Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
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Like trying to put out a forest fire with a squirt gun.
I'm telling you, we will reverse the rivers 360 degrees.
RR is a horrible idea but we could have critfailed housing policy, CMEA trade, or chemicalization instead so oh well. Maybe we'll even be able to fight RR at steep political cost if we really want to, although I honestly don't see any way around being forced to do some version of it eventually. There's just far too much money in Central Asia to ignore them, and all the efficiency programs in the world can't somehow produce extra water out of thin air.
Depleting the Aral by 3% or 4% a year instead of 5% a year after spending a decade forcing intensive efficiency programs on Central Asia doesn't solve our problem at the end of the day, we need to either dismantle the modern economy of Central Asia or get it more water from somewhere else. There is no universe where we can both have a modern industrial economy in CA but also not have water stress in CA, the industry cannot exist without oceans worth of water for cooling and washing processes. It's not even the agriculture that's the #1 problem anymore, it's the electricity and the steel and the textile mills.
Depleting the Aral by 3% or 4% a year instead of 5% a year after spending a decade forcing intensive efficiency programs on Central Asia doesn't solve our problem at the end of the day, we need to either dismantle the modern economy of Central Asia or get it more water from somewhere else. There is no universe where we can both have a modern industrial economy in CA but also not have water stress in CA, the industry cannot exist without oceans worth of water for cooling and washing processes. It's not even the agriculture that's the #1 problem anymore, it's the electricity and the steel and the textile mills.
China becoming an actual enemy to a degree we wouldn't trade would require a lot of things happening, and them happening because of RR is far from assured.
On the general subject, I'll say again that some kind of RR is inevitable when you have a hundred million people living in an industrial economy in Central Asia. Efficiency measures are all well and good, but they cannot change the fact that there are too many people producing too many things for the local water sources to sustain them. I hoped that by starting it early, when the situation is not desperate, we could lead what we could not stop and implement RR as carefully as possible, but it does look like that horse has bolted out of the barn. That sucks, but, well, we'll just have to deal with it. Perhaps it will be possible to create a panel of scientists that will cry out about the need to rationally implement the resources of Siberian rivers instead of just going full throttle.
When have politicians ever listened to scientists over numbers go up.
When other politicians used their words for their purposes. In particular, here it could be Bala trying to get RR back under his full purview again instead of others meddling.
- Location
- The great frozen north
Half the predictions say this will make the Arctic overheat, half say it will make it freeze, maybe it's balance out and have no effect other than killing the animals.
But seriously: That getting locked into River Reversal is considered a critfail on sending it to SupSov, while playing as a character who really wants to do it, tells us something about the QM's beliefs about whether or not it is fundamentally a bad idea.
Though even in the short term it is a legit problem for us, since it locks in Infrastructure dice on the Ob dams as well as whatever other canal prep work that monstrosity will require, in a plan that is ready set to be tight on Infra dice. Yeah we'll have a focus, 17 infra dice to start with... but 7 of those will be eaten up by housing now that we need to replace the Mikoyankas on top of the normal work and the remaining 10 are split between rail electrification, high-speed rail, other dams, and non-autodice stuff like roads and finally building proper sewage. Granted part of my worries are because I keep trying to fit the Lena cascade in too. Going back over 60 Non-Ferrous price seems inevitable if we do not build that. Which... I suppose is not a disaster, but failing to keep the price of this important metal reasonable when the west has constantly pushed it down in their block will not amuse the politicians.
Also unrelated to infra, I am worried about those unlucky Light Industry rolls. We were already "slightly behind" the moving target for consumer goods, failing that won't be a impression, and it'll be hard to blame it in Klimenko when Balakirev himself made the push to protect our domestic textile industry.
The disappearing crisis roll its the Middle East. So the oil crisis start will be determined solely by the normal Middle East roll then?
By the way, what WAS the resolution to the Congo crisis? We got some vague discord screenshots but nothing in the updates.
I'm tempted to go for it along with Bulk Launch Methods to see what wacky stuff comes out... but my own main uncertainty is whether it is a good idea to go for a grab bag of side projects at all, or if we should wait until some RpT gets freed up somewhere to get the []Next Generation Hydrogen Launcher.
Oh yeah. Our space missions actually rolled solidly in the double digits, all three of them this turn. Plus Soviet super-DUMBO making its advertized >900s impulse. This atomic rocket will let us salvage something from our engineer's pathological aversion to earth-orbit rendezvous missions!
But seriously: That getting locked into River Reversal is considered a critfail on sending it to SupSov, while playing as a character who really wants to do it, tells us something about the QM's beliefs about whether or not it is fundamentally a bad idea.
Though even in the short term it is a legit problem for us, since it locks in Infrastructure dice on the Ob dams as well as whatever other canal prep work that monstrosity will require, in a plan that is ready set to be tight on Infra dice. Yeah we'll have a focus, 17 infra dice to start with... but 7 of those will be eaten up by housing now that we need to replace the Mikoyankas on top of the normal work and the remaining 10 are split between rail electrification, high-speed rail, other dams, and non-autodice stuff like roads and finally building proper sewage. Granted part of my worries are because I keep trying to fit the Lena cascade in too. Going back over 60 Non-Ferrous price seems inevitable if we do not build that. Which... I suppose is not a disaster, but failing to keep the price of this important metal reasonable when the west has constantly pushed it down in their block will not amuse the politicians.
Also unrelated to infra, I am worried about those unlucky Light Industry rolls. We were already "slightly behind" the moving target for consumer goods, failing that won't be a impression, and it'll be hard to blame it in Klimenko when Balakirev himself made the push to protect our domestic textile industry.
Huh, somehow I never noticed we never had an East Asia roll. Speaking of, what WAS the result of that nat 100 (south) East Asia got last turn?
The disappearing crisis roll its the Middle East. So the oil crisis start will be determined solely by the normal Middle East roll then?
By the way, what WAS the resolution to the Congo crisis? We got some vague discord screenshots but nothing in the updates.
The French nat 100 was actually good for us... since it meant they delayed sticking their hand in the Algerian blender. Whether a high roll now would mean the population becoming OK with the war, or them more seriously considering getting out of it, I don't know. Also, when the war started France got a nat 1 on land warfare, meaning the conventional phase of the war lasted much longer than expected. Poor sods... nah they deserve it!
"Reusable launch vehicles in the 1970s" describes how the Space Shuttle came to be. I understand the details little, @fasquardon might be able to elaborate, but generally space nerds consider that to have been a very big mistake and hate it with a frothing passion.
I'm tempted to go for it along with Bulk Launch Methods to see what wacky stuff comes out... but my own main uncertainty is whether it is a good idea to go for a grab bag of side projects at all, or if we should wait until some RpT gets freed up somewhere to get the []Next Generation Hydrogen Launcher.
Oh yeah. Our space missions actually rolled solidly in the double digits, all three of them this turn. Plus Soviet super-DUMBO making its advertized >900s impulse. This atomic rocket will let us salvage something from our engineer's pathological aversion to earth-orbit rendezvous missions!
India got its shit together to a degree.
Mass killings by all sides reached the point of statistical noise and are no longer tracked. State for all intents and purposes does not exist.
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- Location
- The great frozen north
Oh I see. It wasn't South-East Asia, it was "South and East Asia" for SEA! Heh. After that split which one is south-east asia part of?
So India needed a critwin to just achieve normal functionality... here is hoping it's a lasting structural solution, and it doesn't detonate 3 decades later like the Levant after its nat 100.
HanEmpire
Delicious
India centralized some and became a federation rather than a confederation headed for a messy dissolution.
- Location
- The great frozen north
Speaking of influence in Africa, what is the status of Portuguese ex-colonies Angola and Mozambique? The 1970 update paints them as aligned with us against South-Africa and hosting anti-apartheid forces, but they are not marked as CMEA observers on the 1972 world map. Are they the fascist-ish flavor of anti-colonialists that have an alignment of convenience with us against Racismland? Or perhaps left-wing, but scared of aligning openly with us because America's dogs are next door?
I thought of those because of we got them in our sphere, we'd have the Congo fairly surrounded
I thought of those because of we got them in our sphere, we'd have the Congo fairly surrounded
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Probably only now becoming officially independent, Portugal was fighting wars there with the help of SA until recently.
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Why change rather than abolish? Let these capitalist measures flow into the dustbin of history comrades! Let us make copies of whatever they have even if it's worse then our stuff just to show we can!
iirc didn't the worst of the Aral Sea decline happen post breakup? Or am I getting the dates mixed up?
Exited to see if the River Reversal will rapid start global warming or cause a new expansion of the glaciers, afaik those were the two predicted outcomes, and are opposites, so we'll see lmao
edit: We could also just take the (probably fatal) political hit of not putting dice in it after being told to
That doesn't really make sense to me, you have to get the rivers of Central Asia from precipitation in the end, and the water can't come from the other side of the mountains as that would put Central Asia's rivers starting points in the rain shadow.
So I decided to look up a more academic text on it, and turns out most of the moisture in Central Asia seems to come from the West, specifically the Mediterranean and Caspian today, with occasionally Atlantic in one season... and presumably the Aral Sea back in the day as well. And the winds are said to typically blow this vapor in to the Tajikistan-Kyrgyzstan region, which would fit how that's the greener and more mountainous part of Central Asia.
Based on those points, I find it hard to not conclude that extra water that evaporates in the Caspian region or East of it shouldn't for a reasonable part end up in those same mountains as well then and presumably strengthen the rivers there that feed the Aral Sea. I just don't really see on these factors how it could work out differently.
This would also fit with a claim I saw awhile ago that the Central Asian region got a bit drier after the Aral Sea was lost as well.
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Either way our choices was to either let it turn it into a desert that will affect a ton of people badly, or do the only option that is on the table that is a actual possibility and not something one of the multiple scientists the got high with voz in the computer room when he was in charge suggests to do.
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nothing bad has ever come from getting high with Voz in the computer room smh
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think the fundamental problems with the Space Shuttle had a lot to do with the amount of parasitic mass required to build out the wings to give it acceptable cross-range capability for the Air Force's requirement that it be able to take off, do a thing, and land again at the same place after a single polar orbit.
Anyone familiar enough with orbital mechanics will be going "Fuu-" at this point, and it's basically a completely pointless capability unless you are planning to use your spaceplane as an orbital bomber.
Something more like a heavy lift rocket with a reusable first stage is much less insane under the circumstances. Though for Russia the problem of making sure those first stages come down somewhere safe is tricky.
- Location
- The great frozen north
Ok, NOW I understand why the USSR's interpretation of the space shuttle was that it was a secret US superweapon. Thanks you for that explanation.
OK, let's take the action. If they show any hint of adding excessive wings to it, we cancel it immediately. If it works... well it's not hydrogen launchers, but it would still be a reduction in surface to orbit costs for small to medium payloads.
Do note that to this day, no one has ever built a super cost effective air launched system. They absolutely work, and I guess they're ok, but they certainly have their limits cost wise as planes just don't add that much fuel savings in altitude and speed, what you'd really want is something that can hit a few times the speed of sound. But I guess one could hope that is potential development pathway along this route.
Alternately one could go for the hydrogen setup, which changes the fuel to something that is more usable in reusable rockets. One can always hope they'll eventually start bringing up landing rockets in the 80s already. Especially if we keep pushing computer tech, there would be some options there probably.
Alternately one could go for the hydrogen setup, which changes the fuel to something that is more usable in reusable rockets. One can always hope they'll eventually start bringing up landing rockets in the 80s already. Especially if we keep pushing computer tech, there would be some options there probably.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It seems fairly likely that our "reusable thingy" means "reusable first stage on conventional rocket," not "giant spaceplane." But I could be wrong.
It's us restarting the MKAS program again. The one that got canned a while back where we're launching a tiny reusable shuttle with disposable drop tank off the back of a giant airplane.
I suppose there's nothing stopping us from taking another crack at it? It'll probably be another money sink, and will likely cut into the payload demand for our light launcher, but that might not be quite as much a problem as if it was cutting into the launches of the RLA?