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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Raichu1972 said:
I'm pretty sure animal sacrifice doesn't actually give them any power because animals are not sapient.

A sacrifice has to be sapient, otherwise everyone would just farm animals or dumb undead for sacrifice fodder and get massive power ups.
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Animal sacrifice do give some power, it's just not much, and I'm not sure if the old gods are amongst the ones who benefit from it, but Yss accept animal sacrifice, he don't give much for it just minor temporary blessings, but people regularly bring animals to sacrifice in his temple, and he would have stopped that if it was futile.

And I think mindless undead do give power, I think I remember DP saying so but I'm not sure.

@DragonParadox do the old gods give anything for the sacrifice of non-sentient undeads? I think I remember you saying they do but I'm not certain.
 
tarrangar said:
Animal sacrifice do give some power, it's just not much, and I'm not sure if the old gods are amongst the ones who benefit from it, but Yss accept animal sacrifice, he don't give much for it just minor temporary blessings, but people regularly bring animals to sacrifice in his temple, and he would have stopped that if it was futile.

And I think mindless undead do give power, I think I remember DP saying so but I'm not sure.

@DragonParadox do the old gods give anything for the sacrifice of non-sentient undeads? I think I remember you saying they do but I'm not certain.
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Regular animals -- Old Gods don't refuse the sacrifice, but no rewards for it
Magical animals -- you get minor rewards
Non-sentient undead -- you need to collect a lot of them, but you get minor rewards, and even then they're still best served at the Fungus Forge
Sentients of all kinds -- standard sacrifice, refer to the chart
 
tarrangar said:
I don't think that's the case, otherwise the old gods would allow for the growing of Weirwood with sufficient animal sacrifice, after all they want all the Weirwood they can get, so I would guess that the modifiers are based on how much power they get from the sacrifice, it do make sense that the more a sacrifice oppose their tenants the more power they get, after all it's all metaphysical bullshit, so the modifiers being what makes their digestion more efficient makes sense.
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Okay, I'm asking DP because it would be nice to know this.

@DragonParadox , when someone gets bonuses to the sacrifice they are providing the Gods, is it because the God itself is sucking more power out of the sacrifice (For example, a mage's HD being more powerful than commoner HD), or because they just have a hate-boner for that particular thing but they don't actually get stronger (like Cold-Subtype HD for the Old Gods), but they want the thing sacrificed to them for sentimental reasons?

Trying to understand how sacrifice HD works, and if actually sacrificing a newborn baby to the Others has any tangible benefit than letting it grow and get more HD first.
 
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@DragonParadox, I think you're free to continue with writing that chapter :/
Adhoc vote count started by egoo on Jul 4, 2018 at 3:27 PM, finished with 202955 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X] Plan Storytime
    -[X] Viserys nods in response, a rueful smile upon his face. "Indeed, the Plane of Molten Skies is no place for the unprepared or weak of heart, and not merely due to the fiery climate. It was a fell place, and one that could have claimed the lives of myself and my Companions many times over, but it also served its purpose, and as a result we have grown stronger and made valuable contacts with friendlier sorts of beings out among the Planes."
    --[X] "You have my thanks for that introduction to realms beyond the boundaries of mortal existence, perilous though the lesson proved to be. It is good to see you back among those loyal to your goddess."
    -[X] After greetings have been exchanged between our small party and the Moonsingers, explain the reason for our visit.
    --[X] We are always interested in introducing benevolent or even neutral deities to our lands. If the Moonsinger is willing, we will set aside a parcel of land in Sorcerer's Deep for a temple to be built in her name, with material support and magical aide provided by the state.
    --[X] We wish to learn what would be required to gain the services of a Watcher spirit for those cities under our purview. They can rest assured that we would not use the Watchers for nefarious purposes, merely to facilitate rapid communication and perhaps to allow those who cannot be present to enjoy various sorts of entertainment, limited of course by the Watcher's inability to share sounds.
    -[X] Although we would like to establish closer ties to the Moonsinger, we would understand if our own laws and practices would make this impossible.
    --[X] Explain the laws of our kingdom, including the use of blood sacrifice against enemies of humanity, both to gain power to strengthen ourselves and our realm, and to permanently diminish the forces of our enemies, who in some cases cannot otherwise be permanently destroyed.
    --[X] If these practices are unacceptable to the Moonsinger and the tenets of her faith, then we will politely take our leave after thinking them for meeting with us so quickly.
    ---[X] We would also be most unappreciative if they falsely claimed acceptance, only to later, after becoming establishing Sorcerer's Deep, attempt to change or interfere with such practices.
    [X] Azel
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Duesal said:
Regular animals -- Old Gods don't refuse the sacrifice, but no rewards for it
Magical animals -- you get minor rewards
Non-sentient undead -- you need to collect a lot of them, but you get minor rewards, and even then they're still best served at the Fungus Forge
Sentients of all kinds -- standard sacrifice, refer to the chart
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I would like to hear that from DP, because as I understood it, when the sacrifice is undead, even non-sentient ones only get the low intelligence negative modifier added.
 
tarrangar said:
I would like to hear that from DP, because as I understood it, when the sacrifice is undead, even non-sentient ones only get the low intelligence negative modifier added.
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That part falls under "has magic in it".
Yes, yes undead do give Old Gods power when sacrificed, even if non-sentient, as they're magic.

I'm pretty sure we can sacrifice a golem to them and only have usual 1/5 chance of it being rejected, as is usual for a magical (item).
 
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Tomcost said:
Okay, I'm asking DP because it would be nice to know this.

@DragonParadox , when someone gets bonuses to the sacrifice they are providing the Gods, is it because the God itself is sucking more power out of the sacrifice (For example, a mage's HD being more powerful than commoner HD), or because they just have a hate-boner for that particular thing but they don't actually get stronger (like Cold-Subtype HD for the Old Gods), but they want the thing sacrificed to them for sentimental reasons?

Trying to understand how sacrifice HD works, and if actually sacrificing a newborn baby to the Others has any tangible benefit than letting it grow and get more HD first.
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A combination of the two. Also best to keep in mind that strength means different things to different gods.

For instance someone brought up Craster killing babies, or more precisely his sons. A newborn's soul might not burn the brightest, but a god that is antithetical to all the hope and promise it represents can get quite a lot from its death, particularly if the act is one of treachery and spite.
 
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tarrangar said:
I would like to hear that from DP, because as I understood it, when the sacrifice is undead, even non-sentient ones only get the low intelligence negative modifier added.
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Okay. Allow me to share an old PM with DP.
DragonParadox said:
Duesal said:
Hey @DragonParadox, can you confirm a few things for me?

With the Old Gods, yes, when something is truly nonsentient it loses the majority of its value as a sacrifice, but we would still get something out of it if it was special, right?

Like, if it was undead, or a magical beast. Say, sacrificing thirty zombies, or hippogriffs or something. But mainly undead, since the Old Gods hate the undead.
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You might get something if you cleared out a major infestation yes.
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They have value as sacrifices, but only in great numbers. With the Fungus Forge, however, they're worth a hell of a lot more. We get free Leshys for all the undead we pile in there.
 
@DragonParadox, I think you can close the vote now.
Adhoc vote count started by Duesal on Jul 4, 2018 at 3:43 PM, finished with 202960 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X] Plan Storytime
    -[X] Viserys nods in response, a rueful smile upon his face. "Indeed, the Plane of Molten Skies is no place for the unprepared or weak of heart, and not merely due to the fiery climate. It was a fell place, and one that could have claimed the lives of myself and my Companions many times over, but it also served its purpose, and as a result we have grown stronger and made valuable contacts with friendlier sorts of beings out among the Planes."
    --[X] "You have my thanks for that introduction to realms beyond the boundaries of mortal existence, perilous though the lesson proved to be. It is good to see you back among those loyal to your goddess."
    -[X] After greetings have been exchanged between our small party and the Moonsingers, explain the reason for our visit.
    --[X] We are always interested in introducing benevolent or even neutral deities to our lands. If the Moonsinger is willing, we will set aside a parcel of land in Sorcerer's Deep for a temple to be built in her name, with material support and magical aide provided by the state.
    --[X] We wish to learn what would be required to gain the services of a Watcher spirit for those cities under our purview. They can rest assured that we would not use the Watchers for nefarious purposes, merely to facilitate rapid communication and perhaps to allow those who cannot be present to enjoy various sorts of entertainment, limited of course by the Watcher's inability to share sounds.
    -[X] Although we would like to establish closer ties to the Moonsinger, we would understand if our own laws and practices would make this impossible.
    --[X] Explain the laws of our kingdom, including the use of blood sacrifice against enemies of humanity, both to gain power to strengthen ourselves and our realm, and to permanently diminish the forces of our enemies, who in some cases cannot otherwise be permanently destroyed.
    --[X] If these practices are unacceptable to the Moonsinger and the tenets of her faith, then we will politely take our leave after thinking them for meeting with us so quickly.
    ---[X] We would also be most unappreciative if they falsely claimed acceptance, only to later, after becoming establishing Sorcerer's Deep, attempt to change or interfere with such practices.
    [X] Azel
Click to expand...
 
DragonParadox said:
A combination of the two. Also best to keep in mind that strength means different things to different gods.

For instance someone brought up Craster killing babies, or more precisely his sons. A newborn's soul might not burn the brightest, but a god that is antithetical to all the hope and promise it represents can get quite a lot from its death, particularly if the act is one of treachery and spite.
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Welp, time to schedule the OG for an extra three reps on every set.
 
Duesal said:
Okay. Allow me to share an old PM with DP.

They have value as sacrifices, but only in great numbers. With the Fungus Forge, however, they're worth a hell of a lot more. We get free Leshys for all the undead we pile in there.
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I think he said something later that went the other way, so I would still like to have DP say it himself, because in the end it's his decision, and considering that Wights are non-sentient I think it's an important one, seeing as whether sacrificing Wights work will be a big deal come winter.
 
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Part MMCXXXII: The Virtue of Choice
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    • The Virtue of Choice ​

    Seventeenth Day of the Third Month 293 AC

    How odd for a goddess, whose faithful had raised the temple that surrounds you in carved and gilded majesty, to send a being so small and seemingly fragile to carry her word. Still, you would be the last to mistake size for the measure of worth. You offer a rueful smile: "Indeed, the Plane of Molten Skies is no place for the unprepared or weak of heart, and not merely due to the fiery climate. It was a fel place, and one that could have claimed the lives of myself and my Companions many times over, but it also served its purpose, and as a result we have grown stronger and made valuable contacts with friendlier sorts of beings out among the Planes."

    To your surprise the mirror spirit turns abruptly serious, speaking not in Low Valyrian, but the hissing tongue of wyrms: "Worse things than blades and fire there is there, those that even the victorious might carry back: greed, cruelty, pride."

    A part of you still bridles in anger at the words, but you distrust wrath too much to ever listen to its counsel without thought. To what purpose is there to change tongues? The herald did not mention your heritage and it does not seem the prideful sort that it would revel in knowledge most mortal men do not possess. Perhaps it does not wish to influence then before all had been said... a test. The realization does not quench all your frustration, but it makes it far easier to keep in check. For now pride works at cross-purposes with it. You will not be baited.

    "What I have seen beneath the walls of the City of Brass I would not condone in a thousand thousand years," you answer, words soft, but unwavering as steel.

    "Yes," the mephit replies, fluttering up until its eyes are as high as yours. "Great evil have you seen, and so the lesser does not seem so black. Only the fiends bound as slaves. After all, is it not their nature to destroy? Only the damned bled to feed ancient hungers, for does it not bring plenty? Upon a shadowed path you have stepped, one that is not and that cannot be free from greed, hate, and pride. So tell me, dragonlord who would darken the sun with thy wings and hold the world in thy talons, what if you should live a thousand thousand years and one?"

    The question again hangs as a challenge in the air, and again you refuse to take it. "Tell me, Bearer of the Wayfarer's Lantern, why did you open a path to that realm, are you then blind to the ends of thine own deeds?" you ask, baiting a trap of your own.

    "It is not my place to judge another's path, nor to refuse..."

    "Horseshit," Lya declares, the joining of words to make the curse so utterly incongruous in the tongue you are all speaking that it is all you can do to keep in laughter. She continues in the same matter-of-fact tone, "You are responsible for the consequences of your own actions, morally and otherwise. Angels can fall and fiends can stand redeemed. The choices before you may not be those a mortal faces, but they are no less real for it."

    "Perhaps that is so," the herald relents, surprisingly. "But it is not my tale that will be sung through the ages, not my place to weave the world's fate. However lightly judgement may lay upon your shoulders, you are yet the one who stepped into these halls with an offer."

    "So it is, and as any man of business offering an opportunity I would be entirely content to withdraw my offer without rancor if it becomes clear our differences cannot be reconciled," you reply sincerely. "One thing of all that you have said however is untrue: that I would reject your aid lightly. If such can be called light it is because all the good that has been done by spilling the blood of monsters is heavy as a mountain. Yet I would not, could not turn my back upon this temple without sadness over all you could have done to light the way and better the lives of my subjects. "

    "All paths are as rivers leading to sea," Lya says softly, with the air of someone recounting a quote of some sort. "Remember ye, that sea is boundless and beyond knowing."

    "So you do remember," the little spirit muses, rubbing its chin.

    "I've always had an excellent memory," Lya replies a touch wistfully. "Perhaps in another life it might have been more than that, but in this one here I stand, though blood may lap at my heels. I can do no other."

    "I do not seek to dictate anyone's conscience," you begin softly, though passion is threaded into every word. "I ask only that you respect the laws of my realm and the powers that have helped me build it. I ask that you not let fear of some nebulous future lessen us all, darkening the paths that thousands might walk Perhaps in time you shall see that light can be found in uncommon places, kindled by those ways you count dark."

    "I cannot vow that I shall never change for that is not my nature. Perilous is thine wisdom dragon lord, bur no less true for it," the herald admits sounding troubled. Then as swiftly as it had vanished the wide grin flashes again upon its features and it turns to the priests: "Did I ever tell you how I met them? There's pirates, fish-men, sorcery, adventure... you know, I never heard the whole story myself..." It turns to you with a broad wink: "Mayhap you have the time to tell the tale of how you made an end of the madman who enslaved me."

    With a cautious nod of thanks of the obvious opportunity to hear of blood magic in the best light possible you begin your tale. By the end midnight had come and gone and you are quit thankful for the chance to wish away the wine's effects upon you. Another temple would grace the Deep soon enough. You do not even regret the coin needed to build it... not more than a twinge in any case.

    What do you do next?

    [] Write in

    OOC: There were a lot of good rolls this update leading to excellent synergy.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • @DragonParadox, so we get the Moonsingers to set up a grand temple in Sorcerer's Deep and they agree to follow all the laws, not to challenge our authority, and not to challenge our blood sacrifice?

    Also, @DragonParadox, can you give us information on the Silver Eye now? What mages they have, what classes and levels, how they're organized, etc. Basically the same info we got on the Dornish mages.
     
    Duesal said:
    @DragonParadox, so we get the Moonsingers to set up a grand temple in Sorcerer's Deep and they agree to follow all the laws, not to challenge our authority, and not to challenge our blood sacrifice?

    Also, @DragonParadox, can you give us information on the Silver Eye now? What mages they have, what classes and levels, how they're organized, etc. Basically the same info we got on the Dornish mages.
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    1. Yes
    2. Do you want it OOC now or IC in the next update?
     
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