Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
- Start date
- Alt. History Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[x] Plan Gold Glows Green
-[x]6935/6940 Resources (5 Reserve), 44 Dice Rolled
-[x]Infrastructure (3/3 Dice, 410 R)
--[x]Civilian Airports(Stage 3/5), 2 Dice (220 R), 97%/99%
--[x]ESA, 1 Dice (190 R), 0%/0%
-[x]Heavy Industry (10/10 Dice, 2670 R)
--[x]Donets Coal Basin Mechanization, 2 Dice (370 R), 100%/100%
--[x]Kuzbas Deposit Exploitation(Stage 4/5), 1 Dice (130 R), 0%/0%
--[x]Atomash(Stage 1/3), 7 Dice (2170 R), 100%/100%
-[x]Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
--[x]Station Program, 1 Dice
--[x]RLA Block Modernization, 1 Dice
--[x]Orbital Telescope Program, 1 Dice
-[x]Light Industry (6/6 Dice, 920 R)
--[x]Mixed Textile Industries(Stage 1/3), 2 Dice (320 R), 59%/72%
--[x]Expanded Paper Industries, 2 Dice (340 R), 92%/97%
--[x]Engineered Wood Production, 2 Dice (260 R), 36%/50%
-[x]Chemical Industry (11/11 Dice, 2070 R)
--[x]Gas Infrastructure, 2 Dice (260 R), 59%/72%
--[x]West Siberian Petroleum Fields(Stage 2/6), 1 Dice (130 R), 80%/95%
--[x]Plastic Industries(Stage 3/5), 2 Dice (420 R), 79%/88%
--[x]Pharmaceutical Industry Modernization, 2 Dice (500 R), 63%/75%
--[x]Stabilization of Agrochemicals(Stage 1/2), 2 Dice (380 R), 59%/72%
--[x]Synthetic Rubber Plants(Stage 4/4), 2 Dice (380 R), 61%/73%
-[x]Agriculture (4/4 Dice, 520 R)
--[x]Development of the Southern Volga, 1 Dice (130 R), 0%/0%
--[x]Water Management Programs, 3 Dice (390 R), 87%/93%
-[x]Services (3/3 Dice, 345 R)
--[x]Expanding Preparation Schools, 2 Dice (220 R), 75%/85%
--[x]Town-Market Construction, 1 Dice (125 R), 15%/30%
-[x]Bureaucracy (6/3+3 Forced Dice, 0 R)
--[x]Pension Modernization, 1 Dice
--[x]Restructuring of the Passport System, 1 Dice
--[x]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Pharmaceutical Industry Modernization), 1 Dice
--[x]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Atomash), 1 Dice
--[x]Fuel Oil Reduction Plans, 1 Dice
--[x]Minimal Ecological Standards, 1 Dice
It might not be a good idea but I want to "decisively solve" the energy crisis now so I am still voting for this.
-[x]6935/6940 Resources (5 Reserve), 44 Dice Rolled
-[x]Infrastructure (3/3 Dice, 410 R)
--[x]Civilian Airports(Stage 3/5), 2 Dice (220 R), 97%/99%
--[x]ESA, 1 Dice (190 R), 0%/0%
-[x]Heavy Industry (10/10 Dice, 2670 R)
--[x]Donets Coal Basin Mechanization, 2 Dice (370 R), 100%/100%
--[x]Kuzbas Deposit Exploitation(Stage 4/5), 1 Dice (130 R), 0%/0%
--[x]Atomash(Stage 1/3), 7 Dice (2170 R), 100%/100%
-[x]Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
--[x]Station Program, 1 Dice
--[x]RLA Block Modernization, 1 Dice
--[x]Orbital Telescope Program, 1 Dice
-[x]Light Industry (6/6 Dice, 920 R)
--[x]Mixed Textile Industries(Stage 1/3), 2 Dice (320 R), 59%/72%
--[x]Expanded Paper Industries, 2 Dice (340 R), 92%/97%
--[x]Engineered Wood Production, 2 Dice (260 R), 36%/50%
-[x]Chemical Industry (11/11 Dice, 2070 R)
--[x]Gas Infrastructure, 2 Dice (260 R), 59%/72%
--[x]West Siberian Petroleum Fields(Stage 2/6), 1 Dice (130 R), 80%/95%
--[x]Plastic Industries(Stage 3/5), 2 Dice (420 R), 79%/88%
--[x]Pharmaceutical Industry Modernization, 2 Dice (500 R), 63%/75%
--[x]Stabilization of Agrochemicals(Stage 1/2), 2 Dice (380 R), 59%/72%
--[x]Synthetic Rubber Plants(Stage 4/4), 2 Dice (380 R), 61%/73%
-[x]Agriculture (4/4 Dice, 520 R)
--[x]Development of the Southern Volga, 1 Dice (130 R), 0%/0%
--[x]Water Management Programs, 3 Dice (390 R), 87%/93%
-[x]Services (3/3 Dice, 345 R)
--[x]Expanding Preparation Schools, 2 Dice (220 R), 75%/85%
--[x]Town-Market Construction, 1 Dice (125 R), 15%/30%
-[x]Bureaucracy (6/3+3 Forced Dice, 0 R)
--[x]Pension Modernization, 1 Dice
--[x]Restructuring of the Passport System, 1 Dice
--[x]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Pharmaceutical Industry Modernization), 1 Dice
--[x]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Atomash), 1 Dice
--[x]Fuel Oil Reduction Plans, 1 Dice
--[x]Minimal Ecological Standards, 1 Dice
It might not be a good idea but I want to "decisively solve" the energy crisis now so I am still voting for this.
Last edited:
- Location
- Lost in the internet
[X] Plan Attempting to Maintain the Good Times (By Connecting People)
[X] Plan Gold Glows Green
[X] Plan Gold Glows Green
- Location
- Poland
[X]Plan Stopping Soviet Stagflation with Smart Salary Schemes
[X] Plan Attempting to Maintain the Good Times (By Connecting People)
[X] Plan Attempting to Maintain the Good Times (By Connecting People)
[X]Plan Stopping Soviet Stagflation with Smart Salary Schemes
- Location
- UTC+0
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
[X] Plan Attempting to Maintain the Good Times (By Connecting People)
[X]Twisted Ribbon Design
Honestly, NTR's are ambitious as it is, DUMBO on 70s tech is already a big technical leap.
As for the plan, voting again for maintaining the good times, its imo the best plan at catching up with our Services target, which lets not forget, we are pretty behind on. We need to get our asses on the seat and adress it. It also doesn't risk any energy crisis barring bad Middle East rolls and should keep our labor prices nice and stable in the current bracket.
[X]Twisted Ribbon Design
Honestly, NTR's are ambitious as it is, DUMBO on 70s tech is already a big technical leap.
As for the plan, voting again for maintaining the good times, its imo the best plan at catching up with our Services target, which lets not forget, we are pretty behind on. We need to get our asses on the seat and adress it. It also doesn't risk any energy crisis barring bad Middle East rolls and should keep our labor prices nice and stable in the current bracket.
[X]Plan Stopping Soviet Stagflation with Smart Salary Schemes
[X] Plan We Got to (Safely) Move These Color TVs
-[X]Twisted Ribbon Design
-[X]6930/6940 Resources (10 Reserve), 45 Dice Rolled
-[X]Infrastructure (5/3 Dice, 750 R)
--[X]Western Passenger Rail Expansion, 1 Dice (150 R), 0%/0%
--[X]Civilian Airports(Stage 3/5), 2 Dice (220 R), 97%/99%
--[X]ESA, 2 Dice (380 R), 48%/62%
-[X]Heavy Industry (10/10 Dice, 2400 R)
--[X]Kursk Steel Mills(Stage 2/2), 2 Dice (420 R), 85%/92%
--[X]Kansk-Achinsk Basin Exploitation(Stage 3/5), 3 Dice (480 R), 99%/100%
--[X]Atomash(Stage 1/3), 3 Dice (930 R), 65%/75%
--[X]Saratov Machine Building Plant, 1 Dice (310 R), 79%/94%
--[X]Gorky Automotive Plant Modernization, 1 Dice (260 R), 100%/100%
-[X]Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Inflatable Section Experiments, 1 Dice
--[X]RLA Block Modernization, 1 Dice
--[X]Orbital Telescope Program, 1 Dice
-[X]Light Industry (5/6 Dice, 850 R)
--[X]Engineered Wood Production, 2 Dice (260 R), 36%/50%
--[X]Color Television Modernization, 2 Dice (380 R), 18%/28%
--[X]Second Generation Calculators, 1 Dice (210 R), 30%/45%
-[X]Chemical Industry (10/11 Dice, 1820 R)
--[X]Gas Infrastructure, 2 Dice (260 R), 59%/72%
--[X]West Siberian Petroleum Fields(Stage 2/6), 2 Dice (260 R), 100%/100%
--[X]Plastic Industries(Stage 3/5), 2 Dice (420 R), 79%/88%
--[X]Pharmaceutical Industry Modernization, 2 Dice (500 R), 63%/75%
--[X]Stabilization of Agrochemicals(Stage 1/2), 2 Dice (380 R), 59%/72%
-[X]Agriculture (3/4 Dice, 390 R)
--[X]Domestic Meat Programs(Stage 4/10), 1 Dice (130 R), 0%/0%
--[X]Water Management Programs, 2 Dice (260 R), 32%/45%
-[X]Services (4/3 Dice, 720 R)
--[X]Transportation Enterprises(Stage 3/5), 3 Dice (570 R), 93%/97%
--[X]Localized Transport Services, 1 Dice (150 R), 79%/94%
-[X]Bureaucracy (6/3+3 Forced Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Pension Modernization, 1 Dice
--[X]Restructuring of the Passport System, 1 Dice
--[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Pharmaceutical Industry Modernization), 1 Dice
--[X]Fuel Oil Reduction Plans, 1 Dice
--[X]Minimal Ecological Standards, 1 Dice
--[X]Educational Attainment Reforms, 1 Dice
Changes from the original Color TV plan:
Added nuclear engine decision (Twisted Ribbon Design)
Infra: -1 Rail, +1 Airports
HI: -1 Donets Coal, +1 Kansk-Achinsk Coal (guaranteed one stage instead of 2% chance of nothing)
Rocketry: -1 Bulk Launch, +1 Inflatable Section
LI: -1 Color TVs
but still has a chance of finishing. They should be a strong driver of microchips alongside the calculators.
CI: +1 Western Siberian Oil (removes 5% chance of failure)
Agri: +1 Domestic Meat
Quite a lot of changes, the biggest two being the removal of the 2% coal and 5% oil chances of failure, alongside putting a bit of meat into the plan at the cost of dropping TVs from 85% completion chance down to 28%.
Compared to the currently leading Plan Stopping Soviet Stagflation with Smart Salary Schemes
Rocketry: -1 Stations, +1 Orbital Telescopes
LI: -3 Textiles, -1 Wood, +2 Color TVs
CI: +1 Western Siberian Oil (removes 5% chance of failure)
Agri: +1 Domestic Meat
-[X]Twisted Ribbon Design
-[X]6930/6940 Resources (10 Reserve), 45 Dice Rolled
-[X]Infrastructure (5/3 Dice, 750 R)
--[X]Western Passenger Rail Expansion, 1 Dice (150 R), 0%/0%
--[X]Civilian Airports(Stage 3/5), 2 Dice (220 R), 97%/99%
--[X]ESA, 2 Dice (380 R), 48%/62%
-[X]Heavy Industry (10/10 Dice, 2400 R)
--[X]Kursk Steel Mills(Stage 2/2), 2 Dice (420 R), 85%/92%
--[X]Kansk-Achinsk Basin Exploitation(Stage 3/5), 3 Dice (480 R), 99%/100%
--[X]Atomash(Stage 1/3), 3 Dice (930 R), 65%/75%
--[X]Saratov Machine Building Plant, 1 Dice (310 R), 79%/94%
--[X]Gorky Automotive Plant Modernization, 1 Dice (260 R), 100%/100%
-[X]Rocketry (3/3 Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Inflatable Section Experiments, 1 Dice
--[X]RLA Block Modernization, 1 Dice
--[X]Orbital Telescope Program, 1 Dice
-[X]Light Industry (5/6 Dice, 850 R)
--[X]Engineered Wood Production, 2 Dice (260 R), 36%/50%
--[X]Color Television Modernization, 2 Dice (380 R), 18%/28%
--[X]Second Generation Calculators, 1 Dice (210 R), 30%/45%
-[X]Chemical Industry (10/11 Dice, 1820 R)
--[X]Gas Infrastructure, 2 Dice (260 R), 59%/72%
--[X]West Siberian Petroleum Fields(Stage 2/6), 2 Dice (260 R), 100%/100%
--[X]Plastic Industries(Stage 3/5), 2 Dice (420 R), 79%/88%
--[X]Pharmaceutical Industry Modernization, 2 Dice (500 R), 63%/75%
--[X]Stabilization of Agrochemicals(Stage 1/2), 2 Dice (380 R), 59%/72%
-[X]Agriculture (3/4 Dice, 390 R)
--[X]Domestic Meat Programs(Stage 4/10), 1 Dice (130 R), 0%/0%
--[X]Water Management Programs, 2 Dice (260 R), 32%/45%
-[X]Services (4/3 Dice, 720 R)
--[X]Transportation Enterprises(Stage 3/5), 3 Dice (570 R), 93%/97%
--[X]Localized Transport Services, 1 Dice (150 R), 79%/94%
-[X]Bureaucracy (6/3+3 Forced Dice, 0 R)
--[X]Pension Modernization, 1 Dice
--[X]Restructuring of the Passport System, 1 Dice
--[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Pharmaceutical Industry Modernization), 1 Dice
--[X]Fuel Oil Reduction Plans, 1 Dice
--[X]Minimal Ecological Standards, 1 Dice
--[X]Educational Attainment Reforms, 1 Dice
Changes from the original Color TV plan:
Added nuclear engine decision (Twisted Ribbon Design)
Infra: -1 Rail, +1 Airports
HI: -1 Donets Coal, +1 Kansk-Achinsk Coal (guaranteed one stage instead of 2% chance of nothing)
Rocketry: -1 Bulk Launch, +1 Inflatable Section
LI: -1 Color TVs
but still has a chance of finishing. They should be a strong driver of microchips alongside the calculators.CI: +1 Western Siberian Oil (removes 5% chance of failure)
Agri: +1 Domestic Meat
Quite a lot of changes, the biggest two being the removal of the 2% coal and 5% oil chances of failure, alongside putting a bit of meat into the plan at the cost of dropping TVs from 85% completion chance down to 28%.
Compared to the currently leading Plan Stopping Soviet Stagflation with Smart Salary Schemes
Rocketry: -1 Stations, +1 Orbital Telescopes
LI: -3 Textiles, -1 Wood, +2 Color TVs
CI: +1 Western Siberian Oil (removes 5% chance of failure)
Agri: +1 Domestic Meat
- Location
- The great frozen north
Assuming that was serious and not a meme proposal: No.
Firstly, if we give the enterprises more funding than clawing them back will be heck. Secondly, the threadviet's vote for Light Industry minister was made anticipating heavy MNKh direct action there. Thirdly, leaving a large chunk of our dice (hence personnel) idle, especially after bringing ESA online, will provoke pointed questions. Fourthly, while it could make updates come faster, putting general growth on autopilot sounds boring.
Fifthly [deep breath, puts on shades] WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE? We are the MNKH, We are the USSR, we are the vanguard state! What liberal farce would it be, if we reduce the state to merely building "essential infrastructure" and leaving all the provision of goods to the wannabe robber-barons calling themselves Enterprise Managers? There is never ever an excuse for the worker's state to slack in its duties!
This made me realize how cursed our space program is (again). There's two missions suitable for a multi-launch Earth Orbit Rendezvous that the RLA would excel at (Mars and Moon). Both of those rolled a 3 which caused the mission planners to get drunk and propose everything EXCEPT Earth Orbit Rendezvous, forcing us to cancel it to avoid an utter mess. Makes me sad.
I know right? And that "twisted ribbon" sounds a lot more complex than the axial->radial->axial design of DUMBO. I don't fully understand why we cancelled the straight through project totally. I read it as them deciding that since every rocket is going to be precise artisan hand-craft that gets quadruple checked anyway there is no point in going for simplicity of assembly. That's shaky logic given complexity is always more risk of trouble, and I hope to Koba our designers know better!
Edited my post to approval vote Notgreat's plan too for now. Y'know, unless we dump plenty free dice into labor-hungry LI projects, I'm not certain we CAN keep labor costs up this plan (without compromising primary goals at least). For sure, good thing we didn't do immigration reform!
[X] Plan Attempting to Maintain the Good Times (By Connecting People)
While stations are cool space telescopes are the killer app for space science. There's all sorts of discoveries waiting to be made and the images they send back will do a huge amount for the public profile of the space program. I'd really implore favoring this over starting the station program right now.
While stations are cool space telescopes are the killer app for space science. There's all sorts of discoveries waiting to be made and the images they send back will do a huge amount for the public profile of the space program. I'd really implore favoring this over starting the station program right now.
What's changed is we're much closer to implementing a space station.
A reuseable mini-shuttle would be ideal for supporting a space station. However, it would still only be a mildly useful science project. While it would over the long term of a space program yield cost savings (unless we rolled garbage), the savings per flight wouldn't be very much and having a mini shuttle might get in the way out of getting a VA and FGB modernization program down the road.
So not that much has changed really. It isn't a crazy thing to spend money on, but I am distinctly unenthused.
That the failure state of an attempt to make a pulsed design is likely a somewhat odd continuous flow design, I'm not too worried about the extra complexity. And in some ways it might even be a simpler design. However, the extra 5 rpt a turn wouldn't be compatible with a station program unless we shelved the RLA modernization and worked on hydrogen engines instead.
Not a good trade IMO. The pulsed design is a nice to have, but not something we urgently need, if we start the station program we should prioritize other things first and stick to just the ribbon design for sure.
I was sure that a while back we got Word of Blackstar saying that we'd been over cautious and the army had rolled well enough to avoid the OTL issues with the RMBK type design.
Also, the OTL RMBK was a design from the 50s, if we started work on a civilian design now, we could make use of almost 20 years more experience with nuclear reactors than the RMBK designers of OTL had to make a modernized civilian version of the army design...
And the Chernobyl disaster needed a whole bunch of crit fails in a row... A failure in making a passively unstable design, a rushed effort to civilianize the design in the 50s, the decision that nuclear engineers didn't need to staff the reactors anymore, the decision to test questions around safety issues at Chernobyl in a dangerous way, the decision to reschedule the test to be the responsibility of the less-experienced and less qualified night shift... Everything had to go wrong just the right way.
The big questions about revisiting the channel-type design now are:
1) would spending 200 resources per dice on a 150 point project (so on average 3 dice and an omake) be worthwhile at a time when we have a whole bunch of expensive projects that we need to have in place for next plan.
2) are there enough people who have experience with army designs who we could draw on to leven our civilian reactor crews with some demobilized veterans? The pressurized water designs that we chose (and that are standard in OTL) are not particularly good designs for large civilian reactors, but being able to draw on the pool of retired submarine and aircraft carrier crew for people who've learned how to look after pressurized water designs on more passively safe versions of the big nasty civilian reactors has mostly been a benefit (one of the things that went wrong at 3 mile island was people made calls that would have been safe with the smaller naval reactors they were used to, but that were not safe on a bigger civilian reactor).
Am not sure if it is a worthwhile investment... That said, if we're expecting a big coal crunch, will we be able to keep up with the heavy steel demand of the pressurized water reactors? RMBK-type designs are much less steel intensive.
The telescope sounds freakin' awesome. A Hubble-equivalent launched 15 years early would produce alot of science to shame the Americans with. That said, the manned program really has languished for a while now, and our cosmonauts will be running out of useful work to do with just the VA-FGB to work with. And as you say, we do have the room in the budget for a space station now...
Yeah, a station now sounds fair enough.
Calculators are a HUGE deal at this point in time. Passing up on them would be extremely foolish.
Votes for this turn:
[X]Plan Stopping Soviet Stagflation with Smart Salary Schemes
[X] Plan We Got to (Safely) Move These Color TVs
Encouraging domestic currency reforms sounds like it might be a good idea so that we have a smooth transition to the Euro, and don't have a shock to our economy when internal prices and external prices become the same... But hopefully leaving it for a year won't be too bad...
Regards,
fasquardon
- Location
- The great frozen north
Yeah. Getting an UV telescope would let us make some unique discoveries about the universe, way cooler than some early zero-G experiments in a tin can. Thing is the reduced cost and new text have spooked the Threadviet. Can we endure SupSov barking down our necks for letting America run ahead until the next time we have 20 RpT to spare?
...Actually, how much power DOES the SupSov have to boss us around space-wise, aside from enforcing the spending cap? If we don't need to worry about them turning on us for not doing stations I'd love the telescope, but that's a sizable IF.
EDIT: Ultimately, it will feel easier to cram in the telescope somewhere after we start the station, than to cram in the station after we start the telescope. When the RLA upgrade is done perhaps, if nothing shinier shows up first.
Last edited:
We'll probably find 10 RpT of rocketry budget within the next few years, either from a budget cap increase or from 1-2 small programs concluding/being canceled. 20 is a much larger chunk to come up with in any one specific year, which yeah is my logic behind trying to lock in the station funding now while we've got it.
- Location
- The great frozen north
Because of the light launcher and the space suits finally being verified I presume?
1)Two dice not three, remember we have a bonus of +29. So not too far from a plastics stage.
2)Are our newest carriers even nuclear? Either way, would the pool of retired army reactor men be that much smaller than the pool of ex nuclear sub people? (Also, perhaps I am misreading but that anecdote about 3MI happening because the operator mistakenly fell back on their experience with submarine reactors sounds like an argument against hiring them.)
Interesting point on the steel, aside from the coming Yenisei Cascade mills there are no more new ones to build... but in practice, I expect the steel cost of the reactors is represented by the +steel price of the Atomash stages.
Heh, I'm starting to be convinced myself! The others have already alleviated my fear of a chernobyl. I would not mind completing the project this plan just to further general research, but I remain skeptical we can afford the extra autodice.
- Pronouns
- He/They
If we're satisfied enough with the safety of possible RBMK-alikes to consider them, and the cost/power will be similar to that of the VVERs, would it be practical to finish the Atomash stage we started and then building two stages of Alternative Reactor Programs? That would still get us 3 nuclear autodice at much less capital cost. Atomash wouldn't be producing as cheap with only one stage but if it saves 1400? R upfront that would cover a lot of years of more expensive production, even ignoring interest.
[X]Plan Stopping Soviet Stagflation with Smart Salary Schemes
Last edited: