Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
You're just making up a story in your head about this really... What you're describing is something that American protests deal with if they try to go through the formal route of getting a permit and all that (I've listened to many griping organizers back in the day). The USA just has the advantage of un-permitted protests only facing the billy club and not a Kalashnikov.
The thing is that:

1) There is a reason the US does this thing. And it is, indeed, very specifically because the government has an incentive to not allow protests to occur and to have a pretext for cracking down on them if they occur without its permission. The Soviet Union in this timeline has the same incentives, only more so because its political system is more heavily biased against the possibility of genuine mass action by the citizenry as a whole.

2) The USSR, even in this timeline, has a government and power structure that feels considerably more entitled to shoot or jail protestors who try to march without a permit than does the American government. The worst American attitudes towards protestors are probably a lot closer to 'mainstream' by the standards of the USSR's government apparatus, at least in the upper echelons.
 
In light of recent events, let us do a brief review of the past turn's anti-corruption efforts:
- Infra: Dygai removed by vote, Tarasov not yet removed but not long for this world
- LCI: both ministers nuked by the 1st set of anti-corruption rolls for egregious worker abuses
- HI: both ministers nuked by the Red Square incident (caused by the 2nd set of anti-corruption rolls) in combination with the personal assessment of HI

Now, there's a lot to discuss here, but the most important thing is that by purging three sectors in a single turn we have somehow managed to implement both the Fast Course *and* the Comprehensive Course at the same time, through the power of decisive action!
 
It was very much known to Voz, if considered inconsequential, if not even beneficial. Where it would have had a noticeable effect is in projects not funded by the ministry directly but through the the investment funds and the like, and I distinctly remember us fighting against exactly such kinds of projects...
You are misunderstanding the situation here. It's true that Voz fought against private sector growth, and the tooling corruption ring considerably limited access to capital for the private sector. They did so for different reasons. Voz wanted to be the Raja of permits, giving them out in return for political influence. If the private sector was capable of expanding independently without paying tribute to a guy in Moscow first, Voz base of political power would be threatened. The tooling sector didn't give capital to the private sector, mainly because their leadership wasn't integrated into the party scene where you made those deals, not out of some political strategy against the private sector. If the private sector knew how to make backroom deals, they would have been happily integrated into the ring.

The blurb hints at Voz not being actually aware of the extent of corruption:
Automotive industries have been built up for these party friends, constructing a near total empire under the noses of everyone, arguably including Voznesensky.
This is a case of two actors behaving in a similar way for different reasons. The main point is that Voz didn't actually know the extent of corruption in the lower levels, because he didn't bother looking at it. The underlings replicated his efforts at empire building, restricting access to their resources in turn for political support.
 
There is an "arguably" there. My bet is that Voz knew better than most, if not fully - hence Smelyakov having "high cadre-raising ability" in his description - he just also didn't care as long as Smelyakov was loyal/had no other patron to go to.
Obviously the Voz was going to have the best rough guess at the extent of the corruption out of every one in the political system - my point is that there is a good chance Voz himself didn't grasp the true extent of corruption in the ranks below him due to his underlings also creating their corruption rings, which also applies to their subordinates. You essentially have every lower rank of the MKNH also organizing their own corruption rings over their little fiefdoms, with corruption growing beyond the control or knowledge of any one individual inside the system.
 
Obviously the Voz was going to have the best rough guess at the extent of the corruption out of every one in the political system - my point is that there is a good chance Voz himself didn't grasp the true extent of corruption in the ranks below him due to his underlings also creating their corruption rings, which also applies to their subordinates. You essentially have every lower rank of the MKNH also organizing their own corruption rings over their little fiefdoms, with corruption growing beyond the control or knowledge of any one individual inside the system.
Well, obviously no one knew the details of every last favour trade that was going on down to some managers in Kyrgyzstan. But I would argue that Voz's "rough" guesses wouldn't be very rough at all, instead being mostly accurate. Though that doesn't really change the facts that yes, most everyone was doing at least some corruption, and a lot will undoubtedly continue to do so in the future, if less blatantly and empire-building.
 
Well, obviously no one knew the details of every last favour trade that was going on down to some managers in Kyrgyzstan. But I would argue that Voz's "rough" guesses wouldn't be very rough at all, instead being mostly accurate. Though that doesn't really change the facts that yes, most everyone was doing at least some corruption, and a lot will undoubtedly continue to do so in the future, if less blatantly and empire-building.
And I think you are quite mistaken on that point. Voz didn't engage in any effort to actually find out how much corruption was happening - he was categorically uninterested in that topic and preferred looking at spreadsheets from his subordinates. Consequently, he had little understanding of how much the individual steel mill in Moscow or air conditioner plant in the Urals was harmed by day to day corruption, which meant he didn't properly understand the harmful impact on the economic system. Nevermind efforts to limit corruption growth, the Voz regime made no effort to even measure it.
To give a more concrete example of corruption - the modern russian armed forces are heavily impacted by it, especially by corruption growing out of control at the lower levels. It's very likely they lost their black see missile cruiser thanks to that. Anybody in the upper ranks of the black sea command likely knew that "a lot of corruption was happening" (because they engaged in a lot of it) and give you a decently accurate number for the top levels, but they couldn't accurately gauge the impacts of that on the entire system or they wouldn't have sent their flag ship out to be sunk. The lower levels also engage in corruption independently, and they do it with little regard for overall system functionality. And it's these levels that we need also need to root out to get corruption under control.
 
And I think you are quite mistaken on that point. Voz didn't engage in any effort to actually find out how much corruption was happening - he was categorically uninterested in that topic and preferred looking at spreadsheets from his subordinates. Consequently, he had little understanding of how much the individual steel mill in Moscow or air conditioner plant in the Urals was harmed by day to day corruption, which meant he didn't properly understand the harmful impact on the economic system. Nevermind efforts to limit corruption growth, the Voz regime made no effort to even measure it.
Oh, I am sure Voz couldn't really tell how much damage corruption was doing - it's practically impossible to measure in the first place and he was never thinking in such terms anyway - but he had both reason and ability to have mostly accurate information on who is friends with who and what do they control, all to several layers deep into the system. That wouldn't be enough to know all, but it would enough for most.
To give a more concrete example of corruption - the modern russian armed forces are heavily impacted by it, especially by corruption growing out of control at the lower levels. It's very likely they lost their black see missile cruiser thanks to that.
That happened mostly because anti-ship missiles are much better than anti-missile defense systems. Everyone involved could've been the clearest people in the world and it would probably not change a thing.
 
State Consumer Food Champions(Stage 1): The previous state champions of making food directly for the workers' consumption have all performed exceedingly well, but there are many local food goods that have failed to be utilized. Spreading efforts towards including regional foods and bringing them to national distribution will take work on menus and a more complicated logistical chain but it can improve variety in diet and secure a decent portion of profits. These enterprises will effectively be formed as loose conglomerates of smaller businesses, with centralized coordinating bodies driving much of the production and taking a share while lower echelons are organized in a semi-cooperative manner. (609/200 Stage 1 Complete) (409/200 Stage 2 Complete) (209/200 Stage 3 Complete) (-42CI3 Electricity +7 General Labor) (+90 RpY)

Services sector this turn be like

View: https://youtu.be/MPd3_nUnKK8?feature=shared
 
Oh, I am sure Voz couldn't really tell how much damage corruption was doing - it's practically impossible to measure in the first place and he was never thinking in such terms anyway - but he had both reason and ability to have mostly accurate information on who is friends with who and what do they control, all to several layers deep into the system. That wouldn't be enough to know all, but it would enough for most.
What motivation would that be? He didn't actually interact with the lower ranking people aside from promotions, why should he keep lists on every bodies connections two or more ranks below him?
That happened mostly because anti-ship missiles are much better than anti-missile defense systems. Everyone involved could've been the clearest people in the world and it would probably not change a thing.
No, corruption likely played a large role in that. According to reporting, the crew pulled out encrypted radios and sold those, replacing them with commercial ones. The contract for maintaining the anti-aircraft missile systems were awarded to a not list approved company which never worked with advanced electronics. Aside from a bunch of other systems just simply not being maintained thanks to corruption.
It's hard to say exactly what the decisive factor was, but it's hard to image a company who never worked with advanced electronics properly maintaining the aircraft defence system. And it's hard for me to imagine that didn't have any impact on the ship surviving.
 
Also that's damn near the ideal outcome for a protest. Again if you compare this to the average civil rights march from earlier in the decade we have a lot of restraint.
 
What motivation would that be? He didn't actually interact with the lower ranking people aside from promotions, why should he keep lists on every bodies connections two or more ranks below him?
He was a paranoid bastard that tracked people's connections much more than reasonable, wanted his personal attention on as much things as possible and was spiteful enough to sink not only people who displeased him, but also everyone who was involved with them.
 
He was a paranoid bastard that tracked people's connections much more than reasonable, wanted his personal attention on as much things as possible and was spiteful enough to sink not only people who displeased him, but also everyone who was involved with them.
In such a case, he would simply just investigate the connections of lower ranking officials when they displeased him and also throw those out, rather than going to the effort of maintaining an analogue version of facebook for corrupt partnerships.
 
In such a case, he would simply just investigate the connections of lower ranking officials when they displeased him and also throw those out, rather than going to the effort of maintaining an analogue version of facebook for corrupt partnerships.
Maybe if he wasn't as paranoid and workaholic as he was. But since he was, he did go to the effort to track things so no one would plot against him and his. Shame it was all burned in his purge of the archives, really.
 
Maybe if he wasn't as paranoid and workaholic as he was. But since he was, he did go to the effort to track things so no one would plot against him and his. Shame it was all burned in his purge of the archives, really.
I think he probably kept track of a lot of people up to the middling levels of the economy due to the reasons you mentioned, though his information on them would be limited. There is only so much you can actually learn about all the people under you and their illegal dealings when you sit on top of the soviet bureaucratic apparatus, especially when you also need to spend time making the numbers go up and yell at your SupSov faction. His files likely contained a lot on the higher-level stuff, especially useable for blackmail, but it was nowhere close to a full picture of corruption in the soviet economy.
 
I think he probably kept track of a lot of people up to the middling levels of the economy due to the reasons you mentioned, though his information on them would be limited. There is only so much you can actually learn about all the people under you and their illegal dealings when you sit on top of the soviet bureaucratic apparatus, especially when you also need to spend time making the numbers go up and yell at your SupSov faction. His files likely contained a lot on the higher-level stuff, especially useable for blackmail, but it was nowhere close to a full picture of corruption in the soviet economy.
Well, at this point, I suppose there isn't really a way to tell how deeply Voz dug in and how clear a picture he built from what he found.

Anyway, twelve hours have passed, so let's start with the voting.
[X]Revive Old Cadre Programs
[X]Go With Abramov's Man
[]Compromise with Kosygin


I am still unsure about the LCI deputy pick - I do want to go with Mikhailov, but my head is telling me that Shulyakov is probably better in the current political situation. I welcome any and all thoughts and discussion on the subject.
 
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[X]Revive Old Cadre Programs
[X]Promote the Smolensk Minister

We need more women in govt, we don't have any allies in the ministry so we should get started on that and having two deputies be women named Lidia that have soft sciences degree is funni. Also, she might be the first person to actually do market research on what consumers want which would be very nice.
 
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Police units involved in the actual crisis temporarily took the lead of army units trickling in, advocating for positioning and containing the protest to the other bank of the river, away from important government functions.

This was probably the decisive moment. The poor capabilities of armies in dealing with crowd control is why police forces were invented, but so often in confusion around a major unexpected protest army officers don't defer to mere civilians.

The Luna program has taken advantage of the higher energy RLA third stage and achieved what was never achieved before. Using a bulky four ton landing stage with an automated ranging system to the moon along with a radar altimeter a massive system has been put onto the surface of the moon with a communications line groundside and a set of television cameras on the probe, both for broadcasting purposes and for the analysis of soils. Important compositional information about the regolith has been broadcast to earth along with the first images of another world. It may be an eerie gray landscape with very little on it and a view of the earth as a fuzzy blue marble, but the broadcast has been watched by tens of millions of Soviet workers and even more across the globe. Subsequent landings are expected to provide more information on sampling, with a plan that is beyond current funding constraints of building a communications network for operations around the moon.

Earthrise moment unlocked!

And in general all of the probe programs are repaying our confidence in them. Which is really awesome. The space program needed the prestige. And by gum, the sophistication of the Luna and Mars probes is impressive. Well beyond what any space probes were doing in the 60s in OTL.

The results of the bread program have been generally poor, while offering free bread in cities was considered to improve productivity and food security, it has not been effective for either. Excessive licensing requirements and proof of address along with administration of who eats the bread has ended up costing more than the program has distributed. Costs have been made worse by the small kiosks that were set up requiring a further commitment of funding making the program generally inefficient compared to other more worker centric aid. Over the next year it is expected that worker canteen funding will be increased to compensate and offer a more varied diet then just grain based foods while simultaneously a further food program is to be evaluated in order to better address the issue without a massive buildup of new infrastructure.

Hah. I see. The free bread program was done in the most ass backwards way imaginable... Rather than distributing the bread at existing outlets, Voz was making a whole new distribution network and had people filling out a telephone book worth of paperwork to collect their loaves.

Subsidized food will be SO much more efficient than this.

I guess a higher roll here would have led to Voz making a more sensible food distribution program?

That's not bad for 60ths era Russia?

I mean, it sounds like there was some more violence between there lines, but all in all this could have gone full Tiananmen Square and it didn't and there was even some political reaction, so I guess it counts as a good outcome.

Heck, there have been protests that were handled worse in Britain in recent years.

Obviously the Voz was going to have the best rough guess at the extent of the corruption out of every one in the political system - my point is that there is a good chance Voz himself didn't grasp the true extent of corruption in the ranks below him due to his underlings also creating their corruption rings, which also applies to their subordinates. You essentially have every lower rank of the MKNH also organizing their own corruption rings over their little fiefdoms, with corruption growing beyond the control or knowledge of any one individual inside the system.

I suspect that Voz likely new in a general sense, though I doubt he knew the specifics. Underlings who created strong rings of corruption and who scratched his back when he scratched theirs is how the patronage system is supposed to work. An underling who had less back-scratching power would therefor be less desirable to Voz, so long as they weren't too ambitious that they might be ungrateful.

________

With regards to the voting options...

[]Maximally Exploit the Openings: The mass of openings in the most important sector has opened a nearly unheard of political opportunity as long as strong investment can be continued. Advancing new personnel that are untainted by either corruption or excesses can serve to improve productivity, reduce labor violations, and consolidate control over the ministry. Taking every opportunity to push personnel will come at a constant political cost and there will be compromises on who is moved in, but the ministry needs to be able to eventually stand on its own.

[]Revive Old Cadre Programs: Voznesensky made many mistakes, but the underutilized massive graduation programs that have been partially subsidized by the Ministry along with the hiring of new personnel has proven invaluable for producing those unclaimed by any other center of power. Taking these same people under the wing of the ministry will involve far more students in politics than is sensible but they can be sent to do the harshest work under moderate supervision, and a capable new crop of politicians can be made. A greater focus will be placed on fighting for lower level posts instead of those above, helping in the next decade but offering no immediate help.

[]Propose Neutral Promotions: The political fire around the heavy industrial ministry is too much to get involved with. Choosing to ignore it and proposing comparatively apolitical promotions will ensure that major amounts of influence are not consumed on useless arguments. A program focused on the consolidation of other sectors will be prioritized, leaving the politicians to fight over heavy industry. The limited political capital the ministry does have can instead be spent on secondary sectors considered to be less important, going far further but having far less monetary access.

Maximally exploiting the opportunity would not only cost political capital, it is also the most Vozzy move possible, at a time when Voz is the scapegoat of all that's wrong with the system (as we saw during the wage reforms). A trap option.

I favor reviving the old cadres - the youngsters Klimenko brings in may well be his undoing as the students ultimately weakened Voz. However, providing opportunities to the youf is what is best for the long-run goal of unborking the system and keeping it unborked. Also, since this option aims at getting people into the lower ranks, the political cost should be low. Let others argue about who should be highly ranked managers.

But staying neutral with the troika as it is probably fine as well.

[]Go With Abramov's Man: Ilya Pavlovich Shulyakov: An industrial engineer that has taken charge over the consumer industry across South Moscow and is both boring and unexceptional. Shulyakov has delivered acceptable and consistent performance along with having a nonexistent history of labor abuses. He is practically Abramov's seat on the regional development committee and has served to improve local production and accelerate the development of the technical industries around Moscow. Shulyakov is also experienced in management on the same level and would represent the most experienced deputy choice, providing a solid basis for later consolidation. (Gets A Favor)

[]Compromise with Kosygin: Alexander Evgenievich Mikhailov: A conventional chemical engineer that has served to develop the petrochemical industry around Tyumen and served to improve local production. He is both unrelated to the old Malenkov era corruption ring and the more modern Voznesesnky one. Far more of Koysgin's political ally than anyone else he has served to boost local delegates to the Supreme Soviet and improved regional development in excess of expectations heading local plastics production and associated commercial industry. His ascension would drive a large-scale focus towards improving the plastics and general petrochemical industry, adapting oil into higher value goods. (Gets A Favor)

[]Promote the Smolensk Minister: Lidia Pavlovna Lykova: Bringing an experienced party career along with a graduate degree in Social Sciences Lykova can help to minimize the previous excesses. Consumer production involves a comprehension of consumers and the need to liaise with a massive number of mixed sector interests, favoring social skills over technical skills. While this makes her under qualified as a primary minister, she is more than adequate as a deputy and can serve to assist the sector in not repeating any of the previous mistakes. She is also a dependable ally from the Smolensk regional committee and while taking charge of managing development has served more than adequately.

So, Shulyakov's experience with technical industries would make him a good pick for pushing forward our high tech industries. Also, if he were promoted quickly, it sounds like he is the candidate best qualified to run the department in the near future.

Mikhailov sounds like the man to push forward our consumer products industries and to turn our cheap oil into less cheap plastic products. Not a bad pick considering that we will be drowning in oil as we extract gas to keep up with electricity demand...

But ultimately, both of these fellows come with a serious downside - they are all about solving the problems of the ordinary worker with more stuff. But that's what the system as a whole excels at. They aren't game changers and the system is in urgent need of its weaknesses being addressed, not its strengths further strengthened. But balancing that out, both men get us a political favour which is a useful thing for a minister with a tenuous political position.

However, Lykova IS a game changer. Looking at light industry with an eye to what workers actually want?! Madness! And madness which we urgently need. The needs of the workers are not simply a matter of material goods in, happy workers out. I think we should consider her very strongly, even though she does not bring us any favours from more powerful players in the SupSov. If Shulyakov is the man who may give us more transistors and Mikhailov is the man who may give us more plastic toys, Lykova is the woman who might give us the transistors that industry actually needs and the plastic toys that children actually want to play with.

She also would be an ally, but I consider that of low importance. What Klimenko needs most of all is people who can help him do a difficult job.

[X]Revive Old Cadre Programs
[X]Promote the Smolensk Minister

Regards,

fasquardon
 
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[X]Revive Old Cadre Programs
[X]Go With Abramov's Man

Personally i don't see what Kos could offer us with a favour other than a loan as his main power base is the minfin and any loan we are going to take now is going to make a loan if we want one (i do) for the next plan that much harder to get. I get the appeal for the Smolensk minister but she has zero credentials for this other than Klim liking her so IMO we might as well pick someone competent in part of this field and get a favour with Abramov that we could use for something like a comprehensive rural reform (the thing people seem to want to do).
 
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