Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
- Start date
- Alt. History Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Italy
ok, so quick thoughts
1) we have lots of reserves but low income, so we want to spend in those projects that give us income boost (or cost reductions) as quickly as possible. That's mostly steel modernization projects, plastics, cars, TVs, and other consumer projects.
2)Houses take a LOT of our budget, but that's affected by steel availability, so making more steel should reduce the costs there.
3) We're getting a decent amount of electricity from dams and power plants, but the gas plants require us to complete 4 gas projects by 1960 (start of, or end of 1960? one is 4 turns, the other is 6), AND the pipeline stage 4 by 1962
4)The Rail network changed and expanded to an electrified network project. Interesting.
5)with power going up as quickly as it is, we'll likely need to work on the grid network too.
6)Perm MMK mentions both cost reductions and resource gains. Just something to keep in mind.
7)We obviously can't be left behind in important technologies like nuclear plants and transistors.
8)No more leaving Rocketry dice unused, finally! If we're going for the Moon (which I think we are) we'll want to USE these dice to improve our tech and odds!
9)Modernization of oil fields has a "(2 gas projects)" at the end. Does that mean it REQUIRES 2 gas projects, or that it counts as two? I'm assuming the second.
10)Generally speaking it seems like we mostly have high-cost low-progress actions... with a few obvious exceptions, like the rails. Good for the dice count, bad for our reserves I suppose.
Now to see the winning plans...
1) we have lots of reserves but low income, so we want to spend in those projects that give us income boost (or cost reductions) as quickly as possible. That's mostly steel modernization projects, plastics, cars, TVs, and other consumer projects.
2)Houses take a LOT of our budget, but that's affected by steel availability, so making more steel should reduce the costs there.
3) We're getting a decent amount of electricity from dams and power plants, but the gas plants require us to complete 4 gas projects by 1960 (start of, or end of 1960? one is 4 turns, the other is 6), AND the pipeline stage 4 by 1962
4)The Rail network changed and expanded to an electrified network project. Interesting.
5)with power going up as quickly as it is, we'll likely need to work on the grid network too.
6)Perm MMK mentions both cost reductions and resource gains. Just something to keep in mind.
7)We obviously can't be left behind in important technologies like nuclear plants and transistors.
8)No more leaving Rocketry dice unused, finally! If we're going for the Moon (which I think we are) we'll want to USE these dice to improve our tech and odds!
9)Modernization of oil fields has a "(2 gas projects)" at the end. Does that mean it REQUIRES 2 gas projects, or that it counts as two? I'm assuming the second.
10)Generally speaking it seems like we mostly have high-cost low-progress actions... with a few obvious exceptions, like the rails. Good for the dice count, bad for our reserves I suppose.
Now to see the winning plans...
This plan is the same as the current leading plan, but it swaps out starting the next generation lifter in rocketry for trying to put a PKA into orbit. I think it's very important to hedge our bets on manned spaceflight given how much of a political imperative it is to get Yuri up there now. The capsule program is important obviously but we also shouldn't be passing up the opportunity that the unexpectedly lucky spaceplane presents. If it keeps getting lucky the PKA is our fastest way to ensure a cosmonaut gets up and back safely, that speed could be very important racing the Americans. 6 months could make or break reaching this milestone first, seeing how we lost Sputnik by just mere days, so I want to get the manned program going strong ASAP. The theoretical future heavy lifter on the other hand probably won't make or break anything by waiting 6 months.
[X] Plan FFNRL and Spaceplanes
-[X] Infrastructure (5 dice + 1 Free) 440 Resources
--[X]Secondary City Metro Lines(Stage 3), 2 Dice (160R)
--[X]Construction of the Paved Road Network(Stage 5), 1 Dice (60 R)
--[X]Water Distribution Systems(Stage 5), 1 Dice (70 R)
--[X]Expansion of the Unified Grid(Stage 5), 2 Dice (150 R)
-[X] Heavy Industry (8 dice + 3 Free) 860 Resources
--[X]Karaganda Steel Mill Construction, 3 Dice (300 R)
--[X]Coal Mine Modernization, 2 Dice (120 R)
--[X]Perm MMK(Stage 1), 4 Dice (240 R)
--[X]Test Reactor Complex Construction, 1 Dice (120R)
--[X]Bus Plants(Lviv), 1 Dice (80 R)
-[X] Rocketry (3 dice) 0 Resources
--[X]Start Luna-Probes
--[X]Manned Capsule Program
--[X]R7M-PKA Program
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry (8 dice + 1 Free) 550 Resources
--[X]Modernization of Oil Fields, 3 Dice (150 R)
--[X]Plastic Production(Stage 4), 1 Dice (60 R)
--[X]Kitchenware Plants, 3 Dice (180R)
--[X]Luxury Goods Initiatives(Stage 1), 1 Dice (40 R)
--[X]Computing Plants Modernization, 1 Dice (120 R)
-[X] Agriculture (5 dice) 260 Resources
--[X]Expansions of Factory Farming(Stage 8), 3 Dice (150 R)
--[X]Foundation of SOE's in the Virgin Land Belt, 1 Dice (50 R)
--[X]Continued Infrastructural Development, 1 Dice (60 R)
-[X] Services (2 dice) 120 Resources
--[X]Baltic Sea Tourist Centers, 2 Dice (120 R)
-[X] Bureaucracy (5 dice) 0 Resources
--[X]Remove Worker-Compensation Limits, 1 Dice
--[X]Break open the Army OKBs, 2 dice
--[X]Start Army-Funding Transfers, 1 Dice
--[X]Determine Coalitional Alignments, 1 Dice
-[X] Total Cost: 2230/1235 Resources, -995 reserve, 2905 Resources remaining in reserve
Also I think the moonshot is a little too ambitious, we have more important things to spend money on than dick measuring. I won't be upset if we end up going for it or anything, but it will be ruinously expensive and I'd prefer to keep building trains and running water instead of setting money on fire for prestige.
[X]Development of Near-Earth Technologies
[X] Plan FFNRL and Spaceplanes
-[X] Infrastructure (5 dice + 1 Free) 440 Resources
--[X]Secondary City Metro Lines(Stage 3), 2 Dice (160R)
--[X]Construction of the Paved Road Network(Stage 5), 1 Dice (60 R)
--[X]Water Distribution Systems(Stage 5), 1 Dice (70 R)
--[X]Expansion of the Unified Grid(Stage 5), 2 Dice (150 R)
-[X] Heavy Industry (8 dice + 3 Free) 860 Resources
--[X]Karaganda Steel Mill Construction, 3 Dice (300 R)
--[X]Coal Mine Modernization, 2 Dice (120 R)
--[X]Perm MMK(Stage 1), 4 Dice (240 R)
--[X]Test Reactor Complex Construction, 1 Dice (120R)
--[X]Bus Plants(Lviv), 1 Dice (80 R)
-[X] Rocketry (3 dice) 0 Resources
--[X]Start Luna-Probes
--[X]Manned Capsule Program
--[X]R7M-PKA Program
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry (8 dice + 1 Free) 550 Resources
--[X]Modernization of Oil Fields, 3 Dice (150 R)
--[X]Plastic Production(Stage 4), 1 Dice (60 R)
--[X]Kitchenware Plants, 3 Dice (180R)
--[X]Luxury Goods Initiatives(Stage 1), 1 Dice (40 R)
--[X]Computing Plants Modernization, 1 Dice (120 R)
-[X] Agriculture (5 dice) 260 Resources
--[X]Expansions of Factory Farming(Stage 8), 3 Dice (150 R)
--[X]Foundation of SOE's in the Virgin Land Belt, 1 Dice (50 R)
--[X]Continued Infrastructural Development, 1 Dice (60 R)
-[X] Services (2 dice) 120 Resources
--[X]Baltic Sea Tourist Centers, 2 Dice (120 R)
-[X] Bureaucracy (5 dice) 0 Resources
--[X]Remove Worker-Compensation Limits, 1 Dice
--[X]Break open the Army OKBs, 2 dice
--[X]Start Army-Funding Transfers, 1 Dice
--[X]Determine Coalitional Alignments, 1 Dice
-[X] Total Cost: 2230/1235 Resources, -995 reserve, 2905 Resources remaining in reserve
Also I think the moonshot is a little too ambitious, we have more important things to spend money on than dick measuring. I won't be upset if we end up going for it or anything, but it will be ruinously expensive and I'd prefer to keep building trains and running water instead of setting money on fire for prestige.
[X]Development of Near-Earth Technologies
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- Location
- Reno
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Plan FFNRL and Spaceplanes
- Location
- The great frozen north
Gonna approval vote it, might as well.
I wonder if, if the USA does the "we chose to go to the moon" speech we'll get the option to reprioritize if the SupSov gets really cranky?
EDIT: Repriotizing to Moonshot half way through the plan might not work. But if we start on Near-Earth and then acceed to SupSov crying, we'll at least get some long-term infrastructure ready and only take some political hit. Though so long as it won't get Voz fired I'd be inclined to tell SupSov to sod off even if they do tell us to change plans.
[X] Plan FFNRL and Spaceplanes
[X]Development of Near-Earth Technologies
I wonder if, if the USA does the "we chose to go to the moon" speech we'll get the option to reprioritize if the SupSov gets really cranky?
EDIT: Repriotizing to Moonshot half way through the plan might not work. But if we start on Near-Earth and then acceed to SupSov crying, we'll at least get some long-term infrastructure ready and only take some political hit. Though so long as it won't get Voz fired I'd be inclined to tell SupSov to sod off even if they do tell us to change plans.
[X] Plan FFNRL and Spaceplanes
[X]Development of Near-Earth Technologies
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- Pronouns
- He
[X] Moonshot
[X] Plan Fossil Fuels and National Republics
[X] Plan Fossil Fuels and National Republics
- Location
- Minnesota
[X]Development of Near-Earth Technologies
[X] Plan Fossil Fuels and National Republics and Luxuries
[X] Plan Fossil Fuels and National Republics and Luxuries
On the PKM space plane idea, it's probably worthwhile to realize what its actual trade offs are versus capsules.
Specifically a capsule is a simple, robust and cheap solution that will let you throw people up and bring them down at the lowest price for each built capsule, but that's all they'll do as unless you increase their complexity giving them active control systems, they have little ability to over come atmospheric density changes throwing them off targets tens or even hundreds of kilometers.
Which is part of why Space plane type developments keep coming back in a sense because they give you more control and if engineered correctly, more abort options where you can recover your craft some what safely.
For instance to give a real world relevant example on capsule. in the Soviet Union it's pretty common for capsules to come down in a fairly wide area and out of necessity 'wild' area, your location beyond a rough estimate unknown till found, and you'd possibly not be recovered for hours or worse. The surroundings are filled with dangerous animals, so a gun for safety is advised and I believe was often available.
Soft landing... didn't exist, land landings in particular are known to be very rough, with brutal deceleration shock on impact, especially early on before they landed last fraction of a second with braking rockets. And of course the capsules don't really have much stored power to keep them light and compact, so if recovery takes long and it's cold outside things might eventually start to freeze. (And I hope you don't land in a body of water I guess)
With a space plane setup though you can maneuver yourself to an airfield and land softly, giving substantially more flexibility on recovery options as well as even what you can recover from, rough landings always being a bit tricky with anything all to fragile. If the rocket fails going up, a space plane in principle has at least a bit more ability to avert some of the worst return options, being able to get some extra glide in, rather then perhaps falling almost straight down right in to the thickest atmosphere and suffer extreme g-loads, which necessitates limiting some launch profiles. Also a space plane design would more likely be designed to reuse because one is less inclined to throw them away.
Of course the drawback is that space planes are substantially more complex and require more effort to make work well, thus more expensive on a per unit build price. Though if reused that might not be that big a deal long term.
So it's a bit what you want I guess, quick, cheap and simple; or expensive, complex, flexible, easier recovery, more able to return to USSR from various orbits, some improved safety.
Specifically a capsule is a simple, robust and cheap solution that will let you throw people up and bring them down at the lowest price for each built capsule, but that's all they'll do as unless you increase their complexity giving them active control systems, they have little ability to over come atmospheric density changes throwing them off targets tens or even hundreds of kilometers.
Which is part of why Space plane type developments keep coming back in a sense because they give you more control and if engineered correctly, more abort options where you can recover your craft some what safely.
For instance to give a real world relevant example on capsule. in the Soviet Union it's pretty common for capsules to come down in a fairly wide area and out of necessity 'wild' area, your location beyond a rough estimate unknown till found, and you'd possibly not be recovered for hours or worse. The surroundings are filled with dangerous animals, so a gun for safety is advised and I believe was often available.
Soft landing... didn't exist, land landings in particular are known to be very rough, with brutal deceleration shock on impact, especially early on before they landed last fraction of a second with braking rockets. And of course the capsules don't really have much stored power to keep them light and compact, so if recovery takes long and it's cold outside things might eventually start to freeze. (And I hope you don't land in a body of water I guess)
With a space plane setup though you can maneuver yourself to an airfield and land softly, giving substantially more flexibility on recovery options as well as even what you can recover from, rough landings always being a bit tricky with anything all to fragile. If the rocket fails going up, a space plane in principle has at least a bit more ability to avert some of the worst return options, being able to get some extra glide in, rather then perhaps falling almost straight down right in to the thickest atmosphere and suffer extreme g-loads, which necessitates limiting some launch profiles. Also a space plane design would more likely be designed to reuse because one is less inclined to throw them away.
Of course the drawback is that space planes are substantially more complex and require more effort to make work well, thus more expensive on a per unit build price. Though if reused that might not be that big a deal long term.
So it's a bit what you want I guess, quick, cheap and simple; or expensive, complex, flexible, easier recovery, more able to return to USSR from various orbits, some improved safety.
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Not really liking 4-dice on Perm, that seems like a lot to dump on a mining project all at once. I still think phones are worth going for right now.
[X]Moonshot
[X] Plan Infra-Steel
-[X]2350/5135 Resources (2785 Reserve), 38 Dice Rolled
Infrastructure (9/5 Dice, 680 R)
-[X]Secondary City Metro Lines(Stage 3), 2 Dice (160 R)
-[X]Passenger Rail Network(Western SU), 1 Dice (80 R)
-[X]Construction of the Paved Road Network(Stage 5), 1 Dice (60 R)
-[X]Water Distribution Systems(Stage 5), 1 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Expansion of the Unified Grid(Stage 5), 1 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Telecommunications Infrastructure(Stage 3), 3 Dice (240 R)
Heavy Industry (9/8 Dice, 780 R)
-[X]Karaganda Steel Mill Construction, 4 Dice (400 R)
-[X]Perm MMK(Stage 1), 3 Dice (180 R)
-[X]Test Reactor Complex Construction, 1 Dice (120 R)
-[X]Bus Plants(Lviv), 1 Dice (80 R)
Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
-[X]Determine the Next Launcher, 1 Dice
-[X]Start Luna-Probes, 1 Dice
-[X]R7M-PKA Program, 1 Dice
Light and Chemical Industry (8/8 Dice, 550 R)
-[X]Oil Cracking Plants, 1 Dice (90 R)
-[X]Television Production Plants(Stage 3), 1 Dice (80 R)
-[X]Kitchenware Plants, 3 Dice (180 R)
-[X]Luxury Goods Initiatives(Stage 1), 2 Dice (80 R)
-[X]Computing Plants Modernization, 1 Dice (120 R)
Agriculture (5/5 Dice, 260 R)
-[X]Expansions of Factory Farming(Stage 8), 3 Dice (150 R)
-[X]Foundation of SOEs in the Virgin Land Belt, 1 Dice (50 R)
-[X]Continued Infrastructural Development, 1 Dice (60 R)
Services (2/2 Dice, 80 R)
-[X]Film Studio Formation (Stage 3), 1 Dice (60 R)
-[X]Sports Programs(Stage 4), 1 Dice (20 R)
Bureaucracy (5/5 Dice, 0 R)
-[X]Enable Worker Initiative, 1 Dice
-[X]Remove Worker-Compensation Limits, 1 Dice
-[X]Break open the Army OKBs, 2 Dice
-[X]Start Army-Funding Transfers, 1 Dice
Edit: swapping to moonshot. USA is apparently very likely to go for a moonshot if we get first man in space, and SupSov will force us in when that happens. Thus we might as well start now.
[X]Moonshot
[X] Plan Infra-Steel
-[X]2350/5135 Resources (2785 Reserve), 38 Dice Rolled
Infrastructure (9/5 Dice, 680 R)
-[X]Secondary City Metro Lines(Stage 3), 2 Dice (160 R)
-[X]Passenger Rail Network(Western SU), 1 Dice (80 R)
-[X]Construction of the Paved Road Network(Stage 5), 1 Dice (60 R)
-[X]Water Distribution Systems(Stage 5), 1 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Expansion of the Unified Grid(Stage 5), 1 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Telecommunications Infrastructure(Stage 3), 3 Dice (240 R)
Heavy Industry (9/8 Dice, 780 R)
-[X]Karaganda Steel Mill Construction, 4 Dice (400 R)
-[X]Perm MMK(Stage 1), 3 Dice (180 R)
-[X]Test Reactor Complex Construction, 1 Dice (120 R)
-[X]Bus Plants(Lviv), 1 Dice (80 R)
Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
-[X]Determine the Next Launcher, 1 Dice
-[X]Start Luna-Probes, 1 Dice
-[X]R7M-PKA Program, 1 Dice
Light and Chemical Industry (8/8 Dice, 550 R)
-[X]Oil Cracking Plants, 1 Dice (90 R)
-[X]Television Production Plants(Stage 3), 1 Dice (80 R)
-[X]Kitchenware Plants, 3 Dice (180 R)
-[X]Luxury Goods Initiatives(Stage 1), 2 Dice (80 R)
-[X]Computing Plants Modernization, 1 Dice (120 R)
Agriculture (5/5 Dice, 260 R)
-[X]Expansions of Factory Farming(Stage 8), 3 Dice (150 R)
-[X]Foundation of SOEs in the Virgin Land Belt, 1 Dice (50 R)
-[X]Continued Infrastructural Development, 1 Dice (60 R)
Services (2/2 Dice, 80 R)
-[X]Film Studio Formation (Stage 3), 1 Dice (60 R)
-[X]Sports Programs(Stage 4), 1 Dice (20 R)
Bureaucracy (5/5 Dice, 0 R)
-[X]Enable Worker Initiative, 1 Dice
-[X]Remove Worker-Compensation Limits, 1 Dice
-[X]Break open the Army OKBs, 2 Dice
-[X]Start Army-Funding Transfers, 1 Dice
Edit: swapping to moonshot. USA is apparently very likely to go for a moonshot if we get first man in space, and SupSov will force us in when that happens. Thus we might as well start now.
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- Pronouns
- He
[X]Development of Near-Earth Technologies
[X] Plan FFNRL and Spaceplanes
[X] Plan FFNRL and Spaceplanes
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
It should also be noted that the SupSov is likely to demand we go for a Moonshot anyway if the US declares they're going for it. And if we haven't committed to it, we'll be starting from behind.
And the US will try for a Moonshot if the USSR beats them to the first man in space.
It's basically a prisoner's dilemma.
And the US will try for a Moonshot if the USSR beats them to the first man in space.
It's basically a prisoner's dilemma.
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- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If you plan on attempting a moonshot, pick the actual option that starts long running developments. Not the one that doesn't and then has to play catch up as was the issue with the OTL program. If you want to undercut and cancel the moonshot with minimal mess, pick stations and then you can have it waste a bit of money and blow up under funded on the pad, giving you an excuse to cut the project. A cutback will also happen no matter what you do that's not a scientific unmanned program, but that's because your politicians want to win their space race.
- Location
- UTC+0
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
The US will absolutely rush moon landing if we get the first man in space. When that happens, we will desperately try to pivot to lunar program and fail at beating them to it as happened OTL, with us taking a massive L and losing the Space Race. If we start working on that now, we will have the biggest advantage we could get. And the stuff we develop from the moon program will be useful either way.
Discord stuff for context said:
HanEmpire
Delicious
From Discord:
We'll have to get creative with our budget, but it can be done.Blackstar said:
- Location
- The great frozen north
We basically figured out 2. anyway, I don't think anyone here even disputed it, we were just that worried about the dick-measuring contest. But it's still good to have QM confirmation.
I'm a little less certain of the premise of 1. anyway, why is it that without a Kennedy assassination the US won't try to chase us down in the Space Race, especially after we yeet Yuri and possibly get a proto-space shuttle in the early 1960s? (Also does "without Kennedy getting shot" mean that Kennedy himself is confirmed as the next president, or does it just refer to an abstract 'Kennedy Assassination-type event'?
Even if Nasa gets more money, we'll get the bigger payoff long-term because we'd be building up a long-term useful technical base and infrastructure while NASA has burnt its budget on a giant rocket that yeets an oversized manned Sputnik at the moon and back with little other purpose.
What does "long running developments" mean? I figured Near-Earth was the long-term one while Moonshot gave us short term expertise at exactly that only to burn out and leave us with a useless space program afterwards.
[X]Development of Near-Earth Technologies
[X] Plan Infra-Steel
With the recent discussion (which would have ninja'd me several times over if SV didn't have alerts someone else had posted), it sounds like Near-Earth is half-way to being a trap action and I really hope the QM is not that sadistic. Personally I am inclined to select it, deliberately under-invest in moonshot stuff versus things that actually improve space tech long term, and eat the political cost. But I am unclear if that will be possible or not.
Get those phones a-ringing. If we roll an average 30 dice per turn that +1 will pay itself off before this plan is even over. Superficially I feel we won't be able to fit any further stages into this plan, but Voz wants his OGAS so I wonder if we'll need to push stage 4 through anyway. Electrifying those rails will be project across the entire plan along with keeping the grid up to date, but once we do roads and water at least we'll have a little bit of flexibility.
