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popular support and rural support?
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
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Seems to me that backing the SOE's would get us more political support, from the people that, you know, actually have political influence in our system.
Red Rationalist
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No, that isn't the case. The managers of SOE don't form much of a voting block and aren't politically favoured by the agricultural areas.
Managers of SOEs are literally the primary economic movers in our voting pool. The Soviet Union doesn't let everybody vote (in the elections that actually matter), only Party members get that privilege. And the overwhelming majority of random small farmers are not Party members and don't know any Party members, while SOE managers are universally Party members who are friends with many more Party members. Supporting the enterprises is outright stated to be the politically popular option in Klimenko's narration.
Now, politically popular within the Party and popularly popular amongst the teeming masses are different things. Supporting small farmers would definitely endear more of them to the government. But that's not the same thing as generating a voting base to elect friendly Party members to higher offices.
Now, politically popular within the Party and popularly popular amongst the teeming masses are different things. Supporting small farmers would definitely endear more of them to the government. But that's not the same thing as generating a voting base to elect friendly Party members to higher offices.
You are right that the SOE's aren't favoured by the agricultural areas luckily those areas don't have much political power whereas the SOE's have much support from the core where almost all the political power lies and while they may not be the biggest voting block they are still a substantial lobby force that will be immensely useful when we next plan have to "fix" agriculture.
With that said though i want to support the small farmers it is only insurance and seems to be the human thing to just give it to them for the cost of pissing of some agri SOE's.
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Red Rationalist
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The managers aren't the only party members in rural areas. You also have a sizeable number of them in the administration, who aren't positively disposed to the SOE's. The description on agriculture is very explicitly that consoldiation will make us lose out on a rural support base.
Consolidation is popular among mangers, but unpopular in the broader party and especially among Kosgynites.
SOE managers aren't the only ones in the party with opinions on agriculture. And no, consolidation doesn't have broad support, Kosgyn and his pretty large faction are for modernizing the private farms.
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Wait, what?!! We have cancelled the moon landing? No more manned landing? So we will lose to America when they send Armstrong to the moon? Why? I thought we had a good chance of winning the race.
Among last orders of Voz was the cancellation of moonshot because there was no guarantee that we'd be first, and it'd have faced delays.
Another thing to blame him for, I guess.
After multiple bad rolls we had no shot at winning unless the Americans got similarly terrible rolls, and chose to just cut our losses instead of setting more money on fire to probably lose anyways - potentially after getting a bunch of cosmonauts killed to boot.
Also, the Americans are very possibly not sending anybody to the Moon either, enthusiasm on both sides has been massively lower TTL. They never got a big NASA or Kennedy martyrdom, the American space program is an offshoot of the military missile program and has been running on significantly tighter budgets than they ever got in the 1960s historically. Apollo straight up isn't happening, if they went to the Moon at all it would be on a shitty Gemini derivative that has significant odds of just killing the astronauts instead of working.
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Having to cancel the RLA-5 is one thing that really makes me ANGRY. In exchange for saving a measly 5 resources per turn, we're taking gigantic hits to our lift capacity (about 40 tons for RLA 3 vs 72 for RLA-5). Other than that, there's no good option: We either cancel orbital docking systems which damages our space station ambitions, or we cancel atmospheric data satellites totally- fuck, why does everyone want to cut those back?
The main difference between []Rationalize the Cutbacks and []Prioritize Unmanned Programs is whether we kill FGB or Luna. I'm leaning towards the former but I'm not sure.
EDIT: Dang I can't choose whether to yeet Dygai or Smelyakov. If Klim's right Tarasov is not actually a good replacement for the former, while the latter is basically Voznesensky's number two in driving corruption. Yet, kicking him out will also set heavy industry on fire. Well, hopefully we can take a few turns of no new steel...
The main difference between []Rationalize the Cutbacks and []Prioritize Unmanned Programs is whether we kill FGB or Luna. I'm leaning towards the former but I'm not sure.
The Voz cancelling the moon program and then immediately getting yeeted for being a corrupt STEMlord was not good timing. Whoopsies.
EDIT: Dang I can't choose whether to yeet Dygai or Smelyakov. If Klim's right Tarasov is not actually a good replacement for the former, while the latter is basically Voznesensky's number two in driving corruption. Yet, kicking him out will also set heavy industry on fire. Well, hopefully we can take a few turns of no new steel...
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We are running short on labor anyway, as of last turn, so in terms of running the ministry I think the best choice is backing the SOEs to increase the pace of urbanisation. Plus, Masherov's star appears to be on the rise and Kosgyn's is waning, so backing Masherov will get us the right friends, as well as more friends.
Also we should absolutely save the weather satellites, those are a MUST have whereas a space station is a would-be-nice. I am learning towards rationalising though I think.
Also we should absolutely save the weather satellites, those are a MUST have whereas a space station is a would-be-nice. I am learning towards rationalising though I think.
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- Location
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After decades of holding out against Stalinism, I see the Threadviet is finally coming around to screwing over the rural small folk in favor of large state-owned operations to solve the labor crisis. Perhaps Koba will bless us with more critwins if that plan wins... I'm inclined to either back the small farmers, or []Do Nothing and just accept the shitty outcome of the roll.
Were you not reading recent turns? Our dice for the actual moonshot have been apocalyptically bad.
Red Rationalist
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Urbanization will happen at a similar pace regardless of our choices. Ensuring the small producers modernize will cut down on agricultural labour employed, just as if they close down.
I don't think there is any shot of us making friends with Masherov, we compete for the progressive base and they dislike Abramovites. It's usually one of the smaller wings that gets pushed out of the troika, so either Abramov or Masherov.
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If farms (not just smallholders, but SoEs would have access to this too) get insurance that allows them to take a risk and mechanize and use pesticides/fertilizers, it will reduce labor use as well. They will also consolidate, which will give us labor too. Muscling the private sector off crop insurance is also a big plus, insurance is a big and profitable business after all.
Its also worth noting that next plan will have us endure a budget cut, that means we will complete less projects per annum so the tightening of the labor market will be less of an issue as well presumably. I suspect we might encounter the opposite issue we are having now at some point in that plan for that matter.
Its also worth noting that next plan will have us endure a budget cut, that means we will complete less projects per annum so the tightening of the labor market will be less of an issue as well presumably. I suspect we might encounter the opposite issue we are having now at some point in that plan for that matter.
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DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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I am just ensure why people believe having a bunch of big private landowners eventually is better than just having agri state enterprises that are kinda sorta run cooperatively? The private owners in this case wouldn't be co-ops but the most successful and exploitative of the bourgeois.
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I am sure those projects will draw in some labor, but the decrease in housing dice, and the end of the giant urban renovation projects will probably mean an overall decrease in labor employed in construction. Roads and canal building don't take nearly the same amount of labor than building highrises and buildings I am pretty sure.
Red Rationalist
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State enterprise aren't run cooperatively, private (non-party controlled) farms are.
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I mean, the SoEs are the big agri businesses employing extremely low wage migrant labor and have the cover of the state. Frankly I expect they are a lot more exploitative than family run farms, which are the majority of small holders, co-op or not. This also has the plus of us making private insurance companies take an L. I would much rather have the state fuck over an insurance company than a small family owned farm.
MordredRaal
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My main focus is that we should retire Dygai. He may be less dangerous, but he is the guy people actually want out. And the priority of our anti corruption efforts should go after who pissed off people the most.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
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Modern construction relies more on machinery than pure labor, the time of shock labor brigades is over.
In any case, I just don't think it's necessary for us to get involved by picking a side in this fight and spend precious political capital. Thread wanted to build more roads anyway, and that's already a boon to the private farms. They're going to consolidate anyway and the SOE's will always have the advantage there, even if we were to pass the pro-small farms measures here.
In any case, I just don't think it's necessary for us to get involved by picking a side in this fight and spend precious political capital. Thread wanted to build more roads anyway, and that's already a boon to the private farms. They're going to consolidate anyway and the SOE's will always have the advantage there, even if we were to pass the pro-small farms measures here.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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Where are you getting this from? While there might be a few private co op among the private farmers I doubt they are anywhere near the majority.
I disagree with this as while nobody likes Dygai that also means that he can be retired whenever we want whereas Smelyakov seems to have a political basis to stand on which means that if he he doesn't get wacked immediatly he might be able to put up some resistance if fervor decreases or we get a critfail and quickly gets hit by backlash.
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Yeah, Dygai is the face of urban renovation projects, so having him out is the priority imo. Especially since Klimenko has experience in the sector as you can see here:
So his general lack of managerial experience should be counteracted somewhat by that both mechanically and narratively.