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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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@Azel Would you be willing to send some minions along with Amy to the PoF? Maybe the Azer Raiders we captured a while back, a dozen Minotaurs (edit: nvm these guys don't have fire resistance and have no Dnd knowledge, maybe a few phoenixes instead?), a few Ravens and a couple Erinyes, on a captured whaler ship? The Raiders will be used to the environment and might have some contacts we can use, the minotaurs will be up for the fight and gain exp and the Erinyes will probably treat it as a reward (glory in battle and all that, maybe make it a rotational assignment?).

After all, sending one guy (even if he is a dragon) to effectively make us a foothold seems a bit optimistic. If we only send Amy, then he's going to run into the same problem we have where he could probably take a settlement just fine but wouldn't be able to hold it. If we're going to invest items and equipment into Amy we might as well go all the way and set him up for success.
 
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[X] Azel

Azel is utterly reasonable here and gives him an option to rule over creatures he doesn't consider mayflies. I like it.

Goldfish said:
BTW, what age category are we expecting Amrelath to be once we get him in a fleshsuit?
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He is Young Adult right now: A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover | Page 6847

However, since his mind is significantly older than that, even if we ignore the time he spend unconscious as a battery, we might be able to age up his new body to Adult and he could still "fill it out" in mind and soul, so to say.
 
Vote count

EDIT: A solid lead. I think it's safe to close it.
Adhoc vote count started by Paradosi on Nov 4, 2018 at 3:50 AM, finished with 243361 posts and 26 votes.
  • [X] Plan Making Fire-Lemonade
    -[X] "Little love would you gain from those you call mayflies and for one who has lived through a sliver of eternity, it would be taxing to keep abreast of their affairs. Months and years you gave me freely, a blink for one such as you, and now, as the world changes ever faster, you would claim dominion over something that grew ever more alien with each passing moment. No. I think your might, talents and perspective is more suited to those who can comprehend and appreciate them."
    -[X] Point towards the Efreeti loot.
    -[X] "The Efreeti have grown fat and rich of their dominion over the Eternal Furnace. Now though, their slaves are in open rebellion and these riches are laid bare for those with the strength and temerity to claim them."
    -[X] "I have dealing with the Salamanders, though only tacit alliance so far, as I lack the time to tie them closer to me. You could aid them in my name. And if you show them the wisdom of bending the knee before me, who else then you would be better to rule them in my name?"
    [X] Accept in principle should he show himself fit for such a task once he is returned to life
    -[X] We will likely wait for the years of his service to end in order to properly evaluate him.
    [X] "Dragons are meant to rule are we not? long living, enough to see our works bear fruit, powerful, enough to hold back armies if our own forces are elsewhere, glorious, that our subjects know that serving us is worthy"
    -[X] "Many are the lands that would benefit from such a rule, does any place in particular hold your attention? I could lend you aid so that you might conquer a place, so that our new subjects never doubt your might, if not, i will need time to figure out where you are needed most"
    [X] Accept in principle should he show himself fit for such a task once he is returned to life, but remind him that this world has languished under the dominion of Dragons once before, and as Amrelath knows quite well, it was an unmitigated disaster for Dragonkind.
    -[X] Once the agreed upon years of service to us have run their course, then he will be eligible to become the governor of a city. The city's size and wealth will be determined by how well we judge he has learned to rule in that time. We will give him opportunities to learn, through education and observation, so that he can prepare himself for the task.
    -[X] If Amrelath cannot overcome his Chaotic Evil nature, he will never be considered for a governorship. The Imperium is a realm of laws, fairly written and justly applied. On this there will be no compromise, and should he not manage to truly shift his Alignment to Lawful Evil, or perhaps even Lawful Neutral, through self-reflection and personal growth, there will be no governorship.
    [X] Accept in principle should he show himself fit for such a task once he is returned to life
    -[X] At least we will wait for the years of his service to end in order to properly evaluate him.
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Honestly, the divisiveness in the vote is kind of unnecessary. @Azel, @TotallyNotEvil, can't we simply offer the PoF option to him and let him decide?

Amrelath isn't a child, he's a several milennia-old dracolich. Lay out his options and let him at 'em.
 
Trickster314 said:
@Azel Would you be willing to send some minions along with Amy to the PoF? Maybe the Azer Raiders we captured a while back, a dozen Minotaurs (edit: nvm these guys don't have fire resistance and have no Dnd knowledge, maybe a few phoenixes instead?), a few Ravens and a couple Erinyes, on a captured whaler ship? The Raiders will be used to the environment and might have some contacts we can use, the minotaurs will be up for the fight and gain exp and the Erinyes will probably treat it as a reward (glory in battle and all that, maybe make it a rotational assignment?).

After all, sending one guy (even if he is a dragon) to effectively make us a foothold seems a bit optimistic. If we only send Amy, then he's going to run into the same problem we have where he could probably take a settlement just fine but wouldn't be able to hold it. If we're going to invest items and equipment into Amy we might as well go all the way and set him up for success.
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Obviously. I'm committed to make this work and have Amrelath take over our PoF efforts. Unlike what TNE is accusing me of, I have no intention to just dump him there.
 
@DragonParadox can I stat up Amrelath, or did you already do it? If I can, are there any constraints or predetermined choices?

Azel said:
Obviously. I'm committed to make this work and have Amrelath take over our PoF efforts. Unlike what TNE is accusing me of, I have no intention to just dump him there.
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Excellent. What are you currently thinking of? Periodically sending Companions to work with him? Going there ourselves for big operations?
We need social links with him.
Maybe forging economic links with him could help?
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
@DragonParadox can I stat up Amrelath, or did you already do it? If I can, are there any constraints or predetermined choices?
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I was just about to ask the same thing. It's a mistake to send him to the Plane of Fire, but if we're going to do it, we should at least make sure he's the best Amrelath he can be.

@DragonParadox Can we do his spell selection? And is he going to still be Young Adult or can he have moved up to Adult?

@Azel We also need to enchant him a lot of gear. The current crafting schedule is already full, barring a few possible postponements, but we definitely can't squeeze in everything he'll need. At the very least, we should keep him through through the end of next month. That would make him available to assist with Lys next month, too.
 
@Goldfish, @SereneNebula, @Zoxabels, @Massgamer, @das_slash, @Absylon Quilby, @Deliste, @SeekerofLight, @DkArthas, @Algalon, @Loinvoyant, @MTB

Let me spell it out again. My vote is not "exiling Amrelath like a leper" as TNE is accusing me off. My vote is trusting Amrelath to be reasonable and useful minion for us by giving him a task where he can make a meaningful impact and regularly interact with people.

TNEs plan is basically letting Amrelath rot in the Shadow Tower and bringing him out now and then for... something. He still hasn't articulated any kind of idea what we would have him do and frankly, there isn't much going on on Planetos where he would help. The most likely result of his vote is that we take him out of the tower once in a blue moon to serve as a trained attack dog, burn down a few hundred people for us and then immediately telling him to stay put again. How is that supposed to "socially acclimate him"?

My plan has him interact regularly with people and give him a productive long-term task to pursue. We are not "dumping" him on the PoF, but letting him take over our efforts there and will supply, support and aid him. Neither does my plan mean that he is not allowed to come back to Planetos. We just need to give him a Plane-Shift item and he can come over on his own whenever he likes.

His initial deployment would be to support Yrten and Siduri in some raiding, having him interact with and hopefully befriend the crew of their ship. Once he got acclimated there, we can look how to proceed further. All the while, every PoF action we undertake, be it combat or diplomacy, will involve him, which becomes a workable solution simply because his temperament and appearance is far less of an obstacle in the PoF.

So I implore you to vote for a long-term assignment that is beneficial for everyone involved instead of making vague promises and letting Amrelath stay put in his dog-house.
 
Goldfish said:
@Azel We also need to enchant him a lot of gear. The current crafting schedule is already full, barring a few possible postponements, but we definitely can't squeeze in everything he'll need. At the very least, we should keep him through through the end of next month. That would make him available to assist with Lys next month, too.
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And I never said "dump him there right now". That's just TNE flinging shit at me to discredit my plan, not my intention.

If he agrees, we work out the details. If we want to accelerate this, we can just drop 200,000 IM in Amun Kelisk to get him equipped without impacting our crafting time.
 
@Goldfish Amrelath has spent eons within a school, with nothing to do but think and hate. I think that he should be a Loredrake (the Sovereign Archetype that reduces HP slightly but improves spellcasting). Skill-wise I would stick to the racial ones (they're good and fitting anyway: some Lore, some Intimidate and Diplomacy, and some Spot and Listen) but feats-wise I'm hesitating between making him into a breath blaster (risky considering that he breathes fire) or just taking Entangling Exhalation and making him a melee beatstick. He could use his arcane spells for utility and escape (he isn't a primary spellcaster if he's only a young adult), and focus on melee in combat. Sounds good?

EDIT: A Leap Attack Dragon is just insanely cool. It pounces like a cat, but it's huge!

@Azel the vote is closed, you won. See DP's last post.
 
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[X] Azel

Some major things.
1. We don't need to send him off right this second. We'll obviously have his gear crafted first.
2. Even after the ritual is complete, he needs to be aged properly by Yss. And Yss will need to wait until after the Guardian Nagas are gained via summoned sacrifices (should be next turn if the schedule is kind and we have a free day).
3. The idea that we somehow abandon him by having him take over our Plane of Fire operations is absurd. That's as much a part of the Imperium as anything on Prime Material. Azel explicitly stated his intent to give Amrelath a Plane Shift item, so this notion that he's getting abandoned just doesn't hold any water for me.
4. Acclimatizing him? With this, not only can we bring him to Prime Material for various missions and diplomatic events as needed, but in the Plane of Fire he'll be interacting with plenty of creatures that he's far more likely to respect instead of literally thinking of everyone around him as mayflies. We will be interacting with him semi-regularly, and we will be teaching him how to rule and dragging him away from any more problematic behaviors that might crop up.
5. Amrelath is obviously getting the Imperium's full support. He'd be a part of the Imperium, not a freaking castoff.
6. We can help with his first conquest and find him a suitable base from which to build up his own state under our authority, as well as getting him his first subjects. We could probably convince Baella and her pod to join up alongside the Fire Elementals we assigned to accompany her. We can also grow him a fire-proof Weirwood as a symbolic (you're a proper part of the Imperium now).
 
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Azel said:
Let me spell it out again. My vote is not "exiling Amrelath like a leper" as TNE is accusing me off. My vote is trusting Amrelath to be reasonable and useful minion for us by giving him a task where he can make a meaningful impact and regularly interact with people.
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To spell it out for the first time: I compared the plans and chose the one that lets us the freedom to give Amrelath missions/time to get to know what he really wants for now. Because shoehorning him into a role he's not suited for isn't smart.
Although I have to admit that your plan has immediate benefits within the timespan of the quest, whereas 'plan for the future' is more driven by a role-playing and not so much pragmatist approach.
 
Duesal said:
4. Acclimatizing him? With this, not only can we bring him to Prime Material for various missions and diplomatic events as needed, but in the Plane of Fire he'll be interacting with plenty of creatures that he's far more likely to respect instead of literally thinking of everyone around him as mayflies. We will be interacting with him semi-regularly, and we will be teaching him how to rule and dragging him away from any more problematic behaviors that might crop up.
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This bears emphasizing. With my plan, we can fetch him for whatever we want to do with him on Planetos just fine 9 times out of 10. But instead of sitting on his haunches in the Shadow Tower in the meant-time, he will be among people and do stuff instead of just laying around and waiting for us.

To put it more clear: On the PoF he has a chance to form his own attachments. Something he never did while in the Scholarium. He didn't even interact with companions without prompting. The PoF will prompt him though and thus he will have to socialize at least a bit.
MTB said:
To spell it out for the first time: I compared the plans and chose the one that lets us the freedom to give Amrelath missions/time to get to know what he really wants for now. Because shoehorning him into a role he's not suited for isn't smart.
Although I have to admit that your plan has immediate benefits within the timespan of the quest, whereas 'plan for the future' is more driven by a role-playing and not so much pragmatist approach.
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We are not writing up a binding contract here that will kill him if he ever stays away from the PoF for more then a day. This is something he can do right now that will help him to get among people again and that while doing something useful for us. If we later have something else for him to do, then he can just do it.

TNE has no idea what so ever what to do with him and this is what irks me. Had he proposed something else, anything else, I might have considered it. But as it stands, Amrelath would sit around in a corner and be grumpy at the world most of his time with his vote.
 
Ooh, his realm could do the "nonlethally farm the Fire Whales" plan!
That sounds like a good source of income. And it would attract fire whales (you live here and you aren't hunted), which makes the whole place cooler.

And the more I think about it, the more I love the idea of "Leap Attack Amrelath". He just needs Pounce somehow (through an item of the level 2 Sorcerer spell Lion's Charge for example - or he could learn the spell himself) and he really is murder on legs.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Ooh, his realm could do the "nonlethally farm the Fire Whales" plan!
That sounds like a good source of income. And it would attract fire whales (you live here and you aren't hunted), which makes the whole place cooler.

And the more I think about it, the more I love the idea of "Leap Attack Amrelath". He just needs Pounce somehow (through an item of the level 2 Sorcerer spell Lion's Charge for example - or he could learn the spell himself) and he really is murder on legs.
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We could also look into getting him Mephit minions. They would certainly help with that plan.

Though I would prefer to have him wander for now, as we know too little about the PoF to really decide on a good place to set up a base-camp. Especially as having said base-camp set up will be rather pricey. We definitely need a cupola with Planar Adaption so that humans can safely visit, then set up a Plane-Shift Wagon-Train to transfer goods.

But the Xorn come first in that regard. Sweet, sweet planar trade, finally without needing PC-time.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Ooh, his realm could do the "nonlethally farm the Fire Whales" plan!
That sounds like a good source of income. And it would attract fire whales (you live here and you aren't hunted), which makes the whole place cooler.

And the more I think about it, the more I love the idea of "Leap Attack Amrelath". He just needs Pounce somehow (through an item of the level 2 Sorcerer spell Lion's Charge for example - or he could learn the spell himself) and he really is murder on legs.
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I'd rather get the item rather than wasting one of his spells.

Also make sure to get him Alter Self. Like Relath he needs to have a humanoid form for diplomatic and stealth options if necessary. Also halfdragons.
 
Azel said:
And I never said "dump him there right now". That's just TNE flinging shit at me to discredit my plan, not my intention.

If he agrees, we work out the details. If we want to accelerate this, we can just drop 200,000 IM in Amun Kelisk to get him equipped without impacting our crafting time.
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Crafting time isn't really the issue. We'll have plenty of it next turn. If we buy him stuff in an extraplanar market, we'll have to commission most of it and it won't be done any sooner than if we craft it ourselves.

Also, there is no freaking way we're dropping 200,000 IM on gear for Amrelath. That's absurd. Most of the gear worn by Viserys and the Companions, combined, doesn't equal 200,000 IM worth of stuff.
 
Goldfish said:
Crafting time isn't really the issue. We'll have plenty of it next turn. If we buy him stuff in an extraplanar market, we'll have to commission most of it and it won't be done any sooner than if we craft it ourselves.

Also, there is no freaking way we're dropping 200,000 IM on gear for Amrelath. That's absurd. Most of the gear worn by Viserys and the Companions, combined, doesn't equal 200,000 IM worth of stuff.
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Calm down. I just tossed out an intentionally ludicrous number.

As for crafting time, we will need some Lya time next month to set up our planar trade-route.
 
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