- Location
- United States
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- Somewhere in Ontario
I wonder if we can intercept a shipment of maester ravens and replace them with our own. Ravens tend to only fly to one place, and that's where they were reared, which implies that raven shipments have to be moving across the Seven Kingdoms constantly. Subverting even a fraction of that would be quite the intelligence coup.
We really need to make dozens of these things.
Diomedea
A piece of the continent
- Location
- The interblag
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Our ravens are fairly obviously not actually ravens up close. They can fool people from a distance, but to a maester who expects to pick up and handle the ravens he is in charge of it'd be immediately obvious.
Update in beta.
Part MDCCCXCV: Upon Changing Tides Arising
Upon Changing Tides Arising
Eleventh Day of the Second Month 293 AC
The thought of Dornishmen loose in the Opaline Vault does not fill you with joy, and it is far more than the instincts of a Braavosi-trained trader seeing a monopoly on the verge of breaking. Still, the matter must be approached with some delicacy. "I do not know how much of this lore Velen has shared with you directly, so pray forgive me if I repeat anything you know," you begin carefully.
As as the prince nods with the lively interest of a man more than wiling to indulge long-windedness for the sake any new scrap of lore, you continue: "Most of the realms beyond this one are dangerous in ways less like the Red Wastes or even Dreaded Asshai and more akin the depths of the ocean. Each of these other worlds is quite deadly in its own way, and rarely are there locations hospitable to ordinary life. Simply surviving on most for more than a few days requires powerful magic, while others could kill one within moments of stepping foot into them. Besides all that, it is not a small act of sorcery to bridge the gulf between worlds."
"Tyene can do so," he notes, tone carefully neutral.
"So she can," you agree. "And indeed she has done so more than once, but it would be exceedingly dangerous for her to walk those paths alone or only the the company of common armsmen. In truth, the former might be less dangerous than the latter, for those insufficiently hardy of spirit might easily be turned against her even as she struggles to keep them safe." You offer a smile that is, at least for the most part, genuine. "I realize this is not what you might wish to hear, Highness. Caution may be good counsel, but it is rarely welcome."
The prince of Dorne inclines his head, as a swordsmen acknowledging a touch. "So how skilled must the sorcerers be to assure a reasonable chance to safely return?" he asks. "Mistake me not, for such treasures as you have brought forth I would be willing to wager against some chance of failure as one might do sending a trade ship to distant lands."
Not words you had expected to hear from the lips of a Westerosi lord of any stripe those, you think surprised. Had Tyene been perhaps softening his prejudices in the matter of trade? As you consider what you know of the prince's personal history, the more likely answer comes to you. His wife had been a lady born of distant Norvos. Perhaps there might be a chance at news there, for there is ever cause to listening for tales on the changing winds.
For now, however, you must address the present matter. "As good a measure as any for when a sorcerer might be prepared to step beyond the borders of the world is when they might have the power to open the way. When they command magic of the fifth circle, let us say. However, there is something to be said for cold steel as well, and though there the measure is harder to find I would say the skill of your brother would be enough to hold his own in such a place."
"So he can cuckold and start feuds with beings of entirely new worlds, eh?" the prince jests lightly as he refills your goblet with, by his own admission, 'the second best Dornish Wine'.
"That is a concern, yes," you reply in far more serious a tone. "Alas that not all that dwell in these lands of sorcery are as well disposed to mortal-kind as Velen and his kin. Some are wicked beyond knowing, others merely greedy. Knowing our lands as weak, with the first blush of magic just returning to them, they might think them ripe for plunder or even conquest."
"Then might I presume upon your kindness to see certain trades done, Your Grace?" Doran asks, slightly uncomfortable in his seat though he does a fair job of hiding it. One is not supposed to ask one's king to personally facilitate trade deals, after all. What he might have been comfortable in asking of one come before him with promises and claims, he would not lightly ask of a liege-lord to whom he swore oaths, however informally.
You are very privately relived to hear that note in his voice, even as you wave off the concern. "Of course, Highness. I will leave messengers with you to make passing on such requests easier among other missives you may wish to send."
"Good, then I am glad to see that settled," the prince declares before motioning to the parchments before him. "Now if I may have your thoughts on the preliminary agreements your lady mother spoke of yesterday. Mostly in the matter of law for these new times, most of which I found good, though some of it raised questions.
"Say on, Highness. I am ever open to the counsel of loyal vassals," though I am under no obligation to take it, you add in the silence of your own thoughts.
"Of course, the notion of electing representatives is not wholly alien here in Dorne, though the degree to which elected 'Voices' permeate the halls of power would be... concerning to some. Still, that is manageable I think. Having the Clergy be its own recognized 'estate,' however, would be cumbersome in the extreme. Any ragged beggar who knows the name of a god can claim to be part of one religion or another... and more to the point many already do. I speak of course of the Begging Brothers who live off alms, though they are not as common in Dorne as they are in many places simply because our land is not kind to those who live purely upon the charity of others."
"I confess I have not had the chance to deal with many of these supposed holy men," you admit, though forbearing to add that you beheaded the one you had encountered at Crackclaw Point. "Anything else?"
"The status of mages in regards to marrying into the gentry or the nobility," he replies. "Of course, such a condition will become rife with exceptions and technicalities as old families seek advantages, but a baseline must be set. Are they gentry or those of noble blood for the purposes of birthing or siring offspring?" He pauses for a moment, obviously considering his next words very carefully. "For myself I would say that any who could challenge an army upon the field of battle should probably be counted among the latter simply to prevent thoughts of taking by force that which the law forbids."
What do you answer?
[] Write in
OOC: Discussions on teleportation circles next update to keep the rhythm of the conversation going in a more natural way instead of Viserys monopolizing things.
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tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
To counter a bit of old salt, I would like to remind you, that far before the Cat became the irritant it became in time, it saved Garin from being tricked into selling his soul.
Diomedea
A piece of the continent
- Location
- The interblag
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Religons need to be whitelisted already by our laws, so that helps in limiting and regulating individual churches. So someone claiming to be part of the church of Bob might then get to be in the clerical estate by crook...but then they're illegally preaching/practicing/inciting worship and get punished for that.
My order of precedence I was talking about before is likely useful here, as well.
My order of precedence I was talking about before is likely useful here, as well.
- Location
- Germany
We have to whitelist churches and then they have to vouch for priests before those count as part of the religion.
Not that difficult?
- Location
- United States
Not quite sure how this one works. With sorcerers it's obvious that power is in the blood and should basically be treated as nobility depending on how powerful the mage in question is, but is affinity in magic passed down to the children of wizards and archivists? @Artemis1992?
- Location
- Germany
Not sure. In D&D everyone with enough INT and an opportunity to learn can become a Wizard, so heritage would only matter in the upbringing, but in DPs setting it seems to take some extra talent or spark, ask him.
Diomedea
A piece of the continent
- Location
- The interblag
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Here are some thoughts I have on titles. Almost all titles originate back with "warrior" or "leader," so in light of that...Leader in High Valyrian is Jentys. Basing off of King (Dārys) and Queen (Dāria) I got Jentys and Jentia, which let me create a ducal title which helps with some of the more powerful vassals like Runestone, or the Hightowers, etc. If people don't like it, we can just swap in Duke, despite how it doesn't quite fit in setting wise.
Regarding our other magical titles: Mage (Lvl 1-4), Archmage (10-14) and Sage (15+), and their precedence, I was thinking of putting unlanded mages below knights. They're better than most of the "knights" now, but going forward we plan on restricting knights to orders and limiting the right to grant knighthoods, so a knight will be worth some more status wise. An Archmage should fall between a Lord and a Jentys (since a Jentys is probably the soonest someone has enough power/wealth to hire an Archmage), and set a Sage "equal" to a King/Prince. Initially, equal but just below, and then after it becomes clear how much power a magic user of that level is, "equal" but first among them usually. For styling, I like Your Serenity for Sage, and Your Eminence for Archmage.
Current Title New Title Styling Note Knight Knight/Wisdom Ser/Wisdom Non Hereditary Landed Knight/Magistrate Baron Your Honor Lord/Most Important Magistrates Lord Your Lordship Lord/Archon Jentys/Jentia Your Excellency Lords who other lords have sworn to Lord Paramount King or Prince Your Highness King (Dragon) Emperor Your Most Gracious Majesty (Your Grace) - Archon ???? Non Hereditary Appointed Position
I'm not sure how to style appointed Archons, but I should probably post this and attend to the update.
So, original post.
Expanded table in order of precedence.
| New Title | Styling | Note |
| Mage | - | Below Gentry |
| Knight/Wisdom | Ser/Wisdom | Non Hereditary |
| Baron | Your Honor | |
| Lord | Your Lordship | |
| Archmage | Your Eminence | Non Hereditary |
| Jentys/Jentia | Your Excellency | Lords who other lords have sworn to |
| King/Prince/Sage | Your Highness/Your Serentiy | (Sage is Non Hereditary) |
| (Dragon) Emperor | Your Most Gracious Majesty (Your Grace) | |
| Archon | ???? | Non Hereditary Appointed Position |
Make a custom based on an oath when they invoke priestly privileges? It would both invite divine retribution, and open them up to being charged on oathbreaking, which are fairly severe.
Pretty much yeah and remember communication is generally slow and expensive so needing to check every barefoot beggar would get to be a real administrative burden for a small lord.
- Location
- France
I'm still waiting for the day when Maelor is sent to one of non-fortress planes of the Abyss and gets to play literal Doom until he hits a high enough level to Plane Shift out.
He's got great skills and stealth, endless attacks, and good mobility. As long as he avoids major enemies and finds a way to sleep, he's golden!
I mean - it'd be hideously unlikely that he would ever survive. It'd just be the coolest thing ever.
Actually, Richard could probably make it. He'd sword his way into a level of Crusader (for self-healing) and then survive through memetic badassness either until he found a way to walk out or until his liegelord came to save him. That's us. Because we'd totally do that, right? At the very least for the sacrifices!
He's got great skills and stealth, endless attacks, and good mobility. As long as he avoids major enemies and finds a way to sleep, he's golden!
I mean - it'd be hideously unlikely that he would ever survive. It'd just be the coolest thing ever.
Actually, Richard could probably make it. He'd sword his way into a level of Crusader (for self-healing) and then survive through memetic badassness either until he found a way to walk out or until his liegelord came to save him. That's us. Because we'd totally do that, right? At the very least for the sacrifices!
- Location
- United States
Thank you!
@DragonParadox, how does the inheritance of magical ability work in this setting? Sorcerers obviously pass down that talent to their children, but do wizards and archivists or other casters pass down their magical ability or no? And does a more powerful mage have a better chance of having magically-inclined children than a less powerful mage?
Viserys honestly does not know, however it would be a fair assumption that not all magic is inheritable.
Paradosi
Myrddin
- Location
- VV Cephei
That aside, I'm not too sure on how inheritable magic is in D&D or here, besides the obvious(Clerics from this or that deity, Sorcerers from this or that ancestor).
Diomedea
A piece of the continent
- Location
- The interblag
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Doran has the right of it that it's not just about inheritability, but also getting powerful people to buy into the social order. It also fits into their understanding of "good breeding" among the nobility anyway, that someone who achieves much might pass some of their virtues onto their children or grandchildren, be that looks, brawns, or brains.
- Location
- Germany
The main question is when you are counted as a priest. A Begging Brother isn't, since he doesn't have a church / temple. He is a practising member of the faith, but not more. Mere preaching isn't enough, since indeed everyone can do that.
So the obvious restriction is "is working at a temple recognised as such by the local authorities".
Which incidentally opens the door for some decent ways to prosecute troublesome priests. Brand them as false preachers, close the temple and then you can prosecute them.
In regards to mages standing, they are equal to nobles. End of story. Everything else would be retarded.
So the obvious restriction is "is working at a temple recognised as such by the local authorities".
Which incidentally opens the door for some decent ways to prosecute troublesome priests. Brand them as false preachers, close the temple and then you can prosecute them.
In regards to mages standing, they are equal to nobles. End of story. Everything else would be retarded.
- Location
- United States
That makes this quite a bit trickier.
On one hand, as this becomes common knowledge, sorcerers will become increasingly appealing marriage prospects for the established nobility since the power gets passed down to the children. On the other hand, simply being a wizard or archivist is a mark of extreme intelligence and makes them an appealing marriage prospect, super-powered kids be damned. Of course there's the expected "But you're not noble" which we'll be hearing a lot, but meh.
This is basically a choice of "Do I want magically-inclined children, except magically inclined in a very specific direction?" or "Do I want a very competent magical spouse?" Both are equally valid, depends on what the person looking for said spouse wants.
Not trying to disparage sorcerers here, but Archivists and Wizards definitely work quite a bit more for their magic.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I'll keep this in mind for my endless rotation of Maelor omakes.
The boy lives the hard knock live, tsk tsk.
- Location
- United States
Truly, words to live by.