Changing Destiny (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Weeeelllll...
From the information available, Hood's '42 refit that she never got? It would have fixed several things, yes. But the golden BB problem...that wouldn't have been fixed properly.
"Location of shell rooms and magazines– This, Hood's "Achilles heel," would not have been fixed. The powder magazines would still have been situated dangerously over the shell rooms. Even with the addition of protection its likely she would have remained vulnerable to similarly armed warships."
So...yeah. Even the type of refit Hood was likely to get wouldn't have really fixed what killed her. It would have improved her, and maybe even improved her deck armor. But it wouldn't have fixed the issue of her powder magazines and shell rooms.
The butterflies man, the butterflies.
On German AP...
That's actually what I meant by 'so much research'. I've been digging through Navweaps and other sources to see how the shells would work. And, theoretically, Scharnhorst's guns could get through even the thickest of Hood's belt (12in at most) at around 20,000 yards. Those guns may have been relatively- relatively -small caliber, but they packed a decent punch. Repulse would have been swiss cheese, if it hadn't been for Hood being the bigger/more prestigious target.
And yes, Hood shouldn't have tempted fate there.
To be fair, there's no 'nearly' here. If Ze Germans got to below 20k yards, even the thickest of Hood's belt could theoretically be penned by those guns. Even the damage that was done here is a wakeup call for sure though, because once the news about Bismarck gets out...
This is accurate, really. German plans are shot to hell to say the least, even if they did better in Norway. Brits have to do a lot of work to get Hood back into action too. Hence, as above:
The butterflies man.
Heh...it is, isn't it?
Ayup. We let the Brits use our drydocks for their warships, even before we joined the war. One of those interesting facts that not a lot of people know about, in all honesty.
Glad it worked, iffy bits aside.
Heh.
Cue utter dread from all the British ship spirits about facing her in battle.
Old Iron
Admiral Unfun
- Location
- The Southwestern Deadlands of America
SO worth the wait as has been stated. Wow. You had me on the edge of my seat with that battle. Really, really well done. And your research clearly shows.
But as awesome and nerve wracking as that battle was, I think the best parts were the reveal about Lütjens and the breakdown of Thompson's issues. Those really hit something. Lütjens on how there is still honor between sailors and how you cannot paint everyone with the same brush. Thompson... just... I'm amazed he's as sane as he is. He really has gone through a lot and he's very fortunate to have those who stand beside him. I realize that even more now.
Also, butterflies?
HISTORY AS WE KNOW IT IS OVER.
Damn fine job. Damn fine.
But as awesome and nerve wracking as that battle was, I think the best parts were the reveal about Lütjens and the breakdown of Thompson's issues. Those really hit something. Lütjens on how there is still honor between sailors and how you cannot paint everyone with the same brush. Thompson... just... I'm amazed he's as sane as he is. He really has gone through a lot and he's very fortunate to have those who stand beside him. I realize that even more now.
Also, butterflies?
HISTORY AS WE KNOW IT IS OVER.
Damn fine job. Damn fine.
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
To be fair the British knew that from the commerce raiding of the Admiral Graf Spee in the South Atlantic and its hunt. German Captain Hans Langsdorff was the textbook example of an honorable foe, both in victory and defeat.SO worth the wait as has been stated. Wow. You had me on the edge of my seat with that battle. Really, really well done. And your research clearly shows.
But as awesome and nerve wracking as that battle was, I think the best parts were the reveal about Lütjens and the breakdown of Thompson's issues. Those really hit something. Lütjens on how there is still honor between sailors and how you cannot paint everyone with the same brush. Thompson... just... I'm amazed he's as sane as he is. He really has gone through a lot and he's very fortunate to have those who stand beside him. I realize that even more now.
Also, butterflies?
HISTORY AS WE KNOW IT IS OVER.
Damn fine job. Damn fine.
- Location
- Australia
Yeah, the butterflies are making OTL history unknowable and everything has changed. But that leaves a often asked question.SO worth the wait as has been stated. Wow. You had me on the edge of my seat with that battle. Really, really well done. And your research clearly shows.
But as awesome and nerve wracking as that battle was, I think the best parts were the reveal about Lütjens and the breakdown of Thompson's issues. Those really hit something. Lütjens on how there is still honor between sailors and how you cannot paint everyone with the same brush. Thompson... just... I'm amazed he's as sane as he is. He really has gone through a lot and he's very fortunate to have those who stand beside him. I realize that even more now.
Also, butterflies?
HISTORY AS WE KNOW IT IS OVER.
Damn fine job. Damn fine.
Something must have happened (or someone spawned) before Thompson arrived, because Thompson is USPACFLT while the British is Home Fleet and these butterflies as way out there, even if Thompson could somehow influence them while two damn oceans away.
So it is most likely that a future!British Admiral was teleported and then influenced the events in Europe, because a future!German Admiral is going to have a lot of problems with the Nazi security services. But that still does not explain Blucher surviving though.
CV12Hornet
Riter.
- Location
- Tacoma, Washington
Uh, one small problem with a Scharnhorst penetrating Hood's main belt: it's sloped at 12 degrees.
Freak shell hit due to wear and improper care of Hood's armor?
CV12Hornet
Riter.
- Location
- Tacoma, Washington
Exactly. I was more questioning the ability of those 11" shells to threaten Hood's main belt.
It probably hit a bad patch of armor plate that the quality control inspectors missed.
Remember that the Hoods belt was outside the hull, like most battleship mind you since only like three classes* had it inside the hull, and she was pushing 20 years which is old for a salt water ship.
Hell, part of her refit was to have her main belt replaced with a new one.
*Littorio, South Dakota, and Iowa class.
And the Nelson, Dunkerque, and Richelieu classes. Littorio had an external spaced belt. The Yamato class had a partially internal belt.
The Iowa and South Dakota classes have essentially identical armor schemes; the Iowa class is basically a South Dakota with longer rifles, more machinery space and a long thin bow added on.
A hypothetical type 3 Kan-Colle remodel of a South Dakota class might well be the Iowa class
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Pretty much... I remember reading a quote somewhere that when comparing the South Dakota and Iowa classes, some people said for what basically amounted to a 6-knot increase in speed, the price of 14,000 tons was very expensive.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
It also gave Iowa the ability to keep pace with destroyers. With the same armor package as the South Dakotas. And better/longer ranged guns. Plus Iowa pushes out a metric fuckton of horsepower, faster acceleration and deceleration.
- Location
- Australia
And operates a literal self-correcting targeting mechanical computer that is miles beyond what the Japanese had.
The Iowas really couldn't keep pace with destroyers with anything like a combat load. Cruisers and carriers yes.
Empty their tanks and magazines, then sure.
The North Carolinas and South Dakotas classes had a similar if not the same system so that's not new.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
Light load is 52,000 tons for an Iowa, with full load being 57,000 tons in WW2.
Light load in the navy is basically the bare minimum what a ship needs to operate. Which basically means guns have a third of the capacity, fuel more or less the same with even the crew being cut down abit to essential personnel. Hell, my grandpa called it ferry load since its in general what the Iowas used if they were moving from one CONUSA port to the next on the same coast, say New York to Norfolk. Or trials.
The Iowas never went into combat like that. For the simple reason that by the time two days are up, probably more like within a day, at flank their be out of fuel.
So while they can do it, in reality they can't. Like saying the M1128 mobile gun Strykers can take out Main battle Tanks (the one with the 105mm) in theory they can but in reality?
Nope.
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obssesednuker
Commander of 10 Million Men
- Location
- In the Kremlin, activating Perimtr.
I have to reiterate that the big thing that is making me wonder is how these alternate events in Europe will impact the upcoming meeting between Molotov and Ribbentrop. Things could get quite dicey for the Allies if the Nazis cancel Barbarossa and try to come to an accord with Stalin. On the other hand, things can get very dicey for the Germans if Hitler decides to go ahead with Barbarossa anyways but the altered naval war means Stalin realizes what is coming and moves to prep the Red Army for it.
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Interesting if the changed circumstances prompted a Soviet intervention in China.
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
The movement of a few ships will probably not raise nearly as many alarms as the movilization of entire armies to his borders and if Stanlin did miss those despite the warnings of his very elaborate intelligence network I think that its safe to say that Barbarossa probably go on.
obssesednuker
Commander of 10 Million Men
- Location
- In the Kremlin, activating Perimtr.
Probably, yes. Although much depends on how various meetings go and information is presented. A major part of a personal letter Hitler sent Stalin as part of the German disinformation campaign was devoted to telling the man the forces along the Soviet border were really training to invade Britain and they would be moved westward in early-July for such an invasion.
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At the very least Yamato at Samar shot as accurate if not better at ranges over 30km than the New Jersey did at Truk. Nagato reputedly was no slouch either. So I'm rather doubtful that the mechanical computer setup was "miles beyond" what the Japanese were bringing to the fight.
Without blind fire radar the Japanese could only do this if the visibility allowed it. But that's because their radar was inferior, not because their computers were somehow inferior.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
The thing that made USN fire computers better than the IJN ones is that the computer and the radar and the rangefinders and the *everything* was all linked together. That was the beauty of the Mark 1 Fire control computer.
The IJN setup had the fire control guys reading off the computer's results down to the gunners instead of the guns automatically getting the update from the computer. The guys on the rangefinder would call the results back into the fire control guys who would then enter that into the computer. And then the cycle repeated.
It is worth noting that Yamato landed multiple hits in very poor weather during the Battle of Samar. There's evidence of this from the accounts of the day saying things like 'Then the Johnston ducked into a squall for cover' or 'hiding behind the waves on approach'. Generally indicates choppy conditions at best.
The IJN did have good coincidence and visual range finders and their crews were skilled in the use of them, where as the USN relied heavily on Mark 1 and as a result had poorer optics. Obviously, in hindsight, the USN was proven to have the better system.
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