There is no such thing as a warning shot when you are in another nations territorial waters, they attacked and missed. This was the trade between to sovereign states and any attempt by France to stop trade between independent nations is an attack on both nations. France like every imperialist state believed themselves to be the arbiters of what other nations could do and found out it is not 1600 anymore and they do not have powers they believed they did. Accepting restrictions on our trade says the US controls what we trade and with who unacceptable to any independent country.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
- Start date
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obssesednuker
Commander of 10 Million Men
- Location
- In the Kremlin, activating Perimtr.
Look, our propaganda and foreign ministry arms are absolutely going to screech to high-heavens about "French piracy". If the agreement on arms to Algeria was also formal, they'd also probably be screeching about American hypocrisy on Freedom of Navigation, but since it's informal it's probably also not a public element of the agreement and it can be ditched the moment the Americans do something we don't like (so, the moment they swear in Ashbrook, basically).
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
A lot of the time I end up imagining posts made in the thread and discord both as arguments that occur in character in the Soviet halls of power.
This time, however, I can imagine nothing so much as the ghost of Otto von Bismarck himself wandering into the Presidium to give his diplomatic advice once more to the new foremost allies of Germany.
For the record, this was not a warning shot. Naval artillery aren't laser guns. If they put a round 20 meters from our ship, they meant to shoot us. There's a CEP of 100-200m on a at any meaningful range gun.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Advocate for Accepting the Terms
I got what I wanted. Let the Soviet Navy live rent free in the French mind for the next century.
I got what I wanted. Let the Soviet Navy live rent free in the French mind for the next century.
In terms of naval development from this incident, I expect Soviet naval SAM systems to get modifications allowing them to target ships in direct-fire. This engagement would have been extremely one-sided if the frigates and destroyers involved could have just salvoed off S-125 missiles into the French warships.
Still another consequence of this would be the Americans investing more into their navey and if there is one thing Americans can do is pour money into a military project till it is the best in the world.
I mean, didnt those ships literally ram each other? They were probably a lot closer than you might think.
obssesednuker
Commander of 10 Million Men
- Location
- In the Kremlin, activating Perimtr.
I'd also expect a boost in Termit orders. They killed that cruiser stone dead and even managed to nail a frigate, and a weapons system proving it's capability in combat - even if that performance also shows the capabilities flaws - tends to do wonder in other countries interest in acquiring them. I'm recalling how when HMS Sheffield got blown up, acquiring the Exocet became a huge fad among every tinpot military who could afford anti-ship missiles but couldn't afford the production program for domestic anti-ship missiles for at least a couple of years...
ITL USSR has a pretty competitive aerospace sector to the USA down to SV's love of space which bleeds into the military. So we could see a naval arms race developing which would be a huge waste of money, but cool. Lots of stuff that was left on the table because the OTL USSR couldn't really pose a blue-water threat.
The French had backed off at least some after the ramming action. We had enough space to turn in and fire missiles, so at least several km of spacing. I think a 20m short round impact at this range implies that we were well within the danger range of the gun, so chances are they were shooting at SKR-53.
- Location
- France
It's crazy how this is all a quest and yet we can see the kind of jingoism that we criticize so much as almost ending the world during the cold war. Like I understand that it is a quest and so its not really happening but I kinda imagine what was going in the head of people in the actual situations and how many were ready to end the world for appearance sake.
Reasons like this is why I love our in quest rivalry with the US it keeps both nations pushing forwards at breakneck speed like anime protagonists.
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms
I am not willing to sacrifice our hard won progress over a colonial war. Not when we can pressure the French in a dozen different ways. Africa is not yet lost Comrades.
I am not willing to sacrifice our hard won progress over a colonial war. Not when we can pressure the French in a dozen different ways. Africa is not yet lost Comrades.
[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms
Why is even this option so... Escalating? Continuing the support by other methods? Really? It is too late for that! We'd be lucky if just supporting Subsaharan rebels wouldn't be a reason to go nuclear. COMPLETE. ABANDONMENT. OF. ALGERIA. NOW!
Also , americans are giving concessions for some reason , which they really shouldn't since that encourages such behaviour in the future
Why is even this option so... Escalating? Continuing the support by other methods? Really? It is too late for that! We'd be lucky if just supporting Subsaharan rebels wouldn't be a reason to go nuclear. COMPLETE. ABANDONMENT. OF. ALGERIA. NOW!
Also , americans are giving concessions for some reason , which they really shouldn't since that encourages such behaviour in the future
That's why we'll instead use a surprise tool (it's perfidy).
- Location
- Wall Gazing
[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms
This is really good. Reparations to france, stopping official aid, and two frigates is more then worth this.
This is really good. Reparations to france, stopping official aid, and two frigates is more then worth this.
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Honestly, the sequence of events do not suggest that the French intended to shoot to kill immediately.
1) a single shell near-misses our frigate
2) our frigate has time to react, send a message that theyre being engaged, then return fire, hitting the french frigate hard enough to knock out its communications.
3) the french frigate, which is much bigger and more heavily armed then annihilates our frigate.
If they intended to sink our frigate in the first place I think that wouldve gone slightly different and step 3 wouldve been step 1.
Edit: Mind, I do think it was a big fuckup on the French ships part. They absolutely shouldve shot way clear to show that it was a warning shot and its not that unreasonable that our guy thought he got engaged. In hindsight however I dont think the facts line up with the idea that the French wanted to engage but just did it extremely incompetently.
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- Location
- Texas
[X] Advocate for Accepting the Terms
We were just protecting our trade. The French fired first, but we fired last. No need to escalate like the unreasonable French seem to want.
We were just protecting our trade. The French fired first, but we fired last. No need to escalate like the unreasonable French seem to want.
What we should do after the agreement is increase weapon shipments to Libya until there is so many guns and RPGs in all there territories that people stop considering them unusual. The MGB should flood every possible independence movement in France with weapons, TLL have some bombs and guns, FLNC you to, if you hate France and we can get to you, have some weapons
- Location
- Wall Gazing
Italy, Norway, and UK I'd guess. Maybe Belgium and Spain, but less likely.
The mutant catfish shall inherit the Revolution
[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms
It is a shame that there was a skirmish, a bigger one that it is because one of our ships panicked and started it instead of the French. But this also means that France is going to focus on Algeria even more now, meaning that it will become even easier for the rest of colonial empire to break free with the attention elsewhere.
Also, France knows we can defeat their Navy and can no longer have their Hawks dismiss it any more. Meaning they get taken out of power with less Hawkish leaders (unlikely) or they commit even more resources into the military slowing their growth even more. I am sure France will mobolize since it seems we are which would slow them even more. The US gets a big boost for helping de-escalate, our Hawks get a slap in the face that going in with big guns and itchy fingers do in fact piss off the very scared and militaristic nuclear power and have to deal with the fact the world nearly ended.
All in all, as long we don't blow the conference then this whole thing, while not good (almost ended the world, RIP Algeria, etc.) is not too bad either. Well, as long as there isn't another major crisis in the next few years atleast.
It is a shame that there was a skirmish, a bigger one that it is because one of our ships panicked and started it instead of the French. But this also means that France is going to focus on Algeria even more now, meaning that it will become even easier for the rest of colonial empire to break free with the attention elsewhere.
Also, France knows we can defeat their Navy and can no longer have their Hawks dismiss it any more. Meaning they get taken out of power with less Hawkish leaders (unlikely) or they commit even more resources into the military slowing their growth even more. I am sure France will mobolize since it seems we are which would slow them even more. The US gets a big boost for helping de-escalate, our Hawks get a slap in the face that going in with big guns and itchy fingers do in fact piss off the very scared and militaristic nuclear power and have to deal with the fact the world nearly ended.
All in all, as long we don't blow the conference then this whole thing, while not good (almost ended the world, RIP Algeria, etc.) is not too bad either. Well, as long as there isn't another major crisis in the next few years atleast.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
On the other hand, France also likely now knows Russia views this is serious enough to risk war with, is certainly about to be in the dog house with the US because anti Communism or not, risking literal nuclear war over Algeria of all places is not going to fly, and my personal favorite, we're going to find ways around France's ban on our arms imports.