A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

[Goldfish]

Of*

[X] Azel

I wanna steal it.

Edit:
Though @Goldfish if you were less abrasive at first I might vote to send him to the Wall straight up, gets the well meaning faithful focused in the Lands of Always Winter leaving behind all the true dickheads for us to use as various fuels, political, magical, literal.

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Less abrasive? This chode is still lucky we didn't burn him to ash.

He knew full well what kind of fanatics he was bringing to this encounter, and wouldn't have lifted one damned finger to stop them from setting the tree alight, if such a thing was possible.

Added this:
-[] To sum it up, he will be bound by the laws of our land and expected to not act against the kings peace. To do so openly would have repercussions, most likely exile, but you will not shield him from the law, should he knowingly break it.

I don't care about Burny worship, as long as they do so in an acceptable fashion. We will soon have Burny worshipers in our land anyway, by virtue of conquering their homes. It's better to establish a working relationship now then alter, when we have to deal with fanatics.

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Let them come the hard way. Let them smuggle in a priest, and let them try to subvert our people. Let them try that shit with a bunch of former slaves and expatriate Westerosi. That's fine. We can find those people easily enough, and make great examples of them. Inviting one of them to come to SD gives them a veneer of respectability and authority which they do not deserve and which they will turn to their advantage. You want a chance to use the priest, to turn him to our cause, or to play some other game. Screw inviting that kind of viper into our nest. It's an awful tactic which will forever leave us guessing what he's getting up to in SD when we're not around. We'll have to devote PC time to keeping tabs on him, and we'll have to worry about him working with our enemies while we're distracted by more important stuff.

 

[egoo]

[X] Abstain
What to do when either choice is shit?
Why, salt go to sleep, of course!

 

[065tdsa]

Let them come the hard way. Let them smuggle in a priest, and let them try to subvert our people. Let them try that shit with a bunch of former slaves and expatriate Westerosi. That's fine. We can find those people easily enough, and make great examples of them. Inviting one of them to come to SD gives them a veneer of respectability and authority which they do not deserve and which they will turn to their advantage. You want a chance to use the priest, to turn him to our cause, or to play some other game. Screw inviting that kind of viper into our nest. It's an awful tactic which will forever leave us guessing what he's getting up to in SD when we're not around. We'll have to devote PC time to keeping tabs on him, and we'll have to worry about him working with our enemies while we're distracted by more important stuff.

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The last thing we need is a priest of R'hllor where we can't counter them. The church of the Seven is frankly pathetic and the Old Gods have no church at all so if you send him to Westeros he'll have a cult in no time. So it's either SD or Dorne and I think he'll be a fair bit suspicious in Dorne, given the last pair of priests sent there were turned.

 

[Sqweaktoy]

[X] Azel

Best to get a handle on integrating Burny-aligned assholes as peacefully as possible now with one, than with however many of the bastards are in Tyrosh.

It'll make a good test case, even if he ends up getting shanked in like a week. I fully do not expect his proselytizing to get much traction in SD of all places

 

[Azel]

Let them come the hard way. Let them smuggle in a priest, and let them try to subvert our people. Let them try that shit with a bunch of former slaves and expatriate Westerosi. That's fine. We can find those people easily enough, and make great examples of them. Inviting one of them to come to SD gives them a veneer of respectability and authority which they do not deserve and which they will turn to their advantage. You want a chance to use the priest, to turn him to our cause, or to play some other game. Screw inviting that kind of viper into our nest. It's an awful tactic which will forever leave us guessing what he's getting up to in SD when we're not around. We'll have to devote PC time to keeping tabs on him, and we'll have to worry about him working with our enemies while we're distracted by more important stuff.

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You are aware that Burny has a sizable following in Tyrosh and that we will soon have plenty of his worshippers in SD, once the migration kicks in, right? We probably already have quite a few Burny believers at home, what with his faith being widespread among slaves and SD having a lot of former slaves in the population.

This is a pretty pointless hill to die on and I see very few logical arguments against taking him and a very, very large hate-boner.
You whole text boils down to hating the Reds and wanting to kill them all. Which is untenable.

 

[Duesal]

@Goldfish, I hate it as much as you, but this isn't really something we can stop. Burny worshippers are already in SD. There's no way they're not. Same with Seven worshippers. And we're getting more Burny worshippers with every Free City. I'm not worried about him converting anyone, though. We have a Living God, the Old Gods via trees, and the Merling King as direct competition for him. I see more value in us corrupting him quickly and efficiently. Maybe he'll end up converting to Yss or the Merling King. Maybe he becomes an Ur-Priest. Either way, we win. Ideally we could keep them all out of SD, but we can't. Our borders were never secure. Saan literally took a tour of our capital before officially joining us.

 

[Mormont]

[X] Azel

 

[Duesal]

@Azel, can you please add Lya and Viserys working together to Fabricate away any tunnels leading into the Flesh Forge, and instructing the Leshys to have fun with anyone who comes down here who isn't us?

 

[Goldfish]

You are aware that Burny has a sizable following in Tyrosh and that we will soon have plenty of his worshippers in SD, once the migration kicks in, right? We probably already have quite a few Burny believers at home, what with his faith being widespread among slaves and SD having a lot of former slaves in the population.

This is a pretty pointless hill to die on and I see very few logical arguments against taking him and a very, very large hate-boner.
You whole text boils down to hating the Reds and wanting to kill them all. Which is untenable.

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I don't care about his worshipers being in SD. My concern is legitimizing that faith by officially inviting a Red Priest to the island. That is a whole other can of beans, and one that will cause us constant trouble, acting as a time sink at best and a point of vulnerability at worst. We are guaranteed to have followers of the Seven on the island as well. That doesn't mean we're going to invite a gaggle of septas and septons to build a temple and minister to their flock.

In the interest of turning some of ya'll away from Azel's plot, here's a revised version of my plan that is less abrasive (good point, @Deliste, as much as I dislike it).

[X] Refuse
-[X] "Although we are allies against the Great Enemy, R'hllor is no friend of ours. He claims that all men are his slaves, while we firmly espouse the belief that no man should be a slave, even to a god. This is an unbridgeable ideological divide which simply cannot be overcome. The simple truth of the matter is that your priest would be not be welcome in Sorcerer's Deep, nor would he be trusted."
-[X] Suggest a destination (The Wall)
--[X] The Wall serves as the first and greatest bulwark against the encroachment of the spawn of the Great Other, R'hllor's enemy and our own, yet those expected to man that great magical edifice are few and their task grim. The ministrations of the Red Priests might make all the difference when the Enemy stirs. Proselytizing will do your priests little good in the North of Westeros, but they should take comfort in the fact that there are few places on Planetos where they could make a greater impact, for the time of the Great Other's return approaches.
---[X] Non-Bull Shit Explanation: Let Bloodraven handle them as he sees fit. Hopefully they'll be dead or turned to better purposes within a year.

 

[Tomcost]

So, did anyone thought about unleashing Glyra on this priest guy while in SD?

I wonder how quickly we can drive him to political suicide.

 

[Prince Kyros]

[X] Azel

 

[Karmic Acumen]

[X] Conditionally Accept
-[X] You have many strange people living in your lands, so he should keep an open mind.
-[X] There are other gods being worshiped in our lands. The great serpent Yss and the Merlin King.
-[X] A sizable part of your population is westerosi, who reject slavery on principle, braavosi, who reject slavery with vigor, or former slaves, who reject slavery with sharp objects. He should probably refrain from "all men are R'hllors slaves" or similar sermons.
-[X] To sum it up, he will be bound by the laws of our land and expected to not act against the kings peace. To do so openly would have repercussions, most likely exile, but you will not shield him from the law, should he knowingly break it.
-[X] If he can live with those things, he is welcome, though you can't guarantee for his safety, should he show similar behavior as the group that came to the Godswood of Lys today.
-[X] If any of those things are too objectionable for him, the Nights Watch can always use aid against the great enemy and they too can teach him about the Old Gods.

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Maybe add mention that if they cause strife or their manner and beliefs place them in danger, maybe this should be on a provisional period of a month or two before reassessing their willingness to stay on permanently. Or something like that. I know most of that is implied, but rules lawyering has always been a thing in this quest, and the priest has been doing lots of it just now too.

 

[Azel]

@Goldfish, you are effectively declaring war on the Reds. What exactly is your plan when we take Free Cities? Kill every last Burny priest?

Your control obsession is showing and you are setting up a huge landmine just waiting to blow up in our faces.

 

[tarrangar]

Better not give him ideas.
I have no issue if they run around through Westeros in general, but we don't want to give the Nightwatch alternatives to our generocity, do we?

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Why not, the Night Watch is sworn to not get involved in the affairs of the South, we give them aid not because we expect things in return, but because we want them to be strong, so they can defend against the Others better, so it wouldn't be a big problem if they got R'hllorites, so long as they remember their oaths.

[X] Azel

 

[Azel]

Maybe add mention that if they cause strife or their manner and beliefs place them in danger, maybe this should be on a provisional period of a month or two before reassessing their willingness to stay on permanently. Or something like that. I know most of that is implied, but rules lawyering has always been a thing in this quest, and the priest has been doing lots of it just now too.

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That's what Kings Peace boils down to. If he starts preaching against our other gods, especially with this demon shite, he will have an accident.

 

[Goldfish]

@Goldfish, you are effectively declaring war on the Reds. What exactly is your plan when we take Free Cities? Kill every last Burny priest?

Your control obsession is showing and you are setting up a huge landmine just waiting to blow up in our faces.

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How does my plan declare war on the Red Priests? You are basically inviting them into the heart of our territory, where we keep our important people and all of our stuff.

The landmine waiting to blow up in our faces is the priest you want to bring to SD.

If anything, they've already declared war on us. The head priest whose name I can never remember, is not our friend, and would happily murdered us with his band of fanatics if he thought he could actually do it. He only interceded with them once their attacks proved futile. What if we were merely mortal? Would he have called them off and healed our wounds? Hell no.

The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend, especially when they're fanatic worshipers of a tyrannical god who wishes to see all human life yoked as his slaves.

 

[Duesal]

@Azel, can you add that Lya and Viserys Fabricate the tunnels closed?

 

[Azel]

@Goldfish, you are openly denying any chance of the Reds existing within our realm. With us conquering the Reds cities, that means pogroms against them. You are provoking them to violently oppose us whenever possible.

The Reds are not going anywhere. We have to deal with them and our best bet is to use the same tactics as against the Seven. Encourage a new creed forming, which we can control or at least tolerate, and then use them to cause a schism and the subsequent subsumation of the Reds under our terms.

 

[Goldfish]

@Goldfish, you are openly denying any chance of the Reds existing within our realm. With us conquering the Reds cities, that means pogroms against them. You are provoking them to violently oppose us whenever possible.

The Reds are not going anywhere. We have to deal with them and our best bet is to use the same tactics as against the Seven. Encourage a new creed forming, which we can control or at least tolerate, and then use them to cause a schism and the subsequent subsumation of the Reds under our terms.

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They can stay in the cities we conquer so long as they obey our laws. That's not the same thing as letting them officially set up shop in SD.

I get where you are coming from, and what you're trying to accomplish, but I really don't think it's coming from an IC Viserys perspective.

 

[Azel]

They can stay in the cities we conquer so long as they obey our laws. That's not the same thing as letting them officially set up shop in SD.

I get where you are coming from, and what you're trying to accomplish, but I really don't think it's coming from an IC Viserys perspective.

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That's not what you are saying and that is not what you are going to achieve by refusal.

This is why I called my vote conditional acceptance. They can be in our realm as long as they obey. If that proves untenable, we will adapt to the circumstances, but slamming the door into his face when he is trying to reach out to us is supremely counterproductive.

The priest isn't a total write-off. He can be talked with. He can be manipulated. If things go well, he would make a fine Quiesling and would be supremely useful to remove the actual fanatics.

 

[Goldfish]

That's not what you are saying and that is not what you are going to achieve by refusal.

This is why I called my vote conditional acceptance. They can be in our realm as long as they obey. If that proves untenable, we will adapt to the circumstances, but slamming the door into his face when he is trying to reach out to us is supremely counterproductive.

The priest isn't a total write-off. He can be talked with. He can be manipulated. If things go well, he would make a fine Quiesling and would be supremely useful to remove the actual fanatics.

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Of course he's going to accept those restrictions. Why wouldn't he? He loses nothing in the attempt. He's a devoted priest of R'hllor if he's trusted to remain faithful after being sent to the heart of our realm. Even losing his life wouldn't be a great deterrent to such a man.

And once he gets comfortable and established in SD, he'll begin to work against the restrictions. Expecting them to act in good faith would be naive, if I thought you actually believed that to be how this will play out.

 

[Fehu]

So, did anyone thought about unleashing Glyra on this priest guy while in SD?

I wonder how quickly we can drive him to political suicide.

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So this should be what we put Glyra on until the priest is broken. Totally worth it if it gets us a cleric.

[X] Azel

Edit: We can give Yss empowerment to Glyra by the way! Why didnt we think about that damn.

 

[Tomcost]

They can stay in the cities we conquer so long as they obey our laws. That's not the same thing as letting them officially set up shop in SD.

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They are setting up shop under our city. Under our laws. Under our intelligence network. Under Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru Drekelis and Steal yo' Magic Glyra's watch.

Don't be paranoid. It is easier to manipulate them if they come willingly.

 

[Duesal]

I'm mainly hoping he'll slip up so we can sacrifice him.

 

[065tdsa]

Of course he's going to accept those restrictions. Why wouldn't he? He loses nothing in the attempt. He's a devoted priest of R'hllor if he's trusted to remain faithful after being sent to the heart of our realm. Even losing his life wouldn't be a great deterrent to such a man.

And once he gets comfortable and established in SD, he'll begin to work against the restrictions. Expecting them to act in good faith would be naive, if I thought you actually believed that to be how this will play out.

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Nobody expects good faith. We just realize there's going to be R'hllorites all over the place regardless of what we do so we might as well know where they are and let them think we don't realize they are a threat.