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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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What do we tell our mother, if she, recognizing the invalidity of her worldview, asks: "Why did you bring me back?"
 
If an old man in the twilight of his life (as he knows it) can adapt, I think Rhaella can manage to do so as well.
 
Hrm, I think I've figured out Viserys's main vice. He's eschewed a lot of the common ones for nobility, in part helped by his time in Braavos, and also by dint of wanting to not be Bobby B., but he doesn't have a lot of traditional leverage points to use against him. He's prideful, but that's about it and he can (even if he really doesn't want to) lower himself if it's for his own gain (like disguising himself to appear as a begggar, or pretend his enemy has tricked him, etc.).

His real vice is from the standpoint of him being a king. He wants peers. He wants to treat his companions as peers. A king isn't traditionally supposed to have peers, and you could argue that a lot of the problems in Aerys's reign really started because Tywin and Aerys had a relationship resembling peers (due to growing up together).

I think it's sidestepped as a huge issue because we're both charismatic and competent behind that charisma, but it's not normal court politics.
 
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In other news, in looking through the domains list I have lying around, I rediscovered this old beauty of a spell.

Unbinding

In the right situation, it's kinda terrifying. Also something I think Dany might love to learn.
 
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Snowfire said:
In other news, in looking through the domains list I have lying around, I rediscovered this old beauty of a spell.

Unbinding

In the right situation, it's kinda terrifying. Also something I think Dany might love to learn.
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Charm spells of all kinds.
I wish they had more examples here.

Would be fun to let a mindcontrol-focussed mage get killed by his minions. Unfortunatly Illithids are working with slaves indoctrinated for generations when they can, so no big hit there.
 
Tally inserted.
Adhoc vote count started by Crake on Jan 26, 2018 at 8:53 AM, finished with 144820 posts and 16 votes.
  • [X] Feathers in the Wind
    -[X] "Thank you, mother, but I'm afraid it's more complicated than that. It's fortunate that you talked of Dorne, however. I've told you of the aid I've given them, I think, but I treated with Prince Doran on the matter of the agreement made in the name of our house eight years ago." Breath. "I offered Dorne something other than my hand, and they accepted. Tyene's words were very correct in calling your return a hope for the future, given what I promised. And it is a promise I have no intentions of breaking." Address dynastic alliance concerns first. This might confuse her a little, but it's important to get this in ahead of anything else. Securing our Southern flank, as it were.
    -[X] "I've spoken of how the world has changed, of how magic has caused the lines of power to warp and shift given the power that mages can wield. Yet many still refuse to see that change, and so any sufficiently powerful ally would consider us a junior party in a dynastic alliance at best. At worst, their lack of understanding for the powers I and my companions wield could be a liability, preventing us from applying our full strength. I rule a Kingdom now, and that has been recognised, but it is a small one. And many can claim the right to the Iron Throne when they do not hold it." Logic on the matter of dynastic alliances, pointing out the potential weaknesses of one given our status within the feudal game. Also the beginning of explaining that it's starting to become hopelessly obsolete.
    -[X] "And yet, when our power is understood by those who currently dismiss or try to avoid it, our backing of a single house in Westeros could send the entire realm into turmoil. With the Others stirring, that could prove a fatal development." More of the above.
    -[X] "The Targaryens weren't always one of the Forty. They won their way into the Houses of Valyria through power, the same power as runs in my veins and that is mirrored by my companions. The Freehold prized magic above all else, both power in the Art and understanding of it. Sorcerer's Deep and my other holdings are its closest analogue, and it has been magic that has tended to my people, and held our walls against those who would seek to tear them asunder. Lya's knowledge of the forgotten arts goes beyond any of those in my company. In the days of Valyria, I have little doubt that if she wished to she would have founded her own dynasty." Further logic mixed with ancestral history, trying to solidify the place of Mage as equivalent to Noble without bringing it too close to Maester due to how they aren't marriage prospects at all.
    -[X] "To marry one without such power would be to sentence them to the life of a caged bird, and no matter the gilding of that cage, it would still be a prison." Emotion mixed with logic, moving into the more emotional side of the argument to finish it. Rhaella lived that prison, after all. Our unwillingness to subject someone to it is likely to win some points somewhere.
    -[X] "We have gone through fire and hell together, and if either of us were to fall, we have the knowledge and means to pursue the other's restoration. Her aid has saved Dany and I more often that I would care to count, and without her I doubt I would be standing here with you. And...I love her, mother, and she loves me. For all she has given, I could not ask her to be a mistress." The final words, emotional resolution following a chain of logic and reassurance.
    [X] Plan Politics
    -[X] The political landscape has vastly changed. Westeros alone is not everything we have to consider and the vast personal powers of mages make them a force in their own right.
    -[X] A marriage alliance cuts both ways and tying us to a LP in that fashion would be a considerable investment.
    -[X] Westeros is disunited since the Rebellion. Strong royal favor to a single house would significantly worsen that issue.
    -[X] The changes to the world mean that reforms are necessary to the way countries are governed. The Rebellion has shown how brittle a system without strong central authority can become and it needs institutions, not Lord, to address this.
    -[X] Due to our awakening blood and personal might, we will probably live for centuries. Dynastic considerations have changed vastly and a wife who we will easily outlive is untenable.
    [X] "You misread the situation entirely, Mother. Lya will not be my mistress. I care for her too much to ever demean her so. I intend to make her my wife, if she will have me."
    -[X] "Do you think the Targaryen family was always prominent within the Freehold, that we have been the equivalent of nobility since our ancestors were little more than shepherds? Through arcane means, I have the memories of the first Targaryen to ascend to the heights of power in Old Valyria. His family? Craftsmen of little note."
    -[X] The Forty Families became such not through force of arms or noble breeding, but through the power and skill of their founding members, reinforced by their heirs in each following generation. By that measure, one such as Lya would have founded her own dynasty, and more likely than not shaken the foundations of the world. You don't make a woman like that into a mistress. You crown her as queen."
    [X] "I understand your confusion, Mother, and forgive your presumption. Lya will not be my mistress. I care for her too much to ever demean her so. I intend to make her my wife, if she will have me."
    -[X] "Before you object, let me speak." Gently, but firmly. This is a worldview that needs...readjustment.
    -[X] "The world has changed a great deal from what you once knew, Mother. For one such as I, who possesses the power to burn armies and sunder entire fleets with no more than word and gesture, their is little value in a political marriage. Sorcerous power buys allies just as surely, and without half the hassle or intrigue."
    -[X] "The return of magic has made the world small. You saw it yourself, how easily I journeyed thousands of miles in an instant, and returned just as quickly. Westeros is but a single continent of a single world, Mother. Why bind myself to a noble daughter from one small province of a small world? I would much prefer sharing all the worlds within my reach with an equal, who can appreciate the splendor of the Planes just as much as I."
    -[X] "There is also the matter of my draconic nature. I am on the cusp of a great transformation, one born of our Valyrian ancestry and the magic flowing through my veins, which will prolong my life for centuries, if not millennia, barring accident or injury. Lya is fully capable of making similar arrangements for herself. Would you rather I spend a few decades with a mortal woman, who will soon enough return to the dust of the earth, or one who can stand by my side as I build an empire that would make the Lords of the Freehold weep tears of bitter envy?"
    [X] "Consider, too, the terrible enemies I have made in the short time since magic awakened. From us you have learned of but the barest fraction of what truly lurks in the darkness, Mother. Beings unlike any you could ever imagine already have designs on my life, and the lives of my friends. Such is the price for protecting the world from their ceaseless predation. I do not need a helpless wife to serve as a target of opportunity for any creature that bears a grudge against me. A powerful wife loyal to me through bonds of love and mutual respect, who can defend our future children just as surely as I, will be of far greater worth than any noble's daughter bound by duty or greed."
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I'm really bad at getting across sarcasm lately, huh? Happened twice with @Snowfire.

In all seriousness, unless I'm going on some tirade that lasts multiple paragraphs, I am never usually in serious mode. Serious mode is reserved for planning (when I don't think others will lead the vote where it should go) and giving some insight into characters, politics, the setting or personal projects.
 
MTB said:
That's ultimately selfish, because you'd do it to make yourself feel better.
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It's the kind of selfishness a mother wouldn't begrudge her child, especially not Rhaella who lives for her children.

Lyanna, on the other hand, I'm not sure about. Selfishness kind of defines that girl, and her sanity is very much in question with the whole ghost thing.
 
MTB said:
That's ultimately selfish, because you'd do it to make yourself feel better.
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"Because of my characterisation"? :p

@Duesal

Jon Snow (coached by Visery/Dany/Tyene/Garin...): "You would better be able to defend me from things that are not best handled by ghost-violence if you were alive again."
Also, the dead tend to want to live; so it should be an easy sell, compared to the average ghost annoyance.
 
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Lyanna is atypical in terms of undead though. Viserys hammered it home over and over again that his Knowledge checks were screaming at him that whatever Lyanna Stark currently was, typical vengeful spirit, she was not.

I imagine basing any strategy off of her behaving like your usual run-of-the-mill Always Evil undead is bound for failure.
 
BeepSmile said:
Also, the dead tend to want to live; so it should be an easy sell, compared to the average ghost annoyance.
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I was going to write 'we don't know that because she doesn't remember', but then I remembered that the spell doesn't work if the soul is not willing to return, so - you are right (correct).
 
Aemon would probably have high enough INT for wizardry too...

Viserys should be able to visit Castle Black throughout a month and teach when Aemons other duties allows.
 
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