Which is why no rule has ever broke the power of a hereditary noble class
right?
I'm unsure of what you're trying to say, here. Obviously, modern China is not a feudal society anymore, so that had to change at some point. Some rulers have, through strength of arms or other means, been able to attain absolute control and to restructure society; other societies have seen gradual shifts. What I am saying is that this takes
work, and requires something more than dripping disdain for the previous system in order to create a stable system capable of facing the Others in that short amount of time.
Azel said:
You seem to be assuming that we want to openly declare nobles as irrelevant, but that is, aside from he occasional rhetorical flourish, not the case. The plan is to undermine the position of the nobility and to slowly replace them with more easily controlled institutions.
That is fair. I mainly saw that in the treatment of Rhaella, and the (as I saw it) dismissive attitude towards what was a sophisticated and enduring political system. Moreover, the timeframe I keep harping on matters: it seems to me as if the most obvious reason to make so much hay (in-game or out of game) of the impending destruction of feudalism would be the desire to have it happen soon.
Azel said:
Furthermore, you argue that the nobility would have the military might to crush us at their leisure, which will not be the case.
Not exactly. I'm arguing the need for enthusiastic support across the broad populace, rather than a fractious and vengeful ruling class with nothing to lose released on the heartland of Westeros. Now the slow path you mention is less overtly likely to cause such massive discontent. My worry is the timeframe.
Azel said:
The entire point of what we are building is to establish a centralized authority that doesn't need a nobility and amassing power directly under Viserys.
And that is a good thing, on balance. It is also a long-term project, in eras where "long-term" Imperial-scale reforms might take decades or even generations. All while gearing up for an omnicidal war. (For which, in fairness, a finished restructuring would be a very
good thing to have effected.)
Azel said:
Feudal systems are good to administrate disconnected realms, which we don't have, by diluting and distributing power across many local lords, which we don't want.
It's a nice tool to solve that particular problem, except that we don't have that problem.
That's a good point. However, the fact that a system is
suboptimal does not mean that a massive restructuring of it (in doing so ousting its administrative class) into a
more optimal system would lead to short-term benefits.
Artemis1992 said:
1. A power base is not meaningless, but means far less than it ever did before. People like Viserys, Relath or Yrael can conquer a domain and keep it until someone stronger comes to take it. The power gained from holding this domain is minimal compared to the personal power of the conquerer. Therefore the ability of any person in power to keep that power, is significantly lower relativly to the pre-magic time, because the estabished power base has far less value in perpetuating your ability to keep it secure.
Already addressed that: you can incorporate them into the existing powerbase, thereby granting them
even more power. Viserys, after all, trades significantly on his royal blood.
Artemis1992 said:
2. She is wrong. Armies and ships and land are objectivly less valuable than Lya, who can crush armies and fleets and can make small amounts of land far more productive than a hundredfold amount of land that is worked without magitech-industry.
Lya is the better option, but that was not the argument. The argument is that a remaining allegiance to Lya (perhaps as a concubine)
and a political would be more beneficial. The fact that it wouldn't be possible is a different matter; the dynastic argument is still valid.
Artemis1992 said:
3. That's where the "Am Dragon, obey" part comes in. Obviously we'll try to make it a less noticable change since we don't want to kill half the country, but the change will still happen. And in no case will nobles randos be able to stop us.
They can make it prohibitively expensive, which is the reason for why the enthusiastic application of naked force so often makes little sense.
