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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
How about starting with the parts of magic that don't involve human remains first?

You are not selling anything by confirming the soup-stock rumors.
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We are working successfully on the non-remainy parts of magic for our own people already.
Our soldiers trust us and our magic we've shown so far already.
Now the Legionaires can see that some well-controlled undead fighting by their side are no big deal.
That is the next step.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Propably, but seeing the Bonestorms kill daemons and save people is one step closer to a greater goal than Viserys being liked, that is all magic being accepted.
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You're being awfuly optimistic about what they'll be doing.
They can scatter the moment he loses control and attack people around, rather than Amy.
And that's not even a given Amy will find any daemon targets for them.

If we can't contain these things for sacrifice (and I'm so, so damn salty about this), then they're useless for us, well and truly.

Just this once, I'd rather not take any risks.
 
Mmm, I've felt from the beginning we should have the boneswarms destroyed. Every effort should be made to prevent our enemies from being able to paint this as an evil vs evil type dealio, or that the fall of the city totally makes more sense if the evil demonic figures were helping that dread sorcerer guy.

[X] Azel
 
egoo said:
They can scatter the moment he loses control and attack people around, rather than Amy.
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He has them for 19 minutes (DP has given his HD as CL, not a flat 15).
That is 190 rounds.

He could let them fight for 180 and then use two or three Breathweapons to kill them all in the remaining time with almost no effort or time wasted.
 
Well, not that I don't think the plan I voted for isn't the right one, but most of the discussion for the next few months over in King's Landing and the solars of various High Lords is going to obsessively center around the fact that we must seem unstoppable and yet must be stopped.

Only distance and circumstance will stave off increasing desperation of our enemies.
 
das_slash said:
To be clear, i dont want the fiery hand running around freely, i want a few of them with each Squad, reassuring the populace, guiding them through shortcuts and indicating priority targets.
Maybe staying behind to guard slaves.
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They're sneaky little shits trying to steal credit. They want the glory of slaughtering the daemons and I'd bet anything they'd be preaching it in their sermons.
 
Duesal said:
They're sneaky little shits trying to steal credit. They want the glory of slaughtering the daemons and I'd bet anything they'd be preaching it in their sermons.
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of course, but we gain more than we stand to lose by giving them that much.
No need to shoot ourselves in the foot out of spite, and that is what this is, spite.
We'd rather have a harder time holding this city than giving them the time of day.
 
das_slash said:
of course, but we gain more than we stand to lose by giving them that much.
No need to shoot ourselves in the foot out of spite, and that is what this is, spite.
We'd rather have a harder time holding this city than giving them the time of day.
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They're already trying to twist the narrative. "We'll help so long as you free the slaves"? They've got to be kidding. They're trying to set themselves up as the reason for the liberation of the slaves.

Fuck no. Damn right this is out of spite. They can go sit in their temple and stay out of our way, we are not giving them a lick of credit for any of this.
 
das_slash said:
of course, but we gain more than we stand to lose by giving them that much.
No need to shoot ourselves in the foot out of spite, and that is what this is, spite.
We'd rather have a harder time holding this city than giving them the time of day.
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Buy we can take it without them and then be in a better position in our dealings with them, no need to have to deal with whatever hooks they want to try to get in.

And small fry or not, Rh'llor, by it's nature of being a god (or Asmodeus), is not gonna not be a slaving dickhead. I want to owe him and his nothing.
 
Duesal said:
They're already trying to twist the narrative. "We'll help so long as you free the slaves"? They've got to be kidding. They're trying to set themselves up as the reason for the liberation of the slaves.

Fuck no. Damn right this is out of spite. They can go sit in their temple and stay out of our way, we are not giving them a lick of credit for any of this.
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But we are natural allies, we choose to remember the early encounter rather than their current attittude towards us. They have the potential to ease the conquest of Essos to a degree nothing else can, yet we choose to ignore all their friendly overtures, its just bad business.
 
BeepSmile said:
Buy we can take it without them and then be in a better position in our dealings with them, no need to have to deal with whatever hooks they want to try to get in.

And small fry or not, Rh'llor, by it's nature of being a god (or Asmodeus), is not gonna not be a slaving dickhead. I want to owe him and his nothing.
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We would owe him nothing for this, this is just them securing their position in the city.
As for the city, we end up in a stronger position compared to them, but end up in a weaker position overall, they can help save more slaves and turn the public opinion in our favor, for Next to nothing.
 
i might as well weigh in here. In Viserys' opinion Amrelath will not be too upset over loosing the soon to be uncontrollable undead. If it were something he could cage for later use he would probably be more so, but with the bonestorms he's asking in case you feel like being generous for the oportunity cost of what they might kill.
 
It's not a friendly overture, it is a "we'll greenlight your conquest but then take a share of undeserved credit for your liberation of hundreds of thousands".

They are trying to be partners. They should be so lucky to be supplicants.
Adhoc vote count started by Crake on May 5, 2018 at 3:36 AM, finished with 186524 posts and 18 votes.
  • [X] Plan Focus
    -[X] Let Amrealth keep them.
    -[X] Go speak with the Red Priests.
    --[X] Thank them for offering to help, but decline. We've always fought against slavery, they can rest assured we are bringing freedom for all. Unfortunately, the sudden influx of troops might cause chaos, so we'd rather they stay out.
    [X] Plan Not Repeating Past Mistakes
    -[X] You have learned your lesson from indulging Relath for things like this. Tell Amrelath to destroy the Bonestorms.
    -[X] Speak to the Red Priests
    --[X] Thank them for offering to help, but decline. We've always fought against slavery, they can rest assured we are bringing freedom for all. Unfortunately, the sudden influx of troops might cause chaos, so we'd rather they stay out.
    -[X] Assist Group 2
    [X] Plan Thanks, but no thanks.
    -[X] Tell Amrelath to destroy the Bonestorms once they escape his control.
    -[X] Speak to the Red Priests
    --[X] Thank the priests for offering to help, but order them to keep their forces contained in their temple. We have kept the city from descending into an orgy of chaos and death through meticulous planning and well established lines of communication. The Fiery Hand would not be briefed on our plans, nor have access to our methods of communication, and we do not wish for them to be set upon by any of our forces who might mistake them for enemies. They can rest assured that the institution of slavery will be abolished in Tyrosh within hours.
    -[X] Go help one of the other groups after speaking to the Red Priests.
    --[X] Group 2 (Garin, Wyla, Maelor, Vee, Spyglass Archon)
    [X] Thank them for offering to help, but decline. We've always fought against slavery, they can rest assured we are bringing freedom for all. Unfortunately, the sudden influx of troops might cause chaos, so we'd rather they stay out.
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Crake said:
It's not a friendly overture, it is a "we'll greenlight your conquest but then take a share of undeserved credit for your liberation of hundreds of thousands".

They are trying to be partners. They should be so lucky to be supplicants.
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Minor partners, with all the responsability that implies.
Seriously, with the reds on our side, taking the rest of the free cities will be a walk in thin the park.
Even volantis would fall with relative ease, It would give us a huge information Network, organized resistance, assassinated masters, clerics and resources.
It bothers me so much we are overlooking such a goldmine of PR and resources out of spite.
Yes we would have to make concesions, but thats how business works, you lose something in the knowledge that you get more that way.
 
das_slash said:
But we are natural allies, we choose to remember the early encounter rather than their current attittude towards us. They have the potential to ease the conquest of Essos to a degree nothing else can, yet we choose to ignore all their friendly overtures, its just bad business.
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I hold a massivly opposing stance to you on this. Rh'llor is an enemy and its church and followers its slaves, blind to its lies.
His church are nothing but courteous. I view them as nothing more than a massive massive group of people that fall onto the "save if possible" list.

Rh'llor is a god, and can not act in ways unlike himself, so the kind of stuff in Lys the first time is the kind of stuff we should expect now. Maybe it will try to be friendly in its approach, but it will be for some sort of self empowering end, which would be reasonable excepy that I want to kill him. Seriously, the thing has slavery as one of its domains.[/I]
 
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Seriously, we want the same things.
Liberate the slaves.
Save the world from the others.
Lots of fire.

We will have to deal with Rhllor sooner or later, and much like the secret of our plane, the more we postpone It the less we gain from It.
 
BeepSmile said:
I hold a massivly opposing stance to you on this. Rh'llor is an enemy and its church and followers its slaves, blind to its lies.
His church are nothing but courteous. I view them as nothing more than a massive massive group of people that fall onto the "save if possible" list.

Rh'llor is a god, and can not act in ways unlike himself, so the kind of stuff in Lys the first time is the kind of stuff we should expect now. Maybe it will try to be friendly in its approach, but it will be for some sort of self empowering end, which would be reasonable excepy that I want to kill him. Seriously, the thing has slavery as one of its domains.[/I]
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He is more free than most gods, the alignment of his followers proves as much.
And slavery as a domain is not a bad thing, real world slaver gods could be surprisingly nice, they look after their wards when no one else does. The alternative is Pentos, indifference towards those that have no use.
Rhllor is goddamn caring towards his slaves, because they are his.

And we need to fill our Evil god quota for our pantheon.
 
Yeah. No. The Red God does not get to take credit for our hard work, does not get to claim a close relation with us that they have neither earned nor negotiated for, and they do not get to keep their slaves (though people choosing to stay is fine, but it will need to be made clear).

DragonParadox said:
i might as well weigh in here. In Viserys' opinion Amrelath will not be too upset over loosing the soon to be uncontrollable undead. If it were something he could cage for later use he would probably be more so, but with the bonestorms he's asking in case you feel like being generous for the oportunity cost of what they might kill.
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With this revelation, can we not mar our triumph with unnecessary PR problems? We spent a spellslot trying to keep a lid on the whole undead connection on our side, but we can't be bothered to say a sentence to Amrelath towards the same goal?

I'm about to go to bed, and I'm worried people wont see this due to the whole sleeping thing, so I'll actually ping people, even though I normally don't like doing this sort of thing.

@TotallyNotEvil @Mormont @ryuan @Bladesguy @A_Somebody @fan550 @Artemis1992
 
das_slash said:
He is more free than most gods, the alignment of his followers proves as much.
And slavery as a domain is not a bad thing, real world slaver gods could be surprisingly nice, they look after their wards when no one else does. The alternative is Pentos, indifference towards those that have no use.
Rhllor is goddamn caring towards his slaves, because they are his.

And we need to fill our Evil god quota for our pantheon.
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Intersting perspective.

Basically, I'm for not giving the church of Rh'llor anything, or Rh'llor itself.

We want the Red slaves on our side? We can do that via "breaker of chains" PR, which is going to get a nice boost from this conquest, and not tear down that monster's temples. That's how I see it. I don't want slave uprisings unless we're there to take control in the aftermath, I don't want to have to go to the mental effort of looking for traps and having to 'make reasonable consessions' IC so as to appear reasonable to the NPCs watching.

So you know what, I'm done presenting my reasons why I'm against this to you. I'm just gonna drop this for now, and if it comes up where they try to get stuff from us later, try to persuade other voters to go in a direction I would not be too not-ok with.
 
Ffffuck no, we're not dealing with R'hlor.
And not in any friendly fashion.

Vote Azel, people!
Best of the both worlds!
No PR problems from undead minions, nor dealing with followers of an asshole who'd love nothing more than take city for themselves!
 
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