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- UTC+0
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Chad Voz vs Virgin Aristovite
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
- Start date
- Alt. History Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
HanEmpire
Delicious
Oh it's beautiful. So, so beautiful.
We should be careful next time we build the MMks, I have a theory that our civvy sectors big power draw is a combination of more aluminum getting turned into goods and the mmk we just built expanding itself to satisfy our endless demand. Get too reckless and we'll find ourselves underwater on power just from our power entisive aluminum facilities expanding on their own too quickly
- Location
- The great frozen north
OH YEAH UPDATE! Reaction time:
SKIN OF OUR TEETH. Local blackouts just small enough for SupSov to not notice. So, power budget: 1+30(hydro)+56(gas)-21(civilians)-5(army) = 61. Not bad, we might not need a coal plant. Much of that civvie use is from making more aluminum smelters, and there's the question if we want to build the next stage of Severouralsk for political brownie points or just let the civilian sector work on it. Of note, Severouralsk stage 2 is more power-efficient than the first stage and perhaps even the private sector.
If I'm interpreting this right: The Voz set it up so that all the new regulatory agencies are technically private sector businesses? I'm not clear on why he did that or how useful it is in the short term, but that sounds like it will make them hard to control in the future. Good if the government decides they are inconvenient, bad if the enterprises go for Regulatory Capture.
Ok, so no recreational nukes yet. Sadge. But oh boy this is a c h o n k y project and probably will have to wait for a while given our dice situation. The extra power is nice at least.
MegaMag was not enough WE HUNGER FOR CONCRETE. But this could reduce the cost of autohousing and autohydro, which sounds pretty useful. Plus, more central asian development.
Skip on this one. It's space station stuff, not Moonshot stuff. It will make the SupSov cranky.
Huh, heat pumps with CoP enough to beat out NGCC in the sixties? Is that a thing historically? Though as impressive as that is, it sounds like the benefits are pretty minor. Unless we're hoping to normalize heat pumps rather than gas heating super early in preparation for eliminating fossil fuels, I expect the direct benefits will be limited. But I suppose it does have potential to further reduce coal use from areas where district gas heating could not reach. Plus, if we're lucky the plant can do double duty and we won't need dedicated air conditioning plants.
Agricultural resellers? How big is this problem actually? This action seems sus, I would expect those middle men will cause at least one of increased food prices for the people, struggles for farmers to make a profit, or ramp up our subsidy budget.
Whoa hold up. What's going on here? Is there a massive grain overproduction crisis that nobody knew about until now? But I suppose there is worth in encouraging value rather than just demanding MOAR GRAIN like Koba used to demand MOAR STEEL. Though if a major issue is lack of vegetable transport infrastructure, sounds like []Light Transportation Systems will also fix that.
No new actions.... so no actions that are obviously not a Voznesenky-brand REALLY GOOD IDEA. Are we gonna put all these on focusing the department?
SKIN OF OUR TEETH. Local blackouts just small enough for SupSov to not notice. So, power budget: 1+30(hydro)+56(gas)-21(civilians)-5(army) = 61. Not bad, we might not need a coal plant. Much of that civvie use is from making more aluminum smelters, and there's the question if we want to build the next stage of Severouralsk for political brownie points or just let the civilian sector work on it. Of note, Severouralsk stage 2 is more power-efficient than the first stage and perhaps even the private sector.
- Pronouns
- He/They
| This Turn | Last Turn |
| Current Economic States: | Current Economic States: |
| Coal: -5 CI5 (0 RpT, Net Import, Moderate Cross Border Volume, Low Prices) | Coal: -4 CI5 (0 RpT, Net Import, Moderate Cross Border Volume, Low Prices) |
| Non-Ferrous: -15 CI6 (-30 RpT, Net Import, Moderate Cross Border Volume, Very High Prices) | Non-Ferrous: -21 CI6 (-40 RpT, Net Import, Moderate Cross Border Volume, Very High Prices) |
| Steel: 81 CI12 (15 RpT, Large Net Export, High Cross Border Volume, Low Prices) (-10 RpD Infra) | Steel: 90 CI12 (20 RpT, Large Net Export, High Cross Border Volume, Low Prices) (-10 RpD Infra) |
| Electricity: 1 CI9 (Insufficient Infra for Trade) | Electricity: 13 CI9 (Insufficient Infra for Trade) |
| Agriculture: 10 RpT (Large Net Export, High Cross Border Volume, Low Prices, Subsidized) | Food: -20 RpT (Large Net Export, High Cross Border Volume, Low Prices, Subsidized) |
| Oil: 165 RpT (Large Net Export, High Cross Border Volume, Low Prices) | Oil: 180 RpT (Large Net Export, High Cross Border Volume, Low Prices) |
| Medications: 50 RpT (Large Net Export, Moderate Cross Border Volume, Medium Prices) | Medications: 90 RpT (Large Net Export, Moderate Cross Border Volume, Medium Prices) |
| Consumer Goods: 220 RpT (Net Export, Very High Cross Border Volume, Low Prices) | Consumer Goods: 190 RpT (Net Export, Very High Cross Border Volume, Low Prices) |
| State of the Workforce: | State of the Workforce: |
| Labor Reserve: 37 | Labor Reserve: 22 |
| Labor Reserve: 20 RpT Cost | Labor Reserve: 10 RpT Cost |
| Prison Reserve: 20 RpT Cost | Prison Reserve: 20 RpT Cost |
| Incoming: | Incoming: |
| 23 CI7 Net Men Entering the Workforce | 22 CI7 Net Men Entering the Workforce |
| 25 CI8 Net Women Entering the Workforce | 24 CI6 Net Women Entering the Workforce |
| 12 CI7 Movement from Rural Areas | 13 CI7 Movement from Rural Areas |
| Foreign Labor Added to System: | Foreign Labor Added to System: |
| (12)1958 | (18(7 Stayed))1957 |
| (13)1959 | (12)1958 |
| (13)1960 | (13)1959 |
| (28)1961 | (13)1960 |
| (16)1962 | (28)1961 |
| Civilian Sector Demand Changes: | Civilian Sector Demand Changes: |
| (30 RpT Grant Allocations) | (30 RpT Grant Allocations) |
| Coal: -4 CI4 | Coal: -2 CI4 |
| Non-Ferrous: 7 CI5 | Non-Ferrous: 12 CI4 |
| Steel: 6 CI4 | Steel: 4 CI6 |
| Electricity: -21 CI4 | Electricity: -31 CI5 |
| Workforce: -15 CI5 | Workforce: -17 CI5 |
| Projected Military Demand Changes: | Projected Military Demand Changes: |
| Coal: | Coal: |
| Non-Ferrous: -8 CI1 | Non-Ferrous: -7 CI1 |
| Steel: -4 CI2 | Steel: -5 CI2 |
| Electricity: -5 CI1 | Electricity: -4 CI1 |
| Workforce: -2 CI6 | Workforce: -3 CI8 |
- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- She/Her
CoP of 3.4 was delivered in the 40's which kinda surprised me a bunch. You still can't really retrofit them into your buildings, but for new builds in zones that can use them, why not build them.
- Location
- The great frozen north
What was the threshold for the steel discount again? 60? We've a net +2 from civvies and military so we can build heat pumps or AC without losing the discount, but we'll need a mill soon. Especially if we want that last car plant.
Service dice: As tempting it is to put every dice we can scratch on medical stuff, I think we should put a couple on Canteens or Museums or such to remind the ministry we haven't completely abandoned providing the population with other services. 'Side that, my main uncertainty in planning is Heavy Industry. Do we want to push further with Severouralsk? If not, do we push further on coal? Go for the car factory + steel mill combo or go for other stuff? So many options... Meanwhile in Light Industry, I'm looking at taking all those little +consoom non-petrochem options we've been putting off.
There's the unfortunately thing that two dice on coal plants is almost guaranteed to massively overshoot, but a single dice has a success chance too low to be relied on.
Service dice: As tempting it is to put every dice we can scratch on medical stuff, I think we should put a couple on Canteens or Museums or such to remind the ministry we haven't completely abandoned providing the population with other services. 'Side that, my main uncertainty in planning is Heavy Industry. Do we want to push further with Severouralsk? If not, do we push further on coal? Go for the car factory + steel mill combo or go for other stuff? So many options... Meanwhile in Light Industry, I'm looking at taking all those little +consoom non-petrochem options we've been putting off.
There's the unfortunately thing that two dice on coal plants is almost guaranteed to massively overshoot, but a single dice has a success chance too low to be relied on.
Is there anybody hardcore enough to make plans without a spreadsheet?
Given our goal of ramping up CONSOOM production and profits way up, having the enterprises use lots of aluminum is something we probably want and have to pay for.
OOF that's a large drop in exports. Likely a result of discovering so much of our stuff was adulterated I bet. I hope it picks back up eventually.
Fascinating- source? Not that I doubt you, I'm mostly curious where you'd go looking to figure out what performances heat pumps could reach in year X.
No, this is core Moonshot stuff. If we don't develop a rendezvous capability, we're stuck with a direct ascent moon architecture which will require a disproportionately large booster. Rendezvous will greatly reduce the big risk of RLA not delivering a sufficiently capable booster.
- Location
- The great frozen north
Oh jeez, thanks for pointing that out. Though how big is that risk really, given how fuckhuge the RLA seems to be?
Also I've realized our resource budget is actually super generous, I can use all our dice no problem on my WIP plans.
- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Its a water facing heat pump that got installed in the mid 40's.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Okay, so. I see a bunch of new projects are up. I've made some hasty edits to this Plan I drafted before the new turn, so check it out.
[ ] Plan Infra Intensification
Infrastructure, 5 Dice +5 Free
-[ ] Secondary City Metro Lines(Stage 5), 1 die (75 Resources)
-[ ] Moscow Renovation, 5 dice (300 Resources)
-[ ] Passenger Rail Network, 2 dice (150 Resources)
-[ ] Trans-Siberian Road, 2 dice (120 Resources)
Heavy Industry, 8 Dice
-[ ] Aggregate Processing Plants, 2 dice (100 Resources)
-[ ] Kolomna Locomotive Works Modernization, 2 dice (120 Resources)
-[ ] Bekabad Metallurgical Plant, 3 dice (300 Resources)
-[ ] Coal Power Plants, 1 die (100 Resources)
Rocketry, 4-1 = 3 Dice
-[ ] Cosmodrome Expansion, 1 die (40 Resources)
-[ ] EVA Suit Programs, 1 die
-[ ] Hypersonic Wind Tunnel, 1 die (70 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry, 8 Dice
-[ ] Consumable Product Initiatives(Stage 1), 2 dice (100 Resources)
-[ ] Book Production, 1 die (50 Resources)
-[ ] Electrified Appliance Production, 2 dice (120 Resources)
-[ ] Textile Industry Modernization(Stage 2), 1 die (50 Resources)
-[ ] Chemicalization of Alcohol Production, 2 dice (100 Resources)
Agriculture, 4 Dice
-[ ] Agricultural Diversification, 2 dice (100 Resources)
-[ ] Light Transportation Systems, 2 dice (100 Resources)
Services, 0 Dice
Bureaucracy, 5 Dice
-[ ] Dedicate Focus Towards a Project (Moscow Renovation), 1 die
-[ ] Dedicate Focus Towards a Project (Bekabad Metallurgical Plant), 1 die
-[ ] ???
-[ ] Determine Coalitional Alignments, 2 dice
Resources Available: 2015
Resources Used: 1995
Resources Remaining: 20
Big Infra focus is on Moscow, but also intensifying Train and getting the roads done at last (because they're a big economic return.) HI I'm doing Aggregate, finishing the last of the train factories, and getting a steel mill. Could trade the train yard for more coal mines if we think we'll need them, but I'd prefer to just import for now. I'm hoping that next turn we can have HI finish the last car plant and complete the destruction of Rolls-Royce.
Not sure on Rocketry. LCI I'm doing a lot of ConGoods, but do we rate Air Conditioners and Heat Pumps as a higher priority? We probably have the money for them.
Agri is the mix of diversification and transportation, because those seem to be the two big issues it's having right now: too much wheat production and not enough transports.
Bureau, I have 1 die on Moscow Renovation, and 2 dice on Coalitional Alignments because I'm not sure what else to do. Suppose I'll put another Dedicate Focus onto Temirtau since that's the most expensive and high-dice project I'm doing.
Again, this plan hasn't really thought through how high priority a lot of the newer options are, so feel free to edit it to make your own.
[ ] Plan Infra Intensification
Infrastructure, 5 Dice +5 Free
-[ ] Secondary City Metro Lines(Stage 5), 1 die (75 Resources)
-[ ] Moscow Renovation, 5 dice (300 Resources)
-[ ] Passenger Rail Network, 2 dice (150 Resources)
-[ ] Trans-Siberian Road, 2 dice (120 Resources)
Heavy Industry, 8 Dice
-[ ] Aggregate Processing Plants, 2 dice (100 Resources)
-[ ] Kolomna Locomotive Works Modernization, 2 dice (120 Resources)
-[ ] Bekabad Metallurgical Plant, 3 dice (300 Resources)
-[ ] Coal Power Plants, 1 die (100 Resources)
Rocketry, 4-1 = 3 Dice
-[ ] Cosmodrome Expansion, 1 die (40 Resources)
-[ ] EVA Suit Programs, 1 die
-[ ] Hypersonic Wind Tunnel, 1 die (70 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry, 8 Dice
-[ ] Consumable Product Initiatives(Stage 1), 2 dice (100 Resources)
-[ ] Book Production, 1 die (50 Resources)
-[ ] Electrified Appliance Production, 2 dice (120 Resources)
-[ ] Textile Industry Modernization(Stage 2), 1 die (50 Resources)
-[ ] Chemicalization of Alcohol Production, 2 dice (100 Resources)
Agriculture, 4 Dice
-[ ] Agricultural Diversification, 2 dice (100 Resources)
-[ ] Light Transportation Systems, 2 dice (100 Resources)
Services, 0 Dice
Bureaucracy, 5 Dice
-[ ] Dedicate Focus Towards a Project (Moscow Renovation), 1 die
-[ ] Dedicate Focus Towards a Project (Bekabad Metallurgical Plant), 1 die
-[ ] ???
-[ ] Determine Coalitional Alignments, 2 dice
Resources Available: 2015
Resources Used: 1995
Resources Remaining: 20
Big Infra focus is on Moscow, but also intensifying Train and getting the roads done at last (because they're a big economic return.) HI I'm doing Aggregate, finishing the last of the train factories, and getting a steel mill. Could trade the train yard for more coal mines if we think we'll need them, but I'd prefer to just import for now. I'm hoping that next turn we can have HI finish the last car plant and complete the destruction of Rolls-Royce.
Not sure on Rocketry. LCI I'm doing a lot of ConGoods, but do we rate Air Conditioners and Heat Pumps as a higher priority? We probably have the money for them.
Agri is the mix of diversification and transportation, because those seem to be the two big issues it's having right now: too much wheat production and not enough transports.
Bureau, I have 1 die on Moscow Renovation, and 2 dice on Coalitional Alignments because I'm not sure what else to do. Suppose I'll put another Dedicate Focus onto Temirtau since that's the most expensive and high-dice project I'm doing.
Again, this plan hasn't really thought through how high priority a lot of the newer options are, so feel free to edit it to make your own.
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HanEmpire
Delicious
They're NGOs that Voz can sorta control by only giving grants to the ones that inspect sectors that Voz isn't in cahoots with.
Once Voz is out those NGOs will blow us up because all of Voz's political enemies will start pushing for massive anti-corruption audits on all the sectors that Voz used to protect. It will be very good for government transparency and long term viability of the Soviet Union, but it will hurt our ministry like nothing else since the Great Purge.
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- Pronouns
- He/They
Looking at Bureaucracy dice, it looks like we don't have a lot that's pressing this turn, which could mesh nicely with focus dice on a big Infastructure push. I don't think we need to do the shadier maneuvering there - Equivocate on Trade makes sense but Voz is likely riding high on the pharmaceuticals investigation and (if we're decisive on the Moscow project) a huge amount of pork.
In space, if we're holding out hope for the moon landing we need to do docking experiments, because RLA isn't big enough to launch a mission that doesn't involve docking. and it turned out to take a lot of trial and error to get it right OTL. The spacesuit would probably be good too though if we want to do the hypersonic wind tunnel in the 60s now is probably the time, and we can probably get away with delaying the spacesuit a little to do so.
Agricultural Diversification and Second Generation Herbicides are both pretty important, but they might be the kind of thing that is best invested in slowly, since it was mentioned that development programs tend to be and the former might be a learning process to an extent.
In space, if we're holding out hope for the moon landing we need to do docking experiments, because RLA isn't big enough to launch a mission that doesn't involve docking. and it turned out to take a lot of trial and error to get it right OTL. The spacesuit would probably be good too though if we want to do the hypersonic wind tunnel in the 60s now is probably the time, and we can probably get away with delaying the spacesuit a little to do so.
Last I heard, it currently is expected to top out at less mass to orbit than OTL's N1 (90 vs 95 tons), which was itself small enough to cause serious design problems - though other factors probably make this more of a constraint than a straight-up problem.
Agricultural Diversification and Second Generation Herbicides are both pretty important, but they might be the kind of thing that is best invested in slowly, since it was mentioned that development programs tend to be and the former might be a learning process to an extent.
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- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
I say go for Heat Pumps, Rural Clinics, EVA Suits, Trans-Siberian Roads and Aggregate Plants.
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
This takes me back to thermal physics. While heat pumps are amazing for both heating and cooling, I do need to ask one thing. What sort of refrigerants are being used? I'm guessing a whole bunch of CFCs rather than ammonia.
IIRC wasn't there something about large-scale projects like the Passenger Rail Network doing better if we did lots of funding at once rather than drip feeding them various amounts over multiple turns? Trans-Siberian is a much smaller project at just 150 progress total, and 4 dice on a project would still be a lot, so would pulling a die from TSR and Moscow to feed 4 into PRN be useful?
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Definitely an argument to be made for that. 4 dice on Passenger Rail I think means we're like a hundred progress away from finishing it, assuming average rolls.
I just wanted to well, do some actual roads because they're the biggest economic contributor we can do in Infra and we've been lagging painfully behind on them.
I just wanted to well, do some actual roads because they're the biggest economic contributor we can do in Infra and we've been lagging painfully behind on them.
- Location
- The great frozen north
So, if docking is useful, than it seems all our space options are good for the Moonshot. Question of priorities then. I would prefer only starting one new ongoing program per turn if we can survive it, to avoid spooking the SupSov.
@Chimeraguard I'm not chuffed with spending all 5 free dice on infra. Moscow is important but not THAT important, and I don't want to leave services totally idle. As for LCI I'd like to see heat pumps progress, balance the dice between them and CONSOOM rather than go all in on one. Also I'd like a dice on civilian airports, just to not let it sit idle.
A good attempt at a plan that can survive us not completing coal plants this turn tho. Power's actually a pretty tight constraint if you're not two-dicing the burn rock plant.
With four dice and a department focus, we have a roughly one-quarter chance of finishing it this turn. But given the electricity cost will hit us all at once, perhaps we don't want that.
@Chimeraguard I'm not chuffed with spending all 5 free dice on infra. Moscow is important but not THAT important, and I don't want to leave services totally idle. As for LCI I'd like to see heat pumps progress, balance the dice between them and CONSOOM rather than go all in on one. Also I'd like a dice on civilian airports, just to not let it sit idle.
A good attempt at a plan that can survive us not completing coal plants this turn tho. Power's actually a pretty tight constraint if you're not two-dicing the burn rock plant.
With four dice and a department focus, we have a roughly one-quarter chance of finishing it this turn. But given the electricity cost will hit us all at once, perhaps we don't want that.
- Location
- UTC+0
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
They are NGOs pretty much, and the latter is exactly why Voz did this, the managers have much less of a hold on the private sector than in the State/Party, so he can yeet the students into his manager rivals without having to contend with regular manager-party collusion. The issue is, we control them by holding the purse strings, but what happens if someone else swoops in and gives them funds to investigate us? Its a double edged sword, Voz will have to be careful with it.
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Yes. I know Chimeraguard doesn't use it. It's mildly annoying when a differently formatted plan breaks my dice-counter program. (Pretty easy to fix though)
Anyway, edit: This plan is illegal, we lost 1 agri dice. Would probably remove 1 from Farming Supply Provisioning, but will have to consider further
[] Plan Moderately Medical Minded
-[]2015/2015 Resources (0 Reserve), 36 Dice Rolled
Infrastructure (8/5 Dice, 525 R)
-[]Secondary City Metro Lines(Stage 5), 1 Dice (75 R)
-[]Moscow Renovation, 2 Dice (120 R)
-[]Passenger Rail Network(Western SU), 4 Dice (280 R)
-[]Civilian Airports(Stage 2), 1 Dice (50 R)
Heavy Industry (8/8 Dice, 620 R)
-[]Aggregate Processing Plants, 2 Dice (100 R)
-[]Kolomna Locomotive Works Modernization, 2 Dice (120 R)
-[]Bekabad Metallurgical Plant, 3 Dice (300 R)
-[]Coal Power Plants, 1 Dice (100 R)
Rocketry (2/2 Dice, 70 R)
-[]EVA Suit Programs, 1 Dice
-[]Hypersonic Wind Tunnel, 1 Dice (70 R)
Light and Chemical Industry (8/8 Dice, 470 R)
-[]Consumable Product Initiatives(Stage 1), 2 Dice (100 R)
-[]Book Production, 1 Dice (50 R)
-[]Electrified Appliance Production, 2 Dice (120 R)
-[]Heat Pump Plants(Stage 1), 2 Dice (150 R)
-[]Textile Industry Modernization(Stage 2), 1 Dice (50 R)
Agriculture (5/5 Dice, 230 R)
-[]Farming Supply Provisioning, 2 Dice (80 R)
-[]Agricultural Diversification, 3 Dice (150 R)
Services (2/0 Dice, 100 R)
-[]Medial System Standardization, 2 Dice (100 R)
Bureaucracy (5/5 Dice, 0 R)
-[]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Passenger Rail Network(Western SU)), 1 Dice
-[]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Bekabad Metallurgical Plant), 1 Dice
-[]Currency Agitation, 1 Dice
-[]Determine Coalitional Alignments, 2 Dice
Specifically going for Bekabad in part because we won't finish it, as we can't safely afford the electric costs of finishing a steel plant with only 1 dice on the coal power plant. Also because the text calls it "a priority". Not sure on the Bureaucracy actions, so this is a nice and easy "don't rock the boat" set. I'm open to changing them though if people want to do more.
Electricity:
1+30+56-21-5=61 available
Plan spends up to 67, but the chances of hitting that are extremely low (~1%) and has a 52% chance of completing the coal power plant.
Workforce:
(37+23+25+12)-15-2=80
This plan spends up to 53
Steel:
(-50)+81+6-4=33 available
Plan spends up to 12, no problem.
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Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
It actually is kinda important because now that demolition of Moscow has already started, a lot of very important people in the USSR who live there are expecting the funding allocated to start building it back up ASAP.
And they're kinda sorta very impatient about seeing major progress in that.
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Yeah, roads are definitely something we need to do work on, Blackstar said they're the best thing that we can get in terms of return. So maybe just 3 on PRN to keep 2 on a road project?
Also, is the TSR going to help us with our lack of road problem more than the W USSR HighCap Roads? The latter is the one that actually mentions transportation efficiency, and I thought our problem was more that we lacked enough roads for trucks to deliver to enterprises that didn't have integrated rail yards/connections more than we needed better to bypass towns in Siberia.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Putting space right at the funding cap is a bit of a risk. Means we can cover no cost overruns.