500
  4. Jessica Roberts: 250
  5. Michael Rodriguez: 2,500
  6. Richard Nixon: 250
  7. Samuel Balier: 2,500
  8. Lucky Star: 100
  9. Truth: 320
  10. Carnage: 1,000
  11. True Anti-Demon Tank: 2,500
  12. White Knight: 1,500
  13. Judgement Core: 1,021
  14. Empire Legionary: 250
  15. Fairy Battle Mage: 300
  16. War Angel: 1,000
  17. Gabriel: 8,000
  18. Goddess White: 3,000
  19. Solid Drive: 715
  20. Judgement Drive: 17,243
  21. Archangel Michael: 9,000
  22. Dead!Gabriel: 11,000
  23. Hell's Foot Soldiers: 200
  24. Hell's Ground Commanders: 300
  25. Hell Beast: 500
  26. Goddess Grey: 1,000
  27. Black Knight: 5,000
  28. Candy Heart: 300
  29. Maiden of the East: 10,000
  30. Maiden of the West: 500
  31. Angel WEAPON: 5,250
  32. Hero WEAPON: 7,777
Out of 32 characters only nine, bolded for your convenience, have the power to penetrate Nepgear's defenses. Those nine by the way are all very high up in the power list. Of course there are likely more who can breach the 4k barrier with spells but odds are those spells will also breach the 5,560 damage we can no-sell with ICORE 15. Meanwhile from a base damage perspective only two enemies are pushed into the no-sell range (Black Knight and Angel WEAPON) and it's pretty much guaranteed those two have was of hitting above 5.5k damage.
 
(I'm going to put this here for reference, and before I go confusing myself again.)



EXP Voting

-These rules have changed. Follow the conversation following for more.-​
 
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Incidentally Nepgear can still survive this.
Meteor: 200,000 Base Damage, + 2,000 Dice = 202,000 Total Damage
Solid Core: Resilience Negated

202,000 Total End Damage

Indestructible Core: 99% Reduction
No Longer Human: 50% Reduction

1,010 Final End Damage

Solid Core: 2,000 - 1,010 = 990 Health Remaining
(Huh... she scratched you...)
Sure loosing 50.5% of her Max Health isn't great but it's quite survivable, even disregarding the one/turn no-selling of death.
Now I have the image of Nepgear standing in the middle of a massive smoking crater yelling "That all you got?!" to her opponents as they collectively shit themselves.

Or Flying Nepgear. Who straight up doesn't have a fuck to give about whatever damage your dealing.

@crystalwatcher If Nepgear fought in Outer Space would she be permanently invulnerable? The cheese would be delicious.
What do you mean? If your talking intercept, it'd depend on what she was fighting.

During the discussion the other day about Existence Bonuses, Crystalwatcher mentioned that almost nothing whatsoever is capable of bypassing Indestructible Core (because super abilities are bullshit like that), although he may have only meant that being able to bypass the "survive with 1 hp" effect is effectively nonexistent.
I'll write up a data dump for Indestructible Core in a minute.
 
That strikes me as a terrible system. It forces people to either save 100% of XP or spend 100% with no room in between. This is massively worse then our current system. Why would you do this!?
I'm trying to find a more effective system then "Everyone's plans are shot because this vote won"

Should I just leave it as it was, and instead simply give priority to Spending Plans over individual votes?
 
That strikes me as a terrible system. It forces people to either save 100% of XP or spend 100% with no room in between. This is massively worse then our current system. Why would you do this!?
Has this not been how it's already done? There was a bit of an outcry at the last piecemeal EXP spending plan because it kept going and purchased Collateral Damage despite a good chuck of voters wanting to hold off on it.

It probably makes Crystal's job easier if we don't have piles of EXP lying around, it lets him pace the upgrades a bit more. I'm in favor because it improves the chances of spare XP going towards neglected skills. Gotta inch towards the five multiples somehow.
 
Has this not been how it's already done? There was a bit of an outcry at the last piecemeal EXP spending plan because it kept going and purchased Collateral Damage despite a good chuck of voters wanting to hold off on it.

It probably makes Crystal's job easier if we don't have piles of EXP lying around, it lets him pace the upgrades a bit more. I'm in favor because it improves the chances of spare XP going towards neglected skills. Gotta inch towards the five multiples somehow.
You do realize we're planning on increasing those, right?
Would it be simpler if I simply just ignored all other EXP Spending Votes and instead just focused on the Spending Plans instead?

Then just followed this system along those plans?
 
Part of the issue is that you're trying to condense two questions into a single vote: "Spend XP Y/N" and "Spend XP How". That's easy enough to mitigate:

[] [Purchase-YN] Buy things
[] [Purchase-YN] Don't buy anything

[] [Purchase Plan] Buy option A
[] [Purchase Plan] Buy option B
[] [Purchase Plan] Buy option C

This allows users to write votes like "I don't want to purchase anything, but if we end up purchasing something, here's what I'd like purchased".

The next problem is that, because you're voting by line item, if two voting blocs disagree over what plan to follow, you'll end up purchasing the first item from both plans, then the second item from both plans, and so on and so forth. It is extremely easy to see a situation in which this completely fucks up the character's build. To deal with this, I recommend requiring voters to vote by plans, simply not considering any purchase plan that isn't formatted like this:

[] [Purchase Plan] Plan Red Ones Go Faster
-[] Buy option A
-[] Buy option B

[] [Purchase Plan] Plan not enuff dakka
-[] Buy option C
-[] Buy option D

Then you go down the winning plan and purchase things off of it.


edit: note that plan voting requires some special behavior on the part of voters. Only the first definition of a plan counts; plans cannot be redefined, even by their original poster. Further vote blocks are counted as votes for that original definition regardless of their contents. So these three votes:
Person A said:
[] Plan Foo
-[] Do A
-[] Do B
Person A said:
Wait I changed my mind

[] Plan Foo
-[] Do C
-[] Do B
Person B said:
I think we should do this instead

[] Plan Foo
-[] Do C
-[] Do D

Will end up being counted as three votes for the original "Plan Foo", which has "Do A" and "Do B". Changing a plan requires going back and editing it in the first post in which it appears.
 
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I'm trying to find a more effective system then "Everyone's plans are shot because this vote won"
Can you clarify the problem here? Because presumably if the plan won then it's what plurality of people wanted.


As an example of what I mean by this causing problems look at this tally, of just the XP plans since the rest isn't important, from between BROKEN CORE GEAR and SCORPION GEAR:
Vote Tally : Original - Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest! | Page 98 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.3.2

[X] Purchase Core Connection
-[X] Save the remaining 161 XP.
No. of Votes: 26

[X] Plan Radiant
-[X] Reequip: CORE CONNECTION (500 XP)
-[X] Celestial Severance to level 7 (60+500 = 560 XP)
-[X] Core Containment to level 8 (70+560 = 630 XP)
-[X] Save remaining 21 XP
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Plan Upgrade
-[X] Raise Core Containment to level 10 (240 XP)
-[X] Purchase Applied Teachings (240 + 200 = 440 XP)
-[X] Raise Celestial Severance to level 9 (440 + 210 = 650 XP)
No. of Votes: 0

Total No. of Voters: 30


Your system would, assuming you either ignored or we forgot to put in the "stop XP spending here" bit, would result in a minority vote spending XP the majority of people wanted to save.
 
Your system would, assuming you either ignored or we forgot to put in the "stop XP spending here" bit, would result in a minority vote spending XP the majority of people wanted to save.
Point.

So Vebyast's plan would be more for what I'm looking for then, right?

Part of the issue is that you're trying to condense two questions into a single vote: "Spend XP Y/N" and "Spend XP How". That's easy enough to mitigate:

[] [Purchase-YN] Buy things
[] [Purchase-YN] Don't buy anything

[] [Purchase Plan] Buy option A
[] [Purchase Plan] Buy option B
[] [Purchase Plan] Buy option C

This allows users to write votes like "I don't want to purchase anything, but if we end up purchasing something, here's what I'd like purchased".

The next problem is that, because you're voting by line item, if two voting blocs disagree over what plan to follow, you'll end up purchasing the first item from both plans, then the second item from both plans, and so on and so forth. It is extremely easy to see a situation in which this completely fucks up the character's build. To deal with this, I recommend requiring voters to vote by plans, simply not considering any purchase plan that isn't formatted like this:

[] [Purchase Plan] Plan Red Ones Go Faster
-[] Buy option A
-[] Buy option B

[] [Purchase Plan] Plan not enuff dakka
-[] Buy option C
-[] Buy option D

Then you go down the winning plan and purchase things off of it.


edit: note that plan voting requires some special behavior on the part of voters. Only the first definition of a plan counts. Further vote blocks are counted as votes for that original definition regardless of their contents. So these three votes:




Will end up being counted as three votes for the original "Plan Foo", which has "Do A" and "Do B".
Though the "Plan Foo" thing could make it a little awkward.
 
Part of the issue is that you're trying to condense two questions into a single vote: "Spend XP Y/N" and "Spend XP How". That's easy enough to mitigate:

Personally I think there is a very easy answer to this problem. People who spend XP their vote are, by definition, voting to spend XP. So just make it that anyone who isn't voting to spend XP count as a vote against spending XP.

Take our current Tally for example:
Vote Tally : Original - Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest! | Page 346 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.3.2

[x] Hunt down Truth. You haven't seen her or Carnage in a while.
No. of Votes: 29

[X] Visit Rei, San, and Sega. Your sister might need you to help clear some paperwork.
No. of Votes: 29

[X] Plan "Spend Spend Spend"
No. of Votes: 16

[x] Follow Team GEAR. Lucky and Aquila need to get plugged in.
No. of Votes: 11

[X] The base's population is booming. Lets see who all's here.
No. of Votes: 3

[x]plan @UberJJK
No. of Votes: 1

[X] don't spend XP
No. of Votes: 1

[X] No Xp Spending
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Purchase Severance: Echo.
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Plan "Spend Spend Spend"
-[X] Buy Purifier Beam 14 (360 xp)
-[X] Buy Indestructible Core 6 (60 xp)
No. of Votes: 0

Total No. of Voters: 38
There are a total of 38 votes of which 16 are for Plan "Spend Spend Spend" and 1 is for buying Severance Echo. If we assume the remaining 21 are, by default, voting for not spending XP then we get:
[] Save XP - 21
[] Plan "Spend Spend Spend" - 16
[] Purchase: Severance Echo - 1​
which results in no XP being spent this turn.

Now admittedly this system does favor saving XP over spending it by making it the default position but that's not really a bad thing.



The next problem is that, because you're voting by line item, if two voting blocs disagree over what plan to follow, you'll end up purchasing the first item from both plans, then the second item from both plans, and so on and so forth. It is extremely easy to see a situation in which this completely fucks up the character's build. To deal with this, I recommend requiring voters to vote by plans, simply not considering any purchase plan that isn't formatted like this:

[] [Purchase Plan] Plan Red Ones Go Faster
-[] Buy option A
-[] Buy option B

[] [Purchase Plan] Plan not enuff dakka
-[] Buy option C
-[] Buy option D

Then you go down the winning plan and purchase things off of it.
This. 100% this. There is a reason why basically every quest I know of with XP like stuff always requires it's spending be done via plan form like above.

edit: note that plan voting requires some special behavior on the part of voters. Only the first definition of a plan counts; plans cannot be redefined, even by their original poster. Further vote blocks are counted as votes for that original definition regardless of their contents.
Eh. That's not really a great concern. I don't think I've ever seen anyone vote for a Plan while altering it's contents. Whenever someone alters a plan it's always got a name change somehow.

If we take your Foo example then what happens is:

Person A said:
[] Plan Foo
-[] Do A
-[] Do B

Person A said:
Wait I changed my mind
[] Plan Foo V2
-[] Do C
-[] Do B

Person B said:
I think we should do this instead

[] Plan Bob
-[] Do C
-[] Do D
 
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So I'll just require a spending plan from now on in order to migitate confusion on what is being bought and what isn't.

Now admittedly this system does favor saving XP over spending it by making it the default position but that's not really a bad thing.
It could be a bad thing because I'm planning on using some non-canon character as Super Bosses to hide among the mission choices and side-arcs.

I'm not sure how welcoming some of you guys will be of that.
 
would result in kelllogo's vote spending XP the majority of people wanted to save.
:V I see no problem there.

I'm in favor of 'greedy' EXP spending, or at least spending until you run out/hit a 'Don't Spend XP' vote. To clarify, that's an explicit vote with the x'd brackets saying "Save It". Counting people who didn't weigh in on XP as a save vote tilts it too heavily to that position.
 
Isn't them being non-canon but appearing a contradiction?
Yeah, but a lot of them are non-canon because of being over powered.

I was planning on using Magical Girl Charming Beauty as a brutal example of why a character like her wouldn't last in this setting. At all. And she's non-canon.

There's a lot that I liked but don't want to go to waste, despite not really being able to think of a way to canon-ize them.
 
Eh. That's not really a great concern. I don't think I've ever seen anyone vote for a Plan while altering it's contents. Whenever someone alters a plan it's always got a name change somehow.
True.

I'm used to Ignition, which kind of stresses the voting system to its limits. We have very micromanagey votes and many voters prefer to vote for a general plan and stick with it as it evolves over the course of a huge debate. So you'd end up with the advocates for Plan Foo at war with the advocates for Plan Bar, and asking everybody in the Foo camp to re-vote for Foo V2 (and then Foo V3, and Foo V4, and Foo V5, and Foo V6, each slightly different from the previous) would be insane. This quest won't run into that issue; restricting valid line items to predefined buyable shop items generally means that V2 and V3 would be different enough that we'd want people to have to actively consider switching. This quest's situation is further improved by being somewhat slower, meaning that people have time to make that decision; Ignition often has only a day between updates and the discussion moves fast - we average something like 10 pages/day - so some voters don't have time to follow the voting to its conclusion and assign their vote to a proxy that they think will represent them properly.
Now admittedly this system does favor saving XP over spending it by making it the default position but that's not really a bad thing.
Eh, I'm always a little bit iffy about requiring voters to make a decision - there are a lot of times where I don't really care about whether or not we spend XP or how, and assigning my "abstain because I don't care enough to check how this character build is set up" to "don't buy" would really annoy me and might stop me from voting altogether if I don't care that much about the non-purchasing part of the vote. I don't know how much of that is going on right now.
 
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