Likely even worse, as Admiral Nimitz remarked in a 1964 interview.
Changing Destiny (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
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Sire, I corrected your error.
I would ... Well. Let's say this. Nimitz never spoke badly about anyone, if he could at all help it, and was friends with Kimmel.
I suggest you think on what I said, and the likely results.
In essence, my suggestion is Kimmel should have been, as Admiral Hart was, running at war tempo. Meaning the fighter squadrons at Ewa and other Navy fields would have had at least a dawn patrol up, Cats out to sea, destroyers and et al doing distant patrol, etc. ADA manned and ready at 755am, a good hour after first light plus.
"Likely even worse" is... not quite true. And his quote was in response "if Kimmel tried to surge the ships out to sea right before or during the night." MY thought was he started Hart's actions on the same date. There is a major, major difference. Putting aside Richardson was a frigging prophet (and got what prophets too often get), Richardson would most likely have acted as Hart did. It's why I used Hart as the example of the 'correct' action. With planes up and ADA fully manned, at least a large chunk of the destroyers and subs out, maybe even cruisers, the Japanese would have had one hell of a time. Not to mention that the OOD might not have ignored the detected flight.
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I have thought on it, and am still convinced you're working on hindsight/thinking you know better than career officers and being overly harsh on Kimmel . Oh well, I suppose we'll have to disagree.
Edit: It wasn't only Nimitz who thought that way as well-
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Sorry but no. The woman depicted in "the quick and the dead" is a frontier lady, not a high court lady.
It does fit Texas, but not Akatsuki, whose view in what's lady-like is more Yamato Nadeshiko or British Nobility. May be in a few more years, but I don't think I'd want to read about an event that made Akatsuki lose her naiveté. In an emotional sense, guys. Keep your minds out of the gutter!
Yamato Nadeshiko, You mean a Woman of Grace and Character who also would butcher like a Hog anyone stupid enough to Attack her home?
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Yeah, basically Yamato or Fusou.
Although the second part of your statement is covered under the Yamato Damashii category, which is genderless. But it also has Yamato and Fusou as prime examples.
An example of the second, but not the first, would be Hoshou. She's the most glaring example of Traditional Japanese Pre-war Housewife: meek, unheard, unseen, and whose opinions on anything are "whatever my husband says". But mess with Japan in her presence and you will die as if you angered Yamato herself.
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- In the depts of despair.
Thinking about the start of the invasion of Russia which is going to be the assesment the pacific fleet is going to receive? ONI knows how much bad blood is between those two countries and about the border clashes thay had before, plus the fact that the more junior elements of the Japanese Army would love to have a go against them, so a reassement of the likeness of the japanese breaking their treaties will be on the table, at least for a short time. Also there will be a 180° change in how the US will treat soviet naval and merchant assets and the possible interment or asylumn policies.
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I smiled when my friend's wife received a fully functional and sharpened naginata as a wedding gift from her traditional Japanese grandparents. My friend understood the symbolism, because he lived and worked in Japan for several years. His family was totally stumped.
Sakuya's Butler
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Smart/wise friend.
As for his family, just change the phrasing to: "Her daddy sent her a gun in case he tries to hurt her."
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
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1.
Cutes are soothing for the soul. Considering that (in addition to everything else) student teaching is becoming very, very real- I start on Monday, and Friday I go up to prepare with the teacher -it...helps.
2. Which, on a related note, after last night has pretty much destroyed any confidence I had here, I'm seriously contemplating making a discord server for discussing my fics in specific (possibly including history lessons, since I'll be making those during my student teaching anyway) and KC writing in general. Because...yeah.
Not sure how many people would actually use it or be interested in it though.
Cutes are soothing for the soul. Considering that (in addition to everything else) student teaching is becoming very, very real- I start on Monday, and Friday I go up to prepare with the teacher -it...helps.
2. Which, on a related note, after last night has pretty much destroyed any confidence I had here, I'm seriously contemplating making a discord server for discussing my fics in specific (possibly including history lessons, since I'll be making those during my student teaching anyway) and KC writing in general. Because...yeah.
Not sure how many people would actually use it or be interested in it though.
Sir_Gaea
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I don't use discord and would be sad if you left. Also, in regards to yesterday, s/he has been here long enough to pick up on how you feel so was likely trying to get a rise out of you. Honestly, as banal as this is saying is, dot let them win.
Skywalker_T-65
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I wouldn't leave. It would be more along the lines of the already existing Discord stuff I use. A more neutral ground to discuss things. Not post, discuss.
(with the 2k character limit, actually posting things on it is iffy at best)
And it was less that, more that the entire point of the problem- that I had -was missed in favor of 'hey, lets jump on people over Sara again'. Anyone who looks at the thread knows what I mean.
(with the 2k character limit, actually posting things on it is iffy at best)
And it was less that, more that the entire point of the problem- that I had -was missed in favor of 'hey, lets jump on people over Sara again'. Anyone who looks at the thread knows what I mean.
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Hurrah, a well-fed group of shipgirls!
...Wait, what? Uh... okay, guys, time to organize the (vehicle-mounted liquid-fuelled) torches and pitch-forks (read: Harpoons... hey, harpoons are a type of fork, right? So Harpoon missiles qualify for a self-hurling/pitching fork!). Whoever annoyed Sky is our target.
Not really a wise idea.
Sakuya's Butler
A refined Butler to a knife wielding Mistress.
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- ↓, ↘, → + Punch
Who the fuck was dumb and deliberate enough to be an asshole to Sky???
Because fuck that guy, whoever he is.
Sky bullying is for cutes.
Actual bullying brings out the banhammers.
Skywalker_T-65
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Not at all, no.
Hence the reason I'm tempted to do the Discord thing.
Seriously though. I've vented, and may do a Discord thing. No need to do anything else, it'll just cause more problems than it solves.
Sir_Gaea
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Honestly, it was a case about interpretation. Also, I was wrong about what Sky was/is angry about. I think I understand, maybe, but lets leave it at that.
Maybe? Rereading what happened I understand the complaint about one dimensional characters but after that it was vague.
Maybe? Rereading what happened I understand the complaint about one dimensional characters but after that it was vague.
Skywalker_T-65
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If anyone really needs to know, just PM me.
Otherwise, I'm going to try and get some writing done. Considering I am now going to the school tomorrow as well, I have less time than I thought.
Otherwise, I'm going to try and get some writing done. Considering I am now going to the school tomorrow as well, I have less time than I thought.
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May your writing be productive Sky.
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- Mountains of Appalachia
In OTL right now the Japanese already have an observer in Pearl City doing what Jrandom suggested. Takeo Yoshikawa - Wikipedia
Not that anyone in the USN knows that, but it's a safe bet that the reports of 'battleships in harbor, carriers not' are being transmitted to Tokyo right now. Also, it's going to be pretty easy to determine roughly which ships are in port by walking around the establishments that are relieving their crew of their pay and listening to scuttlebut/conversations and makign mental notes of any ship names apparent on uniforms/tattoos.
The problem is that it's impossible to overstate the impact Tsushima had on the IJN's doctrine and plans for Pearl Harbor.
In the Russo-Japanese War Japan was gearing up to fight a larger enemy with more resources and perceived as superior. So they attacked the Russian pacific fleet in Port Arthur as a sneak attack, neutralizing them. The remnants of the Russian navy then had to sail out to engage the IJN at the Decisive Battle off Tsushima, got smashed and sued for peace. This whole sequence was the IJN's crowning moment of awesome and was as foundational to their percieved place in the order of things as Trafalgar was to the Royal Navy.
EDIT-This, BTW is the reason Mikasa was preserved as the only surviving pre-dreadnought, and why the signal for the attack on Pearl Harbor was the Z flag being raised (identical to what Togo used at Tsushima). Same logic that has HMS Victory as a surviving museum ship with a plaque showing where Admiral Nelson was shot on her at Trafalgar, and the "England expects" flag hoist on her.
Any of this sound disturbingly like the script Yamamoto and the rest of the IJN were working off for WWII?
That said, they overlooked the fact that Czarist Russia was weak politically and militarily and had extreme trouble in deploying it's strength at the end of a long logistical train to attack Japan. The USA in 1941...not so much. Once war with the USA was perceived as inevitable, the realization was even if the entire Pacific Fleet was sunk at Pearl, the USN forces in the Atlantic and Caribbean would be untouched and untouchable and would have to be dealt with. Hence the idea of neutralizing what you can, then lure the USN into a decisive battle that would allow you to end the war on your terms. At the time, the plan was viewed as brilliant in the best tradition of Admiral Togo, only later did the flaws in the strategy become apparent.
What Yamamoto realized is that if any war was prolonged, Japan would lose because of the disparity in materiel, and what he misread was the effect of Pearl Harbor on US national unity and morale. Rather than causing a political crisis, like Russia in 1905, it unified America to support the war. Once that happened, Japan was doomed because of the fact that they couldn't knock America out anymore and couldn't win any war of attrition.
EDIT2-To give people an idea of the national mood, in 1944 the Oscar for Best Documentary was given to "With the Marines at Tarawa" which showed some of the assault on Tarawa filmed by combat cameramen, as well as the ghastly aftereffects of the battle, such as dozens of corpses strewn on the beach and floating offshore. Marine recruiting offices reported an increase in volunteers wishing to join when the film was screened in their area.
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Wait, I thought that marine recruitment went down while donations went up?
Do you have a link?
I disagree fully with you. And no, there's no hindsight needed. I've stated over and over again, I don't blame Kimmel for the actual damage, at the moment of the attack. I do blame him for setting up the attacks' success. And why, by comparing his actions with officers who where at the same time, and effectively in similar situations. Again, look at Hart. QED. No need for hindsight, just look at the Pacific and Asiatic fleets, and compare what happened. It's actually a very good comparison, on what I believe Kimmel's true failure was.
I know the analysis you are talking about, and they in essence, assume that it was Ward's alert that was followed. NOT a general "act" as Hart and Hasely both did, as the war began on the moment they got the war warning.
I haven't seen a full reliable analysis of if Kimmel went to full war tempo and deployments. as of the 1st, as Hart did.
You're using quotes from people who were not reacting to what I see as the biggest error. Apples to Oranges, Apples to Oranges.
And again, I disagree with the damage being worse in the sense of the overall damage (it wasn't the loss of the battle line... I agree that in terms of actual war fighting capability, in terms of ships, Pearl was actually a blessing in disguise. It's the loss of the fighters and the morale shock of effectively no damage done to the enemy.), since several flights of fighters would have been in the air to disrupt the first wave, inflicting damage, the Cats would have been partially or fully gone, saving them, some of the destroyers and cruisers gone as well. Quite possibly the BB's out, but frankly, that's a step too far for me to give Kimmel.
Again, you're free to disagree, and support your points, but please, react and respond to the actual points, by using support against my points, not quotes that aren't actually using those. And frankly, my first career required me to judge historical officers, and look at their decisions. Sadly, Mr. Tree and the Air force cut that career short.
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I will admit that I have some serious curiosity about what butterflies pop up for Barbarossa. I remember reading something, (in I believe Hitler's Generals) about how one of the big reasons that Rommel was assigned to North Africa rather than Barbarossa was due to Hitler's paranoia about Rommel's popularity. If Rommel ends up in Russia, I would think that the higher up in OKW (Wehrmacht High Command) would have put a bug in Hitler's ear about letting Guderian go play in the sandbox where he can't annoy people (them and Hitler).