- Location
- Canada
AFAIK The most important role of a battleship with early-war AA suite in a carrier group is not quite yet to throw up flak.
It's to distract guys who don't think they can get to the carrier. I.e. draw bombers away from the carriers.
This early in the war the best USN area denial unit is probably USS Wyoming. Sure, it hasn't been FULLY converted yet, but EDIT: Sorry, thought the 1931 refit was was "halfway to the 1944 AA barge"... which it wasn't. Never mind then, best they can do is get North Carolina final shakedown to be from Panama to San Diego, then straight to Hawaii for an AA barge.
Sadly Wyoming is in the Atlantic in 1941, and wasn't sufficiently converted.
What about pilots? How many spare pilots did the IJN carry? Probably more than enough to man their planes, so that's not a problem. But the planes, with a much nastier furball over Pearl? The fighter wings are maimed at least.
SECOND WAKE INITIAL STATE:
Main Citations:
Order of battle of the Attack on Pearl Harbor - Wikipedia
Japanese aircraft carrier Kaga - Wikipedia
Japanese aircraft carrier Hiryū - Wikipedia
USS Saratoga (CV-3) - Wikipedia
USS Enterprise (CV-6) - Wikipedia
OPTIMISTIC FOR IJN:
KAGA: "This increased the flight deck length to 248.55 meters (815 ft 5 in) and raised aircraft capacity to 90 (72 operational and 18 in storage)." And from google: flight deck width 109' 6"
At absolute most 72 planes out of 72 + 8 + 10-12 parts usable after Pearl with Japanese aircraft durability feats and how willing they are to push write-offs over the side instead of striking them below for parts. And assembling a plane from parts while at sea would eat into maintenance of the ready planes, so they'd scrape maybe 3-4 of them together from the parts. Also, the Japanese were terrible about scavenging for parts from damaged planes to keep others flying, so I doubt they'd take from the parts pool to repair otherwise damaged planes. They'd also tend to push those unflyable planes over the side when the USN could have patched them up.
HIRYU: "The carrier's 216.9-meter (711 ft 7 in) flight deck was 27.0 meters (88 ft 6 in) wide"
Absolute most about 60 planes of 64 + 9 usable. Should have about 10 losses from Pearl operation, for about 63 survivors, and operational attrition accounts for a few more, more significant due to smaller carrier with shorter deck being harder to operate on.
REALISTIC:
This is right after Pearl, before there was time to reinforce planes and with IJN stupidity on CAG transfers (barring sunken ships' orphans landing elsewhere)...
KAGA began Pearl with 27x B5N TB (can serve as level bomber with heavy AP bombs), 27x D3A DB (250kg + 2x60kg), 27x A6M
OTL Losses: 5x B5N, 6x D3A, 2x A6M
TTL loss estimate: 10x B5N, 10x D3A, 8x A6M (Trying to wrest air superiority and protect bombers is costly)
HIRYU began Pearl with 18x B5N TB, 17x D3A, 24x A6M
OTL Losses: 2x D3A, 1x A6M
TTL loss estimate: 3x B5N, 5x D3A, 7x A6M (Trying to wrest air superiority and protect bombers is costly)
So we're down to...
KAGA: 17x B5N, 17x D3A, 19x A6M
HIRYU: 15x B5N, 12x D3A, 17x A6M
TOTAL: 32x B5N, 29x D3A, 36x A6M, for 97 planes, not counting operational attrition.
If we count all the spares and such, we can push against operational attrition to APPROX. 35x B5N, 30x D3A, 40x A6M for 105 planes.
A D3A lacks sufficient bomb load to reliably kill a USN carrier with appropriate improved damage control measures. the B5Ns are the real danger... which even an SBD can act as CAP against.
USN:
SARATOGA: Circa 80 planes, OTL 11 F4F-3 + 14 F2A-3 fighters (Wake reinforcement), 43 SBD, 11 TBD.
TTL likely increase in fighters in exchange for SBDs.
ENTERPRISE: Circa 90 planes (by all sources I could find). OTL unknown, similar to SARA
TTL Realistic: 15 F4F-3, 50 SBD, 15 TBD
TTL Ideal: 35 F4F-3, 40 SBD, 15 TBD
WAKE: Circa 10 Fighters.
TOTAL:
160-170 USN planes + 10 Wake Fighters
Worst Composition: 26 + 14 Fighters, 93 SBD, 26 TBD + 10 Wake Fighters
Best Composition: 46 + 14 Fighters, 83 SBD, 26 TBD + 10 Wake Fighters
FIRST ROUND: AIRSPACE, WAKE ISLAND
Each side loses circa 5 fighters at minimum. Circa 5 IJN bombers probably lost.
SECOND ROUND START CONDITIONS:
Fighters: Numerical Parity, IJN Experience Advantage, USN Tactics Advantage, USN Survivability Advantage. USN AA Support. CONCLUSION: USN Slight Advantage, unless USN has optimal build, in which case USN Crushing Advantage.
DB: USN Crushing Advantage, can serve as CAP and slaughter IJN TBs as needed.
TBs: IJN Crushing Advantage, as their torpedoes actually work.
US has est. 155-165 carrier aircraft remaining, IJN has est. 100 carrier aircraft remaining.
*This is assuming the IJN actually spotted a US carrier instead of an oiler like at Coral Sea.
This is a hilarious assertion. The IJN is at best 60% of the US air strength here.
See above. The Weave is here, the USN has at least fighter parity if not overwhelming advantage.
"Win battles before you start them." Applies.
EDIT: My apologies to @SisterJeanne, my estimated 70% chance of USN roflstomping IJN was an understatement now that I have the numbers plotted. Please raise to 75%, or 80% if the sighted "carrier" was an oiler or something.
Last edited:
/SPOILER]
