To clear up some questions from the discord on how the population crisis, the refugees and the drought work with the Econ stat.

First of all, Econ is an abstract measurement of how much spare food you have/how much spare manpower you have. Permanent Econ is how much spare food/manpoower you can produce on a long term basis barring outsider factors while Temp Econ is how much spare food/manpower you have right at the moment. It isn't a representation of how much food you have total, but how much excess food you have.

For the population crisis, the problem is less space as in farm land or places to found new villages, but spare housing in your current settlements. The Arthwyd spent a couple centuries without any major expansions whilst you have building up plenty of population between your relatively low death rate and longer lifespans. This has resulted in things getting cramped and if you hadn't started to recently expand, you would be looking at an overpopulation crisis thanks to the sudden influx of refugees. This is something of an Arthwyd population as other civs haven't built a pop like you have and a civ without your high level of control would have people go out and start their own settlements (something you risk getting in an Overpopulation Crisis). The overpopulation crisis is also unrelated to any food issues as you have enough food to feed everyone with a lack of housing being the problem.

With the refugees, I'm admit I'm not entirely happy with how I did them mechanically or sure on how to portray them. As with many things in this quest, I used PoC as an inspiration so you got lost stability to represent disruption caused by a bunch of outsiders being brought into the community. From there I kind of split as I decided to have it as losing Temp Econ to represent having to feed them followed by regaining that Temp Econ in the following turn to represent a flux of manpower from the integrated refugees (or the descendants of the refugees). You haven't actually seen former bit yet thanks to your Centralisation and Palace Economy as you would have lost a total 11 Temp Econ without it. I'm not too happy about this as I am not sure how to best put the returns on the refugees even if I know that the cost of having them is. If anyone has better suggestions, feel free to pitch them.

On the drought, it relates back to Econ representing spare food rather than total food. Even when you use up food on things like feeding the refugees, you won't necessarily lost Temp Econ if you are efficient enough with your food reserves. So when you don't get Temp Econ regeneration at the end of a Mid Turn/start of a Main Turn, it is because the drought is keeping you from getting enough food to build up an excess. When you lose Temp Econ from the drought, it is because the drought is bad enough that you are having to tap into your food reserves and use enough that they are notably depleted.
Reminder that the QM did comment on the effects of the population crisis before.

Lack of Farmhands probably won't be an issue with a population crisis. Near as I can tell, the -1 Econ from having more Warriors just means more of our manpower is tied up in the military and more of our food production is being diverted to support our military. Not that we produce less food.

We might encounter issues like the Settlements being unplanned expansion(no free Shrine/Trails from Planned Settlements), the settlers settling in other provinces(increasing our minimum centralization requirements due to Early Ancient Palace Economy) or the reduced Social Cohesion from Charitable Haven creating a new Merntir/Maradysh-esque faction of (semi)autonomous Arthrynites.
 
Mate this is mass genocide. Genocide can be achieved by means besides killing and that's recognised by international law.
en.wikipedia.org

Genocide - Wikipedia


This relocation counts as that last bit, and the fact that adults are involved doesn't magically make it any less of a genocide.
Integration still annihilates their culture yes.
I'm looking at whats best for our society, not whats most moral:
-Nothing - The resentment isn't going to go away, it'd just change sides. People had fought the Zarannists, the Zarannists still consider themselves to be right, and the people also consider the Zarannists' war to be in the wrong. Thats going to poison the views of Zaranna's faith and culture in our society, likely to lead to segregation and weakening our social unity.

-Outlaw worship - Good way to drive the devout underground, and since the faith exists outside our borders, its not going to stop existing. Harms even the Zarannists who didn't participate.

-Purge(all the variants) - Nevermind what it does to them, what it does to our reputation and ethics is pretty damned terrible. Never incentivize people to fight to the death against you, and ordering our warriors to kill the already defeated/surrendered sets poor precedents.

-Exile - Well, either they die or you now have an expatriate population that hates your guts and can thrive outside your reach. If you're lucky someone else kills them off and keeps your hands clean. If you aren't, round 2 is a matter of time.

-Relocation - The individuals are dispersed, breaking up their group identity. In a generation there'd be nothing to hate them or their deity for, since they'd be indistinguishable from anyone else.

What matters is:
-Are we telling our people to do things that they shouldn't get used to doing?
-What kind of reputation does this action suggest to our neighbors?
-How likely is it to cause problems in the next three generations?

Relocation passed all three.
Exile and Nothing passes two, but fails on the consequences.
Purge fails all of them.
Outlawing fails reputation and consequences.
 
Integration still annihilates their culture yes.
I'm looking at whats best for our society, not whats most moral:
-Nothing - The resentment isn't going to go away, it'd just change sides. People had fought the Zarannists, the Zarannists still consider themselves to be right, and the people also consider the Zarannists' war to be in the wrong. Thats going to poison the views of Zaranna's faith and culture in our society, likely to lead to segregation and weakening our social unity.

-Outlaw worship - Good way to drive the devout underground, and since the faith exists outside our borders, its not going to stop existing. Harms even the Zarannists who didn't participate.

-Purge(all the variants) - Nevermind what it does to them, what it does to our reputation and ethics is pretty damned terrible. Never incentivize people to fight to the death against you, and ordering our warriors to kill the already defeated/surrendered sets poor precedents.

-Exile - Well, either they die or you now have an expatriate population that hates your guts and can thrive outside your reach. If you're lucky someone else kills them off and keeps your hands clean. If you aren't, round 2 is a matter of time.

-Relocation - The individuals are dispersed, breaking up their group identity. In a generation there'd be nothing to hate them or their deity for, since they'd be indistinguishable from anyone else.

What matters is:
-Are we telling our people to do things that they shouldn't get used to doing?
-What kind of reputation does this action suggest to our neighbors?
-How likely is it to cause problems in the next three generations?

Relocation passed all three.
Exile and Nothing passes two, but fails on the consequences.
Purge fails all of them.
Outlawing fails reputation and consequences.
So I know this might not match 300 words of bullet-point genocide apologia, but I'm gonna keep it simple and say that genocide is unjustifiable on any level, and that includes practical. Genocide will hurt our society more than it'll help it. It is never the correct thing for any civilisation to ever do. I really doubt the GM is running a game whose message is that committing genocide is the optimal path for a civilisation's survival and prosperity.
 
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Integration still annihilates their culture yes.
I'm looking at whats best for our society, not whats most moral:
-Nothing - The resentment isn't going to go away, it'd just change sides. People had fought the Zarannists, the Zarannists still consider themselves to be right, and the people also consider the Zarannists' war to be in the wrong. Thats going to poison the views of Zaranna's faith and culture in our society, likely to lead to segregation and weakening our social unity.

-Outlaw worship - Good way to drive the devout underground, and since the faith exists outside our borders, its not going to stop existing. Harms even the Zarannists who didn't participate.

-Purge(all the variants) - Nevermind what it does to them, what it does to our reputation and ethics is pretty damned terrible. Never incentivize people to fight to the death against you, and ordering our warriors to kill the already defeated/surrendered sets poor precedents.

-Exile - Well, either they die or you now have an expatriate population that hates your guts and can thrive outside your reach. If you're lucky someone else kills them off and keeps your hands clean. If you aren't, round 2 is a matter of time.

-Relocation - The individuals are dispersed, breaking up their group identity. In a generation there'd be nothing to hate them or their deity for, since they'd be indistinguishable from anyone else.

What matters is:
-Are we telling our people to do things that they shouldn't get used to doing?
-What kind of reputation does this action suggest to our neighbors?
-How likely is it to cause problems in the next three generations?

Relocation passed all three.
Exile and Nothing passes two, but fails on the consequences.
Purge fails all of them.
Outlawing fails reputation and consequences.
I would contest the reputation point.

Our neighbours are either Arthrynites who were fighting alongside us during the war(and are arguably part of the same civ, even if they are of different polities), Lowlanders who respect strength and apparently think it's perfectly fine for the strong to do as they wish, and Urth.

Relocation would probably give us the best reputation amongst the Forluc as it'd probably be contextualized as the Arthwyd "enslaving" the weaker Coltyre. Nothing on the other hand? Is a message of weakness(did not crush the weak -> too weak to crush the weaklings). With Exile being stronger(weak-ish for letting them take their kids) than Nothing and the varying degrees of Purge climbing up from there.
Of course, the downside is that the Exile/Purge options also mean a more hardline anti-slaver/anti-attacking-us stance for the Arthwyd that would complicate actual attempts at diplomacy. But reputation-wise? Nothing fails the hardest of them all on account of our neighbours being asshole slavers who think we are demons for having equality as a fundamental part of our laws.

I'd also note that we defeated the Traditionalists by killing their warriors in a war of attrition that lasted until the current point, where they could not muster up enough conscripts to stop our soldiers from just marching into their villages.
They did not surrender. Slavery was-is the hill they chose to die on.

And the remaining Zaradysh invaders(those who weren't enslaved at least) are even fewer in number.
 
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How we decide to handle this situation will affect our civilisation's culture; there is no chance that performing a genocide will result in no change. All of the genocide options will cause extreme problems in the future.

Simply put, if our civilisation believes so strongly in ending the Zarannists that they'd resort to genocide, it means that they've become intolerant enough to gain a value for it. The Arthwyd will believe in the goodness of wiping out cultures and religions. Every single one of our neighbours has a different culture and religion to us, and they can conflict with ours quite strongly at times. Despite that, peaceful coexistence is possible and will be possible even as we increase our contact with them. However, believing that the Arthwyd should wipe them out will play havoc with that. There'll be more internal pressure to war against outsiders, and more peaceful endeavours such as trade, diplomacy, alliance, tech sharing, and, well, peace will become more difficult.

It'll also cause strife, internal culture clash, and very possibly value degradation. Prior to the latest upgrade, Arthryn's blessing was clashing with our Born Equal value for somewhat obvious reasons, and while fissure in that regard was by no means major now, it would've become major given enough time. Genocide will do the same to Charitable Haven. The more violent forms of genocide will make our people more hostile to other cultures and beliefs, probably axing the value entirely. Relocation will instead corrupt it, turning the value into something similar but worse.

We take in refugees and integrate them as a form of good, and in doing so earn kudos from Arthryn, improve our reputation amongst the poor and needy of the world, and gain value in the form of values, ideas, technology, and even heroes (like Arth) from it. Relocation will turn our refugee acceptance into a weapon. It stops being about giving aid and strengthening the community with the value that foreigners bring to the table. It instead becomes a form of pure economic growth and xenophobic erasure. The intellectual fruits and talents of foreigners will be suppressed with intent just as we'd do now with the Zarannists, and in so doing earn the ire of the most powerful god we know of, who also happens to be our own god.

To summarise, genocide in general will hamper our relations with foreigners. Relocation specifically will downgrade (or remove) Charitable Haven, which will anger Arthryn on account of her being half a foreigner who was welcomed into the community without that community trying to erase her people.
 
-Nothing - The resentment isn't going to go away, it'd just change sides. People had fought the Zarannists, the Zarannists still consider themselves to be right, and the people also consider the Zarannists' war to be in the wrong. Thats going to poison the views of Zaranna's faith and culture in our society, likely to lead to segregation and weakening our social unity.
The Zarannists our our (Maradysh) vassals, not within our nation. Our people already consider the Zarannists to be barbarians who attacked us unprovoked, -Nothing- doesn't change that.

Segregation is unlikely, they are too distant from our core territory. Indeed, the majority of our people have only ever met Zarannist(or former Zarannist) refugees (fleeing the lowlands) and likely developed positive relationships with them.
How would -Nothing- weaken our social unity? If any option does that I would expect it to be -Relocation-, which involves the forcing Zarannists to live in our villages. There will be immense resentment at being separated from family members, and probably some refusal to adopt our culture instead of their own.

We can now bless believers with the Blessing of Arthryn, which will increase conversion among the Maradysh. Our victory will also help convert Zarannists as Arthryn has been proven better according to their faith (military strength is valued).
Social issues within the Maradysh will tie them further to us, as Arthrynist Maradysh reject even the non-relgious parts of the Maradysh culture in favour of our own.


If we actively work against one faith, that will set a negative precedent. It is much better to tolerate any and every religion, and apply punishment on secular grounds.
Say if we demand the Traditionalist villages take down their palisades; we should state that as a punishment for their crime of rebellion and not because they don't share our religion.
 
How we decide to handle this situation will affect our civilisation's culture; there is no chance that performing a genocide will result in no change. All of the genocide options will cause extreme problems in the future.

Simply put, if our civilisation believes so strongly in ending the Zarannists that they'd resort to genocide, it means that they've become intolerant enough to gain a value for it. The Arthwyd will believe in the goodness of wiping out cultures and religions. Every single one of our neighbours has a different culture and religion to us, and they can conflict with ours quite strongly at times. Despite that, peaceful coexistence is possible and will be possible even as we increase our contact with them. However, believing that the Arthwyd should wipe them out will play havoc with that. There'll be more internal pressure to war against outsiders, and more peaceful endeavours such as trade, diplomacy, alliance, tech sharing, and, well, peace will become more difficult.

It'll also cause strife, internal culture clash, and very possibly value degradation. Prior to the latest upgrade, Arthryn's blessing was clashing with our Born Equal value for somewhat obvious reasons, and while fissure in that regard was by no means major now, it would've become major given enough time. Genocide will do the same to Charitable Haven. The more violent forms of genocide will make our people more hostile to other cultures and beliefs, probably axing the value entirely. Relocation will instead corrupt it, turning the value into something similar but worse.

We take in refugees and integrate them as a form of good, and in doing so earn kudos from Arthryn, improve our reputation amongst the poor and needy of the world, and gain value in the form of values, ideas, technology, and even heroes (like Arth) from it. Relocation will turn our refugee acceptance into a weapon. It stops being about giving aid and strengthening the community with the value that foreigners bring to the table. It instead becomes a form of pure economic growth and xenophobic erasure. The intellectual fruits and talents of foreigners will be suppressed with intent just as we'd do now with the Zarannists, and in so doing earn the ire of the most powerful god we know of, who also happens to be our own god.

To summarise, genocide in general will hamper our relations with foreigners. Relocation specifically will downgrade (or remove) Charitable Haven, which will anger Arthryn on account of her being half a foreigner who was welcomed into the community without that community trying to erase her people.
The first snuck premise here is that doing Nothing has no impact on our values.

If our civilization decides that the Zaradysh - the people who attacked us because we refused to let the Maradysh own slaves - deserve no punishment? It means they believe the Zaradysh did nothing that was worth punishing.

The Zarannists have taken very clear actions to bring harm and danger to our people as a direct expression of their conflicting beliefs. Allowing them to hold on to these beliefs is exactly the sort of poison that will cause strife, internal culture clash and value degradation.

Born Equal? Obviously not worth fighting for. In fact, all cultures are created equal and we should accommodate the Zarannist desire to own slaves. Their belief in inequality is totally valid guys.
Charitable Haven? Well, clearly there is no need to integrate is there? Let the refugees come and do as they wish. Increase the malus to Social Cohesion, let them change our culture nilly-willy. And why should we listen to the dated practices of the Arthrynite priests anyway? Their agricultural practices aren't inherently more valid than Lowlander farming or village-building, let's abandon them.
Communal Mandate or Sacred Defense? Loyalty to one's people can't be that sacred if a sizeable chunk of our citizens is allowed to (openly)believe that it is Moral and Just for the strong to oppress the weak. Why complain if a weakling gets harmed? They had it coming for sure.

And that's not even considering the factions currently clamouring that we punish all the Zarannists within our borders for violating Arthryn's sacred values. We should do something to address their demand for justice if we want to avoid inter-Arthrynite strife(where the values of protecting the community clash with the value of not causing trouble for the community).

.

When we take in refugees, Relocate is how we integrate them. We even took this a step further by Relocating parts of the refugees all the way to the Merntir so we could "Genocide their Culture" more thoroughly to remove their harmful beliefs.
It already became that "xenophobic erasure and pure economic growth" that you describe when we decided to advertise for more workers and Venerate to Integrate instead of sending Trade Missions down South to help them in their time of need. And you know what? Suppressing their anti-Arthrynite ideas still allowed us to tap their talents and intellectual fruits. Because Arthryn teaches that people are Born Equal and deserve equality of opportunity as long as they do not try to harm their community.
 
If our civilization decides that the Zaradysh - the people who attacked us because we refused to let the Maradysh own slaves - deserve no punishment? It means they believe the Zaradysh did nothing that was worth punishing.
You make a tiny but important mistake here.

It means they believe that the Zaradysh did nothing that is worth further punishment. Most of them got killed, which many people would interpret as punishment.

Edit: Also:
Priests (5) = Mood: Pleased, Ability: Add half of faction power to Mystic, Objective: Complete the Census within 3 Turns, Success/Failure: +2 Temp Econ/-
Elders (2 (3)) = Mood: Uncertain, Ability: Add half of their faction power to another faction, Objective: Build two more Palisades, Success/Failure: +2 Temp Econ/-1 Temp Econ
Warriors (5) = Mood: Pleased, Ability: Add half of faction power to Martial, Objective: Increase Martial within 4 Turns, Success/Failure: +1 Palisade/-
Farmers (1) = Mood: Happy, Ability: Add half of faction power to Econ, Objective: More Farming, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-
Crafters (1) = Mood: Happy, Ability: Add half of faction power to Culture, Objective: Venerate the Goddesses, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-
No factions are clamoring for any kind of Zaradysh punishment.
 
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You make a tiny but important mistake here.

It means they believe that the Zaradysh did nothing that is worth further punishment. Most of them got killed, which many people would interpret as punishment.

Edit: Also:

No factions are clamoring for any kind of Zaradysh punishment.
The ones actively involved in the raids were killed.

Nothing means the ones staying at home tending to the slaves and supporting the war effort would be getting away scot-free.

As for the factions:
That just left the matter of what to do with the Traditionalist rebels and the Zaradysh invaders even if only a few of the latter remained. Some of the Arthwyd advocated for outlawing the worship of Zaranna, denouncing the lowlander goddesses as being too barbaric for civilised people and that the war was all caused by her worshippers.

Others want to just be rid of the Zarannists wholesale, either by exiling them all from Arthwyd or Maradysh territory or by just killing them so they wouldn't present further problems in the future. Another faction was more moderate and rather than punish all of the Zarannists, the Arthwyd should just limit their wrath to what few Zaradysh were left.

And of course, there was the option of not doing anything and just letting business continue as normal.
It's in the update.
 
Nothing means the ones staying at home tending to the slaves and supporting the war effort would be getting away scot-free.

We were dealing with a society where the strong opress the weak. Logically, it can be assumed that they were the ones fighting, because it is in battle that you gain glory. That means that the strong got killed.
So, now your plan is to kill the weak for being opressed.

The ones staying at home were not the ones giving the orders or making the decisions.


Those are not the factions, and it's hardly clamoring. It's just the GM explaining the various options in the text
When the factions want something, it shows up in the faction screen, like this :
Warriors (4) = Mood: Pleased, Ability: Add half of faction power to Martial, Objective: Punish Brianna for her evil, Success/Failure: Free Innovation/-
 
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The vast majority of the Arthwyd aren't going to be particularly bothered by what is done to the Zarannists. The fighting didn't impact them and neither will what is done to them. Any particular desire in regards to their punishment is just a preference that they would like to see happen, but won't be too disappointed if it doesn't happen.
 
I would close the vote now, but it is both close enough and contentious enough that I will leave it open for another hour or so.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 21 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 506-565]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: War

[X][War] Relocate all of the Zarannists.
No. of Votes: 8

[X][War] Nothing.
No. of Votes: 7

[X][War] Outlaw worship of Zaranna.
No. of Votes: 4

[X][War] Exile all of the Zarannists.
No. of Votes: 3

[X][War] Make examples of the remaining Zaradysh.
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Qeqre



——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Merntir

[X][Merntir] She encourage the Merntir to take advantage of Eurwyn's talent to make more magical discoveries.
No. of Votes: 12

[X][Merntir] She stays out of it and let those on the North Coast choose their own priorities.
No. of Votes: 3


Total No. of Voters: 18
 
found the quest recently, I gotta say, I really like how in character no one notices the disconnect of declaring all are equal and calling everyone else barbarians. Especially when they were horrified that another civ had the exact same outlook on everyone not them not being civilized.


On the present vote, their not our people, nor in our nation. Going farther than just winning the war in a nation that is in our sphere seems like the kind of foreign meddling that has a history of having unforeseen effects. so let's just leave it as us putting a faction we like in charge. In my opinion, it's the safe option, Least chance for gain, least chance for blowback.

[X] [War] Nothing.
 
Vote is closed.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 21 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 506-568]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: War

[X][War] Nothing.
No. of Votes: 10

[X][War] Relocate all of the Zarannists.
No. of Votes: 8

[X][War] Outlaw worship of Zaranna.
No. of Votes: 4

[X][War] Exile all of the Zarannists.
No. of Votes: 3

[X][War] Make examples of the remaining Zaradysh.
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Qeqre



——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Merntir

[X][Merntir] She encourage the Merntir to take advantage of Eurwyn's talent to make more magical discoveries.
No. of Votes: 12

[X][Merntir] She stays out of it and let those on the North Coast choose their own priorities.
No. of Votes: 3


Total No. of Voters: 21
 
We were dealing with a society where the strong opress the weak. Logically, it can be assumed that they were the ones fighting, because it is in battle that you gain glory. That means that the strong got killed.
So, now your plan is to kill the weak for being opressed.

The ones staying at home were not the ones giving the orders or making the decisions.
We're looking at those who are strong enough to be free but who, for whatever reason, could not be spared from keeping the slaves oppressed.

So no, we would not be killing the weak for being oppressed. We'd be taking out their slave owners after said slave-owners lost most of their enforcers.

If they were weak and oppressed, they would be slaves. And we're not targeting slaves.
Those are not the factions, and it's hardly clamoring. It's just the GM explaining the various options in the text
When the factions want something, it shows up in the faction screen, like this :
They are factions that are referred to as factions in the text.

That they are not "The" factions in the sense that they swayed the majority of for our political blocs to one specific method of dealing with the Zarannists does mean there aren't factions actively advocating that we kill or exile the Zarannists.

It's a moot point now anyway.
found the quest recently, I gotta say, I really like how in character no one notices the disconnect of declaring all are equal and calling everyone else barbarians. Especially when they were horrified that another civ had the exact same outlook on everyone not them not being civilized.


On the present vote, their not our people, nor in our nation. Going farther than just winning the war in a nation that is in our sphere seems like the kind of foreign meddling that has a history of having unforeseen effects. so let's just leave it as us putting a faction we like in charge. In my opinion, it's the safe option, Least chance for gain, least chance for blowback.
While the choices of a person and the world around them can make a person greater or lesser, everyone is born equal to each other.
Easy answer: Lowlanders become barbarians by performing barbaric practices and because the society in which they grew up is barbaric. Not because they are born lesser.
 
Easy answer: Lowlanders become barbarians by performing barbaric practices and because the society in which they grew up is barbaric. Not because they are born lesser.

That there is a ratalization does not make the juxtaposition of enshrined egalitarianism and a firm unshakable belief that every other culture are simply barbarians. Like, read the bits talking about other other nations who do things differently, its kinda hilariously sneery.
 
That there is a ratalization does not make the juxtaposition of enshrined egalitarianism and a firm unshakable belief that every other culture are simply barbarians. Like, read the bits talking about other other nations who do things differently, its kinda hilariously sneery.
Yes?

Just because there is deep-seated belief that people are born equal does not mean they can't be judgemental towards people with backwards or destructive practices.

One could even make the case to the contrary and assert that, since they are Born Equal, they should've been able to do better. And that the fact that they aren't doing better is the fault of their ancestors for not shaping their culture and environment to better nurture future generations.

High expectations on the individual leading to disappointment when those expectations aren't met leading to lowered expectations for the culture.
 
Yes?

Just because there is deep-seated belief that people are born equal does not mean they can't be judgemental towards people with backwards or destructive practices.

One could even make the case to the contrary and assert that, since they are Born Equal, they should've been able to do better. And that the fact that they aren't doing better is the fault of their ancestors for not shaping their culture and environment to better nurture future generations.

High expectations on the individual leading to disappointment when those expectations aren't met leading to lowered expectations for the culture.

I find your reaction to someone pointing out the unthinking arrogance of the Arthwyd as amusing as their unthinking and bedrock level assumption of superiority.

again, read their reaction to their vassal going with a milita system. It's honestly hilarious how utterly without thought the inherent assumption that its barbarians being dumb is. Just sorta glosses over any possible reason that a milita might be a better fit for their needs.
 
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I find your reaction to someone pointing out the unthinking arrogance of the Arthwyd as amusing as their unthinking and bedrock level assumption of superiority.

again, read their reaction to their vassal going with a milita system. It's honestly hilarious how utterly without thought the inherent assumption that its barbarians being dumb is. Just sorta glosses over any possible reason that a milita might be a better fit for their needs.
The Arthwyd are super arrogant yeah, even if it is mostly well intentioned.

The Arthwyd think that war that isn't done in defense of the People (aka by sacred mandate) is barbaric and stupid, which colors their perceptions on basically everyone around us.
 
The Arthwyd are super arrogant yeah, even if it is mostly well intentioned.

The Arthwyd think that war that isn't done in defense of the People (aka by sacred mandate) is barbaric and stupid, which colors their perceptions on basically everyone around us.

Yeah, their legitimately pretty good as empires go. Their big flaw is arrogance, which has been turned up to 12, but their not a hostile kind of arrogant. It's the kind of invincible arrogance that feels no need to fuck with other powers to justify itself. So its way less destructive than most examples of cultures go that all in on declaring themselves the best.
 
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