@Snowfire I've been thinking about it.

Random option for pretty much any occasion? Viserys has it. In your Omake you've almost gone overboard, but kind of peddle the line "Viserys would find X difficult".

I think the whole "oh yeah now I remember, at level 18 Visersy could just cast Miracle" sort of implies that at this point even you've lost track at all the tools Viserys has.

To be honest you could have him lose his Grimoire and he would still have a tool for every occasion, he'd just have to be more conservative, and in a battle of stamina, while you have scenarios with people flinging around replicated effects that do what they expect of them, his most "mainstay" stamina related feat is being able to retain a 9th level spell slot, using his Erupt page of spell knowledge (or possessing any other 9th level Fire spell) and doing 9d6+9 damage.

With it there's no earthly reason why he shouldn't have dozens of spells of lower level to conserve the higher circle ones, one of which can replicate any 8th Level or lower effect.

Maximized Dispelling Searing Agonizing Breathweapon is just the tip of the ice burg. Find scary beast that is more of a pain in the ass but usually avoidable in the Dresden verse, something that's dangerous but not exactly brimming with laser focus intellect.

Now cast Dominate Monster on it.

The primary issue that Viserys has right now in the Dresdenverse is a total lack of firm knowledge about its metaphysics, and that's something that he doesn't really have the magic to fix. There's no real solution to that magically, actually. To put it another way, he needs to get a handle on the rules of the game before he can start abusing them maliciously. There's also the outright fact that there are forces in the Dresdenverse that could flatten him. He'd have to go pretty much balls to the wall to properly fight a Walker, and Mab would match and probably defeat him unless he knew exactly how to fight her. Again, it's a matter of knowledge more than power. Given time, he'll learn the rules and the tricks, and he's much smarter on an innate level than Dresden (with no offence meant to Harry), so he'll work that sort of thing out faster. Even so though, that leaves a huge number of powers capable of bringing him down if he steps wrongly, and that's part of the point. Although he's a big fish in the Chicago pond, he's a medium sized one in the wider DF-verse, even with all of his versatility.

I mean, to take an example from associated WoJs, we have this:


Viserys, due to his versatility and other factors, and once he has his feet under him, could probably match either of the Queens if he could do the proper setup and wasn't forced to fight them in a Place of their Power. Not that that's likely to come up. This omake series is far more about Viserys handling being cast adrift from the world he knows, trying to find his way back, and accidentallying his way through a number of relevant threats on the way. More than that, though, @zxzx24 is entirely right. The way we play him, Viserys is a calm, calculating sort of fellow and very conservative about his careful plans even if their results are big. It's when someone pushes one of his buttons that he doubles down. It's part of his character and his intrinsic nature, but it takes a lot to get him there. Threaten something his and he'll slap you down. Continually do so and he'll work out a way to hurt you enough that you can't. Hurt something he cares for and he'll crack the walls of reality to see you burn. Issue being here? There's little to actually push him over that line at this point. He's angry at Dresden, and wants explanations, but it's not the same sort of anger that will come through if/when he finds out about how the Laws of Magic are enforced.

Or how Winter ensures it has sufficient resources to deal with their full obligations.

Or...well...how things like the Mantles aren't a choice. Not even slightly. As Mother Summer puts it in Cold Days, everyone possessed of a Mantle has a chance to remain themselves. Most Knights fail. I expect the success rate is far worse for Ladies, and I don't even want to think about how low it must be for Queens - we know they were once mortal, Mab tells us that. The Mothers? I suspect it's the same, but there's really no way to tell.
 
To be honest you could have him lose his Grimoire and he would still have a tool for every occasion, he'd just have to be more conservative, and in a battle of stamina, while you have scenarios with people flinging around replicated effects that do what they expect of them, his most "mainstay" stamina related feat is being able to retain a 9th level spell slot, using his Erupt page of spell knowledge (or possessing any other 9th level Fire spell) and doing 9d6+9 damage.
In D20 modern, a rocket launcher does 10d6 damage, which averages to 35 damage, while Fiery Burst powered by 9th level spell adds up to 40.5 damage on average.

So. Yeah.
 
[X] Final Touches
-[X] Negotiate further
--[X] Propose an exchange of lore
---[X] Everything you can safely give them on Prime Material (culture, history, nobility & royalty, geography, religion, nature, etc) in exchange for an equal value of planar lore from each of them, with special focus on lore of their own respective peoples
-[X] Afterwards, proceed with the signing of the Accords.
-[X] Relath Level Up
--[X] +1 Level Sorcerer
---[X] Cantrip: Message
---[X] Level 3 Spell: Call of the Void
---[X] Skillpoints: +5 Spellcraft
-[X] Hermetia's pre-Mindbender vote
--[X] Class: +1 Beguiler
(total level 6: Expert 1/Beguiler 5)
--[X] Feat: Silent Spell (bonus feat from class), Unsettling Enchantment (to be retrained next level)
--[X] Skills (8 points): +1 Bluff, +1 Sense Motive, +1 Sleight of Hand, +1 Spellcraft, +4 Intimidate
--[X] Other:
Bab and saves are unchanged. Hermetia's Expert level is absent from her character sheet. Her new surname is cool and should be there. Her level 3 spells should be on her sheet, because as a Beguiler she knows them all and can thus cast them with Versatile spellcaster.
Current version of my plan if you guys want to vote. @Goldfish, any adjustments you'd make for Relath's levelup? @Azel @TotallyNotEvil were there any more things we wanted to hammer out before this is all over?
 
I am getting the number of skillpoints right, right? Also how do I tell what levels bring boosts to ability scores?
 
I mean, to take an example from associated WoJs, we have this:
I won't touch how "observable galaxy" makes that scale nonsensical, but that scale seems to work far better as a metaphysical weight scale, and not in the boxing sense but in a far more literal sense, than anything.

Powerful beings in Dresden seem to run on narrative physics far more than the literal "danger scale" that is CR.
Current version of my plan if you guys want to vote. @Goldfish, any adjustments you'd make for Relath's levelup? @Azel @TotallyNotEvil were there any more things we wanted to hammer out before this is all over?
Why take a talent to retrain it next level? Retraining isn't usually that quick or easy, y'know.

Innate boosts are at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th.
 
The primary issue that Viserys has right now in the Dresdenverse is a total lack of firm knowledge about its metaphysics, and that's something that he doesn't really have the magic to fix. There's no real solution to that magically, actually. To put it another way, he needs to get a handle on the rules of the game before he can start abusing them maliciously. There's also the outright fact that there are forces in the Dresdenverse that could flatten him. He'd have to go pretty much balls to the wall to properly fight a Walker, and Mab would match and probably defeat him unless he knew exactly how to fight her. Again, it's a matter of knowledge more than power. Given time, he'll learn the rules and the tricks, and he's much smarter on an innate level than Dresden (with no offence meant to Harry), so he'll work that sort of thing out faster. Even so though, that leaves a huge number of powers capable of bringing him down if he steps wrongly, and that's part of the point. Although he's a big fish in the Chicago pond, he's a medium sized one in the wider DF-verse, even with all of his versatility.

I mean, to take an example from associated WoJs, we have this:


Viserys, due to his versatility and other factors, and once he has his feet under him, could probably match either of the Queens if he could do the proper setup and wasn't forced to fight them in a Place of their Power. Not that that's likely to come up. This omake series is far more about Viserys handling being cast adrift from the world he knows, trying to find his way back, and accidentallying his way through a number of relevant threats on the way. More than that, though, @zxzx24 is entirely right. The way we play him, Viserys is a calm, calculating sort of fellow and very conservative about his careful plans even if their results are big. It's when someone pushes one of his buttons that he doubles down. It's part of his character and his intrinsic nature, but it takes a lot to get him there. Threaten something his and he'll slap you down. Continually do so and he'll work out a way to hurt you enough that you can't. Hurt something he cares for and he'll crack the walls of reality to see you burn. Issue being here? There's little to actually push him over that line at this point. He's angry at Dresden, and wants explanations, but it's not the same sort of anger that will come through if/when he finds out about how the Laws of Magic are enforced.

Or how Winter ensures it has sufficient resources to deal with their full obligations.

Or...well...how things like the Mantles aren't a choice. Not even slightly. As Mother Summer puts it in Cold Days, everyone possessed of a Mantle has a chance to remain themselves. Most Knights fail. I expect the success rate is far worse for Ladies, and I don't even want to think about how low it must be for Queens - we know they were once mortal, Mab tells us that. The Mothers? I suspect it's the same, but there's really no way to tell.
Honestly I figure what'd really bother Viserys is the total secrecy. He's a ruler after all, and the Masquerade would probably offend him on behalf of Earth's various governments, who aren't that bad at their job as far he can tell. The idea that the wizards and other aware humans would choose to cooperate in hiding things from their fellows would probably baffle him, since it's pretty clear what all the monsters preying on humanity get out of it. The Gods' part in things wouldn't be exactly appreciated either. "You have a church, make some clerics already so they can do their job and speak to the faithful in your name" might come up in conversation.
 
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I won't touch how "observable galaxy" makes that scale nonsensical, but that scale seems to work far better as a metaphysical weight scale, and not in the boxing sense but in a far more literal sense, than anything.

Powerful beings in Dresden seem to run on narrative physics far more than the literal "danger scale" that is CR.

Oh, I agree. I'm more using it as a helpful baseline on the matter to associate to where I place Viserys on the scale.
 
I didn't expect elder vamps to be that high. They seemed mostly meh in the third book (the one I actually read). Didn't that elder that showed up die as well in the burning ghost trap?

First off, Bianca wasn't really an Elder if I recall right. Secondly, she was Red Court. Not Black. There's...a difference. And yes, it matters.
 
If I remember correctly, Mavra wasn't even close to being considered an Elder. They're thousands of years old, magically active, and have been able to hone their skills and build their power throughout all that time. The Black Court has a lot of advantages and innate strengths, but they also have the most profound, crippling weaknesses, so despite the potential power wielded by the oldest of them, they are handicapped in easily exploitable ways.

I can't remember which book it was, but Harry even mentions at one point that the White Council had used Stoker's work to deliberately disseminate the inherent vulnerabilities and weakness of the Black Court in order to check their growing power.
 
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First off, Bianca wasn't really an Elder if I recall right. Secondly, she was Red Court. Not Black. There's...a difference. And yes, it matters.
Nono, a representative shows up by the end that sounds like an Elder, but I forgot she was Red, yes. To be fair, they are described as having rubber-like black skin, so I sort of think of them as demonic plastic-skinned frogmen.

Aren't the blacks the most weakened court in modern times?
 
Nono, a representative shows up by the end that sounds like an Elder, but I forgot she was Red, yes. To be fair, they are described as having rubber-like black skin, so I sort of think of them as demonic plastic-skinned frogmen.

Aren't the blacks the most weakened court in modern times?

They're the weakest court, yes, but that's due to their inherent weaknesses and how Dracula was published as a practical how-to guide on how to murder them. Which means that the surviving elders rate up there as some of the most cunning and powerful monsters in the world through sheer Darwinian necessity. Quoting almost direct from the wiki here.
 
They're the weakest court, yes, but that's due to their inherent weaknesses and how Dracula was published as a practical how-to guide on how to murder them. Which means that the surviving elders rate up there as some of the most cunning and powerful monsters in the world through sheer Darwinian necessity. Quoting almost direct from the wiki here.
You remember the "representative" that Bianca invites as to threaten Dresden with World War Vamp by the end of Grave Perils?

On that note, can we expect another Horde Thief today? :evil:
 
You remember the "representative" that Bianca invites as to threaten Dresden with World War Vamp by the end of Grave Perils?

On that note, can we expect another Horde Thief today? :evil:

I do remember, yes. But she was Bianca's teacher, I'm not sure she'd really classify as an Elder. Those are...different.

And maybe, I need to finish up the latest section of PW and it's giving me a bit of trouble. It's also 1am and I have work tomorrow, so probably not until tomorrow evening at best. More likely Wednesday.
 
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