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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Sneaking out for a hunt... @DragonParadox, would it not be more sneaky to just let them go out in normal hunting clothes and then pop them back to change to armour and then bring them back? Would be a good (reassuring considering Yrilla's circumstances) display of Viserys' power.

It would be nice to have the party come over for a visit also.
 
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BeepSmile said:
Sneaking out for a hunt... @DragonParadox, would it not be more sneaky to just let them go out in normal hunting clothes and then pop them back to change to armour and then bring them back? Would be a good (reassuring considering Yrilla's circumstances) display of Viserys' power.

It would be nice to have the party come over for a visit also.
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Then you have to deal with the issue of missing armor and that is the sort of thing that gets missed quickly because it is so valuable.
 
Do we have a cool picture for Waymar yet.

What could we write for waymar? A dear companion. Friend. Occasional annoyance. Sworn sword, and now Knight. we did something a while ago....
 
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Looks to be around

Pledges True.

heres the link

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover | Page 2933

Edit: From dash-slash actually
das_slash said:
The Spellguard
​
The Spellguard is an order of knights created from those mages who use their talents in service to the king, serving as his sword and shield, rising to defend the realm in times of war and maintaining order in times of peace.

To join the Spellguard, a prospective recruit must:

  • Show the ability to wield magic in an offensive, defensive or support capacity.
  • Be sponsored by an existing member, or promoted directly by a noble after an outstanding service to the realm.
  • Swear himself to the order and the king, to uphold the vows of the order and act in a manner that reflects well on his fellow knights*.
The Spellguard's loyalty lies first and foremost with the king, second with the aims and values of the order, as proclaimed by this charter and the word of the master of the order, thirdly with his fellow knights and finally to the realm.

All members of the order must adhere to the following rules and regulations, else risk incurring penalties**.

  • To uphold the laws of the realm.
  • To follow the will of the king and masters of the order.
  • To keep himself and any tools he requires in proper order, so that he is always prepared to do what is required of him.
  • To wear and honor the colors and symbols of the order when acting in any official capacity.
  • Present himself every year to an inspection by a representative of the king, to prove the truth of his vows, nominate himself to rise within the ranks of the order, or should he require it, step down from service should he no longer be able to maintain the standards of the order.
All members of the Spellguard are entitled to the following:
  • The honorific "Ser"
  • Wear the colors and symbols of the order on his banners, shield or armor.
  • Pass judgment over any crimes he witnesses as would a judge of the realm.
  • Members of the order can be landed, and are owed all the taxes and honors of the station.
  • All members receive the arms and armor of the order, as well as a monthly stipend based on their rank.
  • All members may request room and board from any lord of the realm while on the road, and can stay on the order hall when not.
  • All members have full access to the resources of the Royal Academy to improve themselves, and their requests receive preferential treatment from the Mages guild.
While the position in the Spellguard is not hereditary, the strong ties between magic and bloodline mean that parents can nominate their children to the order, and preparing them for such a position is encouraged.

The Ranks of the order are as follow:

I. Master of the Order
II. Regional Masters – Lords and Landed Knights that belong to the order
III. Senior Knights
IV. Sworn Knights
V. Squires

When not on a direct mission from a superior, a knight must obey the orders of the Master of the Region they find themselves in.

The colors of the order are Red and Bronze, the coat of arms of the order is a red drake on a bronze field.

The Order is founded by the will of his majesty, King Viserys the third, on the Twenty-Eight Day of the Fourth Month, 292 AC, with Waymar Royce as the first Master of the Order.

*The new knight is to be sworn under a place of law, with spells ensuring the truth of the words spoken. A temple of Yss, a Heart Tree or a sufficiently consecrated spell circle can be used. The knight is to swear to the following:

"I, -Insert name-, Swear by my name and power to honor my king, by my magic i will guard the realm against those that would destroy it, by my blood i would name those in front of me my brothers, to stand with me until my final day, by my honor I would protect the innocent and judge the guilty, with my strength I will pursue my foes and chase my goal, by my wisdom I will heed the orders of those above me, by this oath I am now and until I am released from it a Knight of the Spellguard, and my life is the realm's."

**Should any member of the order break the tenets as presented, he risks the following penalties, at the discretion of his superiors:

§ Temporary or permanent loss of rank.

§ Permanent loss of rank and privileges, as well as be judged as a civilian would for any crime committed.

§ Confiscation of his stipend to pay for any damages he may have caused.

§ Confiscation of any and all possessions if the damages committed exceed what could be paid in a year.

§ Temporary or permanent expulsion from the order for conduct unbecoming of a knight or breaking of vows.
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Azel said:
@Artemis1992, you are making a bit of a mockery of any oath with that addendum.

"I vow to do things, unless I think I have a really good reason to not do it."

That's not how this works.
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That's exactly how it's supposed to work and what we already asked of Richard much earlier.

Follow orders as far as you think you should, but not to the point of enabling someone like Aerys.
That's not a mockery, that's formalising something that's already common sense.
 
Artemis1992 said:
That's exactly how it's supposed to work and what we already asked of Richard much earlier.

Follow orders as far as you think you should, but not to the point of enabling someone like Aerys.
That's not a mockery, that's formalising something that's already common sense.
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That's not something you pack into an oath of service. Never. At all.

You are making the oath worthless by immediately hollowing it out.
 
Azel said:
That's not something you pack into an oath of service. Never. At all.

You are making the oath worthless by immediately hollowing it out.
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Then were should it go?

It has to be somewhere, or people with more loyalt than sense will follow really problematic orders.

I'm seeing this from the perspective of oaths being utterly inviolate and such oath need to have loopholes to keep the bearer fully functioning and with free will.
 
Artemis1992 said:
That's exactly how it's supposed to work and what we already asked of Richard much earlier.

Follow orders as far as you think you should, but not to the point of enabling someone like Aerys.
That's not a mockery, that's formalising something that's already common sense.
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That is how it is supposed to work in practice. Richard is a pragmatic person, but even he would argue against building that pragmatism into an oath. Simply put sometimes the demands of service and honor transcend oaths, however by the very nature of that fact you can't include that in the oath itself since it would be hollowed of meaning.
 
DragonParadox said:
That is how it is supposed to work in practice. Richard is a pragmatic person, but even he would argue against building that pragmatism into an oath. Simply put sometimes the demands of service and honor transcend oaths, however by the very nature of that fact you can't include that in the oath itself since it would be hollowed of meaning.
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Then oaths are either meaningless or self-destructive.
Why not design an oath that can be bend, rather than one that must be broken or break the man that swore it if a sufficiently problematic dilemma comes up?

I'm really reminded of stuff like Feanor's Oath, where in the end each bearer was damned in keeping as well as breaking it.

Edit: I mean, this is sworn before gods as well as men, so at the least the oathbreaker would make very powerful divine enemies with no regard for migating circumstances.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
Then oaths are either meaningless or self-destructive.
Why not design an oath that can be bend, rather than one that must be broken or break the man that swore it if a sufficiently problematic dilemma comes up?

I'm really reminded of stuff like Feanor's Oath, where in the end each bearer was damned in keeping as well as breaking it.
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Keep in mind that the people involved here are not machines, nor are they fey. Having a sufficiently problematic dilemma is when one's judgement, moral and rational must struggle with the strictures of the oath. However if that is already part of the oath then everything is a sufficiently problematic dilemma and the oath is effectively worthless.
 
DragonParadox said:
Keep in mind that the people involved here are not machines, nor are they fey. Having a sufficiently problematic dilemma is hen one's judgement, moral and rational must struggle with the strictures of the oath. However if that is already part of the oath then everything is a sufficiently problematic dilemma and the oath is effectively worthless.
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But it's not soley one's personal dilemma.

See the edit above, traditional knight's vows are sworn before gods and man.
And the gods currently on our side have little regard for circumstances, I believe.

So breaking the oath would at least give you the OGs as enemies, propably even with extra-power over you for having sworn under their eyes.

Edit: Or if someone does get started on the idea of magically binding oaths that was thrown around quite a few times in this thread.
 
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Oaths are more than just the words that are said, or how they're said. Where it comes to Knighthood, as Waymar is all but certain to see it, it's about pledging to uphold certain ideals. Knights are, in the heroic idea, the arm of chivalry in a dark and broken world. They are the bulwark of civilisation, present where armies and lords simply can't be, and to degrade their oath for Waymar in front of his family would be incredibly insulting. More to the point, I doubt he would accept it. He wants to be a knight, he's earned it, and the traditional oath should be well within his abilities to uphold given his steady development through PC levels.

Don't you dare take this away from him. Vote inc. give me a bit.
 
Ok, maybe I just hate the idea of people breaking oaths.
Everytime that happens a CN Wild Hunter and a LN Inevitable should join as buddy-cops for a merry chase after the oathbreaker.;)

Snowfire said:
and the traditional oath should be well within his abilities to uphold given his steady development through PC levels.
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At least leave out the women and children.
Those can be just as good or bad, harmless or dangerous as adult men in our brave new world.
 
Artemis1992 said:
But it's not soley one's personal dilemma.

See the edit above, traditional knight's vows are sworn before gods and man.
And the gods currently on our side have little regard for circumstances, I believe.

So breaking the oath would at least give you the OGs as enemies, propably even with extra-power over you for having sworn under their eyes.

Edit: Or if someone does get started on the idea of magically binding oaths that was thrown around quite a few times in this thread.
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It would certainly make the Old Gods ill disposed to one, but it's not like Gods can personally smite people for such things, otherwise R'hllor would have already done something rather drastic about say Volantis. Thus if a knight is too afraid of divine displeasure to break an oath when he knows that it is morally or rationally the right choice is showing cowardice. Not exactly knight material that.

As for magically binding oaths... those tend to create resentment so taking the trouble of so enchanting someone then building in an escape clause would seem like the sort of decision the Evil Overlord List was designed to prevent.
 
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[X] Under the bows of a gods wood if available. If not then a suitably dramatic clearing or glade. Perhaps using the lay of the land staff.
-[X] Waymar will kneel. Then he will recite the oath we have prepared beforehand. The first of many.
-[X] "Waymar of house Royce, do you swear before the eyes of gods and men to defend those who cannot defend themselves? To protect all without prejudice? To obey your captains, your liege lord, and your king? To fight bravely against the Darkness and do such other tasks as are needful? However hard, or humble, or dangerous they may be?"
-[X] "I, -Insert name-, Swear by my name and power to honor my king, by my magic i will guard the realm against those that would destroy it, by my honor I would protect the innocent and judge the guilty, with my strength I will pursue my foes and chase my goal, by my wisdom I will heed the orders of those above me, by this oath I am now and until I am released from it a Knight of the Spellguard, and my life is the realm's."
-[X] "Rise Ser Waymar Royce."

Cleaned up some stuff. Made some changes. Feels good to me.

Edit: More changes to come
 
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