Although that does make me wonder, @Oshha could the Fortification policy contribute to the Stone Wall if we started building it or is Stone Wall currently Megaproject-only?

The Fortification Passive Policy would not apply to any Megaprojects and neither would the Infrastructure Passive Policy.

Also, would SEC More Farming with an active Agriculture policy turn the SEC into a MAIN or would it result in a full +7 Temp Econ?

Actions don't get merged with Passive Policies as they are two separate things.
 
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Vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 14 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 348-374]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: Haven

[X][Haven] Coltyre.
No. of Votes: 10

[X][Haven] Forluc.
No. of Votes: 5

[X][Haven] Zaradysh.
No. of Votes: 2



——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Refugee

[X][Refugee] Accept all of the lowlanders. (-1 Stability, +3 Temp Econ next Mid Turn)
No. of Votes: 13

[X][Refugee] Accept some of the lowlanders. (Small chance of stability loss, +1 Temp Econ next Mid Turn)
No. of Votes: 1


Total No. of Voters: 14
 
Just to talk about future priorities but I think we should give the stone wall a miss, at least for now. The things we actually need are the temple and the census, especially the temple since Charitable Haven stands a very good chance of eroding our culture without it. We'll miss out on the martial innovation and that sucks, but this is a classic case of having to choose between the necessary and the shiny, and chasing shinies is the wrong thing to do.
 
Just to talk about future priorities but I think we should give the stone wall a miss, at least for now. The things we actually need are the temple and the census, especially the temple since Charitable Haven stands a very good chance of eroding our culture without it. We'll miss out on the martial innovation and that sucks, but this is a classic case of having to choose between the necessary and the shiny, and chasing shinies is the wrong thing to do.
Instead of the Temple(which also has the issue of being an expensive Megaproject that would deplete our Mystic pool), we could just spam more settlements for a bit. Take advantage of our new Planned Settlements tech to quickly up our Shrine count and anchor our culture via many small boosters instead of a single large unifier.
Getting two of our provinces filled out in this manner could also help us with Megaprojects later on, as we'd get the extra Passive Policy, the 4/4 Mystic pool(enough to chain things like the Temple throughout the Main and Reaction turns), the third SEC action and the provincial action.

That said, while the increase in refugees might strain our culture, I'd be more worried about the malus to social cohesion coming into conflict with Communal Mandate or Sacred Defense. As the latter two kind of make social cohesion a sacred duty.
And a bit further down the line is the interplay between reduced social cohesion and our infrastructure policy spitting out palisades. As putting a wall around a settlement might boost the social cohesion of the settlement while reducing the feelings of kinship to distant Cadlons ruling from a different settlement.
 
Just to talk about future priorities but I think we should give the stone wall a miss, at least for now. The things we actually need are the temple and the census, especially the temple since Charitable Haven stands a very good chance of eroding our culture without it. We'll miss out on the martial innovation and that sucks, but this is a classic case of having to choose between the necessary and the shiny, and chasing shinies is the wrong thing to do.
I would disagree with this.

The integration of refugees has been going perfectly well, it's just the disruption of having so many of them that is causing stability drain. The Temple would be nice of course, and the Census would help with integration on the logistics level, but we need to remember that the Forluc still exist and likely are a far superior military power.

We cannot contest them on an open battlefield (or at least in a long protracted war), but with stone walls we could laugh off any siege and essentially make the Arthwyd/Maradysh immune to raids or offensive pressure. With that in consideration, I would say that immediately going off towards the census would be the shiny in this situation, while the stone wall is the necessity.
 
I also think we should take our momentum to build megaprojects like the Stone Wall and the Census, its very necessary right now. I would say even that its a priority now that we have more people, the Census is a must do asap because it would be more difficult as time goes on and we have more people, and the Stone Wall restores the balance a little in the civ.
 
I also think we should take our momentum to build megaprojects like the Stone Wall and the Census, its very necessary right now. I would say even that its a priority now that we have more people, the Census is a must do asap because it would be more difficult as time goes on and we have more people, and the Stone Wall restores the balance a little in the civ.
The Census would be really useful sure, but I wouldn't say it's a must do. We have to remember that the Arthwyd are still super condensed settlement wise, and it's really hurting our action economy compared to other nearby nations like the Forluc or the Caradysh.

With two more Main Settle actions we can get two more actions and one more passive a turn, which will let us massively ramp up production of things like megaprojects while in general letting us be more flexible with the actions we take every turn.

Plus, now that shrines and trails are integrated into the Settle action, many of my fears with regards to settle spamming have been addressed.
 
Exploration and Trade, comrades. Exploration and Trade.
Study first. We have a bonus towards innovation. And Charitable Haven means people think we are weak, so trying to make contact with everybody and everything via Exploration might not be the greatest idea.
I would disagree with this.

The integration of refugees has been going perfectly well, it's just the disruption of having so many of them that is causing stability drain. The Temple would be nice of course, and the Census would help with integration on the logistics level, but we need to remember that the Forluc still exist and likely are a far superior military power.

We cannot contest them on an open battlefield (or at least in a long protracted war), but with stone walls we could laugh off any siege and essentially make the Arthwyd/Maradysh immune to raids or offensive pressure. With that in consideration, I would say that immediately going off towards the census would be the shiny in this situation, while the stone wall is the necessity.
The Forluc are currently experiencing a plague and have(as far as we know) been assholes to their vassals.

This should table any plans to invade the Arthwyd for a turn or two. Enough for us to probably take advantage(be it settlements, studying Metal&Magic or sending trade missions to the Zaradysh/Coltyre to speed up their recovery and potentially influence them with Arthwyd ideas).

Wouldn't the Stone Wall only cover a single settlement? Seems more like a thing that would strengthen the position of the Cadlon, unless it unlocks stone walls as regular infrastructure/extended projects.
I also think we should take our momentum to build megaprojects like the Stone Wall and the Census, its very necessary right now. I would say even that its a priority now that we have more people, the Census is a must do asap because it would be more difficult as time goes on and we have more people, and the Stone Wall restores the balance a little in the civ.
Having more people might mean more people to count, but it also means more people to do the counting.
 
Study first. We have a bonus towards innovation. And Charitable Haven means people think we are weak, so trying to make contact with everybody and everything via Exploration might not be the greatest idea.

The Forluc are currently experiencing a plague and have(as far as we know) been assholes to their vassals.

This should table any plans to invade the Arthwyd for a turn or two. Enough for us to probably take advantage(be it settlements, studying Metal&Magic or sending trade missions to the Zaradysh/Coltyre to speed up their recovery and potentially influence them with Arthwyd ideas).

Wouldn't the Stone Wall only cover a single settlement? Seems more like a thing that would strengthen the position of the Cadlon, unless it unlocks stone walls as regular infrastructure/extended projects.

Having more people might mean more people to count, but it also means more people to do the counting.
As a general trend, proof of concept megaprojects (such as the Stone Wall or the Temple) become extended projects that can be done in other areas after the megaproject is complete.

My general plan would be to complete the Stone Wall in Greenbay, and then see if we can build one in the Maradysh lands so they can act as a hard point between us and the Caradysh/Forluc. I can't imagine them turning it down either, since it would make them far less susceptible to raids.
 
Wouldn't the Stone Wall only cover a single settlement? Seems more like a thing that would strengthen the position of the Cadlon, unless it unlocks stone walls as regular infrastructure/extended projects.

Some megaprojects are unique buildings, but others are just the first of their kind. The first temple or the first stone wall are impressive and never been seen before which makes them megaprojects, but once the first is build, they become regular infrastructure to be built.

I will also note that other civs are capable of building megaprojects and if an NPC civ builds a megaproject that becomes infrastructure, all other civs (including you guys) lose the ability to build that megaproject due to being beaten to the punch (they will get access to the regular infrastructure). Megaprojects for unique things can always be built as it is unique for that civ (such as a Code of Law or a Census), but there are exceptions to this such as only a single civ could build the unique Grand Arthrynite Temple.
 
Vote is still open for now, but I will close it shortly.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 14 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 348-389]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: Haven

[X][Haven] Coltyre.
No. of Votes: 12

[X][Haven] Forluc.
No. of Votes: 6

[X][Haven] Zaradysh.
No. of Votes: 2



——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Refugee

[X][Refugee] Accept all of the lowlanders. (-1 Stability, +3 Temp Econ next Mid Turn)
No. of Votes: 16

[X][Refugee] Accept some of the lowlanders. (Small chance of stability loss, +1 Temp Econ next Mid Turn)
No. of Votes: 1


Total No. of Voters: 17
 
Study first. We have a bonus towards innovation. And Charitable Haven means people think we are weak, so trying to make contact with everybody and everything via Exploration might not be the greatest idea.
No, we need boats. Which means we need to Explore the coast and sea!

Boats are good civilization.
 
I would disagree with this.

The integration of refugees has been going perfectly well, it's just the disruption of having so many of them that is causing stability drain. The Temple would be nice of course, and the Census would help with integration on the logistics level, but we need to remember that the Forluc still exist and likely are a far superior military power.

We cannot contest them on an open battlefield (or at least in a long protracted war), but with stone walls we could laugh off any siege and essentially make the Arthwyd/Maradysh immune to raids or offensive pressure. With that in consideration, I would say that immediately going off towards the census would be the shiny in this situation, while the stone wall is the necessity.
Just because we've been integrating refugees well doesn't mean that they've had no effect on our culture. It's been very much the exact opposite in fact, as because of them and Charitable Haven we've gained an entirely new Value. Refugees will continue to change our culture into the future, not just in the big ways like with Values but also in smaller, less explicit ways such as shifting our people's opinions on war, like what happened with the Ymaryn.

And the Forluc are not a serious threat. This was something that was addressed two updates ago. In theory, our elites match their's and we have loads of advantages that the Forluc's conquests had none of. In practice, the Caradysh are their enemies just like they're ours, but the Forluc could not defeat them and Urth while we did. And a long protracted war is something that we'd thrive in. The distance between our two civilisations benefits the defending civilisation (which would be us) and the Forluc spending so much of their military on attacking us will weaken their hold on their vassals. A protracted war is perhaps the single best way for the Forluc to collapse themselves.

Walls are entirely unneeded. We are perfectly fine without them. Cultural enforcement is the thing that we're struggling with and that we'll continue to keep struggling, and failing in that endeavour is what ultimately led to the collapse of the Ymaryn. We're following their footsteps in many ways which means it's vital to learn from their mistakes. One of those mistakes was focusing too much on war and not enough on protecting against culture warp.
 
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No, we need boats. Which means we need to Explore the coast and sea!

Boats are good civilization.
While I do not question the wisdom of blessed Uwali, explore might send us into the mountains or forest instead. As the Arthwyd are a nation of proto-earthbending agriculturalists whose first megaproject was a mountain passage.
And the mountains to our east and west have no rivers(that we know of) to sail.

Meanwhile, having an active Study policy while boating might put the innovation roll on figuring out better ways to boat. And with our society's heavy focus on infrastructure? It might even lead to early docks.
Just because we've been integrating refugees well doesn't mean that they've had no effect on our culture. It's been very much the exact opposite in fact, as because of them and Charitable Haven we've gained an entirely new Value. Refugees will continue to change our culture into the future, not just in the big ways like with Values but also in smaller, less explicit ways such as shifting our people's opinions on war, like what happened with the Ymaryn.

And the Forluc are not a serious threat. This was something that was addressed two updates ago. In theory, our elites match their's and we have loads of advantages that the Forluc's conquests had none of. In practice, the Caradysh are their enemies just like they're ours, but the Forluc could not defeat them and Urth while we did. And a long protracted war is something that we'd thrive in. The distance between our two civilisations benefits the defending civilisation (which would be us) and the Forluc spending so much of their military on attacking us will weaken their hold on their vassals. A protracted war is perhaps the single best way for the Forluc to collapse themselves.

Walls are entirely unneeded. We are perfectly fine without them. Cultural enforcement is the thing that we're struggling with and that we'll continue to keep struggling, and failing in that endeavour is what ultimately led to the collapse of the Ymaryn. We're following their footsteps in many ways which means it's vital to learn from their mistakes. One of those mistakes was focusing too much on war and not enough on protecting against culture warp.
Regardless of whether we go Temple or Wall or Census... can we at least agree on first doing some settlement spam to get more shrines up?

Also, it might help slow down the culture shifts if we continued to funnel some of the refugees to the Merntir in the future.
 
Regardless of whether we go Temple or Wall or Census... can we at least agree on first doing some settlement spam to get more shrines up?

Also, it might help slow down the culture shifts if we continued to funnel some of the refugees to the Merntir in the future.
More shrines sounds good. To be honest I'd like the Mystic reward and improving the priests' political power, but given stuff I've said recently it'd be a mite hypocritical if I advocated rushing the temple for their sake. Get the province and shrines first, then the temple.

Continued Merntir funnel sounds good too.
 
I will also note that other civs are capable of building megaprojects and if an NPC civ builds a megaproject that becomes infrastructure, all other civs (including you guys) lose the ability to build that megaproject due to being beaten to the punch (they will get access to the regular infrastructure). Megaprojects for unique things can always be built as it is unique for that civ (such as a Code of Law or a Census), but there are exceptions to this such as only a single civ could build the unique Grand Arthrynite Temple.

Even better. How much better is the first one of a megaproject comparing it with the regular infraestructure? Like say... the wall, are we talking Troy-like level wall better or just a little better? If so we should consider begin to build our non single-civ megaprojects like the wall... better us than our potential enemies.
 
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